Best Starting 9 in a single set?
 

What's the best starting 9 roster that can be assembled using only players from a single set. I am excluding sets like the 1940 Play Ball or 1960 Fleer which both feature retired hall of famers. Every position needs to be filled by a player who spent significant time in the position (ie. you can't use Mike Schmidt at 2B even though he played 6 games there). I don't distinguish among outfield positions.

Here's an example; using only cards from the 1914 Cracker Jack set, this would be your starting 9:
P - Walter Johnson
C - Roger Bresnahan
1B - Frank Chance
2B - Eddie Collins
SS - Honus Wagner
3B - Home Run Baker
OF - Ty Cobb
OF - Tris Speaker
OF - Shoeless Joe Jackson

The 1975 Topps set would be pretty solid
C-Bench
1b-Stargell
2b-Morgan
SS-Yount
3b-Schmidt
OF-Reggie Jackson
OF-Hank Aaron
OF-Maybe Rice?
P-Gibson or Seaver or Ryan

That's a solid roster. If you take that basic core (Bench, Morgan, Stargell, Aaron, and your chosen pitcher) back a few years to 1971. You lose Yount and Schmidt, but you can add Banks, and Robinson. You can upgrade Rice to Mays, and Clemente becomes available for Jackson as well.

65 Topps
C Berra
1B McCovey
2B Morgan
SS Aparicio
3B B Robinson
Of Mays, Mantle, Aaron
P Koufax, Carlton, Gibson, Ford, Marichal
RP Wilhelm
extras Clemente, Banks, F Robinson

1986 Topps is a fun one. The roster is steroid (but not gambling) free as far as I can tell.

1B Eddie Murray
2B Ryne Sandberg
SS Cal Ripken
3B Mike Schmidt
C Gary Carter
OF Tony Gwynn
OF Rickey Henderson
OF Reggie Jackson
SP Nolan Ryan
RP Dennis Eckersly

MGR Pete Rose

I like that 1971 bunch...

How about W514s?

P - Walter Johnson
C - Roger Bresnahan (or maybe Ray Schalk)
1B - Hal Chase
2B - Nap Lajoie
SS - Honus Wagner
3B - Rogers Hornsby
OF - Ty Cobb
OF - Tris Speaker
OF - Babe Ruth


I hate leaving Joe Jackson out of that lineup. In 1919 Rogers Hornsby played a majority of his games at third base, not the only season he did that. And maybe there's a better choice on catcher. There's some ballplayers in W514.

1910 Punch Cuban Issue - only prewar set that combines MLB, Negro, and Cuban Greats

Outfield
Ty Cobb
Sam Crawford
Pete Hill

Infield
1st Carlos Royer
2nd Grant Homerun Johnson
3rd. George Moriarty
SS. Pop Lloyd

Pitcher
Jose Mendez
Eddie plank
Chief Bender

Catcher
Bruce Pettway

M101-4 (very similar to the Cracker Jack lust above but you can sneak Ruth onto the list)


P - Babe Ruth (that is what he is listed at on the card) but Ruth can be replaced at Pitcher by Walter Johnson if Speaker gets replaced by Ruth as OF)
C - Roger Bresnahan
1B - Frank Chance
2B - Nap Lajoie (or Eddie Collins…take your pick)
SS - Honus Wagner
3B - Home Run Baker
OF - Ty Cobb
OF - Tris Speaker (replaced by Ruth if you aren’t getting too technical about the position in front)
OF - Shoeless Joe Jackson


Along the same line of thinking is the Collins-McCarthy set (E135) which would allow for Hornsby to sneak in as 1st B (as listed on the card) but you still have the problem of Ruth listed as a pitcher.

And have Gil Hodges or Earl Weaver as manager.

I was thinking for 1957 Topps:

P-Warren Spahn
C-Roy Campanella
1B-Gill Hodges
2B-Bill Mazeroski
SS-Luis Aparicio
3B-Brooks Robinson
OF-Ted Williams
OF-Roberto Clemente
OF-Hank Aaron

Off the top of my head, I can't think come up with the managers who appeared in the set. Plenty of good future managers though.

Slight problems there Rhett. Speaker is not in m101-4/5. Bresnahan and Chance are m101-5 only but Cobb is m101-4 only, so technically you can't have all. One swap I would make is Sisler for Chance at 1B in m101-4. If you want a really studly pitching staff, try m101-5, where both Ruth AND Sisler are listed as moundsmen, then you could add Walter Johnson and Grover Alexander. Not exactly the 2021 Minnesota Twins rotation, but it would do.

t206 would get you a pretty good all HOF squad (one of many possible versions...)

P Cy Young
1B Sam Crawford
2B Nap Lajoie
SS Honus Wagner
3B George Davis
LF Zack Wheat
CF Tris Speaker
RF Ty Cobb
C Roger Bresnahan

Now how would structure the lineup....😀

A lot of vintage ones...I like this modern one

1995 Bowman

C - Piazza or IRod
1B - Thomas
2B - Alomar
SS - ARod
3B - Chipper
OF - Bonds/Griffey/Henderson
SP - Martinez/Maddux/Johnson/Clemens
Set up - Eck
RP - Rivera

Like my chances if you don't take them in 95 but rather in their primes/overall careers...also could drop back to 94 and insert Ryan and Brett..but then you don't have them all in the same set,

Good points Todd! :)

I should have thought about it a little more before posting, I remembered that Cobb was only in M101-4 so I went with that one, forgot Speaker wasn't there (makes you wonder why he wasn't included!). You could swap Bresnahan for Schalk (with a bit of a step down) but there really aren't many good 1st Basemen in the M101-4/5 series so that becomes the issue...

Let's go with the Holsum Bread series then...

P - Walter Johnson
C - Ray Schalk
1B - Rogers Hornsby
2B - Eddie Collins
SS - Dave Bancroft
3B - Home Run Baker
OF - Ty Cobb
OF - Babe Ruth
OF - Shoeless Joe Jackson

You lose Wagner at SS but add Ruth to the OF & you get to keep Walter Johnson at P.

I imagine the 1933 Goudey set would be pretty great as you get a huge step up to Bill Dickey at C. and you get to add Lou Gehrig to the mix.

Fun thought exercise for a thread!

This is a great one. I was thinking mid 90’s as well.

I like that it includes all leagues of players and it is an interesting and a strong list. And alot of great players and great history on the list

I'd definitely take Yaz over Rice. Maybe Rose over Jackson,

I'd have either Killebrew or McCovey over Stargell, and Winfield over Rice. Technically you would need another OF, since Aaron is listed as DH only (same with Frank Robby). Because I would never honor Pete Rose in any way, I would probably slide Lou Brock in there--otherwise Yaz.

Many options and all making of a strong starting 9

Clemente over Mays and Mantle? Uh, no. And Banks for sure over Aparicio.

Did we do 33 Goudey yet?
C Dickey
1B Gehrig
2B Hornsby
SS Vaughan
3B Traynor
OF Ruth, Ott, Waner
P Grove, Hubbell, Dean, maybe Pennock
DH Foxx

I don't know how I forgot about Banks. As for Mays and Mantle,

[IMG]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...94afd425_w.jpg[/IMG]

It's a technicality, but 1973 and 1976 Topps with their 'All-Time All-Stars' and 'All-Time Leaders' subsets (added to the contemporary players) gives us all we'll ever need.

1958 Topps
P Koufax
C Berra
1B Musial
2B Mazeroski
3B Mathews
SS Banks
LF Williams
CF Mays
RF Clemente

Unfortunately, 1958 Topps is the only set in the 40s-50s where all the stars have cards.

1973 Topps would be another good one
P Seaver
C Bench
1B Aaron
2B Morgan
3B Schmidt
SS Aparicio
LF Yastrzemski
CF Mays
RF Clemente

I think this is the winner although 1914-15 Cracker Jack is very strong.

I thought of that, but had Cochrane at catcher. Grove starts--but I would never say no to Carl Hubbell. At any rate, I am sure that this squad could hold its own against any of them.

with Collins McCarthy, you not only get Hornsby at 2b but also Sisler at first.
and I have no problem with using the Babe in the outfield --we can't let the position listed on the front of the card rule our lives.

You could move back to 93 Finest Refractors, swap in Ripken at SS and Brett at 3B and I think all you lose are Pedro and Rivera.and of course you get Ryan.

There are a lot of great answers on this list. I keep trying an early 50s list, but player rights issues always leave one or two players on the sidelines. That and the fact there is no hall of fame 3B until Eddie Mathews comes along. Nevertheless, here’s a shot with 1950 Bowman

P: Spahn/Feller
C: Berra (or Campy)
1B: Mize
2B: Robinson
SS: Appling
3B: Bob Elliott
OF: Williams
OF: Doby
OF: Snider
M: Stengel

I mainly think a lineup of stars from this year would beat any of the past lineups, obviously just due to conditioning, league inclusiveness, etc. Perhaps a topic for a different thread but what’s the common thought if we stole Ruth from the past and plopped him into today’s game? Is he a Thome type guy, a Ruth type guy,
or a me type guy (ie not good)?

Speaking of Mathews, 52 Topps

C Berra or Campanella
1B Mize
2b Robinson
SS Reese
3b Mathews
Of Mays, mantle, Snider
P Spahn, Feller, Roberts, Wynn
RP Wilhelm

One more entrant from me, this from Old Judge.

C: Buck Ewing
1B: Cap Anton
2B: Bud McPhee
SS: Jack Glasscock
3B: Deacon White
OF: Hamilton
OF: Kelly
OF: Delahanty
P: Nichols, Radbourn, Keefe, Clarkson, Galvin
M: Harry Wright

I’ve got 5 starters, but would only need 2

I think any modern lineup loses. You don't have a pitcher that can pitch 9 innings. I think Ruth is still Ruth. The best players would still be among the best. The number of active Hall of Famers per season has been declining since the 70s. Why is that?

1933 GOUDEY....and then some.


C and 1b (Foxx and Gehrig, respectively)

https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...x2sheet50x.jpg


2b - Gehringer
https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...ringerBerg.jpg
SS
https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...33ghornsby.jpg
3b - Ott
https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...26x127xx25.jpg


LF
https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...Doul58x232.jpg

CF
https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...HackWilson.jpg


RF
https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...abeRuth149.jpg


P
https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...Hubbell33G.jpg

OR

P
https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...GroveSGC60.jpg


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

Switching from short to third is pretty common I would think, but did anyone notable other than Ott switch from outfield to third?

Yeah, I’m probably letting the positions get in the way but they are right there :)

Hornsby is listed at 1st Base on his E135 card.

In the year 2000 we have

c Pudge Rodriguez
1b Jim Thome
2b Craig Biggio
3b Adrian Beltre
ss Alex Rodriguez
lf Barry Bonds
cf Ken Griffey jr.
rf Tony Gwynn
p Randy Johnson/Greg Maddux/Pedro Martinez

Not bad! That's a nice balanced lineup too.

And I like 1927

c Mickey Cochrane
1b Jimmie Foxx/Lou Gehrig
2b Charlie Gehringer
ss Rogers Hornsby
3b Pie Traynor
rf Babe Ruth
cf Tris Speaker
lf Harry Heilmann
p Lefty Grove / Pete Alexander

Hi Peter

The 1933 GOUDEY set is replete with star outfielders; therefore, I positioned Mel Ott at 3rd base. Simply, because I wanted him in my Line-up everyday.

To your question.....can you say Craig Nettles ? Craig played the outfield the first 3 (or four) years of his career.

Furthermore, through-out the 1960's Harmon Killebrew played Left Field (besides 3rd base).


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

I'll get us started: Tommy Leach, Bob Elliott, Frank Thomas I, and Enos Cabell come to mind. Maybe Freddie Lindstrom? I'm sure there are lots of others.

Ted and Mark -- Pete Rose as well.

This is my favorite non modern group if you lose Clemente and put Aaron in RF.

Yeah, it's a subject Rats60 and I and others have been through many times, but personally I just cannot see Clemente over Aaron. I would probably take Nellie Fox over Mazeroski too.

Just for fun a current team
1b Pujols
2b Altuve
SS Tatis? if too soon, hmmm... Bogaerts?
3B Cabrera (cheating a bit)
OF Trout, Betts, Harper?
C Posey or Molina
P Verlander, Kershaw, Scherzer, Cole, Greinke

WOW

2 Very solid lineups for the 2000 and the 1927.

I would take either group for offense I love the '27 lineup for Pitching I like the 2000's

Ty Cobb was still playing in 1927. So was Eddie Collins who I would take over Gehringer.

I like the restrictions of a tiny set, such as the 10 card 1921 W551, to perform a little mental placement gymnastics:


P - Walter Johnson

C - Casey Stengel - No MLB games as Catcher, but managed, so almost the same

1B - Wally Pipp

2B - George Sisler - Played 2 games at 2B in 1917

3B - Frank Baker

SS - Dave Bancroft

LF - Ty Cobb - Played a total of 36 games in LF during career

CF - Tris Speaker

RF - Babe Ruth


Odd man out, but waiting in the wings to relieve Johnson when his arm turns to rubber - Relief pitcher Jesse Barnes - 110 games as non-starter


Brian

I have personally met Clemente and Aaron. And, Clemente is my guy.

Aaron at a BB Show signing session.

Clemente at Bradenton Field during Spring Training 1971. Our seats were near the RF foul pole. Every time Roberto
came out to his field position, he would devote some time talking with us. What a gracious and friendly guy he was.

GOD Bless his soul.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

Yes, and he was a better right fielder than Aaron too by some margin, but overall, it's not even close. E.g. 143 vs. 94 WAR. And yes, I know Clemente had a couple of end of career seasons left in him where he would have added a little.

It would be fun to see the results if there were some sort of simulation that could be run with these teams.

I meant to use Cobb, that's why I chose 1927, then I forgot....damn senility. But I like Gerhinger over Collins even though Collins was probably the only second baseman in history better than Gehringer. (a little hometown bias)

1927 (slightly revised)
c Mickey Cochrane
1b Jimmie Foxx/Lou Gehrig
2b Charlie Gehringer
ss Rogers Hornsby
3b Pie Traynor
rf Babe Ruth
cf Tris Speaker
lf Ty Cobb
p Lefty Grove / Pete Alexander
DH/pinch hitter Harry Heilmann

Clemente played in the most difficult stadium to hit home runs in for most of his career. Aaron played in the easiest stadium to hit home runs for half his career and still needed the Braves to move the fences in to help him. I would put Aaron at 1b on teams after Stan Musial retired, but I would never put him in RF.

Does that really explain 750 HR vs. 240? Come on now. Or 2300 RBI vs. 1300? Aaron was a much greater slugger, there can be no serious dispute.

BTW Aaron hit something like 370 HR on the road -- 50 percent more than Clemente's total output.

Maybe we could do a Stratomatic tournament, or Out Of The Park, or something like that.

OOTP could definitely handle this.

Those farmers of yesteryear wouldn't stand a chance.:eek:

I made a Strat-O-Matic card that can be used for any steroids era player, pitchers included...

Attachment 479617

a bit late on this thread but thought M101-6 Felix Mendelsohn was worth mentioning. Not a very large set either at a bit over 100 cards but chock full of all time greats. If we aren't sticklers for exact listed positions can field:

C. R. Schalk
1b. G. Sisler
2b. Eddie Collins/ Hornsby
3b. Home Run Baker
SS. Honus Wagner (checklisted but unconfirmed) or Hornsby (SS listed on card)
OF. Babe Ruth/ (or Tris Speaker if Ruth pitches)
OF Ty Cobb
OF Joe Jackson
P. Walter Johnson/ Grover Alexander/Babe Ruth
MGR. John McGraw

We didn't do 1956 yet. If you allow a cheat and put Mantle at 1B, it's arguably as good as any.

1B Hodges (or, cheating a little, Mantle)
2B Jackie (yes, card says 3B but whatever)
SS Banks
3B Mathews
OF Williams, Mays, Aaron
C Berra
P Koufax, Feller, Ford, Spahn, Roberts
RP Wilhelm
DH Mantle if not at iB otherwise Clemente

I had the 1956 set in mind when I posted this topic. I'm surprised it took this long for someone to pick it. I might quibble over Killebrew at 1B or Campanella at C, but your list looks a lot like mine. I would say Williams was born to be a DH, and I'd put Mantle/Clemente in the field.

Forgot Killebrew started out at 1B. Over Hodges for sure.

Was just coming to post 1956 topps

How about 1940 playball?
C Dickey
1b Foxx
2b Gehringer
Ss Wagner
3b Frank Baker
OF Williams
Of Dimaggio
OF Joe Jackson
P Walter Johnson , Christy Mathewson
Mgr Connie Mack

Half of those guys are retired. Why not just do 1976 Topps?

P Walter Johnson
C Johnny Bench
1B Lou Gehrig
2B Rogers Hornsby
3B Mike Schmidt
SS Honus Wagner
OF Babe Ruth
OF Ty Cobb
OF Ted Williams

1968 Topps would be strong.

C Bench
1B Mantle
2B Morgan
SS Banks (cheat) or Aparicio
3b Mathews
OF Mays, Aaron, Clemente, F Robinson
P Seaver, Carlton, Ryan, Gibson, Marichal
RP Wilhelm

I might go '33 Goudey like this:

C - Cochrane
1B - Gehrig
2B - Lajoie
3B - Foxx
SS - Hornsby
OF - Ruth
OF - Ott
CF - Speaker
P - Grove

As I read these teams I come to a question that has always perplexed me. I love Yogi, and love Campanella, how come Yogi is always chosen over Roy? Never saw either play, started watching in 68, but for those who saw both, is it not close or are they a toss up? Played a lot of All Time All Star, the SI game in early 70's, on the chart in the game Campy was stronger. Same question Eddie Mathews and Hank Aaron, as they played together was Aaron the player and Mathews the second choice. Did see Aaron quite a bit, did not see Eddie Mathews. Question for those who saw them.

I never saw them play either, but my best guess is that it comes down to two factors. Between his negro league career and his accident, Campanella had a shorter career in the majors, so his major counting stats don't measure up to Yogi's. When you factor in 10 championships vs 1, Yogi has a clear advantage. Add in the colorful personality and the Yankee mystique, I think that explains why he's the choice for so many people. Personally I think Campanella was better, but I understand why people would lean toward Yogi.

With respect to Aaron vs. Mathews, I think it's as simple as Aaron being far superior in every meaningful statistic. This isn't meant to diminish Mathews, who is an underappreciated great of the game, but he's just a star, Henry Aaron is no worse that the 5th best player in the history of the game, and has a legitimate argument to be the best.

Another in a series of making due with what you are given...I present to you the all-time lineup from the 10 card W9316 set:

P - Jesse Barnes (promoted from relief pitcher in W514 to starter here)

C - Ray Schalk

1B - George Sisler

2B - Jimmy Johnston

3B - Frank Baker

SS - Wally Schang (primarily a catcher, in 1918 played in 1 game as SS)

LF - Bobby Veach

CF - Tommy Griffith

RF/MGR - Wilbert Robinson (8 games in OF, so he sticks himself in right)

Relief Pitcher - Leon Cadore (45 games as non-starter)


Brian