Ebays new certification dealio
 

I won this raw card on eBay a few weeks ago and it went through their new certification program. Probably added a week or two to my delivery. I see this as an interim step whereas the ultimate owner of this card will likely send it to the slabbed.

Last thing I want is a new irregularly sized case that I need to figure out how to store with the rest of my collection.

So what was the actual cause of the week or two in delayed delivery?


Just throw it in the garbage like any other unwanted shipping materials, problem solved.

Wow. Not if, but when Ebay starts charging for this service, I’ll be curious to see how much. That packaging cant be cheap, let alone the service.

Apparently ebay doesn't hire anyone it is a contracted job. Some bs no name grading company has the contract. I called about a position and was given that info.

i assume was the delay was the process of certifying the card, ben.

My point is they put the card in a cardsaver with a sticker ensuring the authentication. I don't store any of my cards in card savers? Thy're flimsy and large. So I remove it and the authentication is naught?

I'm guessing at some point they may offer a slab for a fee...This is kinda what I thought I was going to get.

Will ebay eventually start slabbing these cards? I would be concerned to send an Ebay authenticated card to PSA to be slabbed and PSA disagrees.

The tracking will show if it was the USPS or the authentication.

A little different but the same. They have been doing it for FREE with sneakers for easily over a year. They put this silly button thing on sneakers. I just cut them off and throw them in the garbage as I wear them. The sealed card saver can also easily be opened and thrown away. I can't imagine it adds any value.

Does Ebay accept it's own auhentication? Or if you sell it in their holder does it have to go through them all over again?

And if they do, how long before fakes start turning up (Assuming they haven't already.

No, it has to go through authentication again.

There is already a thread about this vary subject--eBay's authenticity guarantee and how the cards are sent back to the buyer.

I assume had this card been available two months ago you would have bought it? At that time it would not have gone through the process of authentication, so as was suggested, toss the packaging.

Not sure I see the problem.

Isn't CSG, the contracted authenticator, actually owned/backed by the same parent company that also owns and operates NGC, PMG, and CGC, the supposed largest coin, paper money, and comic book grading services in the world? Because if so, I wouldn't consider CSG as a "BS no-name grading company", not with that kind of backing/experience/ownership behind them. In fact, the brilliant move to align themselves with the largest online card selling platform in the world is going to give them almost instant recognition, credibility, and acceptance throughout the sports card hobby world. And I specifically used the word "almost" because of people like yourself.

CSG is definitely not some fly-by-night outfit operating out of someone's garage. And so far as I've heard, their pricing and services are so far much better/faster than their biggest competitor that it isn't even close. They are of course going to be playing catch-up to PSA, SGC, and Beckett, but with their grading business experience and obvious business savvy, as demonstrated by their deal with Ebay, they may be catching up a lot faster than you think. I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually started their own Registry as well.

Trust me, even though you may not be well acquainted with and care much about CSG, I'd bet my last dollar that Nat Turner and his fellow investors in Collectors Universe/PSA know exactly who and what CSG is and what they represent, and care very much about all that.

Andrew dude, you need to do better research.

And how could you have missed the 100 threads on here about CSG?

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I never doubted the authenticity of this card. My point is...to me this service was useless. To many...it may give them piece of mind prior to sending it to some other TPG'er.

But as has been stated...there will likely be conflicting opinions when another set of eyes gives their opinion...then what?

Sorry I didn't see the other thread and thought some might like to see the packaging, etc.


To me...imo ebay would be better off offering some type of slab service.

Hey, I'm all for it if it can help keep all these clowns selling fake cards from ripping off people buying on Ebay. These people are the future of the hobby, and they may leave the hobby if they get taken advantage of when they try to purchase raw cards. I think it's a logical step to try to avoid fraud in a hobby that has had too many rip-off artists taking advantage of new collectors.

Given that it's only on high-dollar cards, on which they're already making $60+ in fees, they can easily afford the $10 or so (likely less) that this is costing them.

+1

for sure

But Pete, don't forget that you, I, and others on Net54 are usually way more savvy and experienced in regards to sports cards and what are, or are not, fakes. Ebay isn't doing this for us, they're doing it for the potential millions of new customers that don't know squat about cards, but would maybe like to get involved as they keep hearing and reading more and more about the rising interest (and value/prices) of cards.

One of the original ideas behind TPGs and slabbing cards was to protect online buyers from getting ripped off with fakes. But with the current costs and times it takes with some TPGs to currently get cards graded, it has already been discussed how when it at least comes to lower/mid-grade commons and cards in poor shape, not many people are as likely going to continue to waste the time and money to get such cards fully graded and slabbed anymore if it doesn't result in more profit for a seller. Ebay's authentication program at least gives all these potentially new and inexperienced customers a safe way to still buy ungraded, lower priced cards, and yet feel protected from getting ripped off.

And it may actually generate more revenue for Ebay and some sellers. Think about it, if you're willing to bid $450-$475 on a raw card you maybe aren't 100% certain is legit, why not bump up your bid to $500 to make sure it goes into the raw card authentication protocol. Spending an extra $25-$50 to ensure you are getting a legit card is way better to some than taking a chance they'll lose $450-$475 on what later on may turn out to be an unauthentic card.

And Ebay is not stupid, and if anything, is extremely business savvy. I'm confident they've run all kinds of projections and studies to weigh the costs and efforts of starting up this authentication process and determining that offering it for free, at least initially, will end up being more profitable for them in some manner over the long run. In fact, the awfully quick lowering of this authentication threshold from $750 down to $500 makes me even more confident that Ebay has done an extreme amount of research on this topic. Enough to monitor it very closely and make such a dramatic change to the program right after starting it and getting initial feedback to the overall program.

We'll see how good a job Ebay did in projecting the outcome from putting this in place as time goes by, and what their next move(s) is.

Great points, Bob. The more I hear people discuss this initiative, the more I start to warm up to it. I do think Eddie Plank deserves better than a card saver, though!

LOL

Matthew,

At the end of the day, Ebay doesn't really care what or how you, I, or anyone else feels or thinks about all this. All they really care about is what will ultimately make them the most money.

Yes to most of us the service is useless but ebay is doing it for themselves and making it seem like they are doing it for us. I would never pay for it as a buyer nor as a seller.

And I agree, at that moment in time that is the way the card is seen. We have all seen countless examples of cards broken out resubmitted to the same or different grading company and the grade is entirely different.

Would be a "great" experiment to take a card and submit it repeatedly to each grading service. Assuming the card does not get damaged my guess is that there would be next to no consistency.

If eBay were to buy CCG, parent co to CSG, I could see a time where they would require cards to be graded (at least over a certain value) before they can be listed.

They do, although quite sparse at the moment. But that is to be expected in these early days for them.
https://www.csgcards.com/registry/

Thanks Bob, did not know they had already set one up. Figured they would though. If there's anyone that looks like they can possibly give PSA a run for their money, it's them. But to do that, they know they'd eventually need a registry to compete. Their hooking up with Ebay as its new card authentication provider is a huge plus for them. And if that program works out well, I can see in the future where they may just expand their service so that if someone who buys a raw card off Ebay wants, they may not just authenticate it, but grade and slab it for the new owner as well. That would at least save the new owner some time, by them not having to wait for the arrival of their new card so they can turn around and send it right back out to a different TPG for grading. Their raw card purchased off Ebay will show up in their mailbox fully graded already. And they'd also save on postage by not having to send their newly purchased card back and forth to a different TPG for grading. You never know.

So as a raw T206 set builder, when I make an Ebay purchase my card will now be shipped to someone I don't know, opened and handled by that same someone, to be repackaged and shipped out again? Yeah, what could go wrong there?

I give up. What?

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Maybe they could make everyone happy (although I doubt that's possible) and make the authentication service available as an option for purchases above a certain price instead of requiring it. Then the buyer can decide if they want to take their chance with their own judgement of a card or get another opinion by someone who can actually look at the card in person.

I like the idea.

To me,it adds a level of protection for the buyer..
Simply put, the physical item will have to be shipped and not some phantom package where it becomes one word vs another..
Of course with all the buyer protection that is probably a moot point.

Sold a 1928 Fro Joy crack fielder #6.

It went to CSG, authenticated and sent to buyer in the authentication packaging.

Buyer sent it back to CSG for grading (they don’t yet have this size holder), so the card was returned to him “service unavailable”.

He then filed a claim with Ebay that the card didn’t match the description and photos and is returning the Ruth.

“This card was sent to CSG in their own box and they refused to authenticate the card! CSG and Ebay have created an issue here. Not my fault and not the seller s fault. I called up and they said they do NOT authenticate Froyo cards. So now I have a card that cannot be authenticated.”

Again, they don’t have that size holder.


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.

And for FYI on how this process works:

When the buyer wants to return the card after it has been inspected and deemed authentic and as described by CGS, the buyer mails the card back to CGS so they can determine it is in the same condition as when it was sold before mailing it back to the seller. It has been handled by multiple people, including the buyer, who sent it back to CGS for grading. This will be the 3rd time CGS will have received the card.

And so you know, even when CGS determines the card is authentic and as described, the buyer can still return citing not as described.



.

Disregard. You already answered my question above.

Cluster, I'd like to introduce you to F**k. F**k, meet Cluster.

The buyer is a big seller on there. ��

Just went to close my store subscription; they want an early cancellation fee of $73.16!

that sucks...all of it...so i guess beckett is the only one grading fro joys at the moment. I'm pretty sure I looked on the csg site and fro joys WERE NOT listed as cards THEY DO NOT GRADE?

I was planning on sending them some myself?

They don’t yet have tall boy holders, which I’m assuming is the reason. Thanks




.

Personally I would love to see this process operate as you have described. Your idea of "buy raw and receive it slabbed" would make great sense on several levels, but especially for us collectors up in Canada. To get a card shipped to us, then sent back to get graded, we have to deal with customs and charges twice. I( and other Canadian collectors) would love to cut that down by half.

Regardless, the idea of getting a slabbed card back is appealing.

FWIW, I do look at some of the hockey cards on PWCC (I know, boo, hiss), and tonight I saw more CSG graded hockey cards than I've ever seen. Here s hoping someone can take on PWCC, although I suspect with their new warehouse, PSA will eventually be slabbing more cards than ever.

When I made that observation about how such a service would save the buyer time and shipping costs, I forgot about how much more beneficial that would be for you guys North of the border. And it would likely apply to any other international sales as well.

I'm thinking CSG and Ebay have been talking and planning together for a lot longer than we may have expected. And if CSG can really get their Registry going, and keep their lower grading costs and much faster turnaround times than PSA in place, I can see a lot of collectors really start using them. The cost and time savings alone is huge, but think of this. A newer collector that likes the Registry idea, and wants to get into it, doesn't have to compete against all the big time collections on PSA. In other words, someone starting out right now could realistically have a top ten rated set on CSG's registry, whereas, they may not be able to even crack the top 25 or 50, or even more, sets on PSA's registry. And I sincerely doubt anyone on PSA's Registry is going to suddenly look to cross any sets over to CSG.

Is a registry for CSG really possible or practical? Are there enough raw, high grade vintage cards from enough sets still out there for CSG to grade so that multiple people would have a realistic chance to put together sets for a registry?

That's not a problem, there are more high grade vintage cards showing up every day.

I just had a vintage card purchase fail eBay's authentication process. The card has a very large and obvious wax stain on the back too. Which the seller clearly shows and mentions. It also has a very slight diamond cut to it, which is common with these. It's definitely not a fake card. This should be interesting.

No. Definitely not.

It reminds me of when Google tried to compete with Facebook by creating a social media Google+ network. Nobody used it because everyone they knew and wanted to interact with was using Facebook. And despite Google having nearly endless capital to promote the project and massive name recognition already, it was doomed to fail right from the start.

I wonder if that gives everyone the all clear to complete the transaction off eBay? Or do you have an option to waive the "authentication"?

It has to be authentic and as described by the seller, so that doesn’t necessarily mean they thought it was fake. It’d be informative to have a link to the listing, snowman, if you don’t mind.



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Ya, I was thinking it might be because the seller listed it as EX+ condition? I don't know, but if the card looked like it does in the photos, then it should have passed authentication. Maybe he sent a different card on accident? Or maybe there was a hidden crease that wasn't disclosed? Who knows. But the seller has good feedback and the card in the photos is definitely an authentic card.

My main question is how much is this service going to eventually cost?
As for Fro Joys, anyone who wants to sell one please PM me. I should be able to tell and make an offer. It's not rocket science. That said I have seen a card that even one of the best graders, imo, couldn't tell. Then it's a pass, unfortunately. I have never seen him not be able to tell for sure. He's a hobby friend, the head grader at CGS now.... and a longtime member of the forum....
ps...this card is real.
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Hey Leon, the Fro Joy #6 I mentioned is real. CSG agreed. I’ll put up some scans tonight

Here's the Fro Joy Ruth I sold and the pictures the buyer sent after he sent it back to them to find they didn't have tall boy holders.


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...641368d1_c.jpg1928 Fro Joy 06 (A) by Greg Martin, on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...558c6262_c.jpgUntitled by Greg Martin, on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...63698b45_c.jpgUntitled by Greg Martin, on Flickr


.

Any thoughts as to why this listing doesn't indicate it will go through authentication? I thought it was now required for cards above $500.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/26563221407...AAAOSwcpViTVBs

And not just that card, didn’t see it applicable to any of his other listings either. Didn’t see a single off-center 50s-60s topps card.

Maybe because cigar box is in the title?

From the seller's item description, certain parts bolded by me for emphasis (and I left the sellers' typos as-is):

"RETURN POLICY: My opinion of grade is exactly that..My opinion.. I do not warrnt or in any way represent what grade a third party grading company will assign....I do, however, warrant that all my cards are authentic and unaltered, and will receive a numeric grade if sent in to a reputable grading company. If any card purchased does not receive a numeric grade, I will issue a full refund as well as a $100 rembursement in the unlikely event a card is deemed altered or not authentic.. Best guarantee in the business..You are more thn welcome to return card within 3 days of receipt. However, once sent in for grading, all sales are final, regardless of grade...."

I was wondering if it had anything to do with the listing having a best offer option so that even though the initial starting bid was over the Ebay authentication threshold amount, it could still go and be sold for under the threshold. Just a pure guess on my part.

That's possible. However, I was commenting on the seller's contradictory return policy:

If you send in the card and it doesn't receive a numeric grade, they will issue a refund.

However, once you send the card for grading, all sales are final...regardless of grade.

Clear as mud, no?

Yup, good point Eric. LOL

I didn't think the seller's return policy had anything to do with requiring the authentication process to be required. My understanding was any card selling over a certain price (I think $500 currently) had to be authenticated.

Bob's comment about the Best Offer option being there to get around it also doesn't seem to make sense since there should be an easy way to set things up to require authentication based on the listed price but then remove it if the selling price went below the threshold. Otherwise, that seems like a real easy way to get around the authentication.

Oh, I agree. I was just commenting on something asinine in the listing. Leaving aside the eBay authentication for a moment, it would give some prospective buyers a moment of pause and/or a reason to seek clarification from the seller.

Didn't mean to derail the thread. Carry on. :)

Maybe this is the reason. Could having box in the title make it appear to be more than a single card so authentication is not required? If so, seems like eBay could do a better job than that at identifying single cards compared to listings with multiple cards.

Don't disagree. As I previously stated, my comment was a pure guess on my part.

Seems like they are trying to skirt the rules. They seller knows and it probably sees it as a lot rather than a single card. Probably worried about it going through authentication and not passing I suspect.

This seller has been discussed earlier this year on the forum:

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?p=2182085

Brian

I just received an authenticated card but contrary to the insert, no sticker or QR code on the back of the cardsaver.

That defeats the whole purpose of the program, no?

I wonder how common this is.

It's pretty funny actually.

First - I admit I haven't read everyone's responses here - so I apologize if I am being pointlessly redundant, but this seems like it's an absolutely horrible idea. I do agree with it in reference to trying to protect prospective entrants into the industry - but feel this may provide more professional fraud opportunities, utilizing eBay as a shield.

I sent a card a couple months ago, and realized it was being shipped to some completely different address for authentication.

Here is one of my main worries - it's only going to increase fraud with regard to the alteration of cards, and then eBay will have to deal with that - which they won't.

If eBay is only authenticating, then what will stop people from utilizing eBay as an intermediary to "unknowingly" commit fraud by trimming a card and calling it "NM-MT+ or better!" - it then gets "authenticated" and confirmed as an authentic card. Will contracted entity (CSG) be charged with determining if the card has been altered as well, or just authenticity? If they are, then essentially they are 95% the way towards grading the card too. What happens if the card is then submitted to SGC, PSA, or heck, CSG, and it comes back "Authentic, but altered".

Completely agree regarding the registry. It's baffling to me that SGC hasn't gone all-in on a registry. It is 100% what allowed PSA to just get out to what may be an insurmountable lead. Competition wins - always.

I thought that part of the process was to determine if the card has been altered, but it doesn't explicitly say that if you read all the information provided on eBay. Also, the price is now down to cards that sell for $350 and higher. Some info from the FAQs on eBay is below.

What happens at the authenticator?
After the authentication facility receives the card, the authenticator first confirms the item and collateral materials are consistent with the listing title, description, and images. Then they will perform a multi-point authentication inspection. Finally, the card will receive a tamper-proof sticker sealing the packaging and certifying that the card is authentic. The card also receives a QR code. Scan it with your mobile device to learn more about your card’s authentication journey.

What if the item does not pass inspection?
If the authenticator cannot verify the item’s authenticity or if the item is not consistent with its listing, you will be issued a full refund to your original payment method.

Yes, they are verifying the card is unaltered, to the best of their ability. They are also confirming it matches the listing description. So if the card is listed as NM-MT+ and it's trimmed or lower grade and CSG notices it, they'll reject the sale. I've seen it happen as posted on a couple of different message boards.

Some people who bought would still like the card, even if CSG thinks it's only NM. Some people would like rare cards even if they're altered, depending on what they paid. But in order to streamline their process, they don't contact the buyer with their findings, just cancel the sale unilaterally.

But then, no authenticator is perfect, and some still get "authenticated" even though the year of the card in the listing is 15 years away from accurate.