T206 Wagner in Canada
 

I'm a member of a few Facebook card groups. Majority of posts made in these groups are just crap and a waste of my time, but sometimes I'll see an interesting post here and there. One of the things I love doing is talking to old-timers about how the hobby was like before I was born. I love hearing things like "in 1976, I was driving down there ... he punched him in the face ... I pulled it out of the pack ... I got twenty-five dollars for it ... my wife threw it in the fireplace ... blah, blah, blah". I guess this is because I'm a history-freak (and why I love vintage cards so much!) Anyways, so one interesting character started posting about how he was at Angelo Savelli's house in the early 1980s, and how he almost got his T206 Honus Wagner in a trade. However, Angelo later changed his mind and backed out. And then a couple of guys were like "yeah, he still has it ... very old man he is ... blah, blah, blah." I was like "huh? A Canadian owns a T206 Wagner? I had no clue! And who the heck is Angelo Savelli?" This post just reminded me that there are so many things about our hobby that I am not aware of (even in my own country!) At the same time, I was also very proud that a Canadian owns this card! :)

Does anyone here know the story behind Angelo's Wagner? When did he get it and from whom? How does it look like? Isn't a PR example worth like two million USD now? And are there any other Canadians who own this card? :)

I am not sure of the answer to your main question but a PR Wags today, depending on aesthetics, would be in the 1.3M range......Pocket change for some, unfortunately not me.

Very interesting story, I'd suspect that there's cases similar to this across America/Canada. Collections, with high value cards, not graded, that are held by people in there 70s, 80s, 90s, etc. While I can't speak for the Wagner, I have a working theory that in 10-20 years we'll see a lot of 52 Mantle's start hitting the market. All freshly graded, because of people passing away or getting too old and having no family to hand it down to.

An extremely quick search came up with this info in the Orlando Sentinel from Feb 1988.

"WHAT A CARD. Angelo Savelli is a classic addict. To get his fix, the 50- year-old retired Canadian steel worker will pay almost any price, trade almost anything he owns. The genial man is not hooked on drugs. His unquenchable passion is bubble gum cards. For more than 40 years, Savelli has collected baseball cards; football cards, too. And hockey, boxing, wrestling, basketball and even lacrosse cards. He also holds precious old cards from the 1800s and some almost unfindable cards such as the 1909 Honus Wagner, worth as much as $50,000. Savelli's collection fills three rooms."

Link - Note: very ad heavy

Three auction houses have probably already started looking for him.

hahahaha... probably very true...

I know him very well and it’s long gone.


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Another quick Google search got me these, Angelo Savelli, "The King of Cards"
Looks like he had/does have some nice stuff!
https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C...sclient=psy-ab

I believe there was also a Canadian athlete of some sort who used to own one of them. I wanna say curling. Or maybe ice hockey. I don't really follow Canadian sports.

Cute. :)

That is funny... especially considering if there was no Canada, there would likely be no hockey, basketball OR football for our American friends... at least in their current context... ONLY baseball.

You're welcome :D

Hap Shaughnessy probably had one at some point

Oh, wait! Does he have that popular blue card from 1979/80? Is it the one that you Americans drove up to astronomical levels?

Could you share a bit more info? What condition was it in? Was it sold raw? Is it graded now?

Ad heavy is an understatement.

It was sold years ago to an “American”Probably, when he sold off his baseball. I’m sure it was raw. Knowing Angelo it was probably in nice shape, he was focusing on high grade before it was fashionable.


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Nice shape, eh? Wow! He must have gotten a ton for it! On top of that, convert the US to CAD ... wooo!!

This is a great post. A Great One! :)

It took me until this post to get we were talking about Gretzky haha

WHat ?
 

...Who are the Gretzkys and which city do they play in ?...I don't follow Canadian stuff either.....

..

Is it you don't follow Canadian stuff by choice?
... or you aren't intelligent enough to do so? :D

Angelo Savelli
 

Sorry for reviving this old thread. Was just looking for information on Angelo. He once lived in the north end of Hamilton, Ontario and had a card shop briefly in the early 90s near his house. When I was 12 years old, I bought my first caramel and tobacco cards from him. An E95 Plank and a T206 Rube Waddell. Super nice fella. Fond memories indeed. Does anyone else in the Toronto area remember his shop? I think it was on Barton St. Can't believe he had a Wagner!

Ok, Hockey I get, but Basketball and Football?

Well, James Naismith was Canadian.


Steve

Please let’s not turn this into a Canada vs America thread. As a Canadian Collector I love my American collector friends


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I never went to his shop, living in Western Canada, but I do recall reading many stories about him in the collector mags that came out in the late 80's / early 90's. He was a legend in the card game here. I recall he basically spent what he had on vintage cards. He told lots of stories on how his wife was patient, but frustrated with him. That is until he started moving some of his stuff.

A name from the past...

Yes, but he had to come to the United States to 'invent' the game as the Canadians could only understand a netted stick with a ball (the official national game) or a stick with a puck. Bouncing a ball was foreign to them.

Not really knocking Canada, both sides of my family landed there 350-380 years ago and I believe I am probably distantly related to Rob Blake. His middle name, being his mother's maiden name, is my last name.

If Canadians "could only understand a netted stick with a ball or a stick with a puck", how did a Canadian singlehandedly invent the game of basketball?? Being on American soil suddenly altered his ability and inventiveness?

The whole "Canadians could only understand" also disagrees with the fact that baseball was played in eastern Canada before most of the western US, with teams in Ontario (London) beating American clubs in the International Association in the 1870s including Pittsburgh. Additionally, cricket in Canada - like in the US - was also the most popular game during the formative years of the nation before the advent of the modern big four sports.

You're not "knocking" Canada, but you're completely ignorant about it.

It's simple... no Canadian James Naismith, no basketball.

Regarding football, the early game played by US colleges resembled European association football (soccer) which included it's rules, with only Harvard adopting the ability to carry the ball instead of just kicking it, something only seen in rugby during the era.

Harvard famously played a two-game series against Montreal's McGill in 1874, with this the very first games of what would become modern football (the first game was played under the Harvard "Boston rules", the second one was played under McGill rules, and is the first rugby-style football game played in the United States). The Canadians also used a more oblong-shaped ball akin to a modern football, while Harvard still used basically a round "soccer" ball.

Additional important aspects were taken from the Canadian game....

"Harvard quickly took a liking to the rugby game, and its use of the try which, until that time, was not used in American football. The try would later evolve into the score known as the touchdown"

So again, without Canada, there would likely be no Hockey, basketball OR "American" football as we know them.

2 - I saw them both. :D

We all know Hockey was invented in England not Canada right?

Field hockey, yes.
Ice hockey, no.

Of the big four North American sports, only basketball was "invented", the rest evolved from other sports...

What do want to know and I’ll ask him?


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LOL, a throwaway joke turns into a slowburn pissing contest on Net54, a full year in the making.

Only in Americanada! :)

Actually I thought that Cornhole was ahead of Hockey as a Big Four Sport.
At least in the Ratings and Arena Attendance

You're confusing the sport with "cornholing", which is definitely more popular in the US :p

I didn't know that. Good to learn something new.

We love you too, especially your OPC baseball issues.

Ohhhh Caaannnaadddaaaa ...

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/56/a0...e42cb51afb.jpg

My maternal grandmother was born in Chicago. Her grandfather was born in the middle of nowhere Ontario(?). I couldn't believe I found him on a Canadian census.

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Is that....
 

Is that the elusive "Barbie Red Back?

:eek:

Mike

Angelo Savelli bought his Honus Wagner card in the mid to late 1970's from a Hamilton coin and card dealer on the east side of James Street North near Barton Street East not far from the old CN train station. He sold the family car to raise the money for the purchase and his wife almost left him at that point!

In the late 1990's he told me that he'd compare his Honus Wagner (which he was keeping in a safety deposit box) to the one owned by Bruce McNall and Wayne Gretzky any time because the latter was trimmed. And it was!

Angie sold the Honus Wagner card together with the rest of his Baseball, Basketball and NFL cards to a big California dealer in 2000 or so. But he kept his Hockey, CFL and Wrestling cards.

Angie's "King of Cards" shop was on the south side of Barton Street East near Sherman Avenue North. As such it was just a few blocks northwest of Ivor Wynne Stadium where the Hamilton Tiger-Cats played. I visited his shop many times.

:)

Hap didn’t stop at 1. He printed them!!!! :cool:

Thanks for your post, fox.

He was definitely way ahead of his time. He not only went after all the "big cards," but he was diversifying as well. This is something smart collectors do today because you never know which area of the hobby is going to get hot. For example, basketball cards went insane during the pandemic and still remain expensive even to this day. Look how expensive the rookies of George Mikan, Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain are.

What do you remember about your time inside his store ?? What did you see in there ? Were there 1952 Topps Mantles lined up for $500 each ?? The Howe rookie (1951 Parkhurst) was probably a $10 card back then. Also, what were most people buying back then ?? What was considered "hot?"

Interesting thoughts. My main focus has never been what a cards future value will be. I have, obviously, tried to get my cards at the best deal I can, but future values haven't been what I have focused on. It's still more of "just collecting" for me. I buy and sell sometimes, but mainly, it's just collecting.
.

They're both equally as important - the money and the collecting part. You need so much money in order to start a collection today and so we're "forced" to pay attention to the money side of it. Imagine spending thirty grand on some baseball cards and then a year later they end up being worth half that. It's gonna' hurt (even if you consider yourself only a collector).

Merry Christmas and thanks for running a great forum.

Not in the slightest. It had great value for the time, even then. Just as coveted as it is today. I'm Canadian and remember it well.

There was a store in my hometown that was famous for selling very bad fake signed cards. All with the same black Sharpie and all pathetic even to my grade school eyes. They had a Howe RC in one of those "iceberg" screw downs. This would have been around 1991. The asking price was $5K. I asked to see it. The jerk/forger begrudgingly "showed" it to me by lifting it from the shelf of the display case to the underside of the glass top. Gee, thanks. Between that move and the forgeries, I never went back. Thankfully, the place didn't last long. Scumbag.

Are you talking about the late-80s here? Early-80s? 70s? I had some old-timers tell me how cheap it used to be. They also told me that Gretzky's father used to work for Bell and would give his customers a free 79/80 OPC rookie card of his son. He had a deck of them, I was told.

I edited my post. Please check out what I added. My frame of reference was the 1980's-very early 1990's. We were talking about the Gretzky/McNall Wagner, so I assumed we were all referring to that timeframe. Anyhow, all cleared up.

Ah, okay. I see it now.

I was a kid in the 90s too and remember the Howe rookie well. Beckett priced it at 3k and that's how much dealers wanted for theirs (even if they only had VG-EX copies). They called everything back then "near mint." :D:D

But Angelo had a store before then, no ?? He was buying and selling in the disco days and cards back then were really cheap. So, that's what I was asking fox about.

No he did not. While Angie began setting up at sports card shows in the States in the 1970's, his brick and mortar store on Barton Street dated back only to 1991 or so. Here's a good article on Angie from the Hamilton Spectator:

Angelo Savelli - Hamilton Spectator; 5 April 2024

I need to scan some items for a post on my recollections of my visits to the store.

;)

I'll bet he had some great stuff coming into his store from walk-ins off the street and folks looking to sell. That's the era I wish I had a store..

By the 1990's though there had already been loads of publicity about the prices vintage cards could fetch. This created unrealistic expectations among the general public with respect to how much their not-nearly-mint "old" cards were worth.

But the mathematics of operating a card shop even in the 1970's and 1980's could be grim. Sure, the proprietor might pay next to nothing for the cards coming in the door but in turn the cards he was selling were fetching only a little something. And he had expenses like rent and salaries including his own.

That's why most card and comic retailing in all but the very biggest cities was done as an adjunct of coin/stamp shops and used book stores. I recall that the first dedicated comic store in my home town of London, Ontario opened in a very low rent outlet on Stanley Street in 1979-80 and still lasted less than a year.

:(

And to think they couldve had direct access to the old OPC factory :D

Guessing it was by that spooky Stanley Variety with its sordid history and creepy owner who mysteriously disappeared, never to be seen again.

...but I'll leave it at that, as this could pose the biggest thread derailment ever if we went off on that particular tangent. Balticfox undoubtedly knows exactly what I'm talking about, as we're apparently from the same town. Small world.

Yes, precisely. The comic shop would have been just a few doors to the west perhaps right beside Brown's Variety. Here's a pic of the Stanley Variety and its owner:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/85c5...458da68047.png

Mmmmmm, Silverwood's! I did get a milkshake there once in 1965 but I know nothing about the store's history or the owner's mysterious disappearance. But in 1977 I moved from London to Toronto for a job.

:confused:

"...but I'll leave it at that, as this could pose the biggest thread derailment ever if we went off on that particular tangent. Balticfox undoubtedly knows exactly what I'm talking about, as we're apparently from the same town. Small world."


Well…I went down that rabbit hole. Pretty disturbing stuff.

Mark


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This is an old thread that I started back in 2020. So, I don't mind you guys discussing this on here ... or just send me a PM and tell me what happened!

no, we are all interested in this rabbit hole!

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Im a transplanted oakvillian who went to Western in London and now lives in Cali. Im invested in this Rabbit hole lol

I make no claims as to the accuracy of the source, but this is what I read after seeing it mentioned earlier in the thread:

https://crimeimmemorial.com/2022/12/...ntario-canada/

Mark


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Oh man! Don't read this at 1:30am right before bed like I did. Some scary stuff!

Very disturbing. Most of these killers would've been caught today though since there are cameras everywhere now !!

Okay! I've not been able to find any pictures of Angie's King of Cards store, but here's what I remember:

The store wasn't just a small cubbyhole. It was deep and roomy with the sales counter at the back. Neither was it overflowing with boxes of cards all over the place. Yes, he had packs of new product on his sales counter but what he was mainly selling was his doubles which were all displayed nicely by sports category in glass cabinets on either side of the store plus one down the middle front to back. These vintage doubles of his went back to the 1920's. More were Hockey than Baseball but he had a fair amount of CFL plus even some Wrestling as well.

I bought this unbroken strip of Hockey coasters that were included in El Producto Cigar boxes during the 1967 Xmas season at his store:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/85c5...b8c91bec59.png https://hosting.photobucket.com/85c5...27a80ea8e9.png

https://hosting.photobucket.com/85c5...1e2c78ccae.png (Not one of mine.)

So cool! I just wish El Producto had issued several more panels.

I also bought a few 1954 Blue Ribbon CFL cards, 1956 Shredded Wheat CFL cards, 1959 Wheaties CFL cards and 1963 CFL Coins from Angie but don't ask me which since I no longer remember. Here though are some sample pics from my present day collection:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/85c5...c7f9132a6d.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/85c5...21464b2352.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/85c5...5d9e549ccc.png

https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...kjEBpVcQLG.png

https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...SCw6f9AqZa.png

Overall though it's funny the things I remember from thirty years ago:

I know I visited Angie's store on 19 November 1994. I had passed up attending the Vanier Cup game at Toronto's SkyDome that day even though my beloved University of Western Ontario Mustangs were playing the University of Saskatchewan Huskies for the title. You see Western had beaten Saskatchewan handily every time they'd faced each other previously in the playoffs and I was confident Western would cruise to another victory. Well Western blew a seventeen point lead in the fourth quarter and had to march down the field with less than a minute to play to score a game tying field goal. Final score:

Western 50 Saskatchewan 40 (OT)

So I missed a great game!

I took my card collecting partner from 1963-65, Tony, to visit Angie at his store once or twice. On one of those occasions (perhaps the day before the 1996 Grey Cup game in Hamilton) Angie was dealing with a twelve year old kid who had $10 to spend on either a Pavel Bure or a Sergei Federov card. I clearly remember Angie saying to the kid "I'd go for Sergei Federov. Pavel Bure is up-and-down but you're not going to go wrong with Federov."

Tony and I of course kept straight faces and said nothing at all. When we left the store, Tony turned to me with a grin on his face and said "Yup! Old Ang sure can't go wrong selling the kid a Sergei Federov card for ten bucks!"

Then another time when I dropped in on Angie not long before he closed up shop, he suggested we go to Sam's Hotel & Tavern just a very few steps to the east so we could continue chatting about cards and sports. It was your regular working class bar and though it was rather early in the evening there were already two working girls in the bar one of whom was wearing a bright red dress. They weren't knockouts but they were alright. When it came time to order, Angie said to me "You know what beer I like these days? It rhymes with whores. It's Coors Light!" From his comment I drew two conclusions. Angie didn't like good beer. I mean I would have guessed he'd have ordered Labatt's IPA (my father's choice) or 50 Ale, Molson Export Ale or Carling Red Cap Ale but he opted for an American near beer instead. Secondly he didn't approve of the whores. (Being more liberal minded in such matters myself, their presence bothered me not at all.) So neither booze nor women tempted Ang. All he needed were his cards!

He regularly sneered at the frenzied collecting of the junk wax sets and some of the prices the manufactured "scarcities" fetched. He told me one time in 1996 or so that he did like the Hockey Pogs though! This was probably because Pogs targetted kids and not adult collectors.

Some years later Angie told me about an incident where the cops had phoned him to leave the house because they'd got a tip of a planned home invasion. The cops then apprehended two armed thugs who had pulled into Angie's driveway! This understandably shook Angie up. He said they were planning to kill him for his collection!

It was also at about that time (1997-2000?) that I asked Angie how he could derive any pleasure from owning the T206 Honus Wagner card when he was keeping it in a safety deposit box. Within about six months to a year he sold all his Baseball, Basketball and NFL cards to a big California dealer and closed his store.

I also remember the non-pretentious old school Bel-Air restaurant across the street run by a Polish couple where I used to get perogies while waiting for Angie's store to open at noon or so on Saturdays.

;)

IPA. Talk about a throwback! Were they even still making that in 1994? I don't ever remember seeing it anywhere at that time.

Yes, IPA was a very full bodied well hopped man's beer!

https://hosting.photobucket.com/85c5...f375c1983d.jpg

No high school kids need apply!

I believe Labatt stopped bottling it in the late 1990's but an internet search indicates that it may still be found on draught in select taverns.

Incidentally, the Labatt's plant was a leisurely twenty minute walk from our house in the Wortley Road Village part of Old South London. My father worked there from 1952 or so until he retired in 1976 (although he always took the bus). I worked at Labatt's for four summers from 1972 to 1975 while enrolled at Western.

;)

Very nice post, fox !!

The El Productos are super-cool and I'm very familiar with those. The coasters are pretty easy to find, but it's those box-bottoms that are really special. And of course finding a complete box would be insane. I don't think any exist.

The 56' Shredded Wheat, in my opinion, are one of the best football sets ever made. Very tough to complete and expensive too!! You only have four of them ?? There are some legendary Eskimos in that set: Kwong, Parker, Miles ... and I see that you have Bright.

And your bar experience with Ang made me LOL. I was always a stout guy. I remember during the holiday season, craft brewers would make chocolate stout, and man oh man, I miss those days!! I had a serious problem though and had to quit around ten years ago. Oh well, more money for cards !! :D

If Ang was getting targetted like that back then, then can you imagine if he was around today and still had those cards ?? :eek:

I still have my hockey POGs that I collected as a kid back in the 90s. I remember my buddy down the street pulled an Eric Lindros and I was so jealous!! I pressured him for weeks and he finally agreed to sell it to me for $10 or $20! :p

Those though are 1959 Wheaties! I decided not to pursue the 1956 Shredded Wheat cards circa 2001 because of the can of worms/tar baby aspect plus the fact that I'm not really drawn to them aesthetically.

;)

https://hosting.photobucket.com/85c5...458da68047.png

That rabbit hole is chock full of memories for me. The first thing that drew my eye was the sign advertising Silverwood's cones, milk shakes and sundaes. Signs like this one were common outside London's variety stores when I was a kid:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/85c5...c1bbd3099b.jpg (Not mine.)

Silverwood's was London's own mega dairy. Silverwood's horse drawn delivery carts and Divco trucks were a common sight on London's leafy streets providing home delivery of milk in glass bottles in the 1950's and 1960's:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/85c5...e1d81417d4.png

https://hosting.photobucket.com/85c5...4715989b83.png

https://hosting.photobucket.com/85c5...49b0b89553.jpg

My sister worked at the Silverwood ice cream plant on Bathurst Street a scant kilometre away from our house in the summer of 1963 and she brought a complete set of the SICLE Air Force cards home for me!

https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...ir_Force_1.jpg https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...ir_Force_3.jpg

She also worked at Silverwood's in the summer of 1968(?) and I worked at the Silverwood's ice cream plant in the spring of 1972 after it had relocated to the southern edge of London just east of Wellington Road.

Silverwood's grew by acquisition to spread nationally and become Canada's largest dairy by the late 1960's.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/85c5...1a4a238bf4.jpg

John Labatt Limited's Ault Foods subsidiary acquired Silverwood's in 1984 and after several more corporate transactions/amalgamations even the Silverwood name brand had disappeared by the turn of the century. :mad:

I passed by the Stanley Variety hundreds of times growing up since it was on the route of the Ridout bus I used to take to my high school downtown from 1966 to 1970. But Stanley Street was the northern boundary of my elementary school district and the Stanley Variety was almost a kilometre away from my house. There was actually no reason for me to trek all the way to the Stanley Variety because every corner store carried the same bubble gum cards like these Hockey cards that I collected in grade two:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/85c5...3a4ee5530e.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/85c5...b983a929ac.jpg

But Joe S. who was my age lived right across the street from the Stanley Variety with his mother and grandparents. His grandfather and my dad were both Lithuanian and fishing buddies. In fact in 1969 my father bought their 1961 Mercury Comet for our family (for me actually because I was the one who got a driver's licence). Joe and I therefore hung out sometimes when we were in grade school.

I still clearly remember the time Joe had bought a pair of black Jolly Roger flags at Canadian Tire for his bike. Spotting these his grandfather started berating him for the hideous banners he'd put on his bike. "Now is that nice?" were his exact words in Lithuanian. Joe's immediate defence was that I was going to do the same. And I certainly would have but I didn't have the money!

Just like my own father confiscated my T-shirt to use as a rag after I'd lovingly ironed a Brother Rat Fink transfer upon it:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/85c5...d252abca55.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/85c5...4a3db1233e.jpg

Somehow the old guys had completely forgotten the desires that lurk within the hearts of young boys.

Joe used to constantly tout the coolness of his neighbourhood Stanley Variety, e.g. how that was where the best value in pea shooters could be found and how great the milk shakes were. I don't remember whether the Stanley Variety actually had a sit-down counter at the time.

But Joe and I actually didn't share too many interests. He collected neither cards nor comics and he didn't have any cool toys like an Eagle Hockey game, Lionel train set or Dinky Toys. I do need to give him credit though for being the runner up Duncan Spin Top champion in our corner of the city in 1963(?) and going on to the southwestern Ontario regional finals in Chatham!

https://hosting.photobucket.com/85c5...f3b48c607f.jpg

So Joe was never among my very closest buddies.

Neither was he exactly a scholar. Nonetheless after some trouble in his teens, Joe straightened out and went on to win the Mr. London bodybuilding contest in the early 1980's! Being entrepreneurially inclined he now owns and operates his own gym in the northwest corner of London.

Those though are the pleasant memories. The rabbit hole goes deeper, much deeper and darker.

:)

So further down the rabbit hole....

London is neither a small town nor a mega city. Here are the population figures since 1961:

1961 - 169,569
1966 - 194,416
1971 - 223,222
1976 - 240,392
1981 - 254,280
1986 - 269,140
1991 - 311,620
1996 - 325,699
2001 - 336,539
2006 - 352,395
2011 - 366,151
2016 - 383,822
2021 - 422,324
2024 - 447,255(E)

https://hosting.photobucket.com/85c5...d88a6d05b2.jpg

So London does on the surface appear to be an idyllic city of ideal size (although its population has surged in the past ten years as it's been attracting retirees who are cashing out of Toronto).

But London has certainly had its dark side from the massacre of the Black Donnellys in Lucan just north of London in 1880 to Donald Oag who became Canada's most notorious convict in the 1970's to the unsolved murders referenced in the article. I can comment on two of the cases.

I have only a vague recollection of Jacqueline Dunleavy's murder in January 1968 though her name is still very familiar. I'm not sure the fact that she had just finished her shift at the Stanley Variety ever came to my attention. I was all about international events (e.g. Vietnam War) and national politics at the time and devoured the Time magazine to which we subscribed but paid scant attention to "inconsequential" local events. But the fact that I was completely familiar with the variety store as well as the neighbourhood now causes me to wince anew almost 57 years later. I can clearly picture the exact location in front of the Bear Alignment garage of the bus stop from which Jacqueline was abducted. So bad/sad.

But it's the reminder of Jackie English's murder that's most unsettling. She was a little darling. The picture in the article doesn't do her justice. Here's a better one:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/85c5...755da90c1b.jpg

You see in 1966-68 Jackie lived basically right across Euclid Avenue from two of my very best buddies, Phil and my card collecting partner Tony. Euclid Ave. was kid central at the time and the neighbourhood kids all hung out together. As a thirteen year old in 1967 she was vivacious, pretty as a picture, friendly and absolutely charming in every way. Even as a fifteen year old I had a crush on her. And she gave every indication of being sweet on me as well.

But did I do anything about it? Did I suggest we go to the Whistle Stop Drive-In just three blocks away for a foot long and a milkshake or sundae? Or to the Ace Restaurant for a hamburger and french fries with gravy? Or to the Hobby Nook for fish & chips? Or even taken her to Harvey's? Or invited her to come see a movie with me? Her family was really poor and any of those things would have been a real treat for her. I mean I would have been her knight in shining armour.

No. I did none of those things despite having the money (my father spoiled me because I was a good student plus I worked on a tobacco farm in August 1967 and earned a pile of money for a kid). I was socially awkward and completely clueless and inviting her to accompany me to a neat place for a treat didn't even occur to me at the time. When it came to girls/women, I needed lessons.

Then her family moved away early in 1968 (I think) and the next I heard of her was reading in the London Free Press about her lifeless body being found in Big Otter Creek in early October 1969. So I couldn't even bring myself to ask her out two years earlier and then some depraved beast snuffs out her young life. I mean why, and why Jackie? She'd been so vital, so spunky, so full of life.

And ever since then there's been the "What ifs?" Had I asked her out, had I even asked her to "Go with me" in the terminology of the day, we probably would have kept in touch after she'd moved to a different part of town. Even if we'd then drifted apart, her life would have been somewhat changed and she might not have ended up working at the diner in the Metropolitan Store (like a Woolco or a Kmart) at the Treasure Island Plaza. I really can't imagine a much worse location for her to have been working. Treasure Island Plaza was in an otherwise desolate location nearly a mile south of London's city boundary. So she had to embark on a bleak fifteen minute walk on cold evenings just to get to a bus stop and wait for a bus that might come around every hour.

Here's her older sister Anne commemorating the fiftieth anniversary of Jackie's death on the Wellington Street overpass in 2019:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/85c5...74e11deef.webp

Here's a good article on Anne's memories:

Quest to Find and Shame - Toronto Star

Anne was already an absolute knockout at the age of fourteen in 1967 and I thought she was completely out of my league at the time. :rolleyes:

So why was Jackie working in that gods' forsaken location? There were a couple of Metropolitan stores right downtown. Like I say, Jackie was pretty, sprightly and charming. Anybody would have hired her for a waitressing or a sales clerk job.

So sad. And so many "What ifs".

Jackie's mother and younger brother Fred would move back into my immediate neighbourhood in 1970(?). Fred had joined the chess club at South Secondary School and would visit me regularly because I was the only one he knew outside his club that would give him a challenge. All of us "kids" also liked to play blackjack in our dining and living room because by then I had the house to myself most of the time. (Since this is a Baseball card forum I guess I should mention that Fred was was a big San Francisco Giants and Willie Mays fan.) By the late 1970's he'd grown up to be a strong, good looking young man.

The last time I ran into Anne was circa 1971-72 when she worked at a booth inside one of the buildings at the Western Fair selling tacos. That was the first time I ever tasted "Mexican" food and they were really good. Anne though was wearing a Hawaiian flower garland over a cleavage featuring bikini top and looked over-the-top gorgeous. She was a young goddess and could easily have worked as one of the bunny girl waitresses downtown at the Latin Quarter where Jackie had another job helping out in the kitchen. Yes, she recognized me from Euclid Ave and gave me a big smile. But did I do anything about it? No....

So many memories ranging from the fond to the tragic down that rabbit hole.

:(

Here's a good video from Youtube on the Jackie English case:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Z4o54_XcxUY?si=5ZxyxUbSwBS0F7GR" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin" allowfullscreen></iframe>

:(

Did you collect the Topps hockey cards from the previous year? The reason why I am asking you this is because card #66 is the famous Golden Jet rookie !

https://i.psacard.com/cardfacts/1958...676.jpg?h=1000

Because it was the last card in the set, it is often found in poor shape (first and last cards got handled the most). Furthermore, it was also on the bottom-right corner of the uncut sheet and was cut very poorly. Most ended up being either off-centered or miscut!!

The first cards I ever owned were actually four of the 1958-59 Topps Hockey cards which I gathered off the street one late February or early March day in 1959. The first three were Detroit Red Wings, but the last was a Chicago Blackhawk. When I saw that big Indian head on the red uniform, I knew that was my favourite team - even though I might have had trouble reading the team name at the time! I have every card but the Bobby Hull in my present day collection. Here are some shots:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/85c5...9ca76b562a.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/85c5...34a705236a.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/85c5...396c242b81.jpg

I bought a VG- one back in 1980 in an antique junk shop but traded it off just over 25 years ago because it wasn't up to my quality standards when it came to condition. I'm looking for one now that's wayyyy off center because I'm indifferent to centering and I'd like to get one for a semi-reasonable price. (I didn't care a whit about centering as a kid so why should I now?) But the card stock of these 1958-59 Topps Hockey often betrays yellowed borders and I still want a Hull that's as sharp and white as my other cards from this set. I'm not sure that the 8 you posted is white enough for my quality standards. I'd need to compare it side-by-side to my others.

:confused:

Here anyway is a picture from a few years ago of old Ang in his den surrounded by his sports memorabilia:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/85c5...dfea0fe885.png

:)

:eek:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/85c5...693617369.jpeg

;)

Hahahahaha

Angie's King of Cards store would have been in one of the two small buildings visible beside Sam's Hotel & Tavern in this picture:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/85c5...57f31deb8.webp

And here is the Bel-Air Restaurant across the street where I used to get perogies:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/85c5...0f8612e9d6.png

:cool:

Very nice, Mr. Fox !! :)

Man, I would have loved the opportunity to check out that restaurant. Gotta love the vintage Player's sign, even if the cigarettes are terrible. Some of the best pirogis I've had were in the diveiest bar in the Ham.

Sadly it looks as if Angie's old "King of Cards" store is empty and boarded up now:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/85c5...f927c00340.png

I believe it was the storefront on the right of the picture above.

:(

Savelli said he started collecting as a 10 year old kid in the 40s when he went on a family trip from Canada to New Haven, Conn., where he bought his first pack of baseball cards from a store.

Then he said that card collecting really took off in the early 70s when the first card convention was held in Detroit.

I recall attending my first card show at a Holiday Inn in around 1977. I saw a 1933 Goudey Babe Ruth’ for sale by an older guy. I told the guy that I wanted to buy it. He answered me, “kid, you can’t afford it. It costs $100 !!!”

To me, a 10 year old kid back in 77’, $100 seemed like $10,000 today, and I’m sure most adults at the time thought it was crazy to pay $100 for a cardboard toy!

Ahh, to go back in time!

P.s. Something that cost $100 in 1977 would cost around $600 today when accounting for inflation only.