How Much More Will You Pay For Great Centering?
 

Many collectors don't care that much about centering. We all have our own things we want in a card. For me, centering has always been very important and I will pay significantly more for the same grade, with great centering, as opposed to 80/20 or 70/30 type cards.


https://luckeycards.com/williams.jpg

I'm not a total centering freak, but will admit the prevailing attitude of the hobby on this matter over the last 20 years or so has swayed my opinion at least somewhat over the years. I don't usually mind a card o/c moderately one way - say 70/30. I do not like cards that are miscut or close to appearing miscut - 90/10 in most cases is going to be a non-starter for me, but really it depends on the individual card and the overall presentation.

I once overpaid for a '61 Mantle All-Star PSA 5, because it was nearly perfectly centered. It always seems like the majority of those that I see are close to miscut.

Beautiful card Leon. Personally I won't pay more for centering. With more expensive old cards not having any problems on the players face is most important to me. I collect lower grade examples though.

I will pay 50% for something centered “perfectly” if its a card I’ve been looking for.

I didn't pay extra but I waited extra long to find and buy a centered copy:

https://live.staticflickr.com/4581/3...3eef36a159.jpg

Ha !! Fifty per cent ?? Piker !
 

..http://imagehost.vendio.com/a/204295...0SANDY_NEW.JPG

..Some of us have been known to sell our blood and then pawn the full-size spare tire from the Park Avenue ULtra to get some centered cardboard...

..

At what point going down the centering % scale will you simply not even pay at all? These days, if not 55/45 (absolute worst 60/40) or better I probably don't even consider the purchase. There are exceptions for a notoriously poorly centered issue, but those are few and far between. For instance, the 1941 Ted Williams & the 1952 Bowman Willie Mays are extremely tough to find superb centering.

I here you on the 52 Bowman Mays. I found my copy about 6 years ago and did not hesitate to pull the trigger. It was priced about 20% higher than other 3's at the time.

https://www.collectorfocus.com/image...lie-mays-psa-3

If I shop for a card and determine that the overwhelming majority are centered poorly, and that centering is a relatively rare attribute, I will pay up big when I find one centered.

https://www.collectorfocus.com/image...-bowman-mantle

https://www.collectorfocus.com/image...-mickey-mantle

This may come across as a cop-out, but my answer is it depends. Centering is a big part of my evaluation of a card, but I also look for bright colors (no fading or staining) and good registration. I won't buy a card if it doesn't have all 3 elements.

I'm quite happy to pay a premium if I can check all 3 boxes, but the amount of the premium depends on the scarcity of the card, the number of issues with the particular card/set. For example 1933 Goudey doesn't have a lot of centering issues, so I don't pay much of a premium for well centered cards. By contrast 1952 Topps can be difficult to find well centered examples of certain cards, so I'm comfortable with a bigger premium for centering.

When I collected, centering was my least concern. Any flaw caused by the factory whether it be centering, wax stains, jagged edges are not something I care about. Creasing, soft corners caused by collectors is a much bigger problem from my perspective.

I agree with James. I obviously would prefer a centered card but it isn’t as big of a concern as overall wear or creasing. Actually being out of focus or off-register is more annoying to me.

Figured since we are all showing off our centered 51 Mantles I would join in.

I only pay extra for centering in sets or cards that are notoriously poorly centered personally.

General eye appeal is more important to me, centering included but.not necessarily crucial.Attachment 412426

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I don't know about you but I would never buy a card just for the centering.

I will definitely pay a premium for centered cards. How much? Depends on how hard it is to find centered examples that particular card.

That '52 Bowman Mays is a dandy.

When I first rejoined the hobby back in 2016, I purchased many 52 Topps cards that weren't exactly centered, if you know what I mean?;) That has changed now once I became more educated and read on here numerous times how important centering was. I have now, for the most part, become fairly anal when it comes to centering, but then again, since most of my remaining needed cards are pricey, I won't be as anal with those if and when the time comes.

A fairly recent upgrade for me, and if I happen to come across a more centered copy of other cards in my collection, I will also give them a shot if the upgrade is significant enough.

Most of the time I am just glad to own the card. There is always a chance to sell and upgrade later.

Doc

Nothing. I will pay a premium for a heavy miscut, but centering is both a natural defect from the techniques of a century ago, and doesn't really impact a cards visual aesthetics to my eyes. I don't do high grade, but things like registration, brightness, etc. have a much greater impact on how a card looks.

I will take a creased up, pinholed and wildly off center Old Judge with a bright image over a PSA 6 with 50/50 centering that's fading.

For me, it depends on the card. If it is a high dollar card that is notoriously off centered (i.e. the majority of the cards are off centered like the 52 Bowman Mays) then I have no problem adding an off centered version of that card to my set...I will not pay a premium for a rare centered copy.

However, if a higher dollar card can be found fairly easily with decent centering, I will NOT try and save money by finding an off centered version...I'll buy a reasonably centered card for market price.

And for common cards to fill my set...centering is not an issue. While I wouldn't want an entire set of off centered cards, i don't mind my commons being a mix of centered and off centered...and sometimes I will intentionally pick up a cheaper common that is very off centered to allow me to check it off the list at a lower price.

The 1952 Bowman set is great example. I'm fine with an off centered Mays (because the majority of them are off centered....but I held off on buying a Mantle until I found one with decent centering (not 50/50, but not bad)...here are my copies of both of those cards from my set...and I'm very happy with each one):

Attachment 412491

Attachment 412492

It's all about sharp corners for me. Centering (as long as it's relatively decent and not a smack in the face) is much further down on the list.

I'm pretty much on the same track Darren, especially for my PC-type cards.
I've written about it before, but I tend to go for "overall appeal", and that includes everything, corners, centering, registration, print etc etc.
(any projects I may do, are a bit different though.....)

Give me a sharp card that is "respectable" in all areas, and I will take that over a beautifully centered card, that has other notable problems.

I said it a few years ago, but I think the trend may ultimately move in that direction, and not strictly for the centering purists....but thats just my opinion.

All that aside, it sure is nice to find a beautifully centered mid grade (and up) card.
Its getting harder and harder as time goes on to find the extremely well-centered cards, as thats what so many have been going after for years now.

centering is everything
 

As a favor to all of you, I will send you this perfect centered card for your garbage 73/30 Mantle rookie or perhaps a miscut t206 Wagner. No need to thank me.

Glad we all like different stuff.

Leaves more centered copies for me. :D

The '52 Mays example made me laugh. It's tough. So tough that even after I finally found one centered, I couldn't pass up a nicer raw second one I found, just because it was centered :D

And I'm not an impartial party here -- when I started really collecting vintage about 10 years ago, I made my primary focus on centering, so that's how my collection has been built.
It's right for me -- as long as the eye appeal is good as well. I can handle a soft corner, no problem...

Attachment 412518Attachment 412517

Haha....so that’s why I couldn’t find a centered mid-grade 52 Bowman Mays....because you are hoarding them :)

I’m mostly a 1956 Topps collector and I strongly agree with the above. It’s all about overall eye appeal, and the human desire for centering is a big part of that. I recently added this centered Williams and I probably paid an additional 20% compared to an average 6 without a second thought. I had been looking for a nice example for at least two years so I jumped at the chance for this one.

https://farm66.staticflickr.com/6553...209a8c54_z.jpg


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Beauty is in the eye of the holder
 

Centering is definitely one of the top of the list qualities for me - I think the only thing that would be more important is actual front or back damage (including creases). When I saw this thread I started contemplating why - what I came up with is for my eye the centering has a HUGE impact on the eye appeal of the card - an off center card pulls my eye immediately to the defect - a well centered card allows my eye to focus on the image - for me - soft corners all day long over an off center image.
As far as premium as has been mentioned it is card specific - for a rarity - condition is virtually out the window, centering or otherwise.
For a card that is more available but hard to find centered - ususally willing to cough up a 10-15% premium.

Centering, image quality/registration and strong ink are my big 3. Centering is absolutely mandatory for me. I won't even consider purchasing a card--regardless of price or scarcity that is visually off center. If a card sells for 1000.00 in NM-MT I'll pay 50% premium or more to go from 60/40 to nearly spot on.

I used to have a business partner who was a freak about corners but didn't care about centering. I like reasonable centering but care less about corners. As for me, I don't buy things that I plan to resell that are not well centered. I am happy to let commons slide now and then.

Also, I am more tolerant of moderate left to right centering issues but don't like top to bottom centering issues.

[QUOTE=bbcard1;2006079]I used to have a business partner who was a freak about corners but didn't care about centering. I like reasonable centering but care less about corners. As for me, I don't buy things that I plan to resell that are not well centered. I am happy to let commons slide now and then.

Also, I am more tolerant of moderate left to right centering issues but don't like top to bottom centering issues.[/QUOTE

I don't mind cards centered a bit low. I HATE cards centered high. Thin margin on top with a thick margin on the bottom is actually frustrating to me, Lol.

[QUOTE=Phil68;2006286]I am with you on the centering. I like big tops and average, or big, bottoms...

I have to say that it depends on the rarity of the card. If I cant get the card normally, I'll take what can and perhaps upgrade when or if I can

That's one gorgeous '56 Williams there!!! Thanks for sharing.

To look at it from another angle, I don't pay any less for something like this compared to the same card in similar condition with more typical centering.

Brian

Thanks, I appreciate it.


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I'm not a centering freak. I don't mind a little off-center (let's say 70-30) but once you get to 90-10, then it bugs me a little.

What the heck to the TPGs use to determine centering. I think they "eyeball" it in most cases because (not trying to pick on PSA, but...) there are so many cases where I've seen OC qualifiers on some cards that were marginally OC for the grade and then I've seen cards that should have had an OC qualifier that didn't.

IMHO, I believe that TPGs really need to not "eyeball" centering if they're going to use it as a reason to lower a grade on a card. This is one of the criteria that PSA just doesn't seem to "measure" very well.

Centering is NOT subjective, it's something that can actually be measured. I guess the extra minute it would take to use a proper tool just isn't worth a graders time.

Don't think I've owned a more centered card.

Personally I agree centering makes or breaks the eye appeal. I tend to look at it from a different perspective, though it may be difficult to articulate. Centering is a factory defect. There is no way to change this once it is cut and packaged, Much like registration. Surface , edges and corners however may or may not endure nicely the test of time. To me having a 100 year old card with tight corners, strong colors and no creasing is where it's at. Also I would opine, myself included, many folks pay a premium for centered say in a "5" holder. Im okay doing this. But I will never pay a "7" or "8" price for a "5". Just my $.02.

Card Collector thoughts only, not a professional card guy by any means.

Meh !!
 

..Centering , schmentering , ya takes what ya gets outta da pack ( or sheet )

..http://imagehost.vendio.com/a/204295...TANDUP_NEW.JPG

..problems solved : five cents.....

..

I chose 10-20% for the poll, but for the right card will pay-up more. For post war a card has to have corners and centering. Pre-war, I'll take centering over corners all day.

Wow, that’s a nice Gehrig!


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I answered over 100% and it could be much higher depending on the card, and the quality of recent same grade sales. As others have said it really depends on the card, how hard it is to find centered, and the overall eye appeal. A nice dead centered 4 of iconic card hard to find centered could easily sell for more than twice what other off center cards have sold for.

These are the kind of sales people will start threads about because they don't understand the market and assume the sales were manipulated.

The Ted Williams, Cy Young, and Lou Gehrig cards pictured here are gorgeous. What a treat to see them. Thanks for posting those, owners!

Thanks! I love that Ted Williams too!


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When it comes to vintage, I am fine with fairly off-centered cards. There's something more pure about having plenty of them in my collection (since that's what you got out of packs way back when).

And since the fakes and reprints of the hallmark vintage cards usually have great centering, off-centered versions just give me a more genuine and nostalgic feeling to see and own.

As far as eye appeal, bad stains on the back bother me more than most things.

How Much More Will You Pay For Great Centering?
 

I led off the response to this thread last year with a story about paying a premium for a centered, midgrade card. However, just last week I bought this:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...34bccd248e.jpg

I do think it’s interesting that PSA will lead you to believe that the half grade “plus” is usually reserved only for nearly perfectly centered cards. In practice, I have found this not always to be the case. I digitally measured this guy at 68/32 left to right (55/45 T/B). ‘67’s can be difficult to judge, because they have overall thinner borders (borders with less total area) when compared to other vintage issues.

This stuck me as a sharp card for the grade regardless, and when the seller discounted it more than I had been anticipating - I pulled the trigger. I think it really does depend on the individual card…


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My 53 Bowman color set would only be about 35-40% centered, the majority of my cards have borders favoring the tops of the cards. Corners, wrinkles, and creases bother me far more than centering. Sometimes I will upgrade for a better-centered card if the price is right, but I'm mostly happy with what I have.

For certain cards finding the right blend of grade/eye-appeal and centering is important for me. Here is a good example. Not sure I will ever own this card in a higher grade but more than happy to have this low grade Mantle in my collection.

https://www.collectorfocus.com/image...mantle-psa-1.5

I paid a little more than market for this one last Fall. One thing no one's mentioned so far is that even for cards we may have felt we paid up for in the past, the market seems to have risen to meet us

https://i.imgur.com/iaRX0eUm.jpg

The color and clarity of the off center version makes it look much better to me. I like centering but it really depends. Many off Centered cards are great if they have eye appeal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crfpsTO4q3o&t=937s

go to start at 13:00
check the mantle and russell, see which one you guys think would rather have

Here is a card i recently purchased. It came at an ex-mt+ price. The centering doesn’t bother me at all. In fact, i dont understand the need for a qualifier. But it helped me be very satisfied with a great price for the card.

So would you rather have that card as a 5.5 or 7(OC)? Or does it matter?



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Every card I buy is for the PC. I look for low grade and centered. I'm okay with creases as long as they're not right across the middle. Centering is the most important.
Chrishttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...5a70ec42ae.jpg

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This is one of those technical gray areas due to published standards. My Seaver did not get a 5.5 due to centering; at least it shouldn't have. (It's due to corner wear). At not quite 70/30 s-s, it's technically good enough to get up to a straight 8 with that centering if nothing else is wrong with the card.

The standard to have an OC qualifier for a 7 would be worse than 75/25. So, an otherwise mint card like that if qualifiers were left off would ostensibly top out at a straight 6 - since the standard for a 6 is 80/20 or better. Make sense?

If given the choice, I'd rather have the straight grade with no qualifier. But no, in terms of eye appeal of the card - it doesn't really matter.

I've always been a corners guy, but this one seems pretty special in retrospect

E90-1 Young Boston
 

Yeah, so you got to me on that one and thanks for the sale :)
I guess it's debatable which is nicer.

+1

For me it about balance. Sharp corners and a good surface are first. Then centering. It also depends how bad the centering is. I can handle 70/30 but 90/10 probably not.

Man, that E90-1 Young has incredibly wide borders on both sides. Compare them to the miscut Thomas card below that shows the border width between 2 cards. It looks like Cy got more than 2/3 share of the border space on each side. Off-center cards do have their uses...

Brian

I'm with you. Centering is important, but not sure I'm on board with it being exponentially more important than every other aspect of condition that hobbyists have been judging for decades now. I've been known to occasionally keep a worse centered card with nicer corners and better color over a perfectly centered one with lesser attributes elsewhere. The last time I recall that definitely happening was with my '73 Schmidt RC.

In general, I can tolerate mild OC simply because it was so prevalent in cards that came out of postwar packs in the 1980's and before. 70/30 one way usually doesn't bother me. If I have to look at a card twice to determine whether or not it's miscut - that and things like 90/10 centering or "sliver" borders - usually do bother me.

On the whole I kind of chuckle at the centering craze that has enveloped the hobby post year 2000 or so. It's really just cognitive bias. I don't recall anyone at Topps ever coming out and saying that the "perfect" Topps baseball card had to be cut perfectly centered. Why do we believe this today? Because of hobbyists (and ahem, graders...) drumming that into us at every opportunity for the past 20 or 25 years, probably. Yes, a well centered card is a thing of beauty, I won't deny that. But just because that is true does not mean that a mildly OC card is inherently ugly / a pure factory reject from the word go, owing only to our modern day biases.

Bidders appear to value centering at twice the value of uncentered
 

Trigger Warning: My intent is to surface two ongoing auctions that may be of interest to followers of this thread/poll. In doing so, I intend to mention PWCC and discuss the two auctions as though PWCC is just another auction house. In doing so, it is not my intent to endorse the past, present, or future business practices of PWCC.

PWCC currently has two 1953 Topps Jackie Robinson #1 PSA 6 EXMT on auction. One closes on the 11th; the other on the 14th. The first one has full borders, but is badly centered; the latter one is close to perfectly centered. At present the first one is at $1,575; the latter is at $3,600.

It looks like as good a "vote with your money" poll on centering as you are likely to get.

In the past I would pay a premium but today the premium seems far greater in most situations. In this market I'm much less picky. For example I'm looking to collect the goudey Ruth's again and I'll take a bit off centered with nice eye appeal, color, focus and so on.

On the "Certified, Qualified, and Glorified" thread in the Watercooler discussion board the emphasis is on having the card, rather than looking for perfection. Yes, there are certain cards that don't have an appeal if they're off-center, but if one takes a good look at the cards displayed on this thread, there's nothing wrong with having them in one's collection. It comes down to what pleases the individual collector and perhaps affordability.

Bold color and registration over centering for me. Check out all these 52 topps mantle psa 1. Some great centering one with faded and beat up you can hardly see Mantle's face clearly. I rather have clear picture with him with bold color. Psa OC is a great buy

Yep, most collectors aren't that picky, so if you are looking to buy cards as investments you are much better off buying something that you can resell at VCP. Just a lot more buyers out there at that price point so the liquidity is better.

For my PC, I won’t typically pay a huge premium. That said, I will pay a hefty premium for great centering if I am buying for resale, knowing a lot of guys go gaga over 50/50.

Verdict on 53T Jackie PSA 6
 

Badly Off-Center: $3150
Perfectly Centered: $9142