Possible new tax law?
 

This was posted over on blowout. Haven't seen it posted here, unless I missed it.

But it looks like a new tax law could be coming where the ebay 20k and 200 transactions goes away and the new limit will now be anything over $600..

* Also you should pay taxes no matter what whether you get a 1099 or not.


https://www.politico.com/news/2021/0...-losers-473902

From article "For those in the sharing economy, the issue is provisions that would dramatically reduce the threshold at which companies like eBay, GrubHub, Doordash and others would have to report to the IRS the earnings of people who use their platforms to make money. The users would also have to be given the information.

Currently, that’s only necessary when someone earns more than $20,000 through at least 200 transactions. Democrats would drop that to anyone earning more than $600, regardless of the number of transactions.

That’s projected to generate a lot of money — $8.4 billion over the next decade, according to an official forecast — because people are more likely to pay taxes on their earnings when they know someone else is telling the IRS how much they made."

I don't see what the issue is. If you are reporting sales/profits and paying tax, this is irrelevant. Only those that are not paying the tax that they should are going to be upset.

Exactly

I do report all, and had over the $ amount but "only" 197 transcations last year!

Precisely! The doomsayers are just a bunch of tax cheats unhappy that they may not be able to free-ride on the rest of us anymore. Well on behalf of everyone who pays their taxes:

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...joanna%202.jpg

BTW, the $600 mark isn't chosen at random. It is already used as a floor for things like casual labor taxation.

MA changed to the $600 mark couple years back for things like ebay and stuff..

Just figured some members here would like to know about a possible change so they can keep better records of purchases and sales going forward.

Or, just maybe, some of us are way past tired for getting hit up again for more taxes. You ever think of that? I pay more than my fair share of taxes but am sick and tired of politicians of finding new ways to hit us up for more.

I agree get ready for more they’re only going up.

Proceed with crying towel and wet floor signs about political references this is about baseball cards lol

Either way irregardless all sales had to be reported before anyways

IT'S NOT MORE TAXES: IT IS THE SAME TAXES YOU ARE ALREADY OBLIGATED TO PAY UNDER CURRENT LAW!

Forgive me for shouting but this sort of false statement is so frustrating for me to read that it makes me see red. A change to a reporting threshold does not impose new taxes. You won't pay one red cent in taxes more than you already owe--but for some people it means that cheating on their taxes gets much harder because the IRS will be able to check the data you submit in your tax return against what eBay reports to it. That's it.

Exactly.

If I hire somebody to help clean my house, or mow my lawn, I have to report what I pay them to the IRS as soon as that amount hits $600 during a calendar year.

Nobody actually does it, but technically that has been the law for a long time. It has nothing to do with Democrats and Republicans and Trumpers and non Trumpers.

You're not getting hit up again for more, you are getting hit up again for those that you already owe but evidently have not been paying.

Doug "pay your damn taxes and shut up about it" Goodman

MA has been $600 for as far back as (at least) the year 2000. That's the tear that a member of the MA Tax Commissioner's office sat in my office for 7 hours at the Warped tour show so that they could make sure that the 100 or so bands I was paying to play on the Warped tour that day were all compliant with their filings of MA state tax. Even though only the Bosstones and the Dropkick Murphy's were the only MA residents.

It's only in the last few years that they have realized that ebay sales were a similar "missed" tax stream, due to people not filing on their own, so they have started to crack down.

Doug

Another way to state it would be "Democrats would have us follow the laws that are already on the books and stop everyone whether Democrat, Republican or other with failing to report income on which $8.4 billion in tax is due."

I was waiting for a flight at Logan one day a few years ago, and was treated to a surprise DM's concert. They had rigged up their gear and were playing right there in the terminal.

If you had $601 of fun listening to them please pay your "enjoyment tax" as you exit to the left.

Nice.

What a great band, and a really good bunch of guys.

So now it looks like this whole free-ride thing is coming to a close with ebay. I haven't sold a thing on fleabay for over a decade so I have no clue what it's been like. Even when I did sell things, I didn't sell much.


BUYERS TAXES
Ebay adds the local tax to the final sale (sans shipping). My local tax rate sucks, it's 8.75%. It sucks but the assumption is the correct local tax will go to the city I live in (well, at least that's the assumption). If a seller wants to pay the going rate/price for a card, do they include the sales tax in their consideration to buy the card? You know the buyer will always include the tax in the total cost of the card.


SELLER TAXES
Maybe that's why sellers seem to have crazy BIN prices. Perhaps those sellers have been paying their taxes all along and included their taxes as a cost of doing business. Just think, by the time a seller pays the fleabay fees and income taxes, that could account for 25% or more of the sale price.

So, is a seller supposed to absorb the loss and sell the goods for the going rate or does the seller add another 25% to the final sale price to cover all the fees and taxes? I figure if you're a seller you're going to want to collect the going rate for the card (after the fees and taxes have been paid out).


Now - do I give a crap. Not really. I figure I'll pay what I want for a card. Regarding sellers - well, time to belly up to the bar and pay the taxes on the business that allows you to receive income.

Hey Leon, when are does the BST start instituting the sales tax and income tax collections? :p

I think it's great. Let's flood the IRS with 1099s, they can't audit us all!

The seller is supposed to do what has always been done and factor in expenses when selling an item.

(cost of card) + (costs to sell) + (profit wanted) = selling price

Pretty simple.

Obviously, if you bought a Steve Sax rookie card for $20 the specifics of your selling price equation may have to change a bit to :

(cost of card) + (costs to sell) - (loss willing to accept) = selling price

Doug "I tend to use the second equation" Goodman

Spoken like a true tax cheat

I’m not going to bash anyone for his/her tax affairs. That is between that person and federal, state, and local governments. I know each state has different laws, but how many sellers on this site’s b/s/t section are collecting and properly paying sale’s taxes? :D

This thread has given me a new faith in humanity.

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It's really simple, run and treat your eBay sales as a business. The (legal) deductions available to one running a business will mitigate any tax issues you might have otherwise. Just a sample of expense deductions:

Postage (in and out)
eBay Fees
PayPal Fees
Taxes (some)
Accounting/bookkeeping/legal fees
Mileage (with some limitations)
Office Supplies (everything from envelopes to ink for the printer)
Subscriptions (services like Worthpoint and VCP)

That's just a start.

I want to tell you folks a story here about something that happened in Canada a few years ago. Now, I can't remember all the details, but it goes something like this: the CRA (Canada Revenue Agency) wanted Paypal to hand over all the information on their Canadian users. The reason for this was obvious: lots of Canadians were making big Paypal sales and not reporting it. I think Paypal at first refused to hand anything over, but then I believe the CRA went to the Federal Court and the judge gave Paypal two options: either cooperate with the CRA or get out of the country. Paypal had no choice here but to hand everything over. I'm pretty sure THOUSANDS of Canadians got into BIG trouble! Now, I don't think police officers kicked their doors down and arrested them or anything like that, however, they did have to pay their taxes AND interest AND massive fines!

This will be a significant expense for the eBays and Ubers of the world. I hope they remember to claim that on their taxes. :)

Less funny is that the added expense will be passed on to customers.

I am
 

I am, and I pay sales tax and Federal and State income taxes on my sales at card shows, and I pay the use tax for my out of state purchases when tax is not collected.

Don't assume that everyone is crooked.

I'm all for no Joe U.S. Citizen paying any taxes until all elected officials have theirs paid in full.

Amen. Not sure how it gets twisted.

I will also point out that Brick and Mortar stores (of all types) have complained about this disadvantage and the supreme court decision helped to level that field as well. So for 99 percent of the stores in all fields, this does level the field a bit.

Regards
Rich

As I posted in the thread on Blowout, I am shocked that it is only expected to gain approx $1B a year in new income to the Federal coffers. Compare that to the $4 thousand billion dollars approved in stimulus packages in the last year...

I have to think that closing the auction house reporting loophole will be next.

Hahaha.

We all know.

It's easy to see the cheats, they request "paypal friends and family" to avoid paying fees which should be paid for the purchae of merchandise.

No, that’s to avoid the 3%+ in PayPal transaction fees. Has nothing to do with taxes. And to my chagrin, the last time I let a Net54 buyer pay with regular PayPal, he requested a refund when the card wasn’t to his satisfaction. No problem I think. I am a man of my word and my reputation is far more important than money. Well, it’s a problem when I don’t get refunded the 3% PayPal fee on the sale of those goods. Never again.

Carry on.

That sucks, the guy could have easily emailed you to say he wanted a refund.

Doug "My middle name is Richard, so trust me when I tell you that guy was a..." Goodman

irregardless is not an actual word......

To clarify, I simply won’t sell on Net54 using PayPal goods again. PayPal f/f is fine. And the guy asking for the refund did everything right. I thought I did everything right. PayPal just wouldn’t refund the PayPal fees from using goods when I made the refund. I was dumbfounded.

Irregardless of what you believe...irregardless is a word

In both Merriam-Webster and Oxford dictionaries...also allowed in Scrabble

https://www.merriam-webster.com

irregardless

*adverb

ir·​re·​gard·​less*|*\*ˌir-i-ˈgärd-ləs**\

Definition of*irregardless

nonstandard

:*REGARDLESSI told them that*irregardless*of what you read in books, they's some members of the theatrical profession that occasionally visits the place where they sleep.— Ring Lardner

Frequently Asked Questions About*irregardless

Is*irregardless*a word?

Yes. It may not be a word that you like, or a word that you would use in a term paper, but*irregardless*certainly is a word. It has been in use for well over 200 years, employed by a large number of people across a wide geographic range and with a consistent meaning. That is why we, and well-nigh every other dictionary of modern English, define this word. Remember that a definition is not an endorsement of a word’s use.

Does*irregardless*mean the same thing as*regardless?

Yes. We define*irregardless*as "regardless." Many people find*irregardless*to be a nonsensical word, as the*ir- prefix usually functions to indicate negation; however, in this case it appears to function as an intensifier. Similar*ir- words, while rare, do exist in English, including*irremediless*("remediless"),*irresistles s*("resistless") and*irrelentlessly*("relentlessly).

Is*irregardless*slang?

We label*irregardless*as “nonstandard” rather than “slang.” When a word is*nonstandard*it means it is “not conforming in pronunciation, grammatical construction, idiom, or word choice to the usage generally characteristic of educated native speakers of a language.”*Irregardless*is a long way from winning general acceptance as a standard English word. For that reason, it is best to use*regardless*instead.

First Known Use of*irregardless

1795, in the meaning defined*above

History and Etymology for*irregardless

probably blend of*irrespective*and*regardless



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Make sure you know your trading partner well.

All these tax loving, Gov't worshippers responding are approaching it from the business angle. I assume many of them sell cards for a living. That's fine. They should pay their taxes. What about the collector?

What this does is it takes something that was a fun hobby and turns it into a business for everyone. I buy and sell cards all the time. Sometimes I'll buy a card and then turn around and sell it a few months later because my interests change, I find an upgrade or I just want the money for something else. Many different reasons. How many collectors have an accountant to keep track of their baseball card purchases?

Glad to see everyone here is on the up and up. I’m sure that card you sold to your buddy for a $100 bill gets reported 100% of the time.

I’m sure you don’t go over the speed limit either.

We all have our problems.:)

To me this is more about the guys doing bulk submissions to grading companies, having a eBay store selling cards, and using cards to make cash who DO NOT pay taxes or even have a business license. I know those that do it make nice little excuses on why it is OK. In reality they are screwing over every dealer who pays taxes and every citizen by not paying their share while using the services they provide.

Here is a novel thought, Personally I could give 2 Sh&Ts what anyone else does in regards to taxes when it comes to selling, buying, or trading their baseball cards. It's not my business. Worrying about things I have zero control over I tend to avoid, it's not productive or good for me to worry about things I have no control over.

I think the tax hawks on here makes their posts as a CYA. Some posts have expressed paranoia about the IRS following a cyber trail. So they want to look aligned with the Gestapo to throw them off the path.
I doubt any collector pays taxes on sales they do. And further doubt that they lose an iota of sleep over it.

Just post the most relevant part next time...

"*Irregardless* is a long way from winning general acceptance as a standard English word. For that reason, it is best to use *regardless* instead."

Somebody skipped Change Management training. ;)

Yes, I agree pay your taxes on your net earnings.

What I have never understood is why something needs to be taxed more than once (sales tax). If its new, yes, tax it initially. But when its resold and resold and resold again (like cards on ebay), sales tax should be excluded because that item was already taxed. This is always a complaint of antique store owners.

sales tax rant....sorry

I've thought the same thing about buying a used car, but unfortunately, it doesn't seem to work that way.

A used car doesn't get sold nearly as often as a baseball card. How many 1909 used cars are still changing hands?

So are you saying a used car dealership should pay taxes because those cars are only sold once or twice? But a card reseller shouldn't because cards are resold often??

Just trying to make sense of your post.

Pretty much yes. A car is a regulated and licensed product that is "used" by each purchaser and exacts a toll on the community...requiring infrastructure, pollution, drunk drivers...or worse yet texting teenage drivers. It makes sense to me it would be taxed differently than a 2.5" x 3.5" piece of cardboard that just sits there and changes hands 50 times or more in it's lifetime.

So the person working full or part time selling a regulated, licensed product should pay taxes, but not a person working full or part time selling baseball cards?

I think you've gone off target. We're talking about sales tax. The person selling doesn't pay the sales tax, the person buying does.

For Sale
 

Anyone want to buy my used Radar Detector from 1975? X and K bands.... guaranteed to let you beat Smokey 75% of the time !

I'm not taking a position here, but sales taxes are generally a tax on a financial transaction, not on an individual item. So it doesn't matter how many times a particular item has been bought or sold, it's the act of the sale that triggers the sales tax.

The way it works in California is that the person holding the valid reseller permit (the merchant in most cases) is "...responsible for collecting...sales tax..."

A merchant may by all means NOT charge a customer a sales tax but is still liable to remit the tax on that transaction to the taxing authority, so in a sense the merchant selling can sometimes end up paying the tax.

What? I've refunded several times things that were paid by goods and never got charged fees. You have to use the "refund" option inside the original transaction to do it but the fees are always removed. Unless the buyer paid by F&F, in which case you'd have to send F&F back to do the refund with no fees.

That's a new Paypal policy within the last year or so. They don't refund the paypal fees (roughly 3%) on refunds

I do have a serious question about this that I've seen asked on other threads and other boards but never I've seen a clear and concise answer...and usually it turns in to arguments.

Precursor: I have a very simple tax situation currently and I file my taxes with the Standard Deduction (i.e. I don't itemize).

Question: If I buy a baseball card for $1000, then I sell that card for $1500, should I report and pay tax on the $1500 transaction, or do I just report and pay tax on the $500 profit (and ensure I have documentation for my purchase price).

Remember, my taxes are simple and I have no interest in filing as business, incorporating, etc. I just want to comply with the tax laws in the easiest way possible.

You would pay 28% on the gain($500) as a collectible sale. You may also pay 3.8% more as part of the Obama Care Act depending on your AGI.

Appreciate the answer, thanks!

My wife reminds me about every dollar I spend on cards!

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The only difference is you are cheating a private company where if you lie on your taxes you are cheating the government. Either way you are a cheat.

Thanks Glyn. I love you man. You are truly the most interesting man in the world.

No, collectibles are taxed *at most* at 28% (if you've had the item for more than a year). Anything you hold for less than a year is taxed at ordinary income rates. Whatever your marginal bracket is, that's the tax rate on the gain.

Collectibles have their own special treatment. Ordinary capital gains get taxed at 0, 15, or 20% depending on the rest of your tax situation. Gains on collectibles are taxed as ordinary income, with a cap of 28%. So if your total situation leaves you in the 12% tax bracket, your tax on the gain is 12%. If you're in the 32% marginal bracket or higher, then your tax is 28%.

Pre-1987 the max rate on all capital gains was 28%. The Taxpayer Relief Act of 1997 reduced the max rate on most capital gains to 20%, but left the top rate on collectibles at 28%.

Another way in which collectible gains are different is that typically you can't net your gains against your losses. (You usually can if you're actively buying and selling.) You sell two blocks of stock, one with a gain of $500 and one with a loss of $500, you net the two and no tax is due. But if you sell a card for a $500 gain and another for a $500 loss, you still owe tax on the $500 gain.

Disclaimer--I don't see many collectible sales in my tax work. But I am a total tax nerd, and I enjoy wandering off into the weeds of the tax code.

Bill

Appreciate your response, that's the clearest I've ever had the tax on collectables explained.

This is helpful but what does this mean for the collector? Should all collectors become businesses so they can deduct expenses/losses on the cards they sell?

Can I deduct the cost of goods sold, eBay fees, sales tax collected, shipping etc. if I just take the standard deduction and don’t itemize? To me it seems like eBay will send me a 1099 with all those included and I will owe income tax on the whole amount since I am a hobbyist not a business. Is that correct?

Ebay has been inconsistent in their sales tax collection since the start and people have complained about it for years. In fact the only reason why ebay collects sales tax is because the Supreme Court overturned their 1992 decision to allow internet business who don't have a physical presence in the state to collect on their behalf.

It's not that I don't trust ebay (I don't), but I'd like a complete break down on these taxes and "applicable fees" with an audit.

Is ebay including the shipping charge as a part of the overall sale and basing the amount of tax on that? I'm not a fan of ebay for all sorts of reasons and they're not the most transparent company to do business with.

Paypal 1099?
 

Does PayPal send out 1099's ?-say a buyer pays $100,000 for products through their system--

A 1099 is for a seller.

new tax reporting law
 

FYI--I was informed the new reporting 600.00 in sales law doesn't go into effect until next year (2022)

If you find the right screen in eBay's seller pages, they do have a breakdown chart of shipping/fees/etc vs. the straight sale price of the item. It's in one of the blowout tax threads. If I find the instructions to get to it, I'll update this post.

I took a look at that part of the bill and it wasn't clear to me if it takes effect in 2022, meaning people will first receive a 1099 in 2023 or in 2022 for sales that took place in 2021.

It's been a long time since I signed up for eBay or PayPal so I don't remember, but I don't think I had to give them my social security number to get an account. Also, I have only sold a few things on eBay so maybe it's different for large volume sellers, but how can either eBay or PayPal submit any tax information to the IRS about sales someone makes without a social security number to submit it under?

By the end of the year, eBay will require most if not all sellers to enroll in Managed Payments, which requires their social to be provided for enrollment, so it will be a moot point for eBay. I would imagine other selling platforms though will require their sellers to provide whatever information is necessary for them to remain federally compliant as a condition of continued use of their platform as a seller. I see a lot of TOS revisions coming.

Agreed. Support your local shops!

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