This is what's wrong with the average ebay buyer
 

This is why I do not believe anything an eBay buyer tells me:

________made you an offer 6 Nov 2021 at 5:28:20pm PDT
Offer Price:
$300.00 ( 1 x $300.00 )
Buyer's Message:
Best i can do , if it helps, either way thanks.

_______made you an offer 6 Nov 2021 at 6:19:05pm PDT
Offer Price:
$325.00 ( 1 x $325.00 )
Offer Declined6 Nov 2021 at 5:28:20pm PDT

_______made you an offer6 Nov 2021 at 6:19:16pm PDT
Offer Price:
$351.00 ( 1 x $351.00 )

So the best he can do is $300...until fifty minutes later? What changed? Perhaps a sudden inheritance? Maybe found some change in the couch cushions?

And why do these idiots think I care what "the best [they] can do is" anyway? That's a stupid argument. "Yeah, the best I can do is to get to work at 10:00, boss. Whaddaya mean I'm fired?"

The outright lying on eBay has gotten much worse with the hobby boom. Lots of newbies who have no connection with the hobby and no compunctions about flat-out lying to get what they want. That, plus they do not know how to read or simply do not bother. I had one newbie order then cancel on 20+ cards because he was pissed at what eBay's Global Shipping charged him. He told me what he thought was reasonable and since it was a profitable enough sale I offered him a refund to that cost but he still reneged. Another guy thought he was buying a dozen $10 cards for $10 just because they were depicted in a scan, despite the listing stating that he is bidding on one card. His excuse was that he didn't read the description...combined with the accusation that I was doing something deceptive. Yeah, when I don't read something I always blame it on someone else: "Why no, officer, I did not read that no parking sign...but had I read it I KNOW it would have been deceptively worded."

Now, all of you kids get off my lawn!

They say best I can do. They mean best I want to do.

That is not a phenomena unique to ebay.

I know, but I was trying to stay on-topic.

Ninety five percent (yes, 95%) of the messages I receive from other ebayers contain a question that is explicitly answered within the listing. When my reply contains "As mentioned in the listing....." the general response is "I just didn't read the listing"????

ebay
 

There are plenty of horrid sellers on ebay, who keep those buyers company.
The problems with ebay are parallel to those of highway driving: it's popular,
but you have to hop on with a bunch of idiots who ruin the experience.

Trent King

Welcome to the world of EBay

This is also why some sellers will charge over market value.

Because many uneducated collectors/investors will happily pay it.

I've bought and sold on ebay, many times over the years. Perhaps the recent card boom has brought out a crappy new crop of buyers. But over the past 20 years, I would say there are a lot more bad sellers than buyers.

So many (countless) sellers hide flaws, lie about condition and conveniently leave things out of their pictures and descriptions. And some of their packaging/shipping methods defy all logic.

On the flip-side, I can't recall ever having a buyer refuse to pay, make a return, or renege on a transaction. Just lucky, I suppose.

ebay continued
 

Mark (Perez Fan)- You are spot on. A couple weeks ago, I messaged an
ebay seller about a raw 52 Bowman Don Newcombe. We hadn't done
past business, so I introduced myself and asked if there were any creases
his photo didn't show, and to expand on the flaws/weaknesses of the card.
I was as polite as could be and told him I liked his card... so, he emailed
back and flatly stated he "didn't want to be held accountable" for any detail
about his card! He also made excuses (poor eyesight) about not being able
to answer very basic questions, and flatly refused to answer. THIS is why I
rarely do business on that site. Trent King

Uhhhh... I think you might want to reevaluate your definition of "market value"?

This ^^^

So many bad sellers. The annoying thing now is that eBay removes valid negative feedback now. Negative feedback rarely sticks in eBay anymore. They realized that if they just delete all the negative feedback that buyers have more confidence in making purchases on eBay. I had a seller list a card as mint condition that showed up with no less than 3 creases on it. Seller fought me and refused to accept a return. EBay customer service got involved forced him to accept a return. So I shipped it back. Tracking showed delivered but eBay's system had a glitch that wouldn't connect the tracking status to the case number, so seller tried again to keep both my money AND the card now. Had to prove to ebay that it was delivered weeks later after he refused to refund. Let negative feedback. Poof, it was gone a few days later. Dude has 100% positive feedback now despite being the shit of the earth. This is happening in the vast majority of cases now. Ebay just removes negative feedback.

Hi

I meant some sellers will charge over market value and some buyers will buy it over the current market value

Caveat - this was not on a card

I had a seller just last week accept my offer on a new in box item last week.

I paid and the following day they apologized and said the item isn't available because they just tested the last one they had and it doesn't work.
I could wait 15-20 days for new stock or get a refund.

I said I'd wait (since it was a Christmas gift so no rush) but didn't tell them that.
But I also asked why they tested an item that was new in original sealed box?

No answer on the testing
The next day its marked as shipped without tracking.
I asked what changed and they said they have to mark it because ebay asks them to ship everyday.

Long story short...this crap is much worse than trying to get a deal as a buyer in my opinion.
After a few days I requested a refund today, we will see where this mess goes from here.


Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

I've been selling vinyl records on eBay. While slightly different than sports cards, the similarities with listings/customer interactions/sales are abundant.

They're described accurately, graded conservatively, and listed with numerous (clear, not blurry) pictures.

I am responsive to messages and communicate professionally.

The records are packaged securely and shipped the next business day - without exception.

Perhaps not coincidentally, I have nearly zero issues with any of my transactions.

Wish there were more sellers like you, Eric...

There are, of course more good sellers than bad. But the bad ones tend to stick in your memory bank a lot longer, haha.

Needless to say, it shouldn't be nearly as difficult as they make it.

Most basic rule of negotiating is that when you tell the other side "this is my best and final" or "this is as good as I can do" you don't back off that, or you lose 100% of your credibility.

On ebay I've done pretty well with prewar. Modern cards? The wild west. Buyers are scammers and people pulling crap I've seen 100 times before. I assume young guys wheeling and dealing. I laugh at their transparent hijinks and silly stunts. Refuse to let them aggravate me. At the first sniff of trouble we are done. I'd rather sell my card tp an honorable person for less.

Average buyer?
 

No, the average buyer is not the way that you portray them. I have sold to over 1000 eBay buyers in the past year, and 99% of are smooth transactions, with no problems. No matter what you do or where you sell, there will always be the 1% who are losers, but the overwhelming % of them are good people.

If eBay buyers are shit, stop selling on EBay. Did you counter to his first offer?
I’ve had such great experiences with sellers on eBay, we’ve even kept I. Touch after the transaction. Sellers and buyers wrap their egos in their cards and negotiations, it’s just a financial transaction for gawds sake.

Exactly, don’t like eBay’s terms? Get off eBay.

I would have to agree with Adam. I think in the last 18 months I have experienced a higher percentage of buyers who have taken a little less than honest approach to negotiating. I assume it is because they feel they have to. Also encountered a lot more dudes with tudes. I think it is more a product of being virtual too much of the time since Covid.

I kinda agree about finalized transactions, but when you take into account potential buyers, they numbers skew significantly towards Adam.

Pre-smartphone, you clicked on the listing and everything was presented in front of you on your screen. Even if they had some janky HTML or longwinded shipping/return/feedback policy, you could get to the meat of it.

Now, mobile app is not as clear cut. MANY current "buyers" do exactly what savedfrommyspokes said. Click the title, don't read anything, and go directly to "Ask the Seller". This is the 'Offerup' or 'FB Marketplace' effect. Also add in the Amazon effect of getting it in 2 days (free ship, of course) AND no question returns.

I suggest that if you take into account the ridiculous questions, absurd offers, and requests to cancel deals, the ratio of negative interactions to good purchases is high.

And it is because of internet/online sellers like this that grading and TPGs became such a big deal. Except all the grading and TPGs did was create a whole new and different set of issues and problems. Wish there were more in-person shows and auctions to go to. Always liked being able to hold and examine something before I buy it. A huge part of the fun of collecting to me was going to flea markets, garage/estate sales, auctions, card shops, and such. Sitting at my desk perusing Ebay has never been as enjoyable, and never will be, especially when you never really know what you're getting till it finally shows up at your door.

"The outright lying on eBay"

Not saying that about buyers or sellers on eBay, but......

I agree with this. Personally, my attachment to a card is much stronger when I've acquired it in person. Often times, memories about the events surrounding a show or trip to the card shop become inextricably linked to the purchases.

Not once have I ever waxed nostalgic about, "that day when I opened the envelope..."

To the bold part, that is my experience also. We have sellers too lazy to put the correct picture up and they complain about the buyers.:rolleyes:

Sellers do the exact same thing. I've seen many say "thats the lowest I can go" then they end up going lower.

I guess thats Ebay's average seller too? :)

It's just such a stupid negotiating tactic. I always tell my clients never issue an ultimatum unless you are ready to back it up because otherwise you just destroy your credibility.

Epilogue: while this baboon tossed off trying to save a few bucks someone else bought the card for $420! Our peerless leader Leon once told me, quite perceptively, if you really want a card don't worry about paying a few bucks more for it than you'd like; I guess even a busted clock is right twice a day. I kid you, my friend...

Long term, I regret many things I didn't buy, and several things I sold, but my regrets for over-paying are very few and easily dismissed in comparison.

Not gonna lie, I've always thought listings like this are at least a little deceptive. If your auction photo and title don't clearly convey exactly what is being sold - that, is you're requiring people to obtain necessary information from the description - you're asking for trouble. And, for a lot of sellers (not saying you), they're hoping to prey on people who don't read descriptions because they expect titles and photos to be complete.

I disagree but then I remembered that half of all people are of below average intelligence (think about it), so best not to assume average intelligence. Any listings i post now that show a number of cheap cards but are selling them singly says "1 card ONLY" in the title. That way even an idiot reading the title and not bothering with the description will see it plain as day.

You're assuming the idiots can read and aren't just looking at the pretty pictures :)

+1 How much intelligence does it take to only show the item(s) actually for sale. Maybe those sellers are below average.;):rolleyes::D

Not intelligence, just time. Listing each cheap card singly is a huge time-suck.

I agree... sellers have always been a much bigger problem on eBay than buyers. The only people with experience on the platform who think buyers are the problem are sellers - and usually the shady ones. lol

Some people are better negotiators than others. Some enjoy the art of the deal, the back & forth. For some, it's a put off. When in person, it's obviously easier to read each other, but online you can't.

Some sellers price a bit higher, leaving room negotiation. They know that discussion of price goes down, not up.

You can't know everyone's situation. Was the person on a budget, but then convinced their spouse to spend a bit more? Maybe they went and studied comps and realized they'd have to go higher. Maybe they are just being deceitful. Who knows.

Def see some weirdness on eBay. I was selling some silver coins recently and some guy from Poland reached out to me and asked if I could buy him some chemical cleaner that he can’t get in Poland and would pay well for it. I don’t now if it was an honest question from a coin collector or whether the CIA would be at my door tomorrow kicking it down. Certainly weird. Sorry dude.

I agree with someone above that a lot of the stupidity is just inquiries. Can you shut auction down and sell to me. I can get out the money but not will take a few days to get the pay pal arranged. That kind of stuff. I also appreciate people lecturing me about what it’s worth when I can see EBay recent sales perfectly well.

Would you care to share an example of your listings like you're describing?

I'll agree that some of those listings can be misleading. I've clicked on some only to read in the details that only 1 of the items in the picture is for sale.

I might also add that even saying "RP" could be misleading, primarily to someone newer to the hobby. I suppose it comes down to knowing your audience, but it's eBay and the general public.

Another annoyance is finding down at the bottom of the description that the seller found said item in an attic and it may or may not be real, giving false hope to someone.

Those of whom you complain about are mere Grasshoppers...

Chill, Master Net54'ers... were you not once a Grasshopper as they are now?

Patience, your reward will be in educating, guiding, and nurturing these students.




OK, if you didn't watch Kung Fu as a kid, maybe watch this, and then watch a few season 1 episodes...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J37QUZjOjF8

You can't educate, guide and nurture stupid.

What gets me is when a seller lists his card for $7.95 with make an offer, thats worth maybe $3 but I need for a not very important variation and I offer $5 and the seller counters at $7.50.

Why even have make an offer if you are only going to discount it 45 cents?

I ran into this today. It was listed at $28.95 with best offer. Figured I would try an offer. I used all 5 you get and the last one was for $28.50 and it was auto rejected.

Personally I've told sellers that my offer is the best I can do, because sometimes I don't want them coming back with a counter. Either take the offer or say no. I don't feel like haggling. But then I don't make a subsequent offer like that guy did.

Did you respond to his first offer, though? I always find it kind of rude or annoying when I make an offer and the seller doesn't even respond to say thanks but no thanks. Sometimes I'll ask a question and the seller will respond to my question. Then I'll make an offer, and the same seller who a minute earlier responded to my question now acts as if I don't exist. And I'm not making insultingly low offers. My biggest complaint, though, is with sellers who list items for five, maybe ten times what they're worth, and just never sell. I've seen some items that I know have been listed on eBay for at least five years. Five years. And if you have the temerity to suggest to the seller that it's not going to sell at that price, they tell you that their price is fair. If it hasn't sold in five years, the price you're asking is too high. I wish eBay had a system like the old Filene's Basement, where if an item hadn't sold after a certain number of days, it automatically went down in price.

Utilizing that feature was an option for sellers last time I checked.

As a buyer, I see so, so many cards with firm BIN prices or starting bids that are way above what it seems like anyone would even consider paying. Do a huge portion (majority?) of cards on eBay just not sell?

eBay buyer etiquette question: I just received a card that was shipped in a soft sleeve, between two pieces of paper (not cardboard) in a plain envelope. It was not an expensive card (about $10) and the seller only charged $1 for shipping. But I would have expected at least some protection - a top loader, a padded envelope, or cardboard backing. Any one of the above.

The card arrived undamaged, fortunately, so all's well that ends well. The seller only has 18 feedback, all positive, so I don't want to drop a neutral on him as all the other elements of the deal were fine. But should I send him a private message, just as an "FYI" for what appears to be a new seller, or is that considered obnoxious?

That's a new option on ebay - the $1 shipping in PWE. If you're expecting a padded envelope for $1, you're mistaken.

I believe they're supposed to use a toploader though.

No, I'm not expecting a padded envelope - that was just one option for some protection. A toploader or even putting it between a couple of pieces of something stiffer than cardstock would have been fine. I've had several cards shipped in the new envelope option and they've all had some sort of protection.

Whenever I have those < $10 pwe orders with $1 or less shipping cost (that you accept will come by carrier pigeon), I've never had no protection like that (if no toploader, then there was the cardboard backing).

So while I've probably been pretty lucky about that, I'd still guess it's less likely to have your last pwe experience

USPS will only allow a PWE to be 1/4 inch thick. If you put a piece of cardboard in there you are going to exceed that and if so shipping will be charged as a package. I have had to pay postage due many times from a seller who tried to put cardboard in an envelope and mail it with just a stamp.

A PWE is principally used to mail letters, and they are sorted through mechanical feeders. USPS has a special 85 cent stamp you can use to have the PWE hand sorted. My local post office advised that you should also mark the envelope NON MACHINABLE in red on the left side.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

ebay
 

I think its been going on forever...negotiating / bargaining/ try to chew down a price/ whatever you want to call it....buts its not just ebay... it happens in a lot of places ...

.walk into a card show or a card shop to sell a card to a dealer, - what do you want for it ? whats the best you will let it go ?, what are you into the card for ?, I cant go a penny more ..Throw out a number...throw out a bigger number,

seems like nothing new to me

A Card Saver 1 taped to a folded invoice, then placed in the envelope, qualifies for the new eBay Standard Envelope option and it gives some protection to the card, plus the total weight is under one ounce.

Also, the PO raised the price of non-machinable letters to 30 cents, so you will need one of the new 88 cent stamps for a one ounce non-machinable letter.

In addition, do not mark envelopes that have the printed eBay Standard Envelope postage as non-machinable. These letters are machinable, and if you mark them non-machinable, your buyer will need to pay a postage due charge. These letters are tracked when they go through the letter processing machines at the entry and the destination processing plants. If you mark them as non-machinable, they don't go through the machines and they will not be tracked. The bar-codes on these letters are not able to be scanned by the clerks scanners or the carriers scanners - they are only detected by the letter processing machines. The eBay Standard Envelopes are only meant to be used on machinable letters.

Perhaps it shouldn't be an option. I'm sure others here might disagree, but Ebay ought to be for buying and selling items, not displaying them for five years with the remote possibility that maybe some idiot will come along and pay five times what it's worth

Agree with Rick, we have been putting a card (or several) in a sleeve and holder, taping it to folded piece of paper, and using the eBay standard envelope postage, probably for >100 sales at this point and it has worked great. It's actually great for both sellers and buyers for low-cost cards and I have not had any buyers note either slow shipping or card damage so far.

Jeff

Shouldn’t be an option or shouldn’t be optional?

But you wouldn't ship it in just the sleeve without the (presumably toploader) holder, right?

Nothing is more stubborn than an eBay Seller.

About 4 months ago, I saw a vintage Glove I really wanted. But it was overpriced by just over $100. I wrote the seller that it would not sell at his asking price, and offered that once his auction ended without a sale, I would pay him 15% above market value for an outright sale. Easy peasy... But the seller never had the courtesy to reply back.

So he relisted it a couple of times, with no luck of course. Then he relisted it for $10 less... no sale. Then he proceeded to do the same reduction 9 more times... still no sale.

When he finally reduced it a 10th time, I ended up buying it for $15 less than my original offer (which was made 4 months prior). So stubbornness cost him in the form of extra listing fees, 4 months of stagnancy, and 15 bucks.

The offer was automatically rejected due to the floor I set on the Best Offer function. I never even read it.

Sellers like to have the autonomy to set whatever price they want, especially for offbeat or unique items. I even know some guys who will list stuff at a price beyond market because they don't actually want to sell; their wives demanded a sale effort. Any sort of automatic markdown rule would make the site less friendly for many sellers. I know I would not tolerate it. It would just be one more nuisance policy to circumvent.

If someone wants to operate a card museum, let them.

If your wife is demanding an ROI on an investment that she's not seven interested in, namely your hobby, you have bigger problems than some idiot buyer trying to hammer you down.

I really like the new eBay PWE First Class shipping method because I get to print a shipping label with a USPS tracking #, I receive a discount on the postage, and I no longer need to pay the non-machinable surcharge. What's not to like?

I put the card sold in a card saver and sandwich it between 2 pieces of cardboard cut slightly smaller than the PWE. Obviously, the cardboard has to be relatively thin in order not to exceed the 1/4" maximum thickness. I usually use cardboard that I cut to size from empty dry cereal boxes (I have an endless supply of such boxes, as I eat dry cereal for breakfast 90+% of the time!). The cardboard on some dry cereal boxes is so thin that I can use 3 pieces for a stiffener sandwich and not exceed the 1/4" limit.

Yes, for sure!

Yes, you would, or yes, you wouldn’t?

I was suggesting that it should be a policy, not something sellers could decide to do or not do. But, of course, if that was the case, sellers could simply post the item as a new listing rather than a relist. Perhaps eBay could charge one commission/listing fee for a new listing and a lower commission/listing fee for a relist at a reduced price. That would incentivize sellers to lower the price after a non-sale, but not necessarily require it.

People say why do you care? Just ignore the ones at ridiculous prices. But the issue I have is that I have to wade through tons of listings (and automatic email notices of "new" listings that I get in my in box every day) for items that the seller really doesn't want to sell. It makes it harder to find genuine listings and actually discourages me (and other potential buyers) from looking. It is more than just a tiny inconvenience or I wouldn't care about it.

Agreed that the concept of the tiered pricing is good and the policy changes needed.
Agreed that it sucks wading thru the BS listings
Sadly I do not believe that Ebay will change the policy. Unless they are reading this thread of course :eek:

Yes, for sure would have the card in a toploader. If it were just in a sleeve, I think it would/could get damaged. We just put a single card in a sleeve and toploader, and if it's 2-5 cards or so, we put them into a wide toploader (you can do this for envelopes up to 3 oz.)

Thanks - I asked on the previous page whether I should send a "hey, just FYI" email to an apparently inexperienced seller who shipped in just a soft sleeve. Thoughts?

I wouldn't. My experiences are different. I have had great luck with cards in penny sleeves or card savers in PWEs. Had terrible luck in toploader and even worse when someone uses cardboard or other stiffeners. Most of the time the ones with extra stuff show up with postage due.

I know a few friends that do that. Ebay is still the wild wild west a little bit. It's like a box of chocolates....you never know what you are going to get.
.

Yeah, all of that.
A toploader isn't flexible enough to avoid being non-machinable.

Unless they've changed it, there's a pitfall for that 1/4 inch thing.
if it's 1/4 + it counts as a package. Especially if it isn't flexible.
BUT
If it's under 3/4 and isn't going priority the tracking number given through click and ship isn't allowed.

Fortunately the guy who bought the smallish print I sold worked for the government so he totally understood when I explained the delay and why the package was much stiffer and had a single packing peanut inside.
It cost extra but I just paid it the whole thing was complicated enough.

The postmaster and I had a nice discussion about the conflicting regs, and how I'd seen clerks offer the unavailable delivery confirmation on first class flats over the counter. His biggest concern was that whoever made my package be returned for postage had used a rate that had been obsolete for about a year!

I see this with tickets these days. There is a BOOM in uneducated collectors right now being taken full advantage of. The hobby is in a sad state right now.

There are a LOT of scumbag sellers that care nothing other than ripping people off. I'm getting sick of it.

If they put a 1% listing fee for every time something was listed (waived if sold), these imbeciles that list $150 tickets for $9000 will stop their practice of trying to rip people off and screw the hobby. I fully agree.

I don't think that is true. I've mailed literally hundreds of envelopes with a card (or 2 or 3) in top loaders inside a PWE. I tape the holder to a folded sheet of paper inside the envelope. I also put a piece of packaging tape, wrapped around both ends of the top of the envelope, to avoid the envelope flap catching in the machine. All for a single forever stamp. I've never had anyone come back to me and say they were charged for additional postage (but I deal with great traders so who knows what they aren't telling me :)). I've also not had envelopes get destroyed, or if so, no more so than padded envelopes.

That doesn't mean I should NOT do this though. Just that they do seem to be flexible enough to go through when packaged appropriately.

To follow on to another point you made. If you don't like what an PO employee is telling you, ask a different one. They might even tell you how to send a small box of cards using a flat rate envelope. :D

I do the same…or sometimes use an old Donruss puzzle piece as the backer.

I sell cards cheap, and new top loaders are like 35 cents each shipped…so I stopped using top loaders for low value cards once my stash ran out.

Most of my ebay sales are single cards I ship in a PWE. I charge 60 cents. The card is put in a penny sleeve then a toploader secured with a piece of removable tape. Then I protect with light cardboard on both sides inside the packing slip. I have done this for years with no issues from buyers or the post office.

When I started selling on ebay over 20 years ago, several buyers gave me tips or suggestions. They were very helpful so I think you should do the same.

Mike

If a standard white envelope is over 1/4", it should go up to a large envelope, not a package. I regularly send cards in PWE with 2 pieces of corrugated and it costs $1.16. If the clerk is charging you for a package, I would talk to the Postmaster.

I agree. It seems like a number of us have independently come to a similar solution (card in penny sleeve and toploader, taped to piece of folded paper, with or without cardboard) with good luck, and it might be nice to suggest that to this seller. Jeff

Being able to use a rigid TL in a PWE with a forever stamp must vary from USPS branch to branch. If I mail a PWE with a TL with just a forever stamp in my local zipcode, it is as good as returned to me the next day having never left town....CS2 or CS1 seem to be fine with my local branch. Now I have no issues receiving PWE with TLs, just sending them.

Larry,

That is very likely true. Just like the interpretations of the regulations seem to vary from one PO or PO worker to another. I was noting that the machines could physically process them.

A TL is fine; think of all the junk mail you get with rigid envelopes, mock credit cards, membership cards, etc. All have pieces of rigid plastic or cardboard. A TL in an envelope has never been a issue for me to send. I tape it to a piece of paper.