What card would you arrange financing to buy?
 

Interesting convo the other day among several long time collectors. I'm interested to know what this forum thinks...

Would you buy a card > $1,000 (or $10K, or whatever threshold you set) that you can't pay for in the near future, i.e. use a credit card or otherwise arrange financing, because the card is rare or its one you've always wanted in that particular condition or grade? If so, do you have any terms like, 1) must have the ability to pay off in six months, or 2) the interest rate must be below x%, or 3) its an item that you feel you can flip and make back all your money plus any interest?

Some have deeper pockets than others, but a few friends admitted to making payments for a long period of time to get their Cobb or Ruth or Jordan. Which card is the one you would honestly go into debt for? Not taking about some one time purchase from a desperate seller, but a card at fair market value. Any thoughts to share?

None!

None. Save up and buy it later.

0

None. I’m not going into debt for a cardboard picture. I don’t buy anything I cannot afford. No more than a small fraction of cash on hand should be spent on toys.

Good luck to those who bet more than the entirety of their resources on a card bubble.

If you're thinking about financing a card. It might be a better idea to sell every card you have in order to buy the card you so want. If you have to finance a card you cant afford the card. Sell what you have and then use the funds to buy.

No debt on cards. Have a card budget and stick to it. The temptation is to strong to go wild and get in trouble.

I love my wife, I love my life. None!

I have personally made deals that included me making a few payments over a couple months. I have also sold cards the same way. I have only done this with a few people I have known in the hobby for several years.

Man.

After all of our marvelous disputations about cashing out your 401k to buy cardboard, I figured there would be more takers here.

Plus you’ve got all of the new fancy vaults with their lending features that seem so enticing to lever up to buy some exciting pieces!!

Naturally, I’m in the “no bloody way” camp.

No, to financing but....
 

Terry Knouse Sr. sold me some great stuff (Just So etc..) around 2000, at a National. I didn't have the money at the time but had a great outsides sales IT job and knew it would be coming in. I asked if I could pay him for around 16k in cards, in 90 days. He said sure, take as long as you need to, and gave me the cards to take home. I think I repaid him in one month. Again, I believe that was the first time I ever met him. But to answer the question, no. :)
.
.

What he said +1000. If you can't afford it, you don't need it.

I now believe I have reached a significant personal milestone...1,000 net54baseball.com posts! Yee ha!!!

I've bought cards on my credit card, but never spent so much that I can't pay off the card in full before the next payment is due. I don't think I could ever get to a point where I'm stretching payments over multiple months to buy a card.

Because every thread deserves a card, here's one that would at least make me pause and think about it

Higher end cards transact privately with different payment terms quite often. Some of the best cards are bought and sold among the collectors this way. Not CC, no interest, just payment terms among friends/collectors/dealers.

Absolutely correct!!

Another in the no way camp!

I’m at a loss as to why the answer to debt is a resounding no but the answer to draining retirement accounts and taking a huge tax hit to buy cards one can’t afford was a “yes!”. You’d think that kind of “everything all in on cards” mentality would produce a yes to both, or if common sense is applied a no to both.

I have used PayPal credit no interest for 6 months
Many many many many times

Yeah, sure. If you're one of the beautiful people of the (so called) "hobby" at that lofty level. I came to the conclusion I wasn't in that club when reality set in long, long ago. So go ahead and sell me one of the "best cards". When I can't pay up, Johnny Two Times and his ball peen hammer will pay me a little visit.

Okay. Probably not quite the same, but I did have a transaction that I paid in two payments over a couple of weeks. However, my motivation was simply to drive down the individual payment amount to drop below the threshold triggering my wife’s reporting requirements.

The REAL Johnny Two Times with the Hammer!

I wish REA Auctions had 6 months no interest

I'm like most others.............never!

The truth is that any of us would go into debt to buy a card if the deal is right. I'd happily draw down a $100,000 HELOC to get a T206 Wagner because I could flip it for a large multiple. Now, if you qualify it with provisos like I cannot flip it or it has to be purchased "at market value" (whatever that is; a whole other debate), then the deal doesn't make sense and my answer is "no". I would only go into debt to make money.

None!

Ditto! I'll never finance a card, but I've asked to make payments over a month or two. Sometimes to avoid the eye of sauron; other times, so that I could sell off a few other items to help pay for it.

Bill

So I think the retirement question was a yes is because technically, you own that money and are not in debt to something.

+1 Agree

I have done it both ways multiple times with people I met in the hobby and/or on this forum

Exactly! If you're working and using money you earned to buy cards, that is using after-tax money as well. Money you put into your 401K just hasn't been taxed yet, so what really is the difference, other than the timing of when you pay the tax on that money that you earned and is yours?

My wife refers to my collection mostly as 'pictures of old, dead men on cardboard'.

I could be wrong, but reading between the lines of the OP a little bit, I think the context/situation is one in which you've been jonesing for a card for a long time, and have a chance now to pick it up, but don't have the cash to make it happen.

Although not explicit in the OP, I (perhaps simplistically) assumed that we were talking about a market price, or at least something approximating market, maybe with a slight discount because we all love a good deal when we're buying.

Naturally, if you want to change the facts to an improbable/unlikely/fantasy situation, then the answer might change, depending on the precise opportunity that comes along.

The question is explicitly about cards at current, fair market value.

That’s how I describe it too. A little cognizance of the absurdity of the things we happen to like helps to keep things in perspective and not take it so seriously that one drains their retirement, goes into debt, or trades their first born to Satan.

Never.

Buying - absolutely never happen - never in the past - never in the future.

Selling - maybe I would accept payments if I've known them for a minimum of my entire life.

So I take it you're not a fan of the Little Mermaid selling her soul to the devil to fundamentally change who she is to chase after a boy she's never really met?

But maybe love is more important than cardboard!

As an expert on relationships*, that sounds like a perfectly healthy foundation to me. What could go wrong? If she changes herself to always be what he wants, she’ll never lose him!



* Do not ask for evidence or credentials.

This one
_

I've made payments on items several times over the years but I've never paid any interest, and wouldn't.

Yes, I would ...
 

for an 1885 Sam Thompson Evansville Cabinet.

Looks like this one last sold a couple of years ago. Any reason why you didn't pick it up then, even going into hock for it?

Maybe the vault lending options weren't as generous as they are today?

Now I'm going to have to watch Little Mermaid. That's what it's about? :D

A big zero

Makes ya wonder if the food chain diagram needs to be redrawn, no? Humans are simply amazing.

To the OP, I would never finance a card purchase, liquidate a retirement account or use funds earmarked for another purpose to purchase a card.

I wasn't back into pre-war collecting when it sold.

Gotcha. Maybe it will come back around in the next few years, and we'll see if the price is right, even factoring in potential borrowing...

Maybe, my thought is that card will not see the light of day for a long time.

I’m 70. If I was single I might finance everything and let the CRC companies deal with it when I’m dust (used to work with banks and think very little of them).

But that’s not me. Cash n carry these days.

I wouldn’t buy anything that required a payment plan—I collect for fun but have huge responsibilities as a parent/spouse and wouldn’t jeopardize my family for cardboard. I did try to buy a card I couldn’t really afford at the time with the thought that I could sell something really liquid (52 Topps Mantle) after to pay back my savings account after. Ended up losing the auction and doubt that card will ever see the marketplace again in my lifetime. But such is life.

Wow Phil

I am drooling for that card.

Chris - Any chance you would be willing to share with us the card that you missed out on? Just so we can join you in wishing that you had landed it?

Never would I borrow money to buy cardboard. If I can't live in it or drive it I wouldn't borrow anything.

T206 Plank took me two years to pay off. The Cobb back took me almost as long, as well as the sale of 90% of my set (but I kept the best 10%). And looking back I wouldn't do anything differently. They're the best cards that I own and if I had to cut back on my spending on cards for a couple years, it was worth it.



I suppose that this also explains why I drove a 1996 Honda Civic for 18 years (348K miles).

Around 20 or so years ago, a PSA 1-2 T206 Plank was on ebay. I went to my credit union and got a loan for $16K for it.

I ended up the under-bidder at $16,100; it went for $16,200, and I paid the loan money back to the credit union.

I suppose I would do it again, if the cost of the loan (principal + interest) made sense compared to the value of the item I was buying.

Steve

Agree 100%

If there is a deal so good you are willing to go into debt for it you are probably getting scammed.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

People have drained retirement accounts to buy cardboard? What?!

Sure, if it made sense. I doubt I'd ever use a high interest loan like a credit card for a card that would take me a year to pay off, but I've taken some time to pay for cards and offered the same to people over the years.

What Sean said above is the right answer imo. If you have a collection worth say 50k and your dream card is worth 20k and you're willing to sell as much as you need to from your collection to own it, and you can negotiate a 6 month window to pay, sure, why wouldn't you?

Right? One of the most beautiful cards I've ever seen. I'd trade 10 clown like E90-1 Jacksons for that card.

We had a whole thread on it a couple months ago. The normal pumpers were frustrated some people spoke in favor of common sense and not betting one’s family’s entire future on baseball cards.

Maybe the thread just lasted forever, but I could swear it didn’t wrap up until like 2 weeks ago.

Found it here:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...errerid=883728

5 weeks ago instead of 8, I stand corrected.

I can see I'm in the minority. Using a CC does not bother me. Is it smart? Probably not. But I'm not destroying my life, my family's life, or signing a pact with the devil. I don't drink, smoke, gamble, drink coffee, speculate in the markets, I don't travel, or go to concerts. We don't own a house (and the idea that my $10k collection would translate into a 20% down payment is ridiculous). I have a pension, life insurance, I have additional investments called DCP, I have started saving for my kids college, I pay for my kids to be in after school activities, I force my wife to buy clothes and shoes, I take my wife on dates. All of the things I've listed are paid for in cash. Compared to my college debt (which honestly might never be paid off before I die), my CC debt is miniscule and is paid off every year. Both of my kids cost $5k each in health costs. They were more expensive than any card I ever bought.

Sent from my SM-G9900 using Tapatalk

I have accepted layaway from buyers and I have done layaway with sellers but I don't think of that the same way as going into debt. It is basically making a non-refundable deposit.

I really can't think of a single card that I want to have so much that I would go into debt to get it. The closest I ever came was considering using a credit line to buy a Bruce Lee signed card at one of the National shows. I ultimately decided it wasn't worth it.

I’m guessing that most people who are considering going into debt are looking at buying a card for 5 or 6 figures, maybe more. From the sound of it, you’re sticking to 3 or maybe low 4 figures tops.

I wouldn’t sweat buying a card here and there on your credit card at those prices, although I would encourage you to pay it off quick, because the interest will erode your ability to make additional acquisitions.

Paying in installments is different than going into debt. Though, if one needs or wants to pay in installments instead of up front, that should be a red flag that one is purchasing something that it is not responsible for them to purchase. If it’s too much of a hit to want to see at once, you probably shouldn’t be buying it.


I have paid more than 1% of my cash on hand for a card (not net worth, but liquid cash sitting in the bank) only once. I would guess I am in the bottom 10% of active posters here in net worth as I am young and have not had many earning years. Cards are a hobby. They might make you money over the long haul and they might end up a good investment. Spending your money on cards instead of you and your family’s needs (which kind of has to happen if you’re going into debt because you can’t actually afford the card) is irresponsible. Just as you shouldn’t go into debt to invest in bonds, stocks or crypto you shouldn’t spend more than you have, or most/all of what you actually have, on baseball cards if they are investment. If they are not an investment, it’s even more grossly irresponsible to put yourself into debt for a hobby item for your collection. Housing, food, transportation, retirement, savings for a rainy day, all these need to come first. This should go without saying…

Over the years I have both bought and sold on installments or some variation thereof and I can’t think of an issue with either. Oftentimes a buyer may be asset sufficient but cash poor and just needs some time to reallocate things.

agreed absolutely beautiful and I to would trade the e90-1 and other quality/rare cards in my collection for that card.

That is a Great Card to me and RARE RARE RARE


Would look nice in a Joe Jackson Collection or by itself

Selling to buy is good in theory, but doesn't always work out. I have borrowed to buy a card. I was bidding and the card went higher than I thought. I decided to place one more bid knowing I would have to borrow to pay and won. My only regrets in this hobby are the things I have not bought, or at least tried harder to buy.

What I don't understand is people borrowing to buy a car (an asset that decreases) or pay for college. Those are things that I would never do. To borrow to buy an asset that will increase in value, under the right circumstances, absolutely.

I admit to using paypal's zero interest for whatever few months a few times so I can use their free plan to use my money for interest bearing wiser reasons. I have never paid paid them one red cent in interest on it though. In my mind that's not really financing it.

As for financing with a loan or even using a charge card long enough for interest, it's a no.

How does one pay for college without borrowing?

I've sold stock in order to pay for a high dollar card and never regretted it.

Several times, on this net54 forum, I was allowed to use the layaway plan to buy cards I simply could not afford to buy all at once. Was that a kind gesture that they did not have to do by the sellers? Absolutely! And because of their kindness I didn't have to go into debt to get cards I really wanted, that have become irreplaceable in my modest collection. Not the same at all as using credit or taking out a loan, and my wife is totally okay with it.

Exactly!

What's the card, and what's the deal on it. A valuable card at a crazy price? Yes, I probably would.

Any card at full current retail? Nope.


I was discussing hobby stuff with another collector and we got to talking about some hobbies having things that might be "needed" especially for an exhibit, but that are well out of range in price. He said that going into debt for a collection separates a serious collector from an advanced collector. (Assuming a lack of extreme wealth, which some have had in any collecting field. )

E107 Mathewson - if I had a chance at one, I’d have to think long and hard about financing options.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

To me, buying cards with credit is akin to trading stocks on margin. Just won't do it.
And, Phil, that TT Jax has been my Moby Dick forever. Just beautiful, you lucky dog. Can I sniff it sometime?

Four strategies that worked for me, my wife, and for our kids (so far - 2nd one is a freshman now):

1a) Attend a school with relatively affordable tuition. My kids and I both went to a private school, but the tuition was/is not a lot. I paid $1k per semester. My kids are paying $3k per semester. Inflation continues to raise the rates, but compared to places that charge $30k per semester, it's tough to beat the value. That may mean going to a state school or spending a few years at community college first. If all else fails, there's the military and the GI bill, which is how my father did it, after serving in Vietnam for 2 tours as a Marine Scout Sniper.

1b) Study hard and get good grades, and apply for academic scholarships. I got a full-tuition scholarship after my first semester, but had to continue to deliver to keep it. My son just received a full-tuition scholarship as well. My daughter, who just graduated, had a 25% tuition scholarship. Apply yourself, and you will find scholarships are available. At the same time, my wife didn't have one, so this one isn't as important as 1a, but it sure doesn't hurt.

2) Work while in school, including during summer breaks. Especially with current wages, most kids can make good money. My freshman son was making $20 per hour over the summer working in a box factory, 8 hours per day, enough to pay for his freshman year. It was hard work and required him to get up every day at 5am to get to the salt mines and put in his time. I made half that working jobs on campus, but every bit helps.

3) Live frugally. It's called a starving student for a reason. You want to drive a pimped out ride, live in fancy digs, eat at hipster restaurants and travel like a Kardashian on a private jet? When you're making 7 figures, sure. But until then, you're slumming it with a used Corolla, eating ramen and rice, and riding at the back of the plane with inconvenient connections at odd hours.

It can definitely be done. I've done it, and so have many others. But it requires effort, sacrifices and compromises, which seem to be in short supply these days.

Rich parents.

True, as the OP here, that's exactly what I was curious about. If there's something you couldn't generally afford without a loan/line of credit/other terms, would you make the stretch to get it, or be content without it for the present time?

To be honest, I have made a few purchases in the past without the funds available, feeling confident that I could either acquire the funds through sales or otherwise cover the amount in a month or two tops. However, now that I'm older, I'm far more risk averse... also, happy wife, happy life a consideration!:) I'm fortunate to say my PC is all mine, nothing to pay back to anyone. not so when I was younger...

What i dont have today i dont need tomorrow!

Reminds me of this sweet SNL skit from the financial crisis:

https://youtu.be/R3ZJKN_5M44

Because Hollywood is a paragon of financial restraint, natch…