Well this sure is interesting! Goldin/PSA now the same?
 

One could imagine a conflict of interest? In any event this isn't yesterday's sleepy hobby, this is a new animal.

Sports collectibles auction pioneer Ken Goldin has sold Goldin Auctions to Collectors Holdings, a group owned by New York Mets owner Steve Cohen, hedge fund billionaire Dan Sundheim and venture capital investor Nat Turner. Goldin, who founded his self-named auction house in 2012, remains with the firm and will operate Goldin Auctions as an independent business. Collectors Holdings will provide capital to expand Goldin Auctions’ capabilities in the red-hot memorabilia market.

In case I need to spell it out, these are the same gentlemen who bought PSA.

“Sub and sell” specials? Sub a card and send in X dollars…they grade and auction and send you back (hopefully) 2X, 3X, 5X dollars.

Anyone remember Grade and Trade from back in the day?

This Made Me Laugh
 

“We’re very mindful of the integrity of PSA and would never do anything to harm it."--Nat Turner

My laugh of the day. Fasten your seat belts, folks. This hobby is going warp speed. Hang on.

Turner emphasized that PSA, the widely used card-grading system, will be kept arms-length from the auctions business and continue to serve all customers equally, with no preference given to Goldin Auctions.

I am sure we all find that very reassuring.

It's going to get worse...

You mean when the next target is a competitor?

Nat Turner’s quote is grotesque. He didn’t do a damn thing to clean up PSA.

He claims to want to be a hobby savior, but the shady Axis including him, Goldin, PSA, etc., has turned my stomach so much that they’ve tainted all cards for me and ruined the hobby. I’m in process of selling everything because I want nothing connecting me to to those people. Bad enough we are part of the same species but that commonality I can’t do anything about.

hahahahaha

It’s a joke. AH’s were already getting favorable grades before one of them was owned by the same group that owns PSA. Now… expect Goldin to get lots of clutch grade bumps (on doctored cards) that translate to millions in sales. I bet Turner even lands some of them for his collection, lol. Handing the money to your own asset isn’t really the same as a collector winning the auction, is it?

Maybe this is why Collectors Universe was taken private.....smart move always looking ahead. These guys love them or hate them are brilliant at making money.

I’m going to keep collecting the cards I love, but I can’t see how this doesn’t really hurt the hobby (sorry for double negative).


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Yup. Just profiteers bilking an unregulated market, end of the day.

The related potential conflict would be grading more strictly for rival AHs that submit.

Exactly. Would steer all expensive material to their own AH.

Are we at a "BILLION DOLLAR FRAUD" yet, :D:D:D

I told ya so;)

And the band played on.....................

And the people stood in line and handed them their money and waited months for a receipt...............

Why wouldn't you invest in a business or hobby where your target consumers have shown that they are willing to accept almost anything and keep coming back for more?

"Thank you Sir. May I have another?"

Wasn't an auction house once part of Collectors Universe? I believe they were called Superior

Yes. Long time ago.

Beckett buying Goodwin worked out real well…. Different players for sure but time will tell how this all shakes out.

Follow the money or bitcoin....will Heritage or PWCC be next to be sold to this group???

Et tu, Brente?

But as I have posted I think they go in a different direction.

1. Company that assigns grades (values) to cards
2. Company that auctions cards

What they need to complete the trifecta would be the acquisition (or formation) of a company that makes cards.

I'm thinking they look to consolidate the TPG landscape further.

Topps valuation is probably too high. Perhaps just hire someone that doctors cards. What the heck it's happening anyway so why not keep it under one roof and capitalize. One stop shop...crack, doctor, submit, grade and auction to the public.

C'mon, they promised transparency. Who are you to be skeptical???

Just take The Savior’s word for it, LOL. And keep handing these crooks our money. Pass.

Very happy to see Goldin will have 100% PSA10s auctions. (or "look like" PSA10ish auctions)

The success of Goldin auction in the past 14 months score Mr. Goldin a $200Million deal. Congrats!

….
 

I wish I could print my own money…🤔🤔🤔

It’s sad but it’s always us small guy collectors who take it on the ass.

If it was "on" the ass that would be kinda workable. But it feels like is pretty deep "in" there. It's sad but Nat and his cronies can have the hobby. Someone in that circle will enjoy turning my 4s into 8s and 9s, PSA will enjoy the grading fees, Goldin and its owners will enjoy the commissions on the sales, and lastly someone else will enjoy them as 8s and 9s. And so the cycle goes LOL. Spread the joy.

It sure doesn't feel like they are concerned about catering to the average dealer and collector any more. True, PSA was a public company for a long long time, but even then at least from a bit of a distance it didn't feel like corporate America was running it.

Agree

I’m sure the billionaires who bought into Goldin are interested in selling $10k falsely graded PSA cards. Makes total sense.

Everyone is always talking about conflict of interest when it makes no logical sense. It’s like the “phrase of the day” or something.

Literally EVERY item that Goldin plans to sell this year (~$200m) would be less than 20% of Turner’s net worth.

Pretty sure Ken is reading all these and doesn't give a f'k since he is $200Mil richer and can offer $2Mil to take over this site.


Nowaday this hobby is more "corrupted" than ever, I feel so bad only Mastro's people got sent to jail and not others.

It's amazing how there is no talk about the FBI being in Chicago during the last national.....wonder if anything came of it???

Leon's gonna need to build an addition to hold $2mil worth of type cards.

Any non psa cards in their auction must be altered eh?


Timberrrrrrr

Why would being altered stop them from being crossed?:eek::cool:

I envision the big shots in a meeting saying, A Rising Tide Lifts all boats...these people need us more then we need them. We have this market cornered, relax.

And Stevie Cohen’s


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You are 100 percent wrong.

“We are operating the same today as we did yesterday,” Goldin told SC Daily. “There will be a firewall between Collectors Universe and Goldin. I will not get better service or preferential grading from Collectors Universe."

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...ong%20jack.gif

Graders know whose cards they are grading, no? So how can there be a firewall as a practical matter?

Firewall defines here as a separate special tunnel to bump authentic graded cards to 10s.

Could not agree more. Let's go back to REA and Brockelman Auctions for consignments.

It certainly appeared that PWCC and others had preferential treatment at PSA (and SGC) and they are not even an insider. How is one to really take Ken Goldin seriously?

And at the end of the day does Ken or anyone else really need to come out and assure anyone? Personally I would feel better if they would have just told us all if we don't like the new arrangement to pound sand.

Wow
 

Is there a Fox in the hen house????!

Take him as a business man who is about making himself richer.

Plenty of AH's that don't even come close to questioning potential impropriety, REA, Brockelman, LOTG, Collector Connection, just to name a few. I feel more comfortable supporting these AH's both on the buy side and consignment side.

When Goldin got started in his auctions it was the little guy like us that got him off the ground and made him successful but we're long gone now. It's all those millionaires and billionaires that you see buying in his auctions. To hell with the little guy anymore. Oh how we forget.

A loose affiliation of millionaires and billionaires?

I see nothing wrong with that, on principle. I work to make myself richer too.

These are the days of miracle and wonder….

Neither do I, it’s his prerogative.

While it is true that the high dollar auction items cater to the super wealthy, I regularly win items in Goldin Auctions that are worthy of being in collections but not worth hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars.

I give Ken credit for growing a company from the old days 25 years ago on late night TV(literally 3-5 AM) when he was hyping Mantle and Dimaggio autographs and 1987 Topps wax boxes to his current windfall.

There are still deals to be had for collectors in most of his auctions and I assume there will continue to be. You just have to look harder if you are not a multi millionaire to find the underpriced collector gems. Star by searching by lowest priced items on the final auction day and when you reach your limit price wise, stop looking.

When all items in his auctions start bringing 5 figures and up, I will stop looking. Until then, I will look no matter who owns the company.

And I agree with a few others, good for him and I don't blame him one bit for taking a couple hundred million for his company.

It bears repeating, yet again.

Stuff trumps all.

It’s a Asset Commodity Investment Opportunity to all of them in this firm....I don’t care where their roots come from or what they may claim to have as a “collection” that’s bull sh$ It’s all about big ticket items and their returns.

It seems there's huge money these days in high grade slabbed cards with manufactured scarcity, particularly basketball. I do wonder if that model is sustainable over the long term.

An anonymous post praising Ken Goldin. I am not surprised.

Despite their BS Emails about the strength, popularity, and long-term potential I think they know this will only last so long, they have an exit strategy when the time comes. Until then they will keep leveraging every facet of this market pumping all the way....nothing has stopped them thus far.....TaKe It with a grain of salt.

That would be my belief -- that eventually the music stops.
I can't believe real people are going to continue to pay these astronomical sums on these type of cards for the indefinite future.

Honestly, this isn't super surprising. Nat Turner did an interview on SportsCardsLive a few weeks back and briefly talked about where he wanted to take PSA/CU Group in the future. He said that the "trust and faith in" the PSA brand was a big part of its value, especially with newer collectors, and thought it could be tapped in to. It sounded more like he was leaning towards a storage/buy/sell marketplace operated by PSA, but running an AH fits the bill!

I think that only time will tell whether or not the sale is a net positive. Fingers crossed that this all goes well!

(Link to his interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9Cbq8W98MY)

"especially with the newer collectors" is key here as those of us who have been around since the beginning have seen how trusworthy psa is!

This is the long distance call.

Skipping ALL the other arguments on this subject, from what I hear almost NO ONE works harder (and will probably continue to do so) than Ken Goldin and that hard work has garnered him quite a payday.

It's nice to see someone who works hard and inspires his team to do as well get rewarded.

Rich

Not any longer...

and I agree with Rich right above here. Ken works very hard and it's paying off.
.

Just ask my dead grandmother about home shopping network. Its working smarter, not harder these days.

All I can Say is we have reached a point where people want outrageous prices, comparable to PWCC, Goldin, Heritage Ect.....this is exactly what the auction houses and PSA want. The only time I’ve ever seen their sale numbers is in their auctions I’ve never seen on bSt or in person at shows people paying that number in cash. Never seen it. Have You?

Everything Is Cornered in their favor, brilliant move by that Group.

This also gave me quite a chuckle.

We all know PSA has graded altered cards and when shown the proof, they just shrug it off and go on their merry way with no consequences other than increasing their bottom line.

We all also know that many AHs have auctions at about the same time and they often will send cards in to PSA to be graded before the auction. What's to keep PSA from slow walking submissions from other AHs who have an upcoming auction at about the same time as Goldin so as to miss the next auction while getting Goldin submissions through on time to make it to their auction? Purely speculation on my part, but based on the previous paragraph, what's to stop them? The other AHs do get the graded cards and can have them in the following auction. No problem right? If you have an ungraded card that would get more money graded and you want the AH to send it in for you, who would you choose as the AH?

In regards to Ken himself, I don't know him. I've gotten items in his auctions and have no complaints about any of the transactions. I don't begrudge him for making the big bucks. Kudos to him. But, it seems some people here love sayings, so here are a few:

“If you choose bad companions, no one will believe that you are anything but bad yourself.” ― Aesop, Aesop's Fables

"For they that sleep with dogs, shall rise with fleas." -- John Webster

"It takes 20 years to build a reputation and five minutes to ruin it. If you think about that, you'll do things differently." -- Warren Buffett

“Don't make a deal with the devil, if you do you will lose something important that you once had.” ― Karen Dang

(Yes these are cut and pasted and I do not vouch for who actually said what.)

Bottom line, considering the "integrity" of PSA, I think this is bad for the hobby.

The play this Nat Turner and his cronies are making with this unholy alliance of PSA and Goldin is so easy to see coming at us. Of course they don’t care how brazen it is, because there is no regulation — and degenerate addicts will bid for their “fix” of stuff no matter what. They’ll make one hell of a profit when they flip these businesses (after they’ve driven up valuations thru a steady stream of record sales of their slabs at their AH, trumpeted in the media). We will see eye opening sales of favorable grades, bought by investors in both companies, just like when one of the PSA 10 Jordan outlier sales was bought and brandished by someone who has a stake in the investor group. They expect us to whip out pom poms and cheer it all on as our card values rise.

P.T. Barnum might have been in the card business if alive today.

Yes he would.

We have so many suckers and sheep who buy it all, it’s a addiction fueled on passion of sports, hobby , and money.. Not All So Called Investment Cards Go Up, Oh wait or does it it ? Especially if you send it to to Privileged AH’’s better yet one that was bought out by the same IG that grades the cards!!!

I don’t begrudge anyone who sends their cards to Goldin or PWCC they market the hell out of their brand and service. It’s all tied in the Money is being made by the big players we are just along for the ride. I’ll say it again Not Every Investment Always Goes Up. Once the big guys find another way to make more money they will move on.

If it all wasn't built on the back of altered cards, it wouldn't bother me nearly so much.

That’s the worst part Peter, I agree with you.

Wait wouldn’t Nat and his Company Say our Experts Reviewed the Card and Deem it as Authentic Original Unaltered and Properly Graded?

Or the PWCC Guy Aka Mr Conservation/Restoration

When someone else controls the horizontal and the vertical, it's hard to adjust your TV set. Outer Limits opening for those not ancient.

To me, it’s more like a Twilight Zone. Especially the episode titled “The Obsolete Man”. PSA is “The State” with their conformist hypnotized masses going after the small guy who refuses to comply with the “emperor’s clothes” mentality.

The independent Collector is personified in Burgess Meredith, who has to brilliantly outwit and out-maneuver the “leader” who seemingly possesses all control.

Perhaps 1% of the forum will follow/appreciate this. But still had to write it, as it’s a perfect analogy.

Spot on!