FS: 1948 Leaf Jackie Robinson PSA 4.5
 

FS: 1948 Leaf Jackie Robinson PSA 4.5

$55,000

hmmm....something looks fishy here? Explanation from the OP would be nice.

and it was copied to the front page, from our BST section, for a few more eyes.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1451065

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I am just sick how much this card has appreciated. I would have LOVED to have retired early!!

The card was removed for sale from eBay and MySlabs at that time and this individual was provided the evidence that the card is trimmed.

This same individual has now relisted the card on both eBay and MySlabs as shown below for $55,000-$70,000.

Will also be curious to hear the explanation behind this.

If the sale is made, maybe PSA will pay out on the total... or maybe not.

Card looks trimmed along the left side, likely with the intent of improving the centering.

I don't like the two left side corners. The apparent alteration is more evident when looking at the reverse side, in which the trimmed edge and 2 corners don't match the natural wear of the opposite side. In addition, the card appears narrow side-to-side, and is quite loose within the holder.

Was it BODA that outed this one?

Never Get Cheated

Now we can post comments in bst threads?

Different rules for different fools.

Any card ever sold by pwcc should be mentioned in the listing here on the bst.

Perhaps PSA reviewed it already and somehow reaffirmed the grade.

Classic.

Thanks for the link Peter...

Amazing how the average person can immediately see the alteration from a small cell phone screen. Yet PSA can't (or won't) detect it with card in hand! :confused:

Never Get Cheated!

00000001

Yes, if someone is selling a fraudulent card there can be comments. There is precedence for it too. Show proof and show it being sold on our forum and it will be made known, I assure you.

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They thought they could sneak this by? It has to be done with no regard for the cards outing as trimmed. Evidence there is no standing behind their product.

Well, they have a new owner/group now. Maybe....

Looking forward to hearing from the seller here.

Do you think we will?

WOW, looks like attitudes of some have changed. I remember this exact subject come up a couple years ago and many said all that mattered was what the PSA flip said.

Is there anything to even say? Sucks to see..

Mark

You are spot-on with your observation.

Hey guys,
For comparison, here is my JRobby which I can guarantee you has not tampered with. I
acquired this card in the Spring of 1949 having pulled it out of a 1-cent LEAF wax-pack.
https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...by1949leaf.jpg
TED Z

T206 Reference
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File under american greed

It's not a good look obviously but let's see if he defends it.

It's getting so the only cards we can trust are the ones Ted Z pulled from packs as a snot nosed kid.

In 1949. Lol.

Hey Phil

How dare you call me.... "a snot nosed kid" :)

Shucks, I was just a shy-guy.

Whatever....I pulled this JRobby from a BOND BREAD package in 1947.


https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...by1948BT_1.jpg


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

A term of endearment learned from my father. If you ever get your cards stabbed make sure they put your name on the label, they would definitely carry a provenance premium.

Hey Guy

I was only 10 years old in 1949....and there were times I was referred by some names much "wilder" than a snot-nosed kid.

Sorry, but I have an aversion for "Graded" cards. Perhaps, my Grandson will get my cards graded when he inherits my collection.

Anyhow, thanks for interjecting some humor into this thread. We could use lots more humor in today's overall situation.


TED Z

T206 Reference
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Ted - I am in awe of you holding on to cards for this long. Now, that's discipline!

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And Ted, if you're ever open to accepting applications to be your grandson, please let us know. :)

Much respect to tez z octavio

Ted, did the card look like that straight out of the pack?? Or was it handled as a kid?

Bobby

These 1949 LEAF's were the first colorized BB cards in our neighborhood. We young dudes "LOVED" them.

We flipped them, scaled them towards the steps on our porches (like playing horseshoes). And, the Babe Ruth, Joe D. and Jackie were certainly our favorites.

Now, to answer your question. This is what these cards looked like right out of their wax-pack......

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...DiMaggio50.jpg


TED Z

T206 Reference
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Ted's Cards
 

Will Ted be selling tickets to see his collection? I'll be the first in line. Has to be ridiculous..It's classic, anytime someone asks about a certain card or year Ted pops one up and then a couple more variations for fun. Great to watch. Thanks as always.

I must say, I’m always happy to see your posts and sharing of your cards/backstories to them. Something about seeing these cards still with the person who pulled them is cool.

Ditto!!! That is amazing!! I remember pulling a Fernando Valenzuala rookie card and thinking I was hot stuff!!!

And?

Very jealous not only of the cards kept but the experience pulling them. I guess maybe you don't always know when you've got something iconic in your hands like a Jackie Leaf but I can't imagine anyone in the future will be thrilled by my stories of pulling Don Mattingly cards.

AJ had time to respond. Guess it was sort of black and white so no need to. Sayonara....

AJ sent a message to me through another member. Here it is. (and for the time being the ban has been lifted :) so AJ can respond if he wants to)



AJ Johnson Asked Me to Send This Note To You-

Hi Leon,
I've been crazy with a work project that just finished up and didn't get a chance to respond on net54. I'm in negotiations with PSA to buy back the card and needed to establish a real world value for the card, which is why it was listed on ebay/net54/myslabs etc. The card was never going to be sold but figured if I could show PSA what someone was willing to pay for it in that grade would strengthen my case. I also hoped that it would garner some controversy (which it did :-) which will help my bargaining position. My position spelled out in a net54 thread is unchanged. If a TPG mistakenly grades an altered card, they should stand behind their guarantee and buy back the card at fair market value.

cheers,

A.J.


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yes the ultimate goal is to have PSA (if they deem the card trimmed) to reholder the card in an auth-trimmed holder and pay me the difference between purchase price and established market price. I've got a whole slew of offers that I declined on Ebay and two written offers to show as proof.

I guess there are no comps available through VCP or the PSA website for a 4.5 Leaf Jackie.

no not really (especially given the craziness in the last 90 days). And I wasn't going to let PSA dictate what the market would bring

When did you buy this and from whom?

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

(thought it was PWCC) after researching it's tcale6hgl seller on ebay. July 2020

nvm

Only July sale reported is this. And it's the same cert.
7/25/2020 $17,500.00 4.5 233657167852 eBay tcale6hgl Best Offer 27581063

yes that's my purchase

So one bad Leaf we can't blame on Brent LOL. Unless of course he sold it previously.

Which he did, actually.
9/28/2017 $4,000.00 eBay (pwcc_auctions) 401407466019

And according to this, https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1407680 it changed in size after it was purchased for 1K, ungraded and before it was listed by PWCC for 4K.

I had multiple offers on ebay for around $40k and I've got an offer from a private party of $45k (which the buyer will write up if requested). Best case, PSA re-holders it (if deemed trimmed) and pays me out the difference of $17,500 and $45,000. ($27,500)
Or they can buy it outright at $45k. Steve or Joe if you're reading this...I'll wait by the phone.

I am still sick I sold my '6' for $2,200....lololol.......Man, I could be sitting on a beach right now.

I think you will be told to go back to the buyer you bought the card from and get your money back.

All you’re getting from PSA is an Opinion That’s All.

US Attorneys Office Please Prosecute these card Trimmers, I know it’s super hard to prove beyond a reasonable doubt even with a ton of circumstantial evidence and physical cards, with before and after scans, however until anyone can see the said person-actually doctoring the card I think it’s extremely difficult.

I’m call For Civil Law Suits Going After Card Doctors, hit them in their wallets.

LOL. I think we can all point to sales like that. How about selling not one but two PSA 8 Orrs for around 3K each?:mad:

That was Steve Sloan's letter when all this broke but it isn't how their guarantee is worded.

I wonder parenthetically if Nat will keep the guarantee in place or do away with it as another grading company did.

That’s a good question. I guess we will see.....I fell bad for the owner of this card.

If Aj makes 28K off it and gets it off the market, why feel badly for him? Seems like a win win.

That would be great ! I was referencing if AJ is told by PSA to go back to whom you bought the card for said refund, then I would feel bad for him.

He took the risk bought the card at the time he should be able to reap the gain in its uptick at Sale.

I dont disagree, but in a court of law I dont believe the market going up os just cause for "damages".

PSA should want this abomination off the market, and the only way to assure that is to deal with AJ. Of course PSA should want a lot of things they don't seem to want.

Read the guarantee. They promise to pay market value.

Thanks Peter, but again curious if the market going up has an effect on one's damages in a court of law

Ted it's too general a question. There are different types of contractual damages depending on lots of facts and circumstances including contract language, but yes, there are some where the measure of damages would include an "expectancy" -- in other words, the breaching party would have to not only make the innocent party whole but put them where they would have been had there been no breach which could include changed market conditions. Other situations might involve simply restitution, that is, restoring the amounts paid by the innocent party and returning them to where they were before the contract.

Here, though, the guarantee should control.

And if it does not there is a pretty good body of law out there on consumer fraud, unfair trade practices, etc.

I would much rather have a true psa 4.5 Jackie RC in the long term.

Thanks Peter, I can see the position now. I just couldn't see a world where "damages" would exceed the price paid for the card! Clearly market value has increased dramatically on this particular card.

Expectancy damages, and consequential damages where allowed, typically exceed purchase price in a variety of situations. That doesn't seem at all unusual to me.

What are PSA 8's going for now????

A.J.- Why didn't you just ask for offers on the BST here?

Same here lol don’t feel so bad. I still have a few Jackie 48’s but they are a 2 at best. Never sell seems to be he lessons here.

I wish I could post a pic.

This particular situ begets a more interesting possibility, and that is someone scouting for a high value card sitting in PSA holder that has been obviously trimmed, and is for that reason not selling for its true value in the market.
Say perhaps you can make an agreement with the Seller of a PSA7 51' Bowman Mantle that won't move at it's contemporaries number, for perhaps 60-70% of that value, hold for few years while the market hopefully continues to rise, then bring the card to the attention of PSA for restitution of what a truly graded card at that particular tier would bring.

You buy in at 40% below market but get to be made whole at full true value down the track, making not just the capital gain of the flip number but your bonus discount from below market purchase.


Get on the hunt boys! :D

How is PSA's guaranty supposed to work (we know it does NOT work)?

Wouldn't they pay you the difference between what you bought it for and what a PSA A is worth? I am not sure they will pay out on the upside or downside the card realized since it was acquired, since the purpose of the guaranty is to make you whole. Lets say the card had gone from $17k down to $8k (like back in 2016), what is PSA supposed to do then -- pay you the difference between $8k and the value of a PSA A?

Also, if PSA will pay out on current value rather than acquisition price, according to VCP there was a PSA 4 that sold on 1/24/21 for $20,500 and a PSA 5 sold for $56,400 on 2/28/21. These are very current and relevant comps. Seems to me that a PSA 4.5 should be worth about the average of these two, which is $38,400. So it sounds like the offers you are getting are market.

EDITED -- I now see an earlier post where apparently the buy-out is at market value.... If that is the case, then nobody with an altered card is ever incentivized to take it to PSA in a down market. I guess it goes to the heart of the propose of the guaranty and if it is PSA standing behind its "opinion" than the pay out should be at FMV, whether that is higher or less than acquisition price.

It's not that hard to look it up.

If PSA, in fact, concludes that the card in question no longer merits the PSA grade assigned or fails PSA’s authenticity standards, PSA will either:
1.Buy the card from the submitter at the current market value if the card can no longer receive a numerical grade under PSA's standards or,
2.Refund the difference in value between the original PSA grade and the current PSA grade if the grade is lowered. In this case, the card will also be returned to the customer along with the refund for the difference in value.

The current market value is determined by PSA, based in part on Sports Market Report and SMR Online values and/or recent prices realized from the marketplace. PSA will be the sole determiner of the current market value.

Thank you! And why look it up when I can delegate?!?!

AJ, I think you should get at least $42k for your card from PSA based on two recent VCP comps.

“Never Get Cheated”

So many wish you were on that beach. :)

I'm am curious how often PSA is determining that the cards have been altered. How often are they disagreeing with the results that have been presented on Blowout?

A better question might be "How often are they agreeing with the results?"

It depends largely on how damaging the altered card is to PSA's image and reputation. In the case of the perforated Cracker Jack, it was an immediate decision to compensate. But with less obvious cards, you're potentially in for the fight of your life.

What a strange beach, that requires you to have a PSA 6 JR to sit on it.

You're assuming the recent comps are legitimate sales which they may or may not be.

Just absurd that the grading company who grades the card then can review it to determine if they still agree with the grade. If not, they will compensate you. They really have very little motivation to change their initial assessment if they have to pay out on it. No independence.

Of course they don't!!!! BUT...how can you dispute the evidence in most of these instances??