Heritage Rosen Mantle - Greatest Card Ever Auctioned?
 

Just saw The Card. Astounding and exceeded expectations. Just gorgeous, and with provenance to boot.

Wonder where it will end-- wonder how it will affect the card in all grades, especially those examples with rare centering.

Provenance in an old baseball card-- let alone tracing it to the pack-- is incredibly rare in our hobby. Bravo to the owner-- what a beauty. Hope the winner lends it to a museum occasionally.

Who is Rosen Mantle?

mr mint alan rosen funny robert

Yea...haha..

Wow, that's an attractive card:https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball/1...ription-071515
Its nice that they included the video of Rosen discussing the find.

I guess it sold raw for $50K in 1991. Adjusted for inflation, that is about $100K.

Heritage expects it to sell for $10M or more.

Not bad.

That's about double what that PSA 9 sold for a few in January 2021.

Never heard of any of these cards being traced back to a pack? Interesting to compare something like the Rosen 1952 Topps purchase to the black swamp find of e98. The main difference being the overall population of existing cards. If the black swamp find were t206s and not E 98 they would be absorbed and embraced in the hobby As some of the finest examples known to exist just like these 1952 topps.

Mine is. Which is frankly why I love it so much, beyond even centering.

As to the Rosen card, I thought the find's owner had the case in his basement-- so while not to the exact pack, pretty close.

Just imagining the e98s as t206's is fun. I also sometimes wonder how cool it would be if Ruth had a CJ. Fun hobby day dreaming.

Yeah just imagine if there were a crackerjack Babe Ruth!!

I'm guessing it will hammer at about half Heritage's 10M est.

12.95m

A Little More Background on This
 

Believe it or not, I know the man who is selling this card. I will respect his privacy and not mention his name. Back in November 2004 I visited his home in New Jersey and saw A LOT of his baseball memorabilia collection. To this day it remains THE most incredible personal collection I have ever seen in my life.
He told me himself that he was the guy at MSG who brought his son with him to that show and worked out the deal with Alan Rosen. As many of you know, it was written up in Rosen's book, True Mint.
An earlier post mentioned that the owner kept this incredible 1952 Mantle in his basement. That's true. When I walked in I first said hello to his wife and then headed right downstairs. His collection is behind a floor to ceiling bank vault. He told me to turn my head as he dialed the numbers to open the vault. I walked into a truly amazing array of collectibles. He truly loves The Mick. I couldn't believe the items he had in this room. I won't go into detail out of respect to this fine gentleman.
As for the card? Back then it was raw but protected in plastic, of course. Next to it was a "to whom it may concern" letter from Rosen stating that it was from the find. Rosen made it clear in this letter that in his opinion it was THE finest card from that 1986 discovery. I kid you not.
To this day (hard to believe it was 18 years ago) I considered myself truly blessed to have seen this card up close, not to mentioned many other items once owned by The Mick. Like, WOW.
I wish this gentleman nothing but success in this auction.

I'll definitely take the over.

True "Provenance" is when you have pulled a Mantle card from its pack in the Fall of 1952.

That I did, and only paid a penny for it.


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...mmantle52t.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...wrapper100.jpg



TED Z

T206 Reference
.

It's already at 4 mil before buyers premium as of 11:38am on 7/25 with 33 days left

I'll give you a quarter Ted. Heck of a return on your investment. ;)

Surely this belongs in the post-WWII section, but I guess if you can't beat 'em, join 'em, so here I am. Winning bid will be $6,000,000. That's $7.2M with the premium, and just a bit under $8M once you factor in sales tax and the Heritage shipping charges (not in that order actually).

If it's the best why didn't SGC give it a 10.

I think about stuff like this all the time. Helmar Brewing has done a few "what if" cards in certain styles. But Yes one has to think how certain players, would look, on certain issues, had they been made.


Ted,

I don't think I will ever tire of seeing this picture or hearing the story. Best of luck at the National, my friend. Did you get my latest email?

- James

Ted,

That is so awesome, to have the very wrapper it came from. Exceedingly rare aspect to any card that old. Also love how much passion you clearly have for it!

I do not have the wrapper from the pack mine came from; though I do have a lovely recorded interview of its one prior owner talking to my son and I about the day he pulled it, how the pack was bought with money from his paper route, the store where he bought the pack, the town— and even how he hit the town's first little league homer!

Wish I could have pulled it myself— indeed I have always have felt like I was born in the wrong decade!

Here is mine. Why pay an extra $10,000,000 just for CORNERS! :)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...e17d7ede_z.jpg

Top border is discolored. Back is a little off-center and possibly has a stain near the "Okla."

Yep, and already over with the BP at $5,280,000
In the last 10 or so minutes I've been logged in, it has jumped $150,000.

Great story.
Thanks for sharing. :)

Matt

The 1952 TOPPS wrapper on display is not the original one which I pulled Mantle from.
However, here are the original 4 cards that were in the 5-cent wax-pack with Mantle.

I can recall that moment 70 years ago as if it just occurred yesterday.

Matt, I appreciate your kind words.

https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...fhermspenc.jpg
TED Z

T206 Reference
.

Agreed amazing card and we can all own it if Leon buys it on behalf of the forum and we all chip in for fractional shares

Ted,

Thanks for sharing. I can't believe I haven't heard your story. May be one of the best hobby stories there is.

Brent

Jeff is kidding of course, but seriously if all the members (not sure how many active there are) of Net54 would contribute a few thousand dollars, Net54 would actually easily win the card. :D

Set aside the 52 mantle, how hard in general was it to get a mantle card from a pack back in the 1950s? My father said it was like hitting the lottery almost.

It sounds like this card was kept raw until this auction, when Heritage submitted to SGC. Does anyone know why they didn't submit to PSA? Did they think it wouldn't get a 10? Did they think it would fetch more as the highest-graded SGC than as one of 4 PSA 10s? It seems like a consequential decision here.

1958 Mantle All-Star was probably the easiest card of the 1950's lol.

Pulling a Mantle was not difficult. The 51 Bowman and 52 Topps highs was the only time he was in a harder to find series and he was a DP in the Topps. With his All Star cards, combo cards, appearance in many regionals, etc. he might have been literally the easiest player to get a card of in the 50’s.

Shouldn’t the yellow staining at the top prevent this from being a 9.5 Mint+? Does SGC normally allow that on Mint+ cards?

That 4.5 Mantle looks absolutely amazing

Congrats on a great card

AP article quoting owner of 1952 Mantle up for auction
 

The card's owner, Anthony Giordano, gave some quotes to the AP.

https://apnews.com/article/mlb-sport...d47c39120f8e74

Thank you, sir. That centering and brightness grabbed me at first sight and have had strong hold ever since. I still vividly remember when the great Joe T called me and said: "Matty, I found your card!"

Mr. Mint describes his 1952 find


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxUSvQ7ewQQ

I would assume it either came back a 9, then bumped at SGC, or they started there and it didn't get the 10 at PSA, but you never know.

That is the nicest 52 Mantle I've ever seen, and I won't be surprised at all if it goes well past the estimate. Either way it sounds like the card's owner made one of the best 50k investments of all time.

Love Ted’s and Marty’s story and provenance of their 52’ Mantle. Mine also came from the original owners family. I’m the second owner, here’s the story:

https://youtu.be/Ef_1ZyPVvG8

One of the consignment directors who was part of the team that delt with this card said it's cause SGC had a 9.5 grade and PSA only did 9. He said that the card was special and didn't want it to be just another mantle as there's 6 PSA 9s. He says that both companies are great choices but those were their reasons.

This was all said on the reddit baseball card forum where he's a pretty prominent member.

Jason Simonds is his name

How can SGC examine the card that was still inside a PSA holder and claiming the card wasn't trimmed and was just undersized? LOL

Why does Heritage say that the card is the Finest Known Example? It's graded SGC 9.5 which is a Mint+. In a recent SCD article written about Marshall Fogel. He says that he owns a PSA 10 version of that card which is a Gem Mint.

I always thought that a Gem Mint was better than a Mint+. So, wouldn't that mean the card owned by Fogel is considered the Finest Known Example?

I wouldn't mind owning either one of the 2 cards but I am just curious.

I believe there are 3 PSA 10s so I agree. Seems a bit odd. Would love to own any of them. The 4.5 above is amazing. 52 Mantles are just gorgeous in my opinion.

Marshall Fogel's PSA10 Mantle is based off the grading standard when PSA starts grading... which was like 25 yrs ago. Definitely not perfect Gem Mint.

When a card gets to that point of being either Mint or Gem Mint or whatever, who can really tell the difference.
The Mantle card is beautiful in any grade. It would be more beautiful in my hands.

I think the reality is that if you lined up all of the top-graded mantle 52 topps rookies graded 9.5/10… some would look dramatically better than others.

Hence the problem with arbitrary third party grading… flawed from the start, ever-changing standards. Yet time people devote to arguing and complaining about it is numbing to me?

I believe they are using Rosen's 1991 direct quote which at the time was the "finest known example".

I think this SGC 9.5 Example has the best centering and blue color out of the three PSA 10's. All are beautiful :-) and deserve their said assigned grades.

It's sometimes hard to judge color on these due to scan/picture settings, particularly Heritage's.

Bingo! (Not saying this nice Mantle....) Heritage has a separate photoshop team enhancing their images.... creases can disappear, faded colors got enhanced to pack fresh stage. :)

Well I believe it's assumed all of the very high grade Mantles came from that find. Rosen is probably the last one to see them all together. But the flip could also be referring to this being the finest SGC graded example.

Jesse, the flip is referring to and quoting Rosen's words from the letter he wrote about this very card. It's a nod to the provenance, as opposed to a reference from SGC about the card's grade. Just clarifying.

While it was eons ago, I remember well opening multiple packs of the last series '52 Topps, or as many as my meagre allowance at the time would allow, in a vain search for the Mick. My hometown growing up was Schenectady, NY, which seemed to have been blessed with an abundance of the ultimate series due to whatever geographical distribution Topps planned. I found Campy, Pee Wee, Jackie and Eddie without any trouble, but, oh, that Mantle eluded me. I already had the '51 Bowman, which I had found in a pack the prior year when the cards bug infected me (still infected) and knew i had to have the '52 Topps. Despite all the time since then, I have never owned one. Ted, you were one lucky Dude when you grabbed that mystical pack. If it couldn't be me, I am glad it was you. John

Amazed
 

Might be one of the coolest things I have ever read on this site, thanks for sharing Ted

Makes sense. Since he did see them all together he would have had the best chance to identify the finest example. Hard to imagine a better looking 52 Mantle. If I hit tonight's mega millions I will be bidding.

John, thanks for sharing this insight into what it was like back then. Truly, alongside Ted's experience, one of the coolest perspectives I've absorbed here. Many of us born in the 70s and 80s, who grew up staring at the 52T set in the likes of Beckett and CCP guides, have imagined as boys (and even as men!) opening those packs when they were the current cards out. Amazing.

Best,

MC

There appears to be a stain on the top center. Still a sharp card. 9.5....ok

I see what you're talking about.

Geez, all of the Mantles cards I've had graded come back with ("MEH") on the label.

I think the "staining" on the first picture is probably some kind of photographic anomaly considering how bright and stain-free that same area appears on the picture to the right of it.

It is clearly visible in both pictures on Heritage's sight of the front of the card. This exact issue, some yellow staining at the top of the card, is on some of the other Rosen find cards. Zooming in on each image, it does not appear to be a scanner defect (from Heritage, who often adjusts their scans). Further, it seems incredibly unlikely that Heritage would list a $10mm card that appears it has damage it does not have; if I was the consigner I would be outraged. A preponderance of the evidence available does not suggest to me Heritage's scanner makes cards appear to have stains they don't; though I'm happy to be corrected. Here's a close up, though the ones on Heritage are better as Net54 does not allow decent quality images to be uploaded.

If I submitted a 1952 Dale Coogan in this exact condition and without the backstory and provenance, does anyone honestly think I would get a 9.5?

Just curious-and I am NOT accusing Heritage of this-but is anybody else having Mastro going through their mind on this lot?

With a little luck you could get a PSA 9(ST).

https://www.gosgc.com/card-grading/submissions

A 7 allows "some print spots or speckling", though stains are never directly stated.

The description for grades above a 7 seem to preclude this sizable area of staining.

I doubt my hypothetical Coogan without hobby flex or a narrative would grade above a 7 on their scale.

While that card is undoubtedly fantastic, my impression was that the color on the Fogel PSA 10 might have been a bit better. I've never seen either card in person, so of course that opinion would be very open to interpretation.

Definitely curious that SGC was used. I think that is a huge boost to SGC since i cannot recall a top top card like this in an SGC holder. Any others?

It's a great card, but there is toning/staining that just cant be ignored. Someone will buy the flip for the bragging rights.

Agreed about the stains and agreed this card will be about the bragging rights

Since Multiple people are brining up staining... I have one question to them, What grade would you give it?? To me, this card deserves a SGC 9.5.

Maybe the discoloration/staining is why the card is a 9.5 and not a 10? Just a thought.
I also agree it's a trivial issue and deserves the 9.5.

And then for 70 years successfully kept your mother, girlfriend, wife from throwing it out. :)

Amazing stuff...seriously. What 95% of collectors day dream about.

If I had submitted it I would have been hoping for an 8. That's what I would have graded it myself. And a fine looking 8 it would be.

Dick Towle could have got that stain out. Just sayin'.

I would imagine the bias in grading this one was huge, even for SGC. You've got to imagine that a 9.5 from them on any 1950's card is a pretty rare occurrence. Then they have this specimen, with provenance from Mr. Mint saying he thinks it's the best '52 Mantle in the world. So what do you do with that? I'm thinking the conversation between Peter and the boys was something like "Well, we sure can't give it a 10 because that would lead to criticism that we just totally bowed to the letter, etc. etc." If I'm remembering correctly, when PSA handed out their three 10's on the same card, there was no fanfare and press that followed because of an immediate sale.

I'm guessing they first all agreed that it was mint and then said, "eh, give it the 9.5 to make is special but not a 10."

Since SGC has 2 different 10s they could have give it the lower of the 2.;):D

True. SGC actually has 2 higher grades than the one they gave it.

The card itself is beautiful, and it's the letter that takes it to the next level!!

Smart Man for not only preserving the card but for preserving the letter by Rosen! That letter will probably put 2 to 5 more million in his pocket.

Ethics aside, who in their right mind would risk any damage to a card like that?

Someone who thinks he can quadruple the price of a card already worth millions of dollars for the cost of a procedure that's already been profitably performed on many other cards and is rarely, if ever, detected by TPGs

I thought the grading companies didn't know the submitter when they graded cards. At least that is what they say. Should be objective, they should never know the background of the card, but grade based on looking at it. I know I'm living in a dream world.

SGC’s standards seem to make it a 7 at best.

A card better than mint does not have obvious and significant staining, under any grading companies criteria.