Mike Baker Authenticated
 

I thought of this same concept years ago and knew it would be coming someday.

I know many of you won't like it, but I think another opinion certifying the grade is a great idea.

I don't really understand how the three levels silver, gold, and black work (only spent 10 seconds looking at the site).

I see MBA certified listed in auctions already and suspect these cards will get premium $.

If this was already discussed, feel free to ignore this post (didn't see anything in a search).

Other thoughts?

Double secret certification...

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...deanwormer.jpg

Will he slab the slab?
God I can only hope so.

Slab the slab...
 

I know you said that jokingly, but when I thought of this same concept years ago, that was my vision.

I know you and many others are probably laughing, but many people (including me) display their cards. A premium slab that encapsulated SGC, BVG and PSA cases could display really nicely.

I guess now that I said that out loud (and typed it), it does sound a little silly but I've seen crazier ideas make a lot of money.

Is this different than the other GAI guy with the Diamond stickers?

So now we have at least a fourth one after Purple Label and PWCC?

CAC does this for graded coins with a hologram sticker

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Lol

I guess a 2nd pair of eyes is good but it really shouldn't be needed if the TPGs do their jobs correctly. But not a bad idea as others are doing it, or have tried to do it, recently.

I hear what you’re saying Leon. But remember, all of us make mistakes in our job. Luckily, most of the time they go unnoticed (unless you’re in the restaurant business where you’re expected to be perfect).

I am terrible at judging the quality of a card. I trust that TPGs would do a better job than I would and 99% of the time that’s true. I also like having another opinion.

What’s nice is if you don’t like it, ignore the MBA or even PSA/SGC/BGS label. The grade is a guide to get you started. The final review is up to the buyer.

Remora (noun): Remora spend their lives clinging to a host animal such as a whale, turtle, shark or ray. Although it was initially believed that remoras fed off particulate matter from the host's meals, this has been shown to be false; in reality, their diets are composed primarily of host feces.

Sound about right?

Confused. Wasn't Mike Baker the one who graded trimmed cards for GAI?

I believe so.

Just think then we could have High-End Certified Certified.

I thought the Mike Baker GAI graded cards were generally considered good? If I remember correctly, wasn't he also at one time the head grader at PSA?

As a business model, it sounds like a very risky idea. If a new grading company came around and did their job the first time around, these piggy-backers would be out of business overnight.

I think you're talking about Steve Rochi.

Love the idea. More sticker companies will pop up.

The only question is which ones will become the top dogs?

A sticker on a slab that is further slabbed and stickered. It's turtles all the way down . . .

Examples are starting to show up...
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...387c159c9e.jpg

Y'all have fun with that...

Look at the bright side, he can't be worse than the others already doing it.;):D

Yes he can be worse. He was famous for slabbing trimmed cards for GAI until they were driven into the ground.

A saying is "That a lot of people do it, doesn't make it any less stupid."

Supposedly he done the same with Global Authority. Then again look at who else is putting stickers on slabs.:D

Give the people what they want.
Evidently there's no end to what they will embrace (pay for).

But who's gonna slab his slab? Eventually all things merge into one, and a slab runs through it..

Hahahahahaha great movie quote!

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It's all bullshit until these "entrepreneurs" offer a money back guarantee. Is Mike and the rest of the "to the best of my knowledge" crowd willing to risk their financial well being on their word? That's what they're selling.

Integrity, are you willing to put up your house if you're wrong?

Phil Lewis

"...been awarded a MBA..." nice grammar.

The restaurant part made me laugh. It's 2020... NO ONE is expected to be perfect, at, well... literally anything anymore. Anything less than sheer and utter incompetence is completely acceptable these days.

Case in point, since moving to Montreal, my expectations are now as low as possible. I can honestly say that my meals are screwed up at least 50% of the time when I order or go out here, and you get no sympathy from staff or management whatsoever.
If you complain, they act like you're the problem. It's pathetic...

Rant over :D

So many stickers....

Part of me wants to buy a really nice Nascar card and get as many of those new stickers as possible on the slab.

Does anyone want to join me in the N54 AUTHENTICATION Super Service. We can call it N54 ASS. It will be a unique AUTHENTICATION TO THE AUTHENTICATION service.

We can come up with a really cool looking logo. The difference between the N54 ASS and the "other guys" is we will offer a certification number for the logo (for a nominal charge).

Who says we can't have 6 minute abs?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJgzXJ4AX_Y

Not sure if I'd go with a Baker auth. As others have mentioned, GAI was good to begin with, then the trimmed cards were being slabbed with numerical numbers. Step into my office... N54 ASS!

Our spokesperson can be Large Ass Herzog.

A serious question...

Will Baker be removing the cards from the slabs, to examine them? The only reason a service like this would add value, is to deem a questionable card as being altered or unaltered. Quite often you cannot determine alteration, if the card resides in a slab.

Look at the thousands of PSA altered examples residing in numbered slabs... for many of these, you'd need to examine the edges/sides of the card. I view this service as worthless, unless he can examine the raw card.

As far as agreeing with the grade... beauty should be in the eye of the beholder. Not some profiteering opportunist.

Of the 3 companies(LOL) I know of they do not remove the card from the holder. Wouldn't removing the card make the process worthless(not that it already isn't)?

I think you're on to something. If one sticker is good, wouldn't multiple stickers -- as many as possible -- be better?

The more the better for sure. You could easily get a few hundred just in grading fees on a card you could buy raw for $5.:D

Now if someone could sticker cards that haven't been owned by known scammers, doctors, or other bad actors, I might pay for that.

And the stickers would automatically detach themselves once they sense touch DNA from one of them...

The blowout guys are having a field day because of all the spelling/grammar errors on the card, and the fact that he's sending out "You have an MBA authenticated Gold Label PSA Card" with SGC graded cards...

Also nobody has mentioned it yet, but wtf is the difference between a high end and a low end PSA 10???

A cool sticker.;)

Yes, but wait for the low high-end and the high low-end variations.

9.98 - 9.99 - 10.0 - 10.01 - 10.02.... it's subjective! That .02 difference could mean 10's of thousands of $$$ to two people that want to pay for that .02 difference.

Normally it would be centering, as a PSA 10 can technically be centered 60/40 and most collectors consider centering the most important sub grade for eye appeal. It's also the easiest to measure and/or determine it without an expert.

There's nothing "wrong" with it, but I don't see the point of paying for a service that one can do one one's own: examine the image of the card.

Same goes for grades on autographs. If you can't tell an sharpie signature is Mint you should probably not be collecting autographs.

But I know, I know. These are "investments."

Digging up this old thread because I'm about to send off some cards to MBA that I think are under-graded. I realize that it sounds ridiculous to pay someone to "grade the graders", but this does address/solve some of the problems with grading today. So many cards are now being criminally under graded by PSA; as well as SGC, although I would argue less so. I have recently graded cards in PSA 6 slabs that look like they belong in an 8 holder. Also, centering and overall eye appeal are extremely important with vintage cards. And while, yes, you can see the centering on a scan, you often can't see other minor flaws that greatly affect the eye appeal of a card in hand. How many times have we all bought that nicely centered VG-EX 4 card thinking we found a diamond in the rough only to have it show up with a surface crease/wrinkle that you couldn't see from the scans? That's just the limitations of buying and selling cards online, which is where the vast majority of cards trade hands nowadays.

I think this service addresses some of these challenges, and the market clearly agrees. The data is in on MBA Diamond stickered cards, and they sell for a significant premium, often bringing the price of a full grade bump higher for the Gold stickers. And no, it's not just the premium that a well-centered card would have otherwise gotten. It definitely adds value (I ran an ANCOVA model with the data and the stickers are statistically significant even after accounting for cards being well-centered). Sure, you could risk cracking your "under-graded" cards out and sending them back in for grading again, hoping to get a bump, but with grading fees as high as they are today, and with PSA and with how ridiculously harsh they're being with many of their grades now, it's often just not worth it. Plus, I think the Gold Diamond stickers look nice. They're subtle and classy looking. Especially on the newer SGC tuxedo slabs.

Here's an example of one of the cards I'm planning to send off to MBA. This Gretzky RC is laughably under-graded. This is not an EX-MT card. Anyone selling this card raw would describe it as NM or NM-MT and no buyers would ever question that description upon receiving it. I could crack it and send it back to PSA. Maybe they give me a 7? Perhaps an 8? Who knows. But perfectly centered, under-graded cards with great eye appeal are very difficult to find in this hobby. I say they deserve an award, and I plan on giving mine little gold diamond stickers because I like how they look. It's like the trophy shelf of my collection. And they display nicely too. Plus, now I can tell that clown who says, "comps for a PSA 5 are about $5k" to take a hike just that much more easily without having to defend why I'm asking above "comps" if I ever decide to sell.

Don't get me wrong, I fully realize why many collectors have no interest in this service. But this is why I like them and why I plan to send off many of my favorite cards to MBA. Sometimes the grading companies just get it wrong. And if Mike Baker agrees that they "got it wrong" or that it's a premium card of that grade, then I'm definitely willing to pay a significant premium as a buyer over some random eBay listing where the seller writes "LOOKS BETTER" in the title only to have it show up with a crease and 7 indents on it.

hmmmm
 

I'm about to send off some cards to MBA that I think are under-graded.
You lost me with the first sentence. It got worse all the way to the end.........

So you'll send it in. Mike will LYK and everyone else who examines the card and looks on the back that it's under graded and give you a sticker. You now display some other companies "INCORRECTLY" graded card with a sticker from someone else who says it's better than that.
Who exactly is Mike Baker and what are the credentials other people would find impressive?

If it's about wanting to resell an incorrectly labeled graded card for an amount commensurate with it's "real(?)" grade you would need people to care about what Mike says (Mikey likes it cereal).

If it's about confirming what your keen mind and eyes have told you - you seem to do that pretty well on your own :-)

NO!!!!!!!

as I understand it
 

you are incorrectly impugning someone's reputation without knowing anything about him or what actually went on at a couple of grading companies....... A negative suggestion followed by affirmation from another person and voila! He was the boogeyman. I believe he was heralded as top drawer grader.

Serious question. If he was a top grader and a good guy what the hell happened with all the graded altered cards?

Also not sure if true but according to the last owner(Damian Werner) of GAI/Global Authority Mike Baker was still the grader till they completely shut down due to complete incompetence and not returning submitters cards.

In or around 2000 the hobby was abuzz with the news that a new grading company was about to launch. Steve Rocci, President, and Mike Baker, Head Grader, had left PSA to form GAI with backing from several deep pockets investors. Early reaction from dealers was overwhelmingly supportive due in no small part to Baker's sterling reputation. I recall the Ft. Washington show around then when GAI was doing on site grading for, I believe, the first time. Dealers were cracking cards out cards from PSA slabs and submitting them to Mike because he had graded the same cards at PSA.
I really don't know why SGC went south but a counter guarantee from Mike certainly should enhance value for those who care. It's not for me, but I understand how others could see it differently.

FYI: They are at almost all the large Dallas Card Shows so anyone who is interested and comes to those events can find out for themselves with 1st person evidence and come away with their own conclusions.

Regards
Rich

So, just to clarify. Should I put you down in the 'nay' column?

Yeah not for me either. I think we all can see when a card appears to have been graded conservatively...or not and know what to pay accordingly. Once a card is in a holder, a full assessment is not possible so at best they can give a nod to a card based on an incomplete review.

The other issue I have with this concept of only certifying high end cards is that we do not get their opinion on a card they do not certify and why. So to me, as a whole, it is a one-sided assurance. Nobody would pay them to certify the card is altered in the holder, as an example.

If someone wants to pay them for that service because of Mike's rep, go for it and if someone is actually willing to pay a premium for it, good for them.

It's about as meaningful as those absurd PWCC eye appeal ratings, but PT Barnum was assuredly right.

Or, as the song goes, you gotta have a gimmick, if you want to get ahead.

Great point Chase. Just because one card has a high-end sticker on it, while another of the exact same card and grade does not, doesn't guarantee that the card without the sticker couldn't actually be in even nicer shape with better eye appeal than the stickered card. It is basically just another way for people to milk more money out of collectors, by preying on their inexperience, or fears that they can't always accurately tell from scans and images what a card really looks like in hand.

+1

Well now it's buy the card not the sticker?

You can add me too.

Sounds like another feel good service for "Card Karens" (I'll let you have that one Darren, lol) that just can't accept what is technically already an opinion and want it supplemented with a better one.

I saw this on a YouTube card show review a few weeks ago and laughed it off. Let's be straight here, the biggest selling point for PSAs success is the registry. I feel for them that someone is now going to call (everyone knows this likely already happened but heck, I'll make the story future state.) and demand that based on this yellow piece of paper they want a higher level in their Mike Trout registry. I bet they will just jump on that.

My eyes are the determiner of what is nice... I do not care, will not care, and will not do anything but walk away from someone trying to sell me one of these flim-flam scams at a higher price. These yellow cards would be circular filed and stickers peeled off the second I unpack it.

I will immediately give credit to the first service that does not simply just not grant an upgrade to the sucker on the line, but rather downgrades the card below the assigned grade. If you take your task that seriously you don't have my business, but you have my respect. :D

https://media2.giphy.com/media/3o6Zt...HQUE/giphy.gif

Also Bob, unless we are comparing the sale of the exact card without the MBA certification in a parallel universe, how do we know that the MBA certification adds anything to the value of the card? The card might have reached that price without the certification because...the persons bidding on it can see for themselves :eek: that it is a nice example.

Mike Baker
 

business model aside, Mike Baker was the head grader or one of the head graders in the 1990's at PSA before he and Steve Rocci left PSA to start GAI in about 2001...for a multitude of reasons as I recall...GAI's grading, in my opinion, was well respected through about 2005, when changes were made to the company, one other important grader who had left PSA also, name escapes me, left GAI, investors changing etc....this is from what I heard...the company went downhill after that unfortunately...but their early grades were solid...it is too bad their graded cards do not sell....Bruce Perry

This

True dat! Exactly why I agree with you. LOL

Chase, gadzooks! Can you possibly mean that collectors can actually grade their own cards? What can possibly be coming next?

I know John. Some of us have been doing it shortly after getting into the hobby but others of us need 3rd party validation of third party assessments. Wow reading that actually made me laugh.

Then again we are in the era of fractional ownership, vaults and NFTs where you can either own a piece of something you can never handle, own something you can never handle or worse, own something that is only virtual.

Maybe the MBA route is not so bad after all?

I'm pretty happy with this one.

Do the stickers come off cleanly or do they leave a residue?

I'm not sure. I haven't tried.

Seems a bit excessive.

Well, I hate to say it, but I fear you’ll be wasting your money. Honestly, stickers don’t mean much to collectors; most view them as a gimmick to sell cards. In the coin arena, stickers have a little cache, but all the ridiculous PWCC stickers are viewed as scams to increase the sales price. I have personally pealed these off of slabs.

Mike Baker was always a nice guy, I talked with him at length back in the day, but his name carries absolutely no weight today, and his GAI business ventures ruined his once fairly good name. I don’t mean to put the guy down, but this is just a poor marketing ploy used by folks dissatisfied by their card’s actual grade.

I'm not getting the stickers because I want to flip them. They're for me. This is for my PC cards. That said, I agree that the stickers don't mean much to at least a plurality of collectors. There is no shortage of venom spewed at those who prefer and value cards with such stickers on them by the internet forum heroes this hobby so desperately needs. You're free to think of it as a "gimmick to sell cards", but if you look at the population of cards that have been awarded these stickers, you'll quickly realize that they are far superior copies of those cards when it comes to eye appeal, and centering in particular. I would take a perfectly centered 4 over any 9 that isn't perfectly centered all day for any card. It's just that important to me. The grading scales used by PSA, SGC, et al are borderline meaningless to me as a collector. Literally, the only thing I care about is eye appeal. I couldn't give a shit how sharp some corners are or if there's chipping along the edges of a card. Cards that get awarded "gold diamonds" or "PWCC-S" stickers always stand out to me. I've never seen a single one that wasn't an absolute stunner. The same isn't true though of cards with a number grade. Even PSA 10s often look like trash to me because they are violently off-centered.

I don't think of the stickers as a way to "get more money out of people". I think of it as an awards ceremony for my PC. What are the best of the best cards I own as far as eye-appeal goes? I'm giving them little awards that I find aesthetically pleasing.

As far as the broader market goes, the stickers do command a premium. The market indeed values Mike Baker's opinion. Certainly, there are many who don't value it at all, but they aren't the people paying premiums for these cards. His grading experience and expertise is very highly regarded and respected by a lot of people in this hobby. Cards that he places Gold Diamond stickers on sell for huge premiums at auction. I know this because I've been tracking the data and I built a statistical model to measure it's impact, as I stated above. I'm not guessing here. The numbers don't lie.

His name may carry no weight to you, and no weight to a plurality of the hobby, but it certainly carries quite a bit of weight to a fairly large percentage of collectors. I would much rather have a card graded by Mike Baker than I would one of these Cheetoh chomping new hires at PSA who thinks that Gretzky RC above is a 6.

Also worth pointing out is that the argument that it's stupid to send a card in to Mike Baker because anyone can just look at the card and determine it's condition for themselves can just as easily be applied to a grading services in general (PSA, SGC, etc.). If you see no value in card grading services in general, then you're welcome to that opinion. But it isn't a very popular one. If you want to see what the hobby values as a whole, just follow the money.

In light of what happened at GAI, why should we believe a reincarnated Mike Baker is honest and free from influence?

In any case to me there is a big difference between Mike Baker authenticating and grading a card and Mike Baker certifying a card is nice for the grade.

I see no value added having a cert from MBA but I see no value in the PWCC stickers either. Clearly there are fan boys for both of these certs.

I have not seen enough MBA certed cards for sale (which should not be interpreted that he is overly discerning or strict). Market has already shown nice cards for the grade sell for premiums...sometimes huge premiums. I think it is self-serving to conclude an MBA sticker is the reason on those sales.

Their cert is simply stating that they looked at the card in the holder and they feel it is nice for the grade, which anyone can do, no offense to MBA. He is not stating this PSA 6 is a PSA 8, which as a former grader, would actually be value added.

I guess I am secure enough in my life and in my ability to judge my own cards that I would not need to pay someone to reassure me and I certainly would not pay a premium for a card because it was certed by MBA but would pay a premium for a card that happened to be certed by them if I felt it was high end. Huge distinction, imo.

I'd like to see numbers on what percentage of cards sent to him (already a self selected group) Mike Baker is stickering.

Then why not just buy your own stickers, have a little ceremony, and put stickers on your favorite cards. Gold stars might be a good choice. :D

Obviously, I don't get it.

I was just poking around eBay and saw a few completed BIN sales for some 50s and 60s cards with MBA certs that went for exceptionally strong prices. Only the buyer could tell us if the price they paid reflected the MBA cert but it would appear to be the case.

Were any already blessed by PWCC? Maybe there's a double premium for a double sticker?

Funny you should ask. I saw a 69 someone another in a PSA 8 with a PWCC A and an MBA Gold and at the very least the card was a diamond cut (slanted top edge with compensating slanted bottom edge) which sorta supports why the entire concept is utter BS. Never underestimate the gimmicks, smoke and mirrors most collectors will fall for.

Maybe as part of its (allegedly) ongoing work the FBI will sticker cards that are legit. Now THAT I might pay for. Or they could put a contraband sticker on bad cards Brent turned over when he was cooperating. Would pay even more.