I'm Sick And Tired
 

I'm sick and tired of graded cards, and all the BS surrounding them. I could not give a flying f$&k.

I'm sick and tired of cards that have been rubbed on every corner on concrete, folded and creased, and held by clothespins in bicycle spokes being worth hundreds if not thousands of dollars, no matter who the card is. Ridiculous. And even more ridiculous is that someone would actually pay.

I'm sick and tired of "listening to offers". I've got an offer for you!

In short, when it comes to this so-called hobby, which is in reality nothing more than an investment brokerage and good old boy club of like-minded investors, I am sick and tired of being sick and tired.

Enjoy. You can have it.

soooooooo...c ya on the flip side????

I will set the over/under on James' next post at 4 hours.

James, are you still with us? Walk back from the ledge, my friend.

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Generalizations are dangerous in all cases

Just do it your way. It is indeed nothing more than an investment brokerage and good old boy club of like-minded investors, but that's for other people and a small part of the hobby. They can't affect your enjoyment of your collection. Just do it your way, nobody else dictates what you do or how you enjoy it.

Relax, Jimmy. It's just a hobby.

Well, its only just a hobby unless you make your living from cards, use them as investment vehicles, or are addicted.

Oxford Languages states that a hobby is "an activity done regularly in one's leisure time for pleasure."

Your rant doesn't sound like your having leisure or enjoyment. I recommend taking a step back, and a deep breath.

I hear you! I hear you!

Before grading eBay was the wild Wild West. Today it’s just wild. One man’s NM was another man’s good. Not saying graded cards brought stability but 90% of the time if you purchase a graded card from a photo you will get what you paid for. As far as well loved cards, who doesn’t love a card that seen history. Too bad you feel that way but you really didn’t have to announce you were leaving.

There are a bunch of fun-ass vintage cards in the current Brockelman Auction that would not be considered part of a portfolio, unless that is the type of folder you use to physically store the cards. How do I know? I consigned some of the fun-assery up for grabs.

Enjoy your version of the hobby. Brush off what bugs you like you would dandruff on the shoulders, and carry onward with a smile on your face.

Brian

Is that not, in and of itself, a generalization?

:cool::rolleyes::D

I was feeling the same way about collecting cards (I prefer collecting flannels.) I gave a lot of thought to which set of my childhood might be fun to work on (the 1960s.)

My main problems were:

1. Expensive cards in the set, that I'd eventually need to pony up for if I wanted to complete the set. The Mantle for starters, then the rookies.

2. I couldn't see spending a lot for floating head rookies like Uecker (1962 T high number,) Rose (1963,) or half card rookies like Morgan (1965,) Carew and Seaver (1967,) Bench and Ryan (1968) and so on.

3. I would want cards that looked nice, but there's the trimming/doctoring issue.

All of these things just made the whole idea not fun, like the OP says.

Then I came up with a solution - the 1962 Post Cereal set. I remember, vaguely, getting panels of cards on the back of those cereal boxes and cutting them out. Free baseball cards! I have good memories of those days.

1. I've recently picked up 2 decent Mantles for $70 and $46. Easily the cheapest 1960s major set Mantles, and it's an attractive card too.

2. With 200 cards in the set, I don't think there are any rookies.

3. Trimming is no issue since they were supposed to be hand cut. And if you see the black borders of the cards, you know they haven't been "over-trimmed."

I ordered the definitive book on 1962 Post baseball from Dan Mabey, and plan to make a study of the set. Meanwhile, after about 2 weeks of collecting these, I've gotten past the halfway point for about $500. So, the set should be easy to complete for less than the cost of a mid-grade floating head '63 Rose.

It's a lot of fun to not be constricted by grading/trimming issues, high prices, chasing rookie cards, etc. There are some minor challenges with a handful of short prints, but they are all available and can be had in the $50 range or much less. Mabey's book tells which cards were on which cereal boxes, and that's fun to know.

So, not counting the occasional T202 purchase, I'm back into card collecting again, and having a lot of fun with it.

Exactly my point ;)

Nice tantrum. Find something new in your life. Get out side more. Stop watching the news.

[QUOTE=jingram058;2316758]
I'm sick and tired of "listening to offers". I've got an offer for you!
/QUOTE]

🤣

I'm not all that into the "investment" stuff either (especially the pumpers who can't see why some wouldn't be thrilled about a 12 million dollar Mantle) but, as members have posted in the past, it seems like there is some "investment" angle that collectors have to reckon with.

Technically, "generalizations are dangerous in all cases" is an absolute statement, not a generalization.

James,

There are plenty of way to collect, outside of what you mentioned. You can still do it raw and on a budget.

But to your point, the hobby is tied up with everything you mentioned. I have accepted it. It is what it is.

Generally speaking, I avoid generalizations. Is this actually logical or is it a Yogi-ism type statement?

Yes

graded
 

Yea !
Im sick and tired of it too !!

You know what I enjoy on Net54? Cincinnati Reds collectors. I have made small relationships with a few fans, and I consider them more meaningful than those on other social media sites. I live in WA State, and there are few I've met. But we all enjoy each other on this site.

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To play the straight man in the joke here...

A statement that is a claim to fact is true or false. To be true, it must be true in all instances it declares. A generalization usually differs from an absolute statement in that the speaker knows it is not actually true and so removes the "all". "All police cars have sirens" is an absolute statement to fact (and a false one), "police cars have sirens" is its generalized form that removes the direct declarative, because it isn't always true and thus, technically, is false, but would be true in most solitary cases and thus it is implied to be "all" while leaving the speaker the wiggle room to not have to account for those that do not.

"I don't use generalizations" would be a claim to fact.

"I avoid generalizations" is a statement that essentially means nothing from an Aristotelian perspective, as a generalization. "Avoid" signifies an opinion that the speaker does not like them and prefers a choice, rather than a real claim to fact, and it's meaning directly leaves room to still use them sometimes. "I avoid generalizations" is a carefully phrased expression of a generalization that has shifted from a formulation that is a claim of fact to an opinion that can be neither right nor wrong.

As it is a generalization in its structure already, the "generally speaking" prefix serves no purpose beyond the comedic, and thus creates a yogi-ism, a line defined by its absurdity and not meant to be taken seriously.

You are all welcome for the most boring post of the day.

Excellent analysis.

What of course makes the Yogi isms so great is that although they make no sense logically they do make some sense. Take the immortal, nobody goes there any more, it's too crowded.

My favorite nonsensical Yogiism that kind of makes sense somehow is the classic “if you come to a fork in the road, take it”. It’s a silly absurdity, or a pithy reminder that indecision is the worst of choices and choosing wrong is better than not to choose; instead of standing at the fork forever, just take a path.

I've been watching grown men rip off children in this hobby since the early 1980s and I'm sure it was going on before then.

I have no illusion that any card company has ever cared a lot about the hobbyists vs the hobbyists money. There are too many examples to list. There are more examples than 1989 Upper Deck Griffey Jr cards that exist that weren't pulled from packs.

This hobby is sketchy as hell. It's also full of great people. I accept it at face value. Stick around long enough you'll get all kinds of screwed over and find all kinds of really solid people.

That is my second favorite, also very brilliant especially in light of the Frost poem.

I got back into the hobby in 2012 and the hobby has become pretty insufferable since the pandemic started and more and more money flowed in. My collection has been pretty much dormant for the past 3-4 years.

Pointless
 

Logic is always illogical. True of False

Hyperbole is not infinite. If hyperbole is not true, then why not?

Is a Quotient Intelligent? What's your QI?

Is the underarm sweat stain on your shirt the shape of Somalia? Check it out.

I practice moderation with a fervor...

That’s probably why I like it. Frost is a wonderful example of the artistic truth, the things that can not fit into a strict logic problem and do not check out as true, but still instruct us on understanding the world and living life. I read only nonfiction until one of my teachers gave me Frost’s Complete Poems and sold me on the notion that there could be an understanding of truth in the inherent untruth of fiction.

Yes, yes it is a very sketchy hobby. The card companies have no reason to care and I can guarantee the low wage employees at that card company really don't care. They also hated it when Score gave them cards for a Christmas bonus/present.

Will do! :)

Not his best known, but perhaps my personal favorite.
https://www.thepoetryhour.com/poems/desert-places

Those that don't understand the OPs frustration might consider the following:

Many "collectors" started in this "hobby" decades ago when it was actually fun to find some nice cardboard at a reasonable price and to continue to add to a "collection". I think in most cases, these older "collectors" never considered this "hobby" as an investment or an inflationary hedge, they collected for the love of collecting.

Enter "grading". Misrepresentation, coin doctors and poor subjectivity of coins screwed up that "hobby".

Now the grading of cardboard has brought in an element of "gotta have the best in the world". Population reports and investors start to get into the "hobby" and turn it upside down by leading it into an era where there's a focus on $$$/value rather than just collecting cardboard.

Now go back to that collector who had a passion to continually add to a true collection of cardboard because it was a fun, affordable past time. Now it's a true shit show of card manipulators, thieves and greed. That last statement doesn't mean that EVERYONE is like that, quite to the contrary, especially most people on this board. It's just unfortunate for "collectors" that liked to collect for the fund of "collecting".

Older "collectors" on limited budgets may find it very challenging to continue to add to their collections because it's not economically possible or the collector has just had enough and is saying "no mas, I give up".

I continue to collect because it's something that's been part of my life for a very long time. Is it enjoyable? I think it still is, but if you used to collect a long time ago, then you find hobby dollars don't go near as far as they used to.

With the increase in "value" for cardboard, there's a larger increase in the amount of fraud and butt heads that want to "influence" collectors and end up making it worse for the pure collector.

Yes, this is just a hobby, but for some it's been a part of their life for a LONG time and now it's just not fun anymore for many of those old time "collectors".

Back in MY day, people were content being sick OR tired. Now people want it all... :p;)

Great post!

637. Opinionomics
The determination of a card’s value based not on inherent market factors such as the give and take of supply and demand, or the specific attributes of the individual card, but solely and blindly on the number assigned to it by a Third Party Grader.

657. Fogeyism
Any newly created, semi-clever saying that attempts to mirror the fantastic old-time whimsical musings of Yogi Berra.

See also: Yogi Grinandbearit - the obligatory woeful reaction to one of these new witticisms.

777. Bilottoral
The duality of being a true collector who’s in it for the enjoyment, but also someone who is always striving to make sure his collection continually grows more and more valuable.

+1

I stepped out on my back porch this afternoon and read a chapter in a book on Charles Bender. Beautiful weather...left Dogs...especially the loud one...inside.

Drank some ice-cold water and didn't touch my phone once.

Anytime someone rues the state of the hobby and the greed of the companies, just remember that one of the hobby's most iconic cards (Goudey Lajoie) is only that way because Goudey was being dishonest with the public.

-
I love this hobby/forum, I haven't been around long compared to others here but I've met the most knowledgeable, generous, genuine people in this little corner of the hobby, willing to help network and build each others collections.

Yes, I'm exhausted/frustrated that the cards I want are increasing in price faster than I can save but I'm also content with what I have built so far and am able to still pick up cards I want in my collection.

I also won't deal with sketchy people in the hobby, AH's, sellers, etc. too many good people to surround myself with to even give those types my time.

But really, its the friendships that are the most meaningful in this hobby, all that other stuff is just silly noise.

Some legit gripes for sure but if you really can't see why other collectors would want a really beat up old baseball card, then maybe you aren't in the right place and would be better off leaving.

I wish you happiness, good health, and good luck. ✌️

+1. "Everything changes, everything passes, just do what you think you should do..."--Bob Dylan, To Ramona

Collect what you like, why would anyone care what others collect or if they only buy to invest or if they can only afford beat up cards? Is it really worth getting worked up over?

so are you leaving the hobby...?

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...well_bye_2.jpg

I like all of it, from collecting a beautiful worthless card to using them as part of my retirement planning. If it makes you nuts, I'd say just walk away quietly and see how it sits before you extend the middle finger to the world, but a parting screed is fine too. You do you, Boo.

Sure it's the same way with any hobby. There are guys who labor in their garage to overhaul a 67 Camaro, sink 1000s of hours into taking parts off and repairing things, have a deep love and respect fo the car, know everything there is to know about it . . . .and then there are rich guys who go out any buy 6 of them and don't have a clue how to care for them. I guess just do your own thing, as they said in the 1960s.

The hobby would be really frickin' boring if everyone had the same priorities, interests and goals.

James is still with us. He's at the Watercooler right now.

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This one of the threads that sometimes you just gotta say, "WTF"

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Cards can be fun. Don't let it get to you.

One of the positives of TPG'ers is the case itself, preventing potential catastrophes of all sorts to our special angels. I will refrain from telling about when I sat of a nice E90-1 Tris Speaker which I had stupidly left on the sofa.

The other point is the grade received has become the price point for buying and selling cards via the SMR and VCP etc. Before it was the 2 parties arguing about the price and the grade, sometimes requiring arbitration.

Sorry, but nothing that the opinion sellers have brought to the hobby qualifies as a 'positive' from my perspective.

Doug

My 83 year old mother thinks WFT means 'well that's fantastic'

Here it means "Want to Trade For"...

So if you’re leaving the hobby does that mean you’re selling your collection?

And if you’re selling, do you plan to grade anything first as a means of maximizing your proceeds?

Just curious!

…and maybe a little snarky….

I am poor. Thirteen years ago I got back into the hobby I loved as a kid. I wandered into a card store and discovered I could buy the cards from the 80s, 70s, and 60s I wanted but rarely saw back in the day, and for less than they would have cost me in 1992. I spent $5 a week building a collection of stuff that meant something to me for nostalgic reasons or because of the team I followed. If I skipped a week, I had &10 for the next. I got complete sets of 84, 85, and 86 Topps for $2 a $5 each. i soon discovered a Gold Medal Foods Ducky Medwick on eBay for $15. I couldn’t believe that someone as poor as me could acquire a pre-war HOFer. This led me to Net54 and a whole new world I never dreamed of having access to. Then I found a Ty Cobb without the Cobb price tag, and a Sisler, and a Ruth. And I eventually put together the whole Gold Medal WS set. It was great fun for a while. Now, all that stuff is 10x what it was ten years ago. Which is good for the stuff I already have, but bad for the $5 a week budget. I’d like to say my situation has also improved ten-fold and a $50 per week budget would be nothin to me. But unfortunately I can’t say that. Instead, what I’ve tried to shift to is trading. And that has been a blast. The trouble is that it is very time consuming. I often have to take extended breaks. Why do I write all this? I don’t know. Maybe just to recognize the OP’s frustration about how the hobby changes and that there are consequences - and that it is kind of lousy when you are in a groove with it and it all makes sense for you and then it gets turned upside down. If you are limited in how you can enjoy the hobby, and the hobby changes on you and messes with your limits, then you’ve lost your hobby, and the loss is real. But sometimes there are ways to pivot and discover a new angle to take and still find a similar enjoyment. I liked what that 60s Post Cereal set collector is up to (not for me, but I like the idea).

“Only a Sith deals in absolutes.” — Obi-Wan

Give me the serenity to accept the things I can change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. (Or something like that)

The hobby is different than when I started opening packs in 69 and buying vintage (at the age of 10) from Gar Miller in 71. Things in life change. Either we adapt, see the good in the changes while accepting the difficult, or we move on. We never will return to before, but that doesn't mean today can't be special.

I love collecting. Some aspects I love more than others, but it's all part of the tapestry. I find plenty of reasons to be grateful that I can participate as my means allow.

I loved watching Gibson, Seaver and other great starting pitchers of that era. We'll never see their likes again. But then I got to love watching Maddux, Glavine and Johnson. And now I really enjoy deGrom, Scherzer and Kershaw. Be present in the moment and you'll find reasons to smile (collecting) today without lamenting what never will be again.

This place gives this collector reasons to smile every day. And I thank you!

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Oops, accept the things I CAN'T change

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Have hope and shift your focus, since the paradigm of (some) cards have changed.

With the price of cards through the roof to meet the increased demand brought on by work from home plus stimulus money in 2021 resulting from the pandemic, I created a post a while back asking how have you supplemented your card collecting and still found ways to enjoy the hobby. My example (cost less than a few hundred $ total) is below and the thread is here if you'd like to contribute:

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=317438

Yep…
 

Grading is dum

Please respect her enough to tell her the truth.

WTF means Where's The Food? (or sometimes Why The Face?)

And LOL means Lots Of Liquor.

"WFT" means her grandson is dyslexic.

I have a friend who has lived in Austin, TX for the last 40 years. Every time I visit, the city has changed, grown, evolved. Whenever I mention it, he responds, "Everyone who moves to Austin wants it to stay exactly how it was when they moved here."

I guess our own little hobby isn't that different in many ways.

No matter what happens from here on out Mr. Ingram........you still had a bunch of great R&B hits in the 80's!

Sadly that J@mes In.gram passed away in 2019. Heck of a singer he was.

Every town I've ever lived in has totally gone to shit if you ask someone who has never moved. Never the idyllic way it used to be.

If Don Henley were here he would say to you

All this whinin' and cryin' and pitchin' a fit
Get over it
Get over it

I have a love / hate relationship with grading. When they screw up too often or offend my OCD, I don't submit for a while and sing the praises of raw cards.

I would agree with those who have said there is plenty of room in this hobby for you to do you. For me lately that has included low grade raw vintage, high grade slabbed vintage, and an entirely too-expensive jumbo hobby box of '23 Topps Series 1.

I get where the OP is coming from. Many have been priced out of cards they want. One may have to alter their collecting habits to a "cheaper" version of collecting. However, this many times is not the answer as one has to try and create a passion for certain sets or grades, and that usually falls flat. Baseball cards have become more of an investment than a hobby. Personally , I would love to see a huge correction so I can finish off my 1953 Topps set (mantle, robinson, mays). Not going to hold my breath.

People can always try to cast a wider net. While I would love to someday collect prewar HOF'ers, I largely haven't since getting back into the hobby about 8 years ago because most of the stuff I would want there has gotten so stupid expensive. I can get one beater marquee HOF'er from Goudey or T206, or I can get several nice, upper midgrade HOF'ers from the 1950's or 60's for the same price. To me that's a no brainer, I'm always going to choose the larger collection over only having just a few super pricey cards. So, with that situation - I could choose to be ticked off at what I can't afford (or more likely what I don't want to move to afford certain things), or I could just find other things to collect that still hold my interest.

In doing the latter, I've realized that there is still enough stuff postwar, 1950's - 70's that I don't have that I'm still interested in that I can probably stay busy for at least a couple of decades to come. So instead of worrying about pricey prewar, I'm going to finish my '72 Topps set, and maybe get to work on something fun and cheap like a '73 Kellogg's set. I guess some people get fed up and don't want to do that, but if you are open to casting a wider net and figuring out more stuff that you like within your budget, I think most collectors would be surprised at what they can make happen. But each unto their own.

I have found that mass quantities of Tequila seems to "dull" the pain of all of this.............

I'm working on the set as well, and I was rereading some old emails between me and another collector about it. I can't count all the times I mentioned passing on a card I still need at prices that seem quaint now.

I primarily collect 19th century cards and what I've found to be a fun, and much cheaper, is to create starting lineups/teams with the cards. I've been able to research a lot of non-HOF players who've had amazing careers with the bonus of putting together a solid mostly non-HOF team.

Forgotten stars like Dave Foutz, Adonis Terry, Mike Tiernan, Chief Zimmer, Oyster Burns, and Mike Griffin.

In the immortal words of Sergeant Hulka, “Lighten up, Francis!”.

I got this T207 in today, it was a whopping $7 plus shipping on eBay. You can collect cards with a tiny budget; you just can't go for the top .1% of investing cards. There's ton of great stuff for the collector who doesn't care about money that can be enjoyed on a budget or no budget. I spent last weekend in the backyard opening 2 boxes of 1990 Topps football looking to make a set of disclaimer backs from them that cost like $10 total or something and had a blast. Enjoy it, invest in it, whatever people do it can't ruin the fun for someone else. That I buy cards for fun and to keep doesn't ruin things for investors, that they buy slabs with their 401K's they've drained doesn't ruin the fun for me.

Make sure the T207 doesn't end up in the fire along with those football cards.

Brian

Instructions unclear, I now have half a T207 with a crispy border.

Some final thoughts on my rant.

No, I'm not quitting the hobby, just the investment brokerage side of it. Sometimes I get the wild idea that I need to break up the good old boy country club, that pats each member of the club on the back whenever they "pick up" their latest multi-thousands of dollars "card". Jealousy? Perhaps so. Then again, perhaps not. I'm pretty happy with the cards I have to this point.

No, I'm not going to rant anymore, or interrupt or hijack threads about graded cards or investments. Sometimes I wish Leon would just go ahead and change the name of the forum to "net54baseball cards investments and associates".

No, I'm not going to sell my cards for pennies on the dollar, for someone to send off and have graded and then sell for a small fortune.

No, I am not going to have any of my cards graded. There are a multitude of reasons why I am not going to do so. Graded, encapsulated cards is not at all why I collect baseball cards.

Yes, I am going to continue to collect.

Thanks for clarifying!

A little rant now and again can be cathartic. So feel free to let it out every once in a while. Better out than in, I always say.

Hopefully, it will at least be a different rant, though, next time.

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