Non-delivery/severe delay on a BST transaction
 

I wanted to poll the group on a friendly pre-war transaction the BST forum. Basically I ordered a couple pre-war cards on Dec 10 and I have not received them yet. The seller has been communicative when I ask questions and cordial but the investigation process just involves calling USPS which in my experience is not a wonderful experience for the caller nor does it achieve a ton. Anyway, he's making efforts there but the tracking has shown it as "in transit" for over a month. So my question is - how long do I wait until I get a refund? Two months? I'm assuming that folks agree that if a buyer doesn't receive an item they aren't responsible for it's cost but open to hearing other opinions there. Mostly though I just want to understand how long we should wait until I receive/ask for a refund.

Oh Additional wrinkle I just found out was that the seller didn't utilize insurance. I don't see any shipping issues as relevant to me since I didn't make any decisions on method - carrier etc. but again happy to hear if others differ.

I will also reiterate that the seller has been responsive and nice and it's not a contentious thing - I just want an independent opinion on next steps.

I had a similar situation with an ebay card purchase. Mine was an S74 silk from a guy in Pennsylvania. Shipped on the 5th of December. Nothing by New Years so seller refunded. According to tracking fell off the face of the earth on the 9th of December. USPS has no clue as to what happened. May or may not show up. Ugh

Has he filed a lost package claim with USPS? I have had to do that twice in the last year. Both times USPS has found the package and delivered it in a couple days. Otherwise, the package may sit somewhere in their system for months.

Seller is responsible until package is delivered. Have you and the seller discussed a refund?

Just so we are clear on this matter. I am the sender of the package in question. I have contacted both the Pittsburgh consumer affairs department and the Long Island consumer affairs departments of the USPS. I am waiting to hear back from the latter. I have also previously opened not one, but two cases in the matter which were closed out on New York's end without notice or any information of any kind. As anyone who deals with me knows, I send out packages certified mail for tracking purposes.

I think USPS had some holiday issues that were a tad worse than usual this year. The disorganization is apparent.

I had a package postmarked on 10/3 show up last Friday, more than 90 days after post. It showed "in transit" the entire time and the seller refunded me in November.

I reached out to them this weekend to provide payment as it was the right thing to do, however I have never had something bounce around the PO like this previously. I feel like something is up and it was not the seller.

No matter what the above is always true.

With that said it is up to the reciepetiant how long they should wait till they should get refunded.

I have had this exact problem on both sides with members. As the seller I offer a refund after about 2 weeks. As a buyer I will easily wait a month.

I had a weird one with a trade where my stuff showed up on time and the other persons took close to a month to show up at my house. They did not provide a tracking #. Then when it finally showed up I looked at the date on the package and they had just sent it a few days earlier.:(

Usps
 

Hi Brian, go online and file a complaint with one of your Congressman/woman. The complaint will go right to the District Manager, who will bring a shit storm on the Consumer Affairs office to resolve this. It doesn't always work, because sometimes things just disappear, but many times they will resolve it quickly.

Deal with BVH
 

Just to add my 2 cents, I just did a deal with Brian and everything went perfectly fine. I would only add that this doesn't seem to all be a seller issue, but more of a transportation one.

Delay
 

I have had the same thing happen to me selling a card. After about 2 weeks of it showing in transit I refunded the money, it wasn't much over a hundred dollars. About 3 weeks later the buyer contacted me that it had showed up and paid me again. It took about 5 weeks to show up. As a seller I feel that after 2 weeks or so I should send a refund, but that's just me.

+1 on Brian. Always very diligent in his shipping and tracking. I am confident he'll do the right thing regardless of whether the package (and contents) are ever found again.

have two tracked pagages out on the road
 

over a month each. A third was sent out from FLA PO to Florida address - sent to other side of the country and now is back in originating PO to be sent out again from here to Florida address.....

edited to add a response for the OP that 30-45 days seems reasonable to me but we're a person to person type group here and a bit more flexibility especially with a known seller might be in order. Seller also has shown he is WORKING ON IT.

no guarantees whether written or implied

Whenever I have a package where the tracking is not showing no movement, and its been 2 weeks or more, I file a stolen mail complaint saying I suspect a USPS employee stole the package.

Package gets "found" real fast.

Delay
 

I want to add I have bought from Brian before too. Package arrived in a timely manner and well packaged. Very smooth transition.

This issue has happened to us 3 times over the last few months and we ship out many packages, daily. 1 of the problem packages was 37 days for a Priority! Follow up and get your local USPS to help start the research process. My guess is the package shows up shortly after the USPS starts the process.
Yes, shipper is still responsible but hope recipent is understanding and patient while the process plays out

The same has happened to me twice. Both times package showed it had arrived at the Earth City MO facility ( and maybe departed facility) then nothing for a couple months both times. I was patient. Items arrived fine.

package
 

Interesting, I would never think to contact a local congressman regarding a missing baseball card delv. ??

Whats that old song " Id like to help you son,but your too young to vote " !!

Yes
 

Yes, the USPS is a Federal Agency (Quasi), so Congress is in charge of it.

Another old saying "I'm from the government and I am here to help". When you hear that you know you will be bottle-necked in red tape for the next 6 months.

I have no dog in this fight, but disagree that in all cases the seller assumes the risk of loss. Each case is different and must be negotiated prior to finishing the transaction. The seller could offer to insure the package only if the buyer pays the insurance cost. If the buyer turns this down then risk of loss must be borne by the buyer. I have dealt with Brian many times in the past and each time we have discussed this very issue and I have paid the insurance. BTW, Brian is a great counterparty and always a pleasure to deal with.

For me the only way the seller does not assume the loss is if the buyer requests it sent a cheaper way like in a PWE.

Jay I send payment TTM most of the time. If my payment doesn't show up would you still send me the cards even though my payment didn't show up?

I am sure we all agree Brian is a good guy.:)

For the record - I had no interest in exposing the transaction - I really just wanted both of us to see what people would do in this situation and how long to wait. I have zero suspicion that this is in any way Brian's fault - just wanted to make that clear. I want to do what is right and fair in this situation - the verdict is basically that I'm going to wait a while longer. Thank you all for your input...

Insurance protects the seller.

If the buyer does decline insurance then they should bear responsibility but PayPal does not see it that way. PayPal (If paid by G&S) will refund the buyer if package was lost.

No one is questioning Brian's integrity.

As discussed many times, certified mail, while reportedly the safest way to go, it slow as shit. I've had a month go by with total confusion before seeing any movement. I always imagine some poor bastard has gone off to the hospital for weeks and the package is waiting on his desk because for some reason he has to sign it next and only him. I've never had a problem with dozens of BST transactions just going with a priority box and tracking.

I'm always on the fence about asking for higher levels of insurance. In a way I feel like that does nothing but flag it as something worth stealing if one is so inclined. On the other hand, with cameras, computers, etc., I suspect it would be awfully hard to a USPS employee to pilfer a package.

I just sent a $3500 BST purchase Certified from PA to TX and it only took a week. It's just unpredictable.

I’m sure you have probably done this, but just in case. Go to the tracking site and sign up for email notification of all movements. I have had packages take for ever in shipping, did this, and it miraculously showed up a few days later. Can’t hurt.

I doubt it would be hard at all for the delivery person. They are getting busted with their house/garage filled with undelivered mail on a fairly regular basis. My brother got an several year old piece of mail returned. They busted a delivery person with his garage and house full of undelivered mail. The USPS did their best to return all the mail they could.

+1

Look up your rep here (https://www.house.gov/representative...representative) and call one of their in-State offices. Tell them you’re a constituent and need help with a USPS issue

[QUOTE=bnorth;1947447]For me the only way the seller does not assume the loss is if the buyer requests it sent a cheaper way like in a PWE.

Jay I send payment TTM most of the time. If my payment doesn't show up would you still send me the cards even though my payment didn't show up?

I am sure we all agree Brian is a good guy.:)[/QUOTE

I completely disagree that the seller assumes the loss and must provide a refund. Take a look at the Uniform Commercial Code.

UCC 2-509, entitled “Risk of Loss in the Absence of Breach” provides, in pertinent part:

(1) Where the contract requires or authorizes the seller to ship the goods by carrier

(a) if it does not require him to deliver them at a particular destination, the risk of loss passes to the buyer when the goods are duly delivered to the carrier even though the shipment is under reservation (Section 2-505); but

(b) if it does require him to deliver them at a particular destination and the goods are duly tendered while in the possession of the carrier, the risk of loss passes to the buyer when the goods are duly so tendered as to enable the buyer to take delivery.

The Official Commentary confirms that the scope of this section is expressly limited to scenarios where there has been no breach by the seller. In the alternative, if the delivery fails to comply with the contract specifications, UCC 2-509 does not apply and the situation is governed by the provisions on effect of breach on risk of loss. Accordingly, the analysis offered herein is limited to those situations where no breach has occurred.

A cursory reading of the provision confirms that if the seller is required to ship the goods by carrier, but not required to deliver the goods at a particular destination, the risk of loss passes to the buyer when the seller duly tenders them to the carrier. § 2-509(1)(a). To the contrary, when the seller is required to deliver the goods to a particular destination, the seller bears the risk of loss until tender of delivery at the destination. § 2-509(1)(b).

I'm still waiting on a package "out for delivery" from January 3. I'm going to try this. Thank you.

I've had to file 3 missing mail cases in the past year. One was in transit for over 30 days and I refunded only to have the item show up a couple days later.

The other two packages were both mailed on the same day, both accepted by the Houston PO on 4/20 both still in transit on 4/24 and both never heard from again. They were heading to different destinations...One about four hours away in Dallas, the other to New York. That to me seems like an obvious stolen mail situation.

Having to deal with the USPS for customer service issues is an absolute worst case scenario. Their customer service, if you can actually reach a human is an abomination, their website is a nightmare and quite frankly you never get the sense anyone gives a S#!t.

I didn't file a stolen mail case, I filed a missing mail case. In both cases, I received calls from the destination post office which was pointless, because I knew the packages never made it there. The problem was in Houston. Nothing was ever found and to this day, once a month I'll get an email from the USPS saying they've still found nothing and sorry for the inconvenience.

Next time I will file a stolen mail case and also try the Congressman.

It sounds like the participants here are both straight up guys. At this point, I'd just refund the money and if the cards show, pay again.

+1

Continued advice on a lack of refund
 

Hi all - I'm the original poster here - we've sadly reached the end of a productive conversation so I'll provide a quick update here since I'm not sure what else to do and could use some advice. Here are the highlights:

-A month has gone by and I've not heard a word from the seller
-I got one update the morning after I posted this about a phone call into a post office - after that nothing
-other than the above communication I've not gotten a single proactive message about the issue (always at my request)
-the seller chose to not use insurance but rather used certified mail - I've seen a tracking number that proves something was sent somewhere and is sitting somewhere.
-the seller looked up an address of a property I own and has asked multiple times why the cards weren't sent to an address of a house I own that my mother in law lives in
- presumably this address was looked up on White Pages via my name
- I asked for a refund today finally after over two months and in return got another question about this address he looked up.
-finally he told me that he's researching whether he needs to refund me since he has proof he sent something in a piece of mail

I'm super discouraged by this experience - I would have preferred to not have the seller identified but he's named himself here on this thread. I feel like I've been super patient here but the lack of communication and the strange questions about this other property have totally dead-ended the conversation. Happy to have the seller correct/amend anything I've said here.

It's been two months...

Refund the buyer. He seems like a stand-up guy and will likely send payment again if it is received, even though he's not required to.

If paid with PayPal I'd begin the process of a refund ASAP.

Insurance
 

One thing about insurance, correct me if I'm wrong, but it's basically worthless for what we generally do. You have to have a receipt showing proof of the purchase price, otherwise you only get the $50 standard insurance. So if I bought a Ryan RC in a pack from Woolworth's back in 1968, I need to have the receipt, showing that I paid 20 cents for it, in order to be reimbursed that 20 cents. Not the thousands of dollars that it's worth...the USPS doesn't care about that. Maybe you can still get the $50, but I'm not sure who's entitled to it, the sender or the receiver. The whole thing sucks. As does the USPS.

I have had one experience with insurance, and I found it to be worthless. Depending on cost of item, signature required or certified seems like a better option. A postal carrier friend recommends certified. Just my two cents.

Sorry to hear about this whole situation. It’s really hard on both parties when a piece of mail like we send gets lost. It’s natural for suspicions to arise, but I think by and large, we are all doing the right thing. I hope it works out.


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Refund the guy his money. He’s been MORE than patient.

I never would have guessed this. Why do ebay card sellers even have insurance as a standard part of expensive purchases then? Could the value not be proven by the ebay/paypal "receipt"?

Seller can't control the mail but they sure should issue a refund after this much time has passed.

The address thing is very weird. Hopefully they quit researching and refund.

First, insurance works if it is a recent transaction. If a card sold for $200 is insured for $200 and lost, all the insurer has to do is show proof of the transaction and the PO will pay. Second, unless insurance was discussed prior to completing the transaction the buyer has no basis to assume that the seller bears the cost of the insurance. If the buyer wanted the card insured he should have requested it and worked out who would pay for it then. Since no one brought up insurance I think the best solution is for Brian to refund half the card's cost and leave this as a learning lesson for both parties.

My opinion
 

To the seller: Do not issue a refund unless the shipping terms were negotiated and the parties agreed that the seller incurred the risk until successfully delivered. Absent those terms, the seller satisfied his requirements under the contract when he delivered the card to the third-party shipper.

The seller has provided proof this occurred. The buyer had the shipping risk once the seller handed the card to the Postal Service. I’m optimistic this is the correct legal outcome. The parties certainly had the right to negotiate and change these terms and outline who bore the shipping risk. Apparently, this did not occur.

Why should a seller now eat the cost, if the contract did not include the shipping method, type, insurance, etc. Absent those terms negotiated and agreed upon, the seller satisfied the contract when the Postal Service took possession and the seller has provided proof he shipped the item.

This was not an eBay transaction or a regular PayPal one (Friends and Family I’m assuming). This was a transaction between two private individuals. It’s a tough lesson, but the correct outcome. The seller wins this dispute.

I completely disagree.

I agree.

Amen

You can disagree all you want. Please provide some analysis - legal analysis, as to why you disagree please.

The buyer paid for a card to be delivered, not shipped. It was not delivered.

Never mind.

I have not seen the parties’ emails containing the valid contract - the offer, acceptance, and consideration. However, I highly doubt the contract specified who bore the shipping risk. I’m assuming the invitation for an offer stated something to the effect, ‘card ABC, $100 net to me, shipped.’ This is what we almost always see on this board. Note the key word - shipped; not delivered.

The buyer then probably responded to the invitation and offered to purchase under those terms. He probably replied, ‘I’ll take it.’ The seller then accepted this offer and consideration was exchanged.

Again, the invitation to offer, which the buyer likely responded to, more than likely stated “shipped.” The seller then bore the cards’ risk from the moment immediately after the sale through the time he paid the postage and handed possession to the third-party carrier. At that time, the risk transferred to the buyer.

I’ll stand by my position.

This thread does serve a purpose for me, however. I will go on record here and state that I will not enter any transaction with this or any seller who takes the position that I as buyer bear the risk of loss on a package sent by certified mail, unless:
1) I expressly and affirmatively agree to accept that risk; and
2) the package is properly addressed and packaged.

Insurance just isn't that much for seller to factor into his price, and combined with signature confirmation makes certified mail unnecessary. For higher dollar items, I use registered mail.

Did the seller offer insurance? Did the seller say this is the priced "delivered" or "shipped" price? Im not sure why the seller would question some different address only after the package got mailed, its moot. The seller having the buyer pay him as Friends and Family put all the risk on the buyer (from Paypal perspective).

Was insurance even used on this deal as I thought priority mail offered like a maximum of 50.00. Im not sure what the dollar amount is, but there should be some accountability.

I have never been apart of a trade or sale where no insurance was involved. I think it's the responsibility on the seller to get the item there and if it gets lost, then the seller gets paid from the insurance claim (which then gets refunded back to the buyer).

Both parties are board members here so hopefully it gets resolved and lesson learned.

I agree with Tyrus that most people are very sloppy with their language when entering into a transaction. Insurance should always be discussed. Taking things a step further, people should think about how things are insured when they deal with auction houses. When you ship a consignment to an auction house is the auction house insuring the items? What is the value the items are insured for? Is this aggregate value broken down for each item? If you sent ten items to Auction A and it is agreed that they will be insured for say $50,000, and it turns out that one of the items is lost, what portion of that $50,000 is assigned to that lost item? Who determines that? If you ship a set of cards to an auction house and a few of the cards in the set are lost, how do you value them? Are you relying on the auction house’s insurance company to determine value, or are you relying on the auction house, or have you predetermined value? Most people don’t think these issues through and are upset when something happens and the results are not what they would like them to be.

I have always assumed that it is the buyer’s responsibility to get the payment to the seller and the seller’s responsibility to get the product to the buyer, unless other provisions are agreed upon.

Might make for a good poll.

Rob-What you assume makes no difference because the other party may be assuming something else. Why not just discuss it at the time the deal is being negotiated?

In all of my transactions, selling and buying, over the past 40 odd years, I have never had such a discussion. I have always operated as the previous poster says, that the seller and buyer need to each complete their end of the deal (get the product/payment safely to the other person.)

If paid by PayPal Goods, its the sellers responsibility until the package is delivered. If paid by PayPal Friends, the buyer just learned a valuable lesson. When you pay by Friends, you give up all of PayPal's buyer protection. I never use PayPal Friends, I add the extra fee. This situation is exactly why, long time trusted seller who it appears is not going to refund on a lost package. Always protect yourself.

Personally, PayPal rules shouldn't matter, the seller should do the right thing and refund.

Non-delivery/severe delay on a BST transaction
 

A long, drawn-out legal discussion aside, at least in the eBay and PayPal world, the heavy assumption is that it’s the seller’s responsibility to DELIVER the item to the buyer if the buyer has properly paid. OP - did you pay with PayPal G&S? If so, simply go dispute the transaction. If tracking shows you never got the item, they’ll refund you. Unlike my much more difficult case with eBay where the USPS marked an item delivered when it was really lost / stolen. To be honest this is why I’m hesitant to buy super pricey things not on eBay. If it gets lost that way, you have both eBay and PayPal standing behind you. I’ve had 2 items, maybe $100-150 each - lost by the USPS this year. Not high percentage-wise, but it does happen. One I got reimbursed, the other I didn’t. And no matter the value, it’s just an awful feeling.

Hope this can be resolved in a positive way, even with a lot of time lost.


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"-the seller chose to not use insurance but rather used certified mail - I've seen a tracking number that proves something was sent somewhere and is sitting somewhere."

Is your zip code the same as the one on the Certified?

If not, would it be sitting in the Post Office of the zip code that was on the Certified?

The rules we play by are very clear to me...if you buy a card, you get the card...or a refund. Any weaseling out of your obligation to deliver one of these two things is disgusting. As as seller I protect myself with insurance and proof of delivery...it is not the buyers job to cover my responsibilities.

Mac

I'm confused as to the whole address thing as well. Did the buyer give the seller the address to ship the card to, or did the seller just grab the address on his own??

Me too. It is very easy. Barring any language to the contrary, both sides have to meet their obligation. If I don't talk about anything concerning the delivery and, as a seller I say "delivered", then it is on me as the seller. Now if I say "plus whatever shipping and/or insurance you want" then the obligation goes back to the buyer to either protect themselves or not. Very clear to me too.

+1

Totally agree, Mac

As a seller I use signature confirmation, and by default "self-insure". As a buyer I nearly always, but not exclusively, use Paypal G\S. The exception is when I successfully deal with someone multiple times. I need to rethink that practice.

Edited to add: Some posted their interperetation of the contract legalities siding with the seller (and they may be correct under the law). However, there exists a "norm" in the hobby that differs, and is the one under which I believe most of us operate.

Yikes.

As a seller myself, I feel I'm responsible for the item getting delivered. I've had multiple instances where an item has not reached the destination and I've had to eat the cost - it sucks, but I accept that as part of running an online/shipping based business.

The only examples I can really think of when I do not accept responsibility for delivery are when a buyer asks for items to be shipped without tracking to save on shipping costs, the buyer is in a country with poor logistics infrastructure and I clearly state I will not be held responsible if they want it shipped there, and/or when an item has been marked as delivered by a postal service but the buyer says they did not receive it (at that point I will try to help, but I feel it now becomes the buyer's responsibility assuming I have put in all of the correct details).

Certified
 

Certified is not the safest way to go. Certified mail goes in the regular mail stream with all of the other mail. The only protection you receive is the carrier signs for the certified piece before he/she heads out on the route, and the item cannot be delivered without the recipients signature. Then, the carrier shows the signature to the supervisor, upon return to the office, and the carrier is cleared.

Registered Mail is the safest route. It gets signed for by everyone who has contact with the Registered item, even the truck drivers have to sign a log for Registered items that are on their truck. The Registered item is kept separate from the rest of the mail and it never goes into the regular mail stream.

Rick, does Registered get delivered by my regular mail carrier?

It can. I have had 2 lost mail claims in over 20 years on EBay. Both times by showing what I sold the card for USPS paid for the lost item. Insurance is purchased by the seller and the claim paid to the seller.

Leon-Why not take the doubt out of it? Add a statement on the BST that sellers assume risk of loss until the item is delivered to the buyer unless stated otherwise.

Yes
 

Yes

Well put.

I’m sorry. I just do not understand why people think the seller should bear the entire loss. I’ve thoroughly explained the legal analysis, and how it works in the real world. People either do not know the law or simply do not care. People have grown so accustomed to how EBay and PayPal handle things.

These companies’ policies are just that - their policies. They are not the law and do not control two private individuals entering into a contract, especially if just Friends/Family is used.

Buyers and sellers need to take responsibility for their actions. Do your due diligence. Do not leave anything to chance or assumption. The reason is that one contractual party may assume A, while the other party assumes Z. The parties need to spell out the deal’s entire terms and conditions. It is not hard or difficult.

If two people enter into a contract that includes shipping, the contract is completed when the shipping carrier takes possession. It does not include delivery unless specified. The reason is that the seller, like the buyer, has no control over UPS, FedEx or the Postal Service. The seller is not the one delivering the package.

Yes, the seller may have chosen the Postal Service over UPS, but that decision, absent a negotiated carrier, still does not shift the loss risk onto the seller. These are acceptable carriers.

If a third-party carrier loses the package, it is not the seller’s fault. So, why should he take all the loss? What did he do wrong? The seller is also not at fault. So, the law aside, because both parties are innocent, and because this is a friendly board, I’d say to split the difference. Both parties take a 50% hit. But, those clamoring for the seller to take all the loss, absent certain negotiated terms, such as the required carrier, who bears the loss burden, insurance, etc., are just wrong - in equity and the law.

Geez, stop playing lawyer when you aren’t one.

There was no provision in the contract regarding the delivery method or choice of a common carrier. He simply purchased a card and a card was not received.

The seller saved a few bucks avoiding insurance and has probably done so many times before. That’s fine. But this Time the odds were against him and the seller needs to pay back the buyer from the accumulation of prior shipping savings.

anyone with an ounce of common sense disagrees (I am agreeing with you)

come on jay. you have been in the hobby longer than 99 percent of the people on this board. it has ALWAYS been that the seller assumes the risk and is responsible for getting the card to the buyer. there are article in hobby papers from the 70s stating this. sometimes you want to argue just to argue

Just so everyone is aware, I am not sidestepping my responsibilities in this matter. I have repeatedly been in contact with both the USPS consumer affairs department in Pittsburgh and Long Island, NY. Next week a refund will be issued, unless by some chance the package is found. I don't ask for any sympathy. All I will point out is that for the better number of the last twenty years, I have used certified mail. My estimate is this has totaled over 4,000 transactions. This is the second transaction via certified mail in which the cards have not arrived. The previous resulted in a refund to the buyer. I am just putting this statement out there and do with it what you will.

Completely disagree. Every transaction that I have ever been involved in I have brought up insurance. Many sellers offer in as part of the selling price, some do not. I never assume it is included--I check.

I feel like saying, You manage it and you got a deal :).
No way in h. e. double toothpicks will that happen.

we need a card.,...(and graders who can authenticate cards but that is for another thread. :) )

https://luckeycards.com/pf52frojoyruth.jpg

These aren't EBay and Paypal's policies. These are the policies of every credit card and issuing bank. EBay and PayPal have adopted them, but do make a few exemptions such as having tracking and showing it delivered, but the buyer claims they didn't receive. Their only other option would be to eat a bunch of charge backs.

We have a good thing here with people paying with friends and family to save both parties PayPal fees. If this becomes a thing where sellers are going to expect to get paid for cards that aren't delivered, then that is going away. Sellers will pay with their credit card to be protected from loss. The seller choses the shipper. The seller choses to buy insurance or not. Why should the buyer be penalized for choices the seller makes?

Paypay G/S versus F/F transaction--the rest of the story.

Working with a dealer with transaction to purchase a Gehrig Goudy card, I was a little short on cash to acquire card.

Not excepting a check, or credit card I was politely asked if I had Paypal--Yes, no problem I replied.

F/F I was advised would save us both a little $$--again no problem I thought. Having to use my cell phone I had issues with hitting those little numbers/letters. A young computer savvy person was watching my dilemma volunteered to assist. He entered the request and sent $1,000. After all was sent, the money went to someone else whom I didn't know. The young person said sorry and went on his business..Have I been scammed ?

I called Paypal several times and was advised because the funds were transferred per F/F there was no recourse on their end since the funds were not transferred per G/S! When I tries to use Paypal again to purchase the card my account was blocked, no fault of the seller.

I had to leave the show Sunday to catch my flight so didn't have a chance to go back to make the deal. I thought to myself I'm lucky it wasn't more money lost.

When I arrived home I received an email asking why I sent $1,000 to him. I relied what happened. He promptly refunded the money.

Moral of the story, IMO there are more honest people out there than not.

How nice for you. If you'll take a moment to reread, you'll see that the OP didn't ask for a legal opinion, he asked about what course to take. In my experience, people who replace a moral compass with legal chapter and verse are people I'd rather stay away from.

I don't buy many cards these days, but when I do it certainly won't be from you.

Whats your name? With 20 posts, I should say welcome to the forum. By chance do you know either party involved in this transaction?

As a seller since 1997 I always accept responsibility until the package shows delivered. However, I have had a few instances where a package shows delivered and the buyer claims that they didn't receive it. That is where I put my foot down and say that my job as a seller is complete and I no longer have liability for the lost package.

Jeff

Hope you don't take a loss, but but you are doing the right thing. As a past satisfied buyer from you I take notice and continue to have you on my list of "Grade A" sellers