new low for the ebay authenticity thing
 

So a guy has a BIN of 500 on a card, which was way too high. I make an offer in the 300s and he accepts. But because of his original price, a 300+ card now needs to go to the authenticator before it can come to me. Meanwhile it appears to me the program is definitely slowing down a bit, taking a day or maybe two more than originally.

How dare those A-Holes do something to try to stop scammers if it takes a couple extra days. :rolleyes::D:D:D

It's useless for graded cards. The above card is graded.

Don't they send them to PSA? The place that never makes a mistake and everyone working there is WAY smarter than us?

I would like to know how many tampered slabs they have identified to date. My guess is zero.

+1 -- some reporting on how much fraud they have prevented would be terrific.

I have no idea on number but I know several resealed slabs listed on eBay have been called out on here including a T206 green Cobb. Even if they catch a few it is worth it because it also helps stop the listings in the first place if the scammers know the cards need to be inspected by an "expert".

Not cards but they have caught fake sneakers for me.

My card took 10 days to get to me. This was about 2 weeks ago. This card was raw & deemed authentic.

I just got one back from PSA today.

Here's a quandary: how to scan it without destroying the baggie? The labels obscure a good portion of the back of the card. If I wanted to leave it in the sealed baggie (spoiler alert: I don't), I couldn't see part of the card, ever. So I guess if I want to rely on their service, I will never get to see the full card?

Also, the baggies are as baggy as board shorts, so for display they don't even look good.

I still want to know, if you now sell it in its authenticated kit, do you then have to ship it back to them again? :D

I can see the value of the raw review, if done right by qualified people.

I bought a PSA graded card on eBay for over $500 a few weeks ago and the card I bought didn’t go through eBay’s authentication process. It was mailed directly to me within a few days I had received it. I was under the impression anything graded over $500 would have to go through this new process.

I had this happen to me as well apparently there are some ““ buzz words that if put in the listing disqualify the service from being used such as set break which makes no sense to me?

eBay has been going downhill for awhile, but it's turning into a dumpster fire lately.

Going back to the eBay listing, I do see the term “set break” listed in the title. Yeah, makes no sense to me as well.

I was told by an eBay customer service representative that if the card is going to a PO Box, it will not go through the the authenticity guarantee process.

Wait till they start grading the basketball star cards omg .

Great. Very funny.

The guy or gal in Louisiana that opens a drawer and loads up a card never happens anymore. It's no longer a Joe and Jane yard sale. It's serious business.

some folks send cards to PSA, pay through the nose, and eagerly wait 22 months to get them back.

some folks complain about a few days delay, which doesn’t cost them, to have PSA eyeball a card they just bought.

hobby has all types I guess.

22 months lol never understood that

Even if PSA hasn't stopped a single fraudulent slab with the eBay program, the fact that they are at least taking a quick look at these might give fraudsters pause and move them to another business plan.

+1 and the reason I am a huge fan of their Authenticity programs.

That is funny. The first complaint is "there's a bunch of fake cards on ebay and they won't do anything about it!!!"

Then later it's "eBay is checking all the cards for fakes whether I want them to or not!!!"

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They're not eyeballing the CARD just the slab. That's been explained repeatedly. I don't need them to eyeball the slab of a card that was slabbed, by them, a month ago.

There haven't been people posting on this board about fake slabs? From Mexico or something. I seem to recall people even posting eBay listings with fake slabs.

As I posted, in a situation I was involved in, PSA reslabbed a card that was almost certainly a Mexican fake. Anyhow, sure, have Jordan rookies and Goudey Ruths and Gehrigs go in for a review. Not every single freaking card worth 500 or more.

By the way is PSA qualified to review an SGC slab? Because they are now. Beckett too I imagine.

System is far from perfect, but it’s an attempt to deal with a real problem. I applaud them for trying something. Can’t imagine any fraud detection effort is a bad thing.

The last three cards I bought on eBay that went through this process probably arrived in my mailbox before or right around the same time I would have received them from the lion’s share of AHs I buy from.

As a buyer of graded cards, there is no utility whatsoever for me in their service. I have had three pass through with an average delay of 5 biz days. The authentication kit is a marketing disaster and a joke. I want my card, not some piece of junk hiding it. Humbug.

I bought a card from a seller whose cards I always receive on the 3rd day from purchase. That was two weeks ago. Yeah, real value added here.

Hopefully they update this to protect raw buyers to the same degree as buyers of already graded cards.

After eBay sends the card to CSG to take a look, CSG should ship it to PSA who will then authenticate that CSG did, in fact, authenticate the actual card. Then PSA can ship it to the buyer.

Just what the buying experience needs are more hands and time in shipping. Will take a pass. If ya want something graded then buy it already graded.

Whoosh

I'd feel damn good about the card with two nifty blue folders (or whatever you call those stupid things) and two QR codes.

I was thinking that maybe they should start out with CSG then send to PSA then to SGC and finally to Beckett to maximize shipping time from seller to customer. Why not get everyone's opinion.

Brilliant! With a QR code and folder from each, I will finally sleep easy that my card is real.

And then on to MBA for a Gold Diamond Sticker too!

If I am buying raw on eBay I do not need CSG's opinion on the card. I woul dnot be bidding if I was worried the card was altered, counterfeit or graded wrong. Thanks but no thanks. Same with buying a graded card...I do not need PSA telling me the slab is ok and certainly do not need them telling me a CSG, BVG or SGC slab is good. That is laughable.

Not only is it about tampered slab but also getting a box of rocks. I think people forgot quickly how long things took to get 2 years ago, an extra week or so is nothing and tbh, if I'm buying a big card I prefer not to have to worry about the slab being tampered, the raw card being fake or altered or receiving a pile of 91 Fleer instead of a my slabbed Goudey.

interesting how many responses are basically “I can tell a real slab from a fake slab …. this process is stupid.”. Not that it’s good or bad for cleaning up fraud in hobby as a whole, but let me tell you how this is inconvenient to me personally ….

Which post #'s have postulated this argument?

People tend to not like things they think are inconvenient. I've yet to meet a fellow who welcomes inconvenience.

Agree

I wish I had a good fake slab. I’d bet that if it went to PSA for review, it would pass. At least in the context of this program. But do let us know when you hear of a single card that gets rejected.

Well hopefully we can all find out right here on Net54.

Most of the slabbed cards are PSA's right? Maybe 75% of them or more? It would seem PSA should know a lot about their own faked or resealed slabs. And they should be able to build up expertise on the others, assuming they take their job seriously. I don't know why they wouldn't. Ebay might only be paying $5 a slab to do the review so you can't spend a whole lot of time there I guess, but once you have seen enough of them a bad one should stand out.

And I also assume that just by setting up the review process, ebay has caused many of the fake slab sellers to have gone away, so there may not be a lot of bad slabs to find anymore.

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If you feel you need the service then you should use it but I think we should have a choice. Apparently you feel it should be thrust onto everyone. Maybe some of us feel we can fend for ourselves and do not need eBay looking out for us in this manner. As a buyer I have never had an issue with a seller on eBay where I would need the authenticity guarantee.

Thank you.

Unfortunately, with this hobby and many other facets of life, personal responsibility went out the window a long time ago.

Opting out …. the new American mantra. Every system put in place should have my seal of approval on in. Fuck getting a drivers license, if I want to drive without a license or insurance it should be my right. Same with airport security and everything else. Only sheepies let other people tell them what they have to do.

Wut.

A better analogy would be declining the extended warranty when you buy a refrigerator. Do you object to that too?

Unfortunately if someone is an idiot and gets scammed by an ebay seller it reflects poorly on the whole platform. Most people are looking for a site where they don't have to navigate through that nonsense. Good for you that you embrace it but you might have to find somewhere else to fulfill your adventurous side.

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You have a choice, don't use eBay. It's pretty simple.

The concept makes sense as it can get the fraudsters out.....
but how much longer will it be until the buyers have to pay for this service?

BTW, suppose PSA decides a slab is fake. What then? What does it do with the slab?

Or suppose PSA decides a fake slab is real?

From the eBay FAQs about the authentication process:

What if the item does not pass inspection?
If the authenticator cannot verify the item’s authenticity or if the item is not consistent with its listing, you will be issued a full refund to your original payment method. For PSA-graded cards specifically, if a plastic sealed holder is found to be fake or exhibit signs of tampering, PSA will deactivate its certificate and issue a notice to the seller.

There are others way more qualified to answer, and if I didn't expect the answer to be long I'd ask it differently.

Should a buyer expect Ebay to protect them from their own ignorance?

Is there a legal basis for that expectation?

And the unanswerable - why do people find it so onerous to relieve themselves of their ignorance by learning things and instead abdicate that responsibility to a proven incompetent or corrupt third party?

I generally find willful ignorance worse than the scamming itself.

Does the seller still get the slab back?

As I have posted, I believe that happened with an expensive (30k at the time, much more now) card that the evidence (including another card with the identical cert, and sale in the same auction as a documented fake) suggested was fake.

It seems like this choice is getting more and more popular, at least for Prewar cards.

Interesting argument. One must support (or at least express no dissent) of any process put in place by the state or a company.

The irony of making this argument and then ending it by postulating that anyone who makes a decision on their own basis, instead of agreeing with whatever the government or a company has decided to do, are the real 'sheepie' is just outstanding. Bravo

I don't see an answer to that question in the FAQs, but I thought if a raw card failed authentication it was sent back to the seller so I would guess the same would happen with a graded card.

Presumably fake flips take their number from real flips, that's part of how they fool people. At least that is how the Mexican fraud worked. So if PSA deactivates the cert from a fake flip, that means the owner of the real card now has a deactivated cert? What am I missing?

I completely disagree with the comments in this post. Scamming is always worse than ignorance. It's outrageous to me that we can blame the victim of the scamming instead of the perpetrator. There's an entire thread on N54 right now on the scamming going on in the BST, and many of the victims are experienced and knowledgeable board members. it's the same thing with ebay. Buyers on ebay expect a safe marketplace. They shouldn't have to be on guard that they will be scammed.

Therefore, in general, I completely support the steps that ebay is taking with their guarantee authentication service. I have bought several items that went through this service, both graded and raw. I've never had an issue with the additional days that it took for the items to go through the service. Frankly, the biggest time issue was that one seller sent the item to the authentication service through USPS Registered Mail, that that took FOREVER. But everyone recommends Register mail for expensive items, so I was fine with it.

I agree that it makes less sense to have graded cards go through the Authentication service, but I'm fine with it. As others have mentioned, there have been scams even with graded cards such as empty box, bogus tracking numbers, cracked slabs, fake slabs, and so forth. Let me put it this way. Let's say the major auction houses said that as a new policy, graded cards would now be shipped directly from the consignor to you instead of from the auction house. if you have any problems after receiving the item, tough luck. I think there would be outrage against any auction house that announced this change because folks expect the auction house to do some basic sanity checking for even the graded cards as part of the service they expect from the BP they pay. It's the same thing here.

Ah. One of them. Gotcha.

I agree that Jay's suspicion will be foretold and Ebay, in the not so distant future, will decide that buyers should have to pay, say $5, for their "invaluable" authentication service. No free lunches. No sir.

It was one of Steve's most precious posts. Atta boy Steve.

Apparently authentication has been required for sneakers (and I think watches) on eBay for a while. Does anyone know if there is a charge to the seller or buyer for that?

Great point and question. Here's possibly another.

If under the program a graded card gets sent to a TPG to verify that the card holder is real and hasn't been tampered with, what happens if in sending the card to the designated TPG the holder somehow gets damaged in transit? Or what if it gets damaged in the hands of the people at the designated TPG? Could it be possible for that card to be 100% legit and real, but now because of third-party damage to the holder that some examiner deems the damaged holder as tampered with, and therefore puts the legitimacy of the card itself into question?

Which leads back to Peter's and other's other question, what happens to the card itself in such an instance when the holder is considered fake or tampered with? Does it get returned to the seller, but now in damaged form? Since at the end of the day, whatever TPG is hired to review these holders is still only technically giving their opinion, I doubt they could ever claim the cards are truly fake or tampered with, and as a result confiscate them and not send them back to the seller. To my thinking, such an action would go beyond the mere rendering of an opinion, and confiscation of cards would put actual liability in the lap of the TPG and/or online seller, which they most certainly do not ever want if they can help it.

We all know it is not a question of if, but when, something like that finally happens. And at that point I can see a very upset seller getting everyone else all just pointing fingers at each other, and no one taking any responsibility for the whole issue, leaving the seller stuck.

The other part of this I've never understood is how you can pick one TPG group/company to be in charge of reviewing encapsulated cards and holders of other TPGs as well. Exactly how did those designated examiners suddenly become experts in the card holders of every other TPG? What training did they receive and/or school did they attend to gain such knowledge and expertise?

Also, one would think that there should be a sense of independence to this process as well. I can see hiring a TPG to look at raw cards being sold on an online platform as there is no independence question or issue in that case. But in hiring one specific TPG to examine and review card holders of cards they graded and issued, along with graded card holders of all other TPG graded cards, that can raise a bit of an independence issue and question in my mind.

The transparency in this entire program, quite frankly, stinks. Otherwise, people wouldn't have to be bringing up such questions, at least not so long after such a program was initiated and originally put into place.

I have bought several sneakers since it started and there is still no extra fee.

There seem to be plenty of people on this board who think they can identify a fake slab from any company just from seeing online pictures so I don't think it's impossible to think that someone working for one of the grading companies couldn't learn how to identify them with the item in hand.

Bob, I'd be surprised with what is likely the minimal time involved in inspection given how many slabs they are likely be flooded with, whatever clerical personnel are handling this could even discern a good fake slab. Maybe there's some invisible thing that would make it easy for the very latest generation of holders, but almost surely nothing of the sort exists for all the prior generations..

If EVERY graded card listed for $500 or more is going out there now, that's bound to be a huge volume and they're probably scrambling just to put them all in those nifty baggies and blue folders and process the mailing.

What happens to graded cards outside of the big 3 and CSG?

GAI, SCD, GMA, and numerous other old, dubious, or scam graders. Many of these cards will still sell over the threshold for a nice card, as the threshold is not high. PSA will authenticate that the card is in a legit GMA slab, ignore that it’s probably trimmed, and send it to the buyer? Or do they just forward it along without certifying it? Has anyone bought one since this started?

In all instances of the graded card review, PSA is simply looking at the holder and the flip to verify they are 100% authentic. The card inside could be altered or not even real but as long as the holder and the flip are not tampered with, you will be sent the card. Pretty silly stuff.

When you go to do a listing on eBay for a graded card these are the options you are required to pick from for the listing: PSA, SGC, CSG, BVG, BGS, BCCG, GMA, KSA, HGA but you can enter your own acronym too. Maybe those 9 are the ones flagged for the AG program.

I’m aware they are ignoring the card itself, which is the basis of my prior jabs at the absurdity of this ‘service’ and one of the jabs here.

I’m looking to know what actually happens for cards outside the big boys, as I haven’t heard any real world examples. Is PSA claiming to be an expert in the history of GMA slabs from some dudes garage? What happens to a GAI or SCD card, specifically? SCD wasn’t entirely fake, they aren’t an option on eBay categories, but it’s also not under raw and swept up in CSG’s raw card review either, as I understand it.

Bob your conclusion is not valid. It is a long-standing tradition on Net54 to complain about anything new, whether it makes sense or not.

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LOL that is funny and the correct answer to all the silly excuses on why it is bad for eBay to try and help people from getting scammed on their site.

I noticed many of the complainers about this program also complain about fraud in the hobby.

Those that complained about all the altered cards in PSA slabs in the PWCC threads mainly collect PSA graded cards.

If all else fails it is a fun thread to read.:D

Maybe the solution is to allow eBay purchasers to create a 'safe list' of sellers who do not need to send their slabs to PSA for review? I know I would (and have) trusted Scottsdale baseball Cards (Brian Marcy) with some of the most expensive purchases I've made. Why can't I safe list his stuff?

That's a good question, as long as we understand we are fiddling around the edges here. However that ebay and PSA decide to handle GMA and GAI cards doesn't impact the validity of the process they are putting in place for raw cards and mainstream slabs, which between them is 99.9% of what is being sold.

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If you people think this is going to do much of anything to stop fraud, more power to you. Then again, I guess there are people who feel better with a fox guarding their henhouse, after all it needed to be guarded.

Again, I like the idea for raw cards.

And to illustrate the problem I mentioned yesterday:

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...ize/img103.jpg

I can't see the bottom of my damn card unless I remove the label or the baggy. :mad: