How important is centering to you
 

Happy Easter friends!

Just had a question to help me understand you guys better as buyers. When you are shopping for vintage to add to your collection or resell, how important is centering to you?

Would you buy a lower grade card with nice centering and presentation, vs. a higher grade card with better corners and surface, but with worse centering?

Personally, bad centering kills a card to me...just bothers me so much on most cards

For me, by far the most important aspect of a card is the surface. I care more about the image on the card than anything else. I avoid cars with significant "snow" or and print issues on the face of player, and seek out cards with strong color and registration/focus.

Next important is centering. I find that if a card is centered well from left to right, that it is more important than top to bottom. I think this is because some cards (think '54 Topps) don't even have a top border, so it doesn't seem unnatural to me to have a small top (or even bottom) border.

Next important is corners, and last is edges.

This sums it up for me too. I’d rather have a slightly lower grade with strong centering and registration versus a higher grade that is not as strong on those fronts. A big distracting crease is a problem though - would rather have iffy centering if necessary to avoid that.

I have centering OCD so that along with registration and color are the most important factors to me. Add those three together and you get "eye appeal", like this.
_

Centering and image quality must be there for me to buy a card. Corners are a factor that ideally brings down the price for me. I’ll pay a hefty premium for centering/image on a card that is rarely centered, but hate paying for corners lol.

As close as I can get to centered the better. And that depends on the set too. Some sets, you are just going to get close, and close is better than falling off one edge of a card. That is where I will pass on a card or replace it if it is in my sets. Needless to say, all of them have been replaced.

Diamond cuts are a pass too or a filler until I find a better specimen as well.

Cheers,

B. T.

This is the way.

centering
 

Centering is vital when I consider buying a card- Trent King

It is the first thing that jumps out to me. Next would be surface, then corners

Very little in terms of my appreciation of the card, but I'm aware of what effect centering has for other collectors so I factor it into what I'm willing to bid.

My understanding is that the aesthetic preference for symmetry in objects is probably just a side effect of evolved adaptations for preferring mates with more symmetrical faces, and I'm happy not to be beholden to that side effect when I can save some money on a card I want to keep in my long-term personal collection.

Phil and Ian, speak for me as well.

This is the way; I can open up my Zion cases with a smile, as I flip through each row of nice looking old cards.
I am a Pre-War bottom feeder (Raw, 1's, 2's, etc,) but it does count; even at these low depths.

Ben

"I love baseball history backstory; especially when it involves cards."

Centering is a factory flaw and as such is not a very big factor. Hell, some T206 people will give massive premiums for oc cards. Handling AFTER a card leaves the factory means much more. Creasing is a major factor for me and paper loss, residue, pin holes or writing is a deal breaker. So bring me your 90/10 and gum stained stars!

Personally, I generally buy on eye appeal and one of the biggest components, if not the biggest for me, is centering. I will take a small flaw or two, but centering is what my eyes focus on. And of course with many cards I/we collect we have to take what we can find (hence the beater thread).

I really like cards with somewhat of a wow factor, so to speak...
They have to be paid up for but I don't think I have ever regretted it.

To me, bad centering or poor focus is a defect in the card at birth in the factory. I want the card as it was intended by design: centered and focused. In contrast, in terms of corners, the card was intended to be handled by young people; hence some corner wear has always felt totally acceptable to me.

As others have already stated superior color and registration is key when I'm looking for a card.

In regards to centering, its very important to me as well. Although I have a little bit of tolerance when it comes to top to bottom centering, side to side centering must be close to near perfect.

I judge a card on five broad categories. The following is my order of preference:

Print Quality - (Registration/focus/color, etc.)
Surface - (how clean and free from damage are the surfaces)
Centering
Edges
Corners

Notable is the fact that extreme examples of extremely poor centering or print quality appeal to me, too. I enjoy seeing two (or more) images on the same card.

Depends on the series. If it’s a series that is near impossible to find a card of, or if it’s “that” player, I am willing to overlook things that I would not overlook in a more prevalent card or series. Here’s an example of a card I’m just happy to have one, regardless of it’s flaws:

Come join me over on the dark side. Some may call them off-center, while others might call them miscut. I just call them cards.

WARNING! Do not look at the below cards if you know it will spoil your day.

Brian

I got a little, "dark side" in me as well.
Sometimes, it's just for the special personality of the thang!
Ben

https://www.net54baseball.com/pictur...ictureid=33194

https://www.net54baseball.com/pictur...ictureid=33193

For me, it's:

centering >>> surface/registration > edges > corners

I like centered cards, but how much it matters really depends on all other attributes of a card, particularly its beauty and registration. I find lots of eye appeal in some cards that aren’t perfectly centered. Creases however always disturb me, and i prefer off-center with great registration to creased, weathered and well-centered. Here are a few cards which i cherish despite the fact that they arent centered better (every thread needs some cards!):

My opinion will not be revealed here. Who cares?

Everyone has an opinion and is entitled to it. If centering was all that mattered, we would not need TPGs so I guess that's a good thing.

Perhaps interestingly, the market has clearly determined that the TPGs don't accurately value centering when assigning grades, assuming grades *should* correlate to sale prices.

A somewhat well-centered 51 Mantle in a PSA 4 sold for $48k last night on PWCC. Off-centered copies go for around $20k right now.

I was watching that one as well. However the various factors we've all noted in this thread come together to create eye appeal, if that eye appeal is there relative to examples in the same and higher grades, the buyers/collectors will certainly bid accordingly these days. In this respect, despite a lot of the... let's just say potentially annoying aspects of the hobby these days, it seems that the concept of "buying the card, not the holder" is as strong or stronger than it has ever been.

It’s important, but not everything. For me, I care much more about L to R than I do T to B.

For me it is a combination of things.

First is availability. I like cards that are a little more rare and I cannot control when the card becomes available and as a result I then need to decide if the card available is something I want/need/ cannot wait for the next one.
Second is eye appeal specifically the front is the priority over the back
Third is center and how it’s borders look
Fourth is what I can afford for what I am trying to purchase

As a centering guy I would still love that CJ Joe— the image is so crisp and the color so bold, it just "pops" and I don't even notice the centering.

Leon, beefy borders on that red Cy. And always been a fan of that Ted Williams; if not mistaken you landed that on the BST board? Exceptional and rare centering for that card.

For PreWW2 cards, centering is not much of a consideration. When being picky, good registration and great color are the two qualities that are at the top of my list, and I definitely dislike any surface damage/creasing etc. to the player's face. These E90-1 cards are good examples of what would certainly pass my physical exam, centered or not.

Brian

+1

Depends on the era.

564. Centerrifical Force
The way your eyes immediately tell you if a card is rightfully centered enough for you personally, independent of what other collectors or TPGs may think.

Seemingly 90% of the graded cards (post-war) I buy have OC qualifiers, but the vast majority of those are ones than no 'normal' collector would've called off-centered in the days before TPGs ruined (:rolleyes:) everything. If a card looks decently centered enough to my eye, and I can get it at a low price, I jump.
(All of this is thrown out the window with the 1972 Topps set, though, because I hope to assemble a nice one as close to perfectly centered as possible.)

Those are WAY better than centered cards. Centering is by far the least important to me, unless I am selling it.:)

I need a solid image and registration for Prewar. Centering would come next. Some staining and creasing can give a Prewar card some character in my opinion. For Postwar, centering definitely comes first. Many Prewar are rare in general, but Postwar with perfect centering are rare too, which I’d need in buying a high priced Postwar card.


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Centering in my PC is pretty important to me. Just because I like them to look the best they can for my favorite players.

But on set builds I love having lots of different cuts and variation. It's more fun to look at to me. I like the natural look of how cards would've come out of a pack for one kid vs another back in the day.

It's everything for me

100% agree with this.

It depend on the card for me. 50's to 70's I Chase centering. The print quality is typically decent for those years and the cards are more numerous than people realize. What separates the cards in collectability and makes them special is often times centering. Finding a perfectly centered 1979 Ozzie Smith sets it apart from the high volume of off centered cards. Prior to 1950 I really go after print quality and color over centering.

The single most important aspect of the card to me.

I won’t even open an auction with a an OC qualifier in the description and in well over several hundred thousand cards I don’t believe I own a single graded card with a OC qualifier.

Here’s the odd part, I am an error collector though, so if a very significant amount of the card next to the subject is showing I will pay a premium. It makes no sense and I am very comfortable with that.

Centering is important to me mainly because it has recently become important to other collectors. It didn't used to be that important.

We kids who grew up with '70s and '80s Topps realized that when you busted a pack you would get a certain fraction of cards that were off-centered or even miscut. No big deal. The off-centered cards were just as valuable as the 50-50 ones.

Fast forward. Centering has become a huge issue.

I like side to side centering to be as good as possible but it depends on how tough the card is to find. The rarer the item is on my want list the more tolerable I am but still with the hopes of upgrading later.

Here are some of my best centered examples

https://photos.imageevent.com/joejo2...ize/img898.jpg
https://photos.imageevent.com/joejo2...ize/img665.jpg
https://photos.imageevent.com/joejo2...ize/img664.jpg
https://photos.imageevent.com/joejo2...ize/img699.jpg
https://photos.imageevent.com/joejo2...ize/img701.jpg
https://photos.imageevent.com/joejo2...1231%20_2_.jpg
https://photos.imageevent.com/joejo2...ize/img896.jpg
https://photos.imageevent.com/joejo2...ize/img677.jpg
https://photos.imageevent.com/joejo2...ize/img724.jpg


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I don't really worry much about condition on its own, especially centering.

To me it's the overall look, combined with the price.
A worn card I like priced at a worn card price (Or less if I'm lucky) is fine. A worn card at a premium price? not for me.

I like the cut of your jib.....
 

[QUOTE=J

Here’s the odd part, I am an error collector though, so if a very significant amount of the card next to the subject is showing I will pay a premium. It makes no sense and I am very comfortable with that.[/QUOTE]

http://imagehost.vendio.com/a/204295...2NIPPY_NEW.JPG


....we need to talk .......


....

I pay more for a card with terrible centering.

I'm in the opposite camp as centering isn't that important to me as long as the card isn't horribly miscut. I prefer the card to look more "pack fresh" than centered, and I always hope to pick up good deals where some collectors reject the card because it's too off-centered for them. Here are a couple of examples.

nice looking Eastern Exhibit Ruth. Great Card

A quickly emerging theme here seems to be that centering is a priority if the goal is resale.

If your goal is collecting then off center can be a good opportunity to score a deal on a better card.

From what I see above it could be opposite. I am pretty sure no cards in this thread are for sale. I am way more tolerant in buying cards, less than perfectly centered, for resale....because of the responses above ..

.

For me, centering is the one trait of a card that I get hung up on for whatever reason. With that said, I know some sets just seem to have a knack for not being centered so I just try and get the best looking one I can get.

Centering is the number one most important factor when I buy cards. This is part of the reason why I've never been much of a set collector as it's painstakingly tough to pull together 300+ cards with 55/45 or better centering for a vintage set.

I'm quite sure at this point that the forum's opinion on centering is a key factor for the "card doctors'" financial success in cahoots with the TPGs.

Crack, snip, snip and resubmit.


Footnote: I believe this is the first time I have ever used or seen '" used consecutively in the same sentence

+1 must be a Brian thing....

I mainly collect prewar, and no 1 for me is surface, especially dirt. Tons of prewar cards are just direty (stained, gum, tobacco, thrown in a sand box).

That trumps all other things.

I guess it is a matter of preference. I like the stains on my cards (as long as it is not overdone where it covers the main part). I think it adds character to it like the caramel from the CJ boxes on the cards like this or a little dirt it kind of like having a little patina on a classic car

70/30 or better is plenty good, especially for the time when manufacturing tolerances weren't so strict. If I wanted to put hundreds of dollars on whether something was 50.4/49.6 or 50.3/49.7, I'd get into rare stamps.

I like good centering if I can get it, but I like the card to look as close to "pack fresh" as possible. I understand why there is sometimes a premium on centered cards, but centering isn't the most important thing to me when deciding on what card to purchase.

+1

For me it really depends on the set and some times on the particular card. I care more about centering on T205s than on 1933 Goudeys for example (different shape, white border), and image color/clarity is always by far the most important thing for me. When buying my 1951 Mays (rookie card of my favorite player), I wanted to make sure there were no print defects (really hard on that card), no wax stains, and great color and registration. Had to give up a little on centering to get it, but I still love this card:

Way down the list for me. I like cards that are really hard to find, so when I'm able to get a shot at them, I'm not too picky about condition. Pinholes, missing pieces and paper loss bug me, but centering doesn't. It's always nice when I find one and it has nice centering though.

Jeremy - That's a gorgeous Mays.
I've always felt that if a card is going to be OC that when the player faces the wide border side in the image it fairs better on eye appeal then when he faces the narrow border side.
Examine a few card scans you see and test that for yourself.
The Mays, for instance seems right.
RayB

Couldn't agree more. :)

centered raw card...no mistaking that puppy for an E99! If I erase it, it won't get a "mk" LOL...although, without having it in hand, that could be one of those old, lead pencil marks that won't come off :(
.

https://luckeycards.com/pe99melchoir.jpg

Centering is everything to me. I would buy a graded 8 card, perfectly centered, over a graded 10 card, slightly off-center. I have passed up on many cards due to not perfect centering. It's a sickness!

Out of curiosity, how many pre-war PSA 10s have you passed up due to centering?

I’m not a vintage card collector. I did own some 50’s, 60’s, and 70’s, but after joining the Navy in 1978, I stopped collecting for a while. I wasn’t that picky about condition back then. Got back into card collecting again with more modern day players of the 80’s and thereafter. That’s when I started to get obsessed with wanting perfectly centered cards. I then got away from cards and been only a game used memorabilia collector for the past 15 years.

Leon, it is evident your head bobbing E99 floats quite contently in a sea of purple center-ness.

Brian

How important is centering to you
 

I will admit to biting hard on the centering trend when I first re-entered the hobby as an adult in my late 30's. But it seems I've lost more and more interest in that with every passing year. I've always been an image / focus / print quality person first and foremost, and at some point decided to quit trying to do everything. Also, the realization I keep going back to is that as a kid when I first discovered vintage cards - I couldn't have given less of a flip about centering. I didn't even know what it was at first. My first old card that I really cared about was a super sharp '66 Koufax that my mom paid about $15 or so for I'm guessing in about 1988. A few years back, I found a picture from my childhood that had my copy of that card in it, and I was shocked at how OC the card was left to right. Virtually zero left border, yet I never would have been able to tell you that during the time that I owned that copy. It wasn't something that even registered for me.

Increasingly as the hobby has become more "professional", and we find ourselves disillusioned with card doctors and graders and those who would pull the wool over our eyes, to me a poorly centered or miscut card just offers some additional possible visible authenticity protection that you don't have to get from a TPG or in some other fashion. All of the "Well, that's not how it was supposed to look..." logic to me is suspect at best; when did Topps or anyone else ever claim that cards were supposed to be a perfect 50/50 all the way around? They didn't. People speak of poor "quality control" as if it was even a thing for cards that were produced before 1980.

So my conclusion here is for me personally, but based on the direction that I think cognitive bias and groupthink have kind of led us down the road of expecting these things, cardboard ephemera, in many cases to be something they were never intended to be. Don't get me wrong, each unto his own. I love a dead-nuts centered card as much as the next guy - they are beautiful. If that is your thing, then more power to you. I just don't inherently hate the ones that didn't leave the factory that way and thusly can often be had for large bargains today as long as I still find them marginally attractive. As I am also interested in the "how" of card production - I understand OC / MC cards, and in some weird way I guess I have come to appreciate them.

Both of these cards probably set me back less than a third of the amount they would have cost raw had they been well centered. Both have good color and image quality. Works for me. Also, I love that you can see a sliver of the printer's mark that was on the sheet on the right side of the Reggie:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...36a3d9bf0a.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...ee220c662e.jpg

I think with prices of vintage recently, a lot of people are reevaluating what they desire. I tend to still favor centering, but if I get a good deal on a card with "bad" centering and amazing registration for a good price, I will go for it. At this point with prices crashing on modern and vintage continuing to climb in many cases, I am just going for the best bang for the buck.

Saying that though, my "perfect" card is a PSA/SGC 3 to 5 range card that has great centering, great registration and some rounded corners or edge issues. I really prefer slight rounding of corners for pre-1960 cards with all the card doctors in the hobby. I know there are other ways to doctor a card, but I feel a lot safer avoiding this higher graded vintage. Plus, it gives the card character. Don't like creases, but a few surface wrinkles are ok with me. I have been getting those as I age as well. ;)

doesn't have to be dead centered
 

IF other attributes of the card are strong I can forgive some centering. Soft corners don't bother me too much either. Definitely not registry plays :cool:
.

Anything with a pop 20 of less I could care less about centering. Pop under a 100 it matters somewhat. Pop over a 100 centering is everything as it differentiates cards all in the same condition.

Yes, for the more common cards in my collection, I really want them to be well centered. And agree on the numbers above otherwise....
.

If it is something readily available and inexpensive, I want it fairly well centered. If hard to find and/or expensive, I'll take what I can get.

Centering? You Betcha!

Attachment 516903

Centering is off just a touch. Nice cards!

On my T206s I prefer centering with bigger top borders...

https://luckeycards.com/t206duffy.jpg