The hobby is surely passing me by
 

Sometimes you've got to say....

https://goldinauctions.com/Honus_Wag...LOT118039.aspx

if I am willing to spend $32k on NFT, i rather get a LeBron James drunk NFT.

That is not for me either.
But obviously someone was interested enough to pay that much.

"A fool and his money were lucky to get together in the first place."

- Harry Anderson Hello, Sucker 1986

Peter - You didn't finish the statement. It's "Sometimes you just gotta say "WTF" :D

Alan, it was implied, but yes.

so many questions
 

So these NFTs are crypto-shares of an actual thing? or a virtual thing? this silly frog Wagner, does it exist in time and space? And if so, I understand how people can trade the shares, and how the shares might go up or down based on demand for those shares, but where does the card live? Who is its caretaker? Is there a majority owner? How would anyone know if it went missing or never even existed? If you bought all the shares can you get the card?

Am a little surprised Goldin sold this. Pepe the Frog has been co-opted as a symbol of white supremacy. Would they sell Wagner in a KKK hood? I mean, they can sell whatever they want, I'm just surprised.

I had the same reaction.

I think it's just digital, and the significance of the token is that it gives you ownership, but someone younger and cooler than me can probably answer better.

A lot of stupid people doing stupid things with their money.

Looks to me like someone spent $31k on a piece of clip art. Imagine all the real baseball cards that could have purchased!

Yeah I really do not get it either but I understand the appeal of it to the new breed of hobbyist or CIF (Collector-Investor-Flipper). I am far too much a traditionalist with my collecting approaches to ever find this enticing or even interesting.

I'm waiting for Curly of the Three Stooges to be featured on the Wagner card. That nun-fungible asset would easily top 50k. And, my goodness, if it was animated with a soundtrack ("wu-wu-wu-wu-wu") it might go into 6 figures.

WTNFT world are we living in?

Brian

Talk about tax reform… whoever is willing to pay $31k for that should have to pay a one-time, stupidity excise tax of 50% the purchase price; so long as the IRS allows that lucky buyer to recapture that tax when the buyer eventually sells it for a huge loss and/or writes it off as a total loss.

Seems insane to me.

But then again, no doubt I would have been one of those folks in 1970 saying “holy crap…. Some idiot just spent $10,000 on a small card board picture of Honus Wagner …. What the hell is wrong with people!!”

I guess you don’t know how stupid anything really is until some time has passed.

That is a bunch of bullshit. People can put anything on a meme and have it mean something different. Of course anybody putting a Hitler mustache on him, or swastika etc.....then yes, that is racist. A pure Pepe is not racist. He is a frog. I love frogs. Leave him alone. Putting Pepe on a Wags isn't racist.
.

watch this to "get learned" on Pepe:

https://www.businessinsider.com/pepe...esters-2019-10

I watched it before you posted it. I am all "learned" up. I still think the NFT Wags and Pepe is not racist. Everything is effing racist nowadays. I am absolutely disgusted with our society today and I fear for future generations living off the govt. It used to be a black mark to take welfare from our govt. Now it's a badge of honor not to work ....so it seems. People today make everything racist and it's not true.
Just my opinion. Everyone has one.

.

+1

What does it mean if I hate Pepe Wagner?

To me, this is another not-so-subtle representation that the hobby we all love is being transformed into something far different than when we first starting buying cards. I first starting collecting back when dinosaurs roamed the earth and the only way to get a desired card was to trade, one set of greasy fingers to the next. No TPG, no auctions, little money, no equity shares, no trimming or alterations and certainly no non-fungible cards.
And I totally agree with Leon that putting a Hitler meme on Honus aimed at the Neo-Nazis and other hate groups is pure racism. Using Kermit is just silly.

This
 

I remember when PSA just entered the market place and I told my friend he was absolutely NUTS for spending 3-10X the raw going rate for PSA 9 and 10 Clemente's including spending 30K for a PSA 9 rookie - years later he auctioned his cards and got a cool million for 1955-1973!! In hindsight he sure knew/suspected something I didn't and got to laugh all the way to the bank!!

Like others - I don't get it, but time certainly will tell.

Then you didn't watch the whole video. It shows how "Pepe" evolved into something that conjured "racist alt-right" thoughts for most Americans but was used as a symbol of rebellion against dictatorship for those people living in Hong Kong. Why do you think the Pepe Wagner NFT sold for so much? It's not because of Pepe the cartoon. It's because of the ideology of his image. Period.

If the NFT were of Garfield or Snoopy superimposed on a T206 Wagner, it would not have garnered much attention. And we certainly wouldn't be discussing it on a chat board.

Exactly. He evolved. He went to a bad place with extremists. To me, that doesn't make a frog racist. Sorry.

I am not interested in racism baited discussion either. If you didn't notice, there was exactly NOTHING racist about what was sold. It was a frog and a Wags card...NFT...

If I make a meme of a US quarter, and put Hitler on it, would it make all quarters racist? You will never convince me that that NFT had anything to do with racism.

Omega put Snoopy on a watch, and that piece is now backordered for the next several years and selling on the grey market at 3-4x retail. It's certainly getting a lot of chatter on watch collecting boards.

I guess you felt like I was challenging you in some way. I was only making a point about symbols and how they can be co-opted and turned into things they weren't meant to be. Not anyone's opinion on symbols.

Put your name out here and please continue.
And sorry, I still disagree. A frog and a swastika are 2 different things. I love frogs and see them all the time at my house. They aren't racist. They are green. I would never have a swastika at my house. It's a bad symbol, frogs aren't.

Not sure about Pepe but some frogs are pretty tasty. And Peter, don't know about you but the hobby passed me by awhile back :)

https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag.../IMG_6425.WEBP

Do NOT mess with Snoopy. He's a bad mutha***er.

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...hing%20gif.gif

This whole NFT thing, a big 'who cares' in my collecting book. I collect to enjoy something I enjoyed as a kid the way I enjoyed it as a kid. Unlike Cap'n Crunch or Pop-Tarts, something that won't make my 56 year old body sick. That means cardboard and paper in hand to play with in front of the television. Period. This digital, fractional stuff, forget it; if I want something i can't play with I will buy stocks. See signature line below...'nuf ced

A swastika is not a bad symbol. Being Buddhist, I can confirm that. :) A swastika is a symbol of peace and actually represents the Buddhist footprints. Its actually a lucky symbol. This has been the way since almost the birth of the Buddha. Unfortunately, some group in Germany decided to use it as their symbol. Maybe whats being done to poor Pepe the Frog.

I always say thank god (or thank Buddha) the US made baseball. Its the only thing that connects me to the country anymore. Having got rid of my US citizenship decades ago, I still appreciate being able to come back during the summer and attend as many MLB games as possible and participate in the National and other shows during that time. I can say that after this summer, sadly the US has lost it way. Ignorance has been taken to a completely new level.

My biggest concern is not a frog or a swastika, but that I hope there is no strike for this next season. I have already paid for season tickets for next year.

I'll just have to stick with my Speedmaster I guess.

What's a "watch"? My phone has a clock.

The swastika was also a Native American symbol with a reverse image:

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...0At%20Ease.jpg

The Benham Indian Trading Co. used it as logo on their postcards 114 years ago.

Excellent point.

I don't understand NFT's but I also don't really understand Crypto and both seem to be booming.

I think the NFT people are a separate section/separate hobby entirely. It relates to cards but it's more of an offshoot.

What I'm more curious about is if there's a lockout, how will the market, both NFT's and physical cards be affected.

Funny you should mention that Peter; the watch in question is a Speedmaster.

Wasn't the 1994-95 strike one of the things that popped the hobby's bubble in the 1990s?

Blasphemy lol.

It was also painted on the nose cone of Spirit of St. Louis.

That is when I quit watching MLB. I will watch part of a game every now and then. Or maybe game 7 of the series but after that strike I never went back...
.

The Silver Snoopy, commemorating the 50th anniversary of Omega receiving a safety award from NASA.

It's hard to ruin a Speedmaster and it's tastefully done. But still.

OMG the price.
https://www.swisswatchexpo.com/watch...iABEgJGM_D_BwE

Modern will take a hit for sure. I am not sure a lockout is going to affect Babe Ruth's stats. I bet if it does pop the current vintage market some there will be a lot of people ready to pounce on quality vintage material at attractive prices.

And that's down from where they were at the beginning of the year. I remember seeing them being flipped for $40-50,000--and people were paying that.

I didn't say the image as drawn was racist. But, facts are facts - Pepe the Frog has been co-opted as a symbol of white supremacists. Sometimes benign images or symbols get co-opted - such as the swastika. I was expressing surprise that an image that has been co-opted was being sold by Goldin. You're making a distinction where one doesn't exist.

Lemme just re-emphasize, Goldin can do whatever they want. I honestly don't care one way or the other if they sell it. But I am surprised.

https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-...htmlstory.html

https://www.statepress.com/article/2...hite-supremacy

https://www.vox.com/2016/9/21/128936...g-donald-trump

Thanks for the articles. I had read the first one. I am not co-opting him. Sorry. He's a frog.

That only matters to people who:
1. Give white supremacists any credibility whatsoever
2. People who want to keep racial tensions strong by finding racism wherever they look.

For me, I give white supremacists zero credibility and I likewise give race baiters zero credibility. The goal should be for us to find common ground and unity, not constantly look to group people based on race, then pit those groups against each other.

Pepe is a frog. Period. I don't care if terrorists worship him or some other group sews his image in their leather jackets, the cartoon is a frog.

I generally agree with you. That said, even Leon admits that he thinks some benign symbols are objectionable. What's the line?

Whatever white supremacists do, say, or use as a symbol should be 100% irrelevant to every sane person on earth and beyond.

If Charles Manson had a Yogi Bear tattoo, would that mean Yogi was "co-opted" and Yogi cartoons were suddenly racist?

We still have swastikas on our county courthouse. Courthouse was built in 1931, Hitler rose to power in 1933.

Most people don't pay attention to them or have any clue they are there.

I watched Da Vinci Code early this am lots of symbols can be interpreted different ways and be co opted for whatever use a person wants.

deleted

Probably need your full name out here to say someone feels a certain way. Read the rule at the top of the page in bold......thanks

And I also don't give those people any cred. Law enforcement does because they get to deal with them. I don't have to and won't and I don't care what extremists say. It's a frog.

Hi Leon, I'd rather not do that here, so I'll just delete the prior post. Thanks for clarifying

Can we all agree it's appropriate to remove statues of Thomas Jefferson?:cool::eek::confused::mad:

If the criteria you base that on is what I assume, Washington would be next.

Imagine that poor football team.

Washington Redskins to
Washington Football Team to
Football Team.

Political correctness: dismantling history and tradition one piece at a time.

Nevermind all this political bullshit, the World Series is starting!

100% agree. Pepe is the mascot of American dipshit white supremacy and anti-semitism now. Whoever made this NFT was completely aware of what Pepe means. Whoever bought it probably does too.

I remember when Leon ran that Stormfront guy out of here several years ago. Those were the days.


David

If that NFT of the Wagner is not the hobby jumping the shark, I don't know what is. The only other equivalent-magnitude shark jumping I can think of is PSA debasing itself by slabbing the doodles of that internet false-profit snake oil salesman Gary V. Together, those two events say a lot about where the hobby is, and how desperate a money play it is for some people. Thankfully, for many of us, it is still about collecting cards we find beautiful of a sport we love.

Surely in all this time there has been controversy about getting rid of them?

Not sure a man who celebrates a cdv of men in black face as one of his favorite pieces is exactly gonna be your shining knight in this moment.
That's alright though, older caucasian men are always the last to see the value of change - hence their lawns are always looking good.

Comments like this are why race should not be discussed on this sub along with politics and religion. Everybody gets hyper triggered and can't play nice.

I represent that!! BTW, they are frog face to me. Pepe Frog LOL


.

Stop being so speciesist and get woke! The amphibian barrier is coming down in baseball soon. Don't be left behind.

Historians are pretty sure he did a lot of stuff that would at least get him fired pretty much anywhere.

Same with many of the founding fathers.

But aside from starting a new country what they did wasn't all that unusual for the time they lived.

The same may be true for some great civil rights leaders. Whatever.

And hardly anyone seems to realize the difference between what was and what is. And many of those people celebrate outright criminals while decrying the actions however misguided of people who likely died more than 20 years ago.

Judging past behavior by today's standards is a vexing question and a serious one. It's not an easy one. Behaviors we condemn today, and rightfully so, were generally accepted at one point. How do we view the people who condoned them at the time? I don't give them a moral free pass, and I also understand the mitigating circumstances of history.

I thought Pepe was a skunk...

https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.9...=0&w=300&h=300

Yes, it is easy: don't do it. It's only recently that the Woke religion has decided to take down history and cancel what was the norm of the past. It had better be a faze. Past generations didn't do it. You simply cannot use today's standards to judge past behaviors. Learn from history but you simply cannot change what already happened. If it keeps up, we'll have a sterile and conformed society like straight out of 1984.

Taking down statues of Jefferson and Washington is a tragic waste of time and energy. What do you think history is going to say about what is going on in today's outrage of the minute culture? Many of the very people who are tearing down history don't know squat about history or context of it.

I think you have to be reasonable. It's one thing not to have a state Capitol fly the Confederate flag, it's quite another to take down a statue of Thomas Jefferson of all people or to change a school named for Abraham Lincoln of all people. And it's not like every famous and accomplished person of color has been a saint either.

Imagine for a moment that you are a black man. You take your son or daughter out and they ask you who Thomas Jefferson is and why there's a big statue of him in a public space. Would you want to ignore the fact that because of his race and privilege and black people's race and lack thereof, Jefferson was legally able to own people for no other reason than because they happened to look like you and your son?

Slavery and its effects are a crucial part of US history and continue to impact the daily lives of black Americans in ways many white Americans have difficulty understanding or acknowledging. The argument for taking down a Jefferson statue is not to whitewash history, but in fact just the opposite–to end the practice of publicly honoring white racists, which in itself whitewashes the horrors of slavery and racism that are intertwined with the accomplishments of celebrated white men such as Jefferson.

I would say that is a good discussion to have.

Slavery exists in Africa to this day, but it was abolished in this country over 150 years ago, because of the system of government founded by Jefferson and his contemporaries.

Existed long before the united states as well, but we arent talking about "those people" only those Anglo Americans "bad people"

As this thread devolves into a discussion about things other than the hobby, figured I'd post a picture of card. The player is by no means a household name, he just happened to have been a ballplayer.

I agree, but perhaps a better discussion if it happens under different circumstances.

Slavery in Africa has nothing to do with my comment.

Ah yes, the ones who wrote that "all men are created equal" while denying rights to black men and all women.