Net54baseball.com Forums

Net54baseball.com Forums (http://www.net54baseball.com/index.php)
-   Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions (http://www.net54baseball.com/forumdisplay.php?f=2)
-   -   Missing Mantle Rookie at National (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=258272)

lowpopper 08-05-2018 07:12 PM

Missing Mantle Rookie at National
 
1951 Bowman Mickey Mantle PSA 4

Cert# 41944340

Any info as to whereabouts are appreciated.

If this pops up anywhere, contact me immediately. Thanks.

Peter_Spaeth 08-05-2018 07:13 PM

Good luck Greg. Hope there is an innocent explanation.

Zan 08-05-2018 07:13 PM

I cannot stand thieves. Best of luck finding it I will keep an eye out.

samosa4u 08-05-2018 07:27 PM

How the hell did that happen? :eek:

lowpopper 08-05-2018 07:33 PM

Missing mantle
 
Although it could be the case, I do not want to perpetuate an idea of thievery without iron-clad proof.

I would be more than happy just to receive my item back and completely drop the issue. In fact, I would celebrate the person who came forward whether it was “found” or “stolen”

It takes a real man/woman to return an item to a semi-anonymous owner, knowing they could easily just keep it.

I really just want my card back.

With that said, everyone please be on the lookout. Thanks in advance.

1952boyntoncollector 08-05-2018 07:49 PM

a picture may be good in case it goes into another holder

lowpopper 08-05-2018 08:47 PM

Missing mantle
 
https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1838/4...93f08f92_b.jpg

1952boyntoncollector 08-05-2018 09:07 PM

nice card..no print lines....purple label to boot

btcarfagno 08-05-2018 10:29 PM

There do seem to be some print lines. The lights pole in the background.....from the far right of the lights between there and the bottom of the bat there seems to be some print marks. Could be like a fingerprint maybe? I'm not super familiar with this card but just hoping it could be the case for OP's sake.

Fred 08-05-2018 10:45 PM

Truly sucks.... if it is stolen (not accidentally lost in the shuffle of closing down shop at the National) then it would be funny as hell if the thief put it up for auction on ebay.....

Really sorry to hear about that. Crap like that just makes you feel like you've been kicked square in the nuts... hope you find it somewhere in a stack of cards when you get home.

glynparson 08-06-2018 03:43 PM

Very sorry to hear this
 
I hate hearing these stories. I go around trying to buy cards a lot and will keep my eyes open encase it makes its way to the Philly, Jersey, NY area. Hope it turns up. Did you rent showcases? maybe it slid under the pad stranger things have happened if so give Levi a call if he found one i am positive he would return it. I would also send SGC PSA and Beckett scans as large as you can so they can be on the lookout for the card. Good Luck and I hope it was something innocent and if not I hope Karma pays the a hole that took it a visit sooner rather than later.

lowpopper 08-06-2018 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by btcarfagno (Post 1801081)
There do seem to be some print lines. The lights pole in the background.....from the far right of the lights between there and the bottom of the bat there seems to be some print marks. Could be like a fingerprint maybe? I'm not super familiar with this card but just hoping it could be the case for OP's sake.


I appreciate the idea but this is a picture I took of the card about
an hour before it “disappeared”.

A healthy reward is in order.

bobbyw8469 08-06-2018 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowpopper (Post 1801339)
I appreciate the idea but this is a picture I took of the card about
an hour before it “disappeared”.

A healthy reward is in order.

That freaking sucks Greg....seems like every year you hear stories of cards like these disappearing at the National. Horrible, horrible feeling.

orly57 08-06-2018 09:09 PM

I’m sure the thief will break it out of the holder and eventually send to grade. With that thick bottom border and the multiple print dots, I think it’s a card that would stick out to a grader if you notify psa and sgc to keep an eye out for you. I don’t know about psa, but I’m sure that Dave and the guys at SGC would look out for new 51 mantle submissions if you showed them a pic.

Rookiemonster 08-06-2018 10:08 PM

Sorry to hear about your card. I hope it finds it way home.

What ever happened to Rob Schneider's 1951 Willie Mays ? How does a card with such a high profile just disappear?

Aquarian Sports Cards 08-06-2018 10:19 PM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.a30ca1a26f7f

shagrotn77 08-06-2018 10:32 PM

Sorry to hear this happened. I hope the story has a good ending. Off topic, but what is the purple label all about?

Sean 08-06-2018 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shagrotn77 (Post 1801381)
Sorry to hear this happened. I hope the story has a good ending. Off topic, but what is the purple label all about?

There was a thread about them a couple weeks ago.

swarmee 08-07-2018 04:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shagrotn77 (Post 1801381)
Off topic, but what is the purple label all about?

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ghlight=purple

CurtisFlood 08-07-2018 07:22 PM

Sorry for your loss. That is a great card, one I have never owned. Had a PSA 5 1952 Mick about five years ago, but just haven't ponied up for the Bowman.

I hope something comes of this. The perpetrator likely will sell this raw rather than attempt to grade it again. I'd love to spit some beech nut in that dude's eye and shoot him with my old 45 to paraphrase Hank Jr.

sterlingfox 08-08-2018 07:36 AM

Very sorry to hear this happened to you, Greg.

On the last day of the show, I was at a dealer's table when someone (from loss prevention, I'm assuming) came up to him and told him that his table and at least 7 others nearby were not within any surveillance camera's reach for the entire show.

He also claimed that there were 10 thefts reported that day alone :eek:

pokerplyr80 08-08-2018 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rookiemonster (Post 1801374)
Sorry to hear about your card. I hope it finds it way home.

What ever happened to Rob Schneider's 1951 Willie Mays ? How does a card with such a high profile just disappear?

Probably the same way a missing painting worth millions does. Its sold on the black market and sits in a private collection for years.

I had a similar scare last year with my 51 Mantle but luckily my story had a happy ending. Hopefully yours will have the same.

1952boyntoncollector 08-08-2018 09:58 AM

if there was an owner registry..someone would look up the Cert and see it belongs to someone else

the crook will have to crack it out and it can then be sold like a painting....................... of course the value would go down if sold with no holder or if re submit may get a lesser grade , however you would hope you can send a picture of the card to SGC and PSA and they can be on the lookout for any new submissions..

Peter_Spaeth 08-08-2018 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orly57 (Post 1801359)
I’m sure the thief will break it out of the holder and eventually send to grade. With that thick bottom border and the multiple print dots, I think it’s a card that would stick out to a grader if you notify psa and sgc to keep an eye out for you. I don’t know about psa, but I’m sure that Dave and the guys at SGC would look out for new 51 mantle submissions if you showed them a pic.

Why take that chance? It's found money as a raw card.

MikeGarcia 08-08-2018 02:56 PM

Just Being Nosey ...
 
Does Homeowners' Insurance offer coverage in an instance like this ? Property theft , just not physically in the home at the time ?

.. I'm sure they will want a police report , etc. etc.

..

pokerplyr80 08-08-2018 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeGarcia (Post 1801963)
Does Homeowners' Insurance offer coverage in an instance like this ? Property theft , just not physically in the home at the time ?

.. I'm sure they will want a police report , etc. etc.

..

Most home insurance policies have small limits on collectibles. I'm not sure if collect insure would cover a loss outside of the home.

Tennis13 08-08-2018 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80 (Post 1801965)
Most home insurance policies have small limits on collectibles. I'm not sure if collect insure would cover a loss outside of the home.

There were actually 2 booths of cellectibles insurance companies at The National. I thought it would be a cool business, if you could price it properly. I feel like it’s kinda adverse selection at its worst, though. I bet lots of people have things stolen or lost when the exonomy turns lower and have them insured at a higher value than market in those instances.

orly57 08-08-2018 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1801900)
Why take that chance? It's found money as a raw card.

Did you just ask why a guy who brazenly stole a 10k card from a dealer at a national card convention would “take that chance?” If criminals didn’t take chances, I would be a Literature Professor at the University of Miami. :) Either way, the logic applies: the card is pretty unique, and should be spotted by anyone who is aware that it was stolen. The fantastic left-to-right centering, coupled with the 95/5 (or so) top-to-bottom centering and multiple print dots are, as someone wrote, “a fingerprint.” It wouldn’t hurt to ask psa and sgc to keep an eye out.

Peter_Spaeth 08-08-2018 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orly57 (Post 1801976)
Did you just ask why a guy who brazenly stole a 10k card from a dealer at a national card convention would “take that chance?” If criminals didn’t take chances, I would be a Literature Professor at the University of Miami. :) Either way, the logic applies: the card is pretty unique, and should be spotted by anyone who is aware that it was stolen. The fantastic left-to-right centering, coupled with the 95/5 (or so) top-to-bottom centering and multiple print dots are, as someone wrote, “a fingerprint.” It wouldn’t hurt to ask psa and sgc to keep an eye out.

Just because a guy takes a chance when he robs the bank doesn't mean he's going to compound his chances of getting caught by trying to deposit the stack of bills at another bank. I don't think your logic is right, really. I hope he trips up and gets caught, of course, but I am not optimistic.

Peter_Spaeth 08-08-2018 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80 (Post 1801965)
Most home insurance policies have small limits on collectibles. I'm not sure if collect insure would cover a loss outside of the home.

I would think not.

swarmee 08-08-2018 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1801981)
I would think not.

It does if you lose your engagement ring in the ocean; happened to a friend of mine.

orly57 08-08-2018 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1801980)
Just because a guy takes a chance when he robs the bank doesn't mean he's going to compound his chances of getting caught by trying to deposit the stack of bills at another bank. I don't think your logic is right, really. I hope he trips up and gets caught, of course, but I am not optimistic.

I was being tongue-in-cheek. Thought it was fairly obvious. I’ve seen dumber things in my career, but obviously, it doesn’t necessarily follow that they will couple one dumb act with another. The logic I was referring to was that the card is pretty unique, and anyone who is familiar with it, should pretty easily spot it due to its telltale markings and centering (or lack thereof).

Peter_Spaeth 08-08-2018 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orly57 (Post 1801994)
I was being tongue-in-cheek. Thought it was fairly obvious. I’ve seen dumber things in my career, but obviously, it doesn’t necessarily follow that they will couple one dumb act with another. The logic I was referring to was that the card is pretty unique, and anyone who is familiar with it, should pretty easily spot it due to its telltale markings and centering (or lack thereof).

Ah I missed that, professor. :D The good news I guess is that a thief can't convey good title and neither can a subsequent purchaser, so if it ever shows up down the road even in the hands of the Nth owner, Greg at least in theory should be able to get it back.

Rookiemonster 08-08-2018 06:32 PM

Pretty common centering on this mantle
 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/123297285540?ul_noapp=true

https://www.ebay.com/itm/142893266010?ul_noapp=true

https://www.ebay.com/itm/401576626688?ul_noapp=true

https://www.ebay.com/itm/202393187553?ul_noapp=true

Here is a sampling of 1951 Bowman Mantle that are currently available on eBay. The centering is the same. Almost any of theses card could be the missing Mantle. (Not saying they are) a that SGC is pretty nice. You can see that this card will be hard to find IMO. All the Mantles cards are in the grade range. They have pretty much the same centering.

Who ever has the card is more likely not from the area it was taken from. They could be hundreds or thousands of miles away.

Also I don’t think I ever got a receipt for a card I purchased at a show or store.
What if the card shows up? The owner says I paid you for it. I can sell a high priced card at a show then report it stolen. Right?


I mean if I seen one of theses mantles at a show tomorrow I might think HEY that’s the missing Mantle!! Or is it? Should I call the police on the spot and say I think that card could be stolen?


Sorry to be devils adovcate but if it’s cracked out it’s more likely gone. The best move would have been to crack it at the show and sell across the floor and leave.

dio 08-08-2018 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rookiemonster (Post 1802005)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/123297285540?ul_noapp=true

https://www.ebay.com/itm/142893266010?ul_noapp=true

https://www.ebay.com/itm/401576626688?ul_noapp=true

https://www.ebay.com/itm/202393187553?ul_noapp=true
Here is a sampling of 1951 Bowman Mantle that are currently available on eBay. The centering is the same. Almost any of theses card could be the missing Mantle. (Not saying they are) a that SGC is pretty nice. You can see that this card will be hard to find IMO. All the Mantles cards are in the grade range. They have pretty much the same centering.

Who ever has the card is more likely not from the area it was taken from. They could be hundreds or thousands of miles away.

Also I don’t think I ever got a receipt for a card I purchased at a show or store.
What if the card shows up? The owner says I paid you for it. I can sell a high priced card at a show then report it stolen. Right?


I mean if I seen one of theses mantles at a show tomorrow I might think HEY that’s the missing Mantle!! Or is it? Should I call the police on the spot and say I think that card could be stolen?


Sorry to be devils adovcate but if it’s cracked out it’s more likely gone. The best move would have been to crack it at the show and sell across the floor and leave.

all of them are not the card he lost, he posted a pretty high resolution scan earlier in page 1, pretty easy to tell if it's the same card

orly57 08-08-2018 06:45 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rookiemonster (Post 1802005)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/123297285540?ul_noapp=true

https://www.ebay.com/itm/142893266010?ul_noapp=true

https://www.ebay.com/itm/401576626688?ul_noapp=true

https://www.ebay.com/itm/202393187553?ul_noapp=true

Here is a sampling of 1951 Bowman Mantle that are currently available on eBay. The centering is the same. Almost any of theses card could be the missing Mantle. (Not saying they are) a that SGC is pretty nice. You can see that this card will be hard to find IMO. All the Mantles cards are in the grade range. They have pretty much the same centering.

Who ever has the card is more likely not from the area it was taken from. They could be hundreds or thousands of miles away.

Also I don’t think I ever got a receipt for a card I purchased at a show or store.
What if the card shows up? The owner says I paid you for it. I can sell a high priced card at a show then report it stolen. Right?


I mean if I seen one of theses mantles at a show tomorrow I might think HEY that’s the missing Mantle!! Or is it? Should I call the police on the spot and say I think that card could be stolen?


Sorry to be devils adovcate but if it’s cracked out it’s more likely gone. The best move would have been to crack it at the show and sell across the floor and leave.

You found some cards with similar centering, but couple the centering with these dozens of dots, and I doubt you will find another exactly like it. I don’t know why I’m only able to post small crappy pics anymore!!!

pokerplyr80 08-08-2018 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dio (Post 1802009)
all of them are not the card he lost, he posted a pretty high resolution scan earlier in page 1, pretty easy to tell if it's the same card

Flaws like those dots are less noticable in person than a zoomed in scan. And the centering is pretty typical for 51 Mantles. I'm not so sure it would be as easy to identify down the road as some of you think.

Rookiemonster 08-08-2018 07:13 PM

I know I seen the dots and I’m not saying any of these cards are the missing Mantle. So if someone wants to keep it all they have to do is ding a corner or let it sit in direct sun. The centering is very common. These little differences are not staying in anyone’s head when they are walking a show. Unless your walking around with a high resolution photo of the card you can mistake any of these for the missing Mantle.

Peter_Spaeth 08-08-2018 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80 (Post 1802018)
Flaws like those dots are less noticable in person than a zoomed in scan. And the centering is pretty typical for 51 Mantles. I'm not so sure it would be as easy to identify down the road as some of you think.

I agree with that, plus how many people who might be offered the card are even going to be aware of the theft?

orly57 08-08-2018 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80 (Post 1802018)
Flaws like those dots are less noticable in person than a zoomed in scan. And the centering is pretty typical for 51 Mantles. I'm not so sure it would be as easy to identify down the road as some of you think.

Could be, but I’m pretty sure the OP said it was a picture taken an hour before the theft, not some high resolution scan. I do fear that you guys may be right on this. The odds are against finding it, but hopefully someone will spot it.

toledo_mudhen 08-09-2018 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shagrotn77 (Post 1801381)
Sorry to hear this happened. I hope the story has a good ending. Off topic, but what is the purple label all about?


I think the Purple Label doubles the value (at least)..........

NotVader 08-09-2018 09:19 AM

Earl Johnson
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lowpopper (Post 1801007)
1951 Bowman Mickey Mantle PSA 4

Cert# 41944340

Any info as to whereabouts are appreciated.

If this pops up anywhere, contact me immediately. Thanks.

Greg,

Heard about this missing card and Joined this Forum today specifically to find you.
We met briefly at National when you were viewing my Step-Uncle's RED HEART set and you two were talking about doing the "Purple Sticker" on his Mantle 4.5 VG-EX+. Not sure if you remember me? I am the girl who said 'I cant believe you guys are collecting Dog Food Labels LOL!' I had Florida Gators hat.

I saw you at ice cream stand late on last day of show don't think you saw me you were in an intense conversation with your partner and Earl Johnson the gentleman who was let-go by SGC. Is this related? The three of you were obsessing about a card (the mantle?) you were viewing an image of on a phone not sure if this was before or after card vanished? It probably already was gone at that time and yall were discussing situation if not thought this tidbit might help to solve. Call or message me if I can do anything you have my Uncle's Number he said to say he feels awful about this story.

From Sunny Florida,

C. Vader

NotVader 08-09-2018 09:21 AM

Earl Johnson
 
Greg,

Heard about this missing card and Joined this Forum today specifically to find you.
We met briefly at National when you were viewing my Step-Uncle's RED HEART set and you two were talking about doing the "Purple Sticker" on his Mantle 4.5 VG-EX+. Not sure if you remember me? I am the girl who said 'I cant believe you guys are collecting Dog Food Labels LOL!' I had Florida Gators hat.

I saw you at ice cream stand late on last day of show don't think you saw me you were in an intense conversation with your partner and Earl Johnson the gentleman who was let-go by SGC. Is this related? The three of you were obsessing about a card (the mantle?) you were viewing an image of on a phone not sure if this was before or after card vanished? It probably already was gone at that time and yall were discussing situation if not thought this tidbit might help to solve. Call or message me if I can do anything you have my Uncle's Number he said to say he feels awful about this story.

From Sunny Florida,

C. Vader

lowpopper 08-09-2018 04:23 PM

Stolen mantle
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NotVader (Post 1802163)
Greg,

Heard about this missing card and Joined this Forum today specifically to find you.
We met briefly at National when you were viewing my Step-Uncle's RED HEART set and you two were talking about doing the "Purple Sticker" on his Mantle 4.5 VG-EX+. Not sure if you remember me? I am the girl who said 'I cant believe you guys are collecting Dog Food Labels LOL!' I had Florida Gators hat.

I saw you at ice cream stand late on last day of show don't think you saw me you were in an intense conversation with your partner and Earl Johnson the gentleman who was let-go by SGC. Is this related? The three of you were obsessing about a card (the mantle?) you were viewing an image of on a phone not sure if this was before or after card vanished? It probably already was gone at that time and yall were discussing situation if not thought this tidbit might help to solve. Call or message me if I can do anything you have my Uncle's Number he said to say he feels awful about this story.

From Sunny Florida,

C. Vader



Yes, that pretty much sums up the situation. There were 3 people who last saw/touched the card, including myself. The card “vanished” moments afterward.

It’s a dirty game, people. Beware of those who are supposedly trusted.

LarryLegend33 08-10-2018 08:48 AM

Wow so sorry this has happened can’t believe it! What’s the next step in recovery of the card?

NotVader 08-10-2018 09:13 AM

Greg?
 
Larry Legend asks a great question

Greg?

A2000 08-10-2018 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samosa4u (Post 1801022)
How the hell did that happen? :eek:

I was wondering the same thing.

I understand this is a very sensitive subject with the card not being recovered yet, but was this left in a showcase that was not locked and someone reached over and took it?

I would imagine a card of this caliber is handed directly to a perspective buyer for examination and then handed back to the dealer right away.

Sorry for your loss.

timzcardz 08-10-2018 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowpopper (Post 1802271)

It’s a dirty game, people. Beware of those who are supposedly trusted.


:eek:



I sincerely hope that it wasn't someone that you trusted. Having myself lost something of value and sentiment to someone trusted, the violation of trust is worse than the physical loss.

rjackson44 08-10-2018 09:30 AM

hope it works out ,,,good luck

Johnny630 08-10-2018 09:35 AM

The amount of slime balls who frequent these shows is despicable. I hope and pray your card shows up soon bud.

1952boyntoncollector 08-10-2018 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotVader (Post 1802457)
Larry Legend asks a great question

Greg?

What can he really do....maybe video? All he can do basically has been done and has been advised on this thread of what else to do.....im sure he is open to suggestions for anything else not obvious (ie. go to police)

Babe3Ruth3 08-10-2018 02:50 PM

It's too bad top card graders like PSA and SGC don't insert an anti-theft tag like they use at stores or a GPS chip, especially on higher value graded cards. The tag could be activated while at a card show, so if the card goes beyond a predetermined radius a very loud siren would go off and maybe set it up with the show that cameras would focus on this area, maybe restrict people from exiting till the card is found too. With the new technology, it should be possible for the owner to enable a GPS tracking system or at least a tag in the cardholder if the high-value card is stolen.

I called both PSA and SGC and brought up the idea, with SGC giving me an E-mail address to pass on this to someone higher up.

Fred 08-10-2018 04:38 PM

Mark, interesting idea.... cost would be pretty substantial, would have to set up circuits at any show that offered that service....

If you've seen the movie "Get Out" then you'll know this scene. If you haven't, then you can skip to about 2:03 of the video.... the lady cop is the person that gave the forwarding email address....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lH0jBS408eo


Just having a little fun Mark....don't be mad...

Babe3Ruth3 08-10-2018 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fred (Post 1802575)
Mark, interesting idea.... cost would be pretty substantial, would have to set up circuits at any show that offered that service....

If you've seen the movie "Get Out" then you'll know this scene. If you haven't, then you can skip to about 2:03 of the video.... the lady cop is the person that gave the forwarding email address....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lH0jBS408eo


Just having a little fun Mark....don't be mad...

I only get mad when I'm called later for dinner Fred. I guess my thinking stems from the library stopping people from walking out with a $2 book, but we can't find a way to detect when a $1000+ card walks away.

Have a good weekend Fred... :)

egbeachley 08-10-2018 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babe3Ruth3 (Post 1802581)
I only get mad when I'm called later for dinner Fred. I guess my thinking stems from the library stopping people from walking out with a $2 book, but we can't find a way to detect when a $1000+ card walks away. :)

Ha! Brings back memories. In high school we used to pull out the book sensors and put them in our friend’s coat pockets. They would set off the alarm and get detained.

CurtisFlood 08-12-2018 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowpopper (Post 1802271)
Yes, that pretty much sums up the situation. There were 3 people who last saw/touched the card, including myself. The card “vanished” moments afterward.

It’s a dirty game, people. Beware of those who are supposedly trusted.


I've had guys hold out a card and ask if I want to buy it. When I reach for the card it becomes a tug of war. At that point I don't feel we have developed the necessary rapport it takes to complete the transaction. You can never be too careful I suppose.

icollectDCsports 08-12-2018 03:32 PM

For high-dollar theft targets like this, perhaps the slabs could be placed temporarily in larger and perhaps brightly-colored acrylic cases -- say 8 x 10 -- that would be much more difficult to slip into a pocket or bag. This theft-deterring case would have the card slab inset with overlap around the edges of the slab, so it couldn't easily be popped out without use of a tool to unscrew the case, but it would not cover or obscure the front or back of the slab. Perhaps such a thing already exits, I don't know.

Republicaninmass 08-12-2018 03:38 PM

You build a better mouse trap, they build a better mouse. It's almost impossible to mitigate loss to theft to 0%. Firmer punishments for thieves might help!

rdwyer 08-12-2018 05:02 PM

A friend of mine had $8000 in gold coins stolen from her. The idiot returned to the scene of the crime the next week. He was arrested and brought to jail. Bailed out and 2 weeks later pled guilty to get credit time served. He got to keep the coins. No restitution!

swarmee 08-12-2018 06:32 PM

Yuck, but reminds me of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1cKM-_CKno

No luck lowpopper?

Buythatcard 08-13-2018 08:17 AM

Suppose that a member of this forum happened to pick up a 51 Mantle PSA 4 from a seller that they did not know and it turned out to be the exact card that went missing. You then tried to contact the seller to tell him that it was stolen but you were not able to find this seller anymore. What would you do?
Would you contact the OP and return the card to him and take a big hit financially?
Would you reslab it and say nothing?
Are you obligated to return this card or are you now the owner?

pokerplyr80 08-13-2018 08:29 AM

If you received stolen property, even without prior knowledge, you are legally and morally obligated to contact the seller. Well I believe you are legally any way. It is was really an honest mistake I feel the right thing to do would be to split the cost with the guy who had the card stolen and hope to recoup the rest of the funds if you can track down the thief.

packs 08-13-2018 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babe3Ruth3 (Post 1802551)
It's too bad top card graders like PSA and SGC don't insert an anti-theft tag like they use at stores or a GPS chip, especially on higher value graded cards. The tag could be activated while at a card show, so if the card goes beyond a predetermined radius a very loud siren would go off and maybe set it up with the show that cameras would focus on this area, maybe restrict people from exiting till the card is found too. With the new technology, it should be possible for the owner to enable a GPS tracking system or at least a tag in the cardholder if the high-value card is stolen.

I called both PSA and SGC and brought up the idea, with SGC giving me an E-mail address to pass on this to someone higher up.


Sorry but this would be a HUGE invasion of privacy. I don't want someone at SGC knowing where my cards are located at all times. In fact, I would think that would invite more theft than it would deter, as I'm sure TPG's wouldn't invest in the necessary technology to protect a network that would contain the locations of millions of dollars in cards.

Republicaninmass 08-13-2018 08:46 AM

I believe the cops just take it, and the buyer is SOL unless he can sue the seller. Meeting halfway would be on the person who had the card stolen. Otherwise, he or could just have it back.

Marchillo 08-13-2018 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80 (Post 1803349)
If you received stolen property, even without prior knowledge, you are legally and morally obligated to contact the seller. Well I believe you are legally any way. It is was really an honest mistake I feel the right thing to do would be to split the cost with the guy who had the card stolen and hope to recoup the rest of the funds if you can track down the thief.

It's easy to say split the cost but how about this scenario (Not saying this happened with the OP).

How about if someone owns some high end baseball cards and they are extremely careless with them and some of them get stolen. Then someone goes and buys one of these cards which could be 3 years worth of their card budget (Let's say its $30K). They have no knowledge of this card being stolen and now because of a careless seller they have to share the burden of cost.

Maybe legally this is what is supposed to happen but I don't think its fair and just that this unsuspecting buyer should be on the hook for any of this either.

Is there any insurance out there that covers dealers at shows? I know there are a couple of companies out there that do insurance but I would imagine someone offers insurance to people who sell items at shows/conventions etc.

I feel terrible for the OP and I hope he gets his card back. In no way am I implying he was careless, but I am throwing out a scenario that isn't black and white.

Rich Klein 08-13-2018 10:31 AM

Is there any insurance out there that covers dealers at shows? I know there are a couple of companies out there that do insurance but I would imagine someone offers insurance to people who sell items at shows/conventions etc

Yes those collectible insurance places also have insurance for vendors who go to shows. The rates are higher than they are for collectors

Rich

pokerplyr80 08-13-2018 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marchillo (Post 1803376)
It's easy to say split the cost but how about this scenario (Not saying this happened with the OP).

How about if someone owns some high end baseball cards and they are extremely careless with them and some of them get stolen. Then someone goes and buys one of these cards which could be 3 years worth of their card budget (Let's say its $30K). They have no knowledge of this card being stolen and now because of a careless seller they have to share the burden of cost.

Maybe legally this is what is supposed to happen but I don't think its fair and just that this unsuspecting buyer should be on the hook for any of this either.

Is there any insurance out there that covers dealers at shows? I know there are a couple of companies out there that do insurance but I would imagine someone offers insurance to people who sell items at shows/conventions etc.

I feel terrible for the OP and I hope he gets his card back. In no way am I implying he was careless, but I am throwing out a scenario that isn't black and white.

Careless or not if something is stolen from you and later identified you have a right to get it back regardless of who owns it now or how it was obtained. I see your point, but it would actually be the guy who the card was stolen from doing the current owner the favor by splitting the cost. All things considered I personally feel that would be the most fair solution in such a situation.

If I had bought this card not knowing it was stolen I would contact the seller and try to work out some kind of arrangement. I would not want to deal with any legal repercussions or damage to by hobby reputation but trying to keep a stolen card or an attempt to get it into a new holder for resale.

vintagetoppsguy 08-13-2018 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marchillo (Post 1803376)
It's easy to say split the cost but how about this scenario (Not saying this happened with the OP).

How about if someone owns some high end baseball cards and they are extremely careless with them and some of them get stolen. Then someone goes and buys one of these cards which could be 3 years worth of their card budget (Let's say its $30K). They have no knowledge of this card being stolen and now because of a careless seller they have to share the burden of cost.

Maybe legally this is what is supposed to happen but I don't think its fair and just that this unsuspecting buyer should be on the hook for any of this either.

Is there any insurance out there that covers dealers at shows? I know there are a couple of companies out there that do insurance but I would imagine someone offers insurance to people who sell items at shows/conventions etc.

I feel terrible for the OP and I hope he gets his card back. In no way am I implying he was careless, but I am throwing out a scenario that isn't black and white.

Agreed. There's a lot of scenario's, here's another. Let's say you have an unscrupulous seller (geez, that never happens :rolleyes:) and he reports a card stolen, but he made up the story for insurance purposes. That card is later traded/sold via private transaction by the seller who reported it stolen and then the card is sold a time or two even after that. Then the original seller who reported the card stolen finds out who currently owns it and says, "Wait a minute. That was my card. I reported it stolen. Here's the police report." And if I may borrow from part of your scenario, let's say the buyer saved 3 years of his card budget ($30K), why should he be out of $30K because of some fraudulent seller? I'm sorry, but just because someone reports something stolen DOES NOT make it theirs once the item turns up. You're right, it's not always that black and white.

I, too, am not implying that anything like that happened in this case, but there are too many scenarios to say just because someone reports something stolen and it later turns up that it should be returned to the one that reported it stolen.

rdwyer 08-13-2018 10:41 AM

Quote:

It's too bad top card graders like PSA and SGC don't insert an anti-theft tag like they use at stores or a GPS chip, especially on higher value graded cards. The tag could be activated while at a card show, so if the card goes beyond a predetermined radius a very loud siren would go off and maybe set it up with the show that cameras would focus on this area, maybe restrict people from exiting till the card is found too. With the new technology, it should be possible for the owner to enable a GPS tracking system or at least a tag in the cardholder if the high-value card is stolen.
I like this idea. Once activated, you would be able to go to findmycard.com. (Just like Apple does with their iphones.) No one complains about that. But only when activated. You could also erase the card. :)

Rookiemonster 08-13-2018 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy (Post 1803382)
Agreed. There's a lot of scenario's, here's another. Let's say you have an unscrupulous seller (geez, that never happens :rolleyes:) and he reports a card stolen, but he made up the story for insurance purposes. That card is later traded/sold via private transaction by the seller who reported it stolen and then the card is sold a time or two even after that. Then the original seller who reported the card stolen finds out who currently owns it and says, "Wait a minute. That was my card. I reported it stolen. Here's the police report." And if I may borrow from part of your scenario, let's say the buyer saved 3 years of his card budget ($30K), why should he be out of $30K because of some fraudulent seller? I'm sorry, but just because someone reports something stolen DOES NOT make it theirs once the item turns up. You're right, it's not always that black and white.

I, too, am not implying that anything like that happened in this case, but there are too many scenarios to say just because someone reports something stolen and it later turns it that it should be returned to the one that reported it stolen.


This is one of the points I was making earlier. I never got a receipt from a card show or shop from a card I purchased. I could go sell some good cards then walk out of the show and call the cops saying my card have been stolen.


Jesse did you just say moral obligation? Thought you weren’t in to that kind of stuff. Why should someone who got anything stolen from them pay for it back?

pokerplyr80 08-13-2018 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rookiemonster (Post 1803391)
This is one of the points I was making earlier. I never got a receipt from a card show or shop from a card I purchased. I could go sell some good cards then walk out of the show and call the cops saying my card have been stolen.


Jesse did you just say moral obligation? Thought you weren’t in to that kind of stuff. Why should someone who got anything stolen from them pay for it back?

That's funny because after reading some of your posts I question your sense of morality as well. Since in the previously discussed situation there would now be two innocent victims I dont think it's right that either should have to eat 100% of the loss. A lot would depend on the specifics and what could be proven. But if I had a card stolen from me and someone reached out to me to say they bought it down the road for cash and didn't remember from who, I would be willing to work something out to get the card back.

Rookiemonster 08-13-2018 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80 (Post 1803400)
That's funny because after reading some of your posts I question your sense of morality as well. Since in the previously discussed situation there would now be two innocent victims I dont think it's right that either should have to eat 100% of the loss. A lot would depend on the specifics and what could be proven. But if I had a card stolen from me and someone reached out to me to say they bought it down the road for cash and didn't remember from who, I would be willing to work something out to get the card back.

I don’t see why you would question my morality. But I see what your saying like a my dog went missing reward. Not a bad idea but at the same time if I found someone’s dog I probably just give it back and say keep the reward money.

pokerplyr80 08-13-2018 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rookiemonster (Post 1803401)
I don’t see why you would question my morality. But I see what your saying like a my dog went missing reward. Not a bad idea but at the same time if I found someone’s dog I probably just give it back and say keep the reward money.

And I dont see why you would question mine. I found dog is quite different than a purchased 5 or 10 grand Mantle RC.

rainier2004 08-13-2018 12:08 PM

So my understanding on this...

If you have property that was reported stolen, you cannot convey good title on that item. I believe the law dictates you go back to the person you bought the card from and get your money back, then they go to who they bought it from and get their money back and down the line. Even if the insurance has paid on a claim the property in still good as it belongs to the insurance company now.

There are several ways to handle it though very dependent on the specific circumstances.

That sucks to have your card stolen though...

drcy 08-13-2018 12:51 PM

Yes, with a stolen item, the item goes straight to the rightful owner (presumably the person that the item was stolen from), but you get the $$ refund from the person you bought it from. That's why they tell you to keep the receipt.

That's also why, despite criticism from the chatboard rabble (:) ), auction houses are using sound legal judgment when they don't give refunds to a person who is not the direct buyer. If you think about it, giving a refund to a person who was not only wasn't the buyer but who you may have never met before is goofy. If they give the refund to anyone down the buying food chain, multiple people may be asking for full refunds on one item.

I remember on this board when someone wanted refund from the original auction house. Not only wasn't he the original buyer from the auction house, but he insisted the auction house pay what he paid for it years later and not what the auction house originally sold it for. He got angry when I said that that's not the way things work nor should work.

Along the lines of the above paragraph, I also find it amusing when collectors years after the fact assign rules and conditions to LOAs or auction house rules that appear nowhere on the LOA. "The LOA says one-year money back guarantee, but I think the should be lifetime triple money back guarantee. Everyone with me?" While he's at it, he might as include "Plus a new car and a date with Charlize Theron." And let me take a wild guess: he'd be pissed if the auction house retroactively changed the terms of the letter in their favor ("No, no, you've got it wrong. I've clearly just written in the margin that YOU owe ME a new car and date with Charlize Theron. No, just a second here, where's my pen?: 'Two cars.' No, wait, 'Plus you have to wear really ugly clothes for a year and tell people that your name is Butt.' Sorry, there's no more blank space on the letter to write on, so I win!")

PowderedH2O 08-13-2018 03:47 PM

If you really wanted to keep track of a card, you could have some sort of portable security system like stores do. Put a sticker on your graded slab and if you don't deactivate it, it goes off as soon as it leaves your area and sounds an alarm. Yes, stickers can be removed, but if it takes someone 3 minutes to take off a sticker within 10 feet of you, it is less likely they will spend the time doing so.

Republicaninmass 08-13-2018 04:34 PM

1 Attachment(s)
On side note, this Clemente was stolen from my home by a family friend. I've searched and searched but it has never come back up for sale. Bet yo azz I'll be contacting the auction house if it came up, and my receipt is my invoice from heritage

https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball-c...-7/a/714-81237



https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball-c.../a/714-81237.s

irv 08-13-2018 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass (Post 1803474)
On side note, this Clemente was stolen from my home by a family friend. I've searched and searched but it has never come back up for sale. Bet yo azz I'll be contacting the auction house if it came up, and my receipt is my invoice from heritage

https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball-c...-7/a/714-81237



https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball-c.../a/714-81237.s

Wow. 2 cards stolen by someone the owners knew. I hate reading about these thefts, but it is really more shocking/upsetting when you read about them being stolen by people the owners likely knew and trusted.

I recently went through something similar where I misplaced some hockey cards of mine, including my Tavares RC and a few other cards I collected when I was just a boy.

I searched and searched but bit my tongue mentioning anything to my son who I assumed was one of his friends while we were away at our trailer.

Thankfully I didn't as I have a feeling this would of upset my son greatly thinking I didn't trust his friends.

I had a similar story when I was quite young regarding my sisters watch. A friend took a shine to her unique watch. It went missing for days after but I actually accused him of stealing it as he was the last person I seen holding and admiring it.

Long story short, it was found under a couch in our rec room about a week or so later. :o

The guy I accused of stealing it is now the Chief of Police in my hometown.

Of course I apologized profusely but our friendship was never the same afterward, sadly.

NotVader 08-19-2018 03:30 PM

earl john son
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lowpopper (Post 1801007)
1951 Bowman Mickey Mantle PSA 4

Cert# 41944340

Any info as to whereabouts are appreciated.

If this pops up anywhere, contact me immediately. Thanks.


As we all now know, Mr Earl John Son of Cleveland has this Stolen Mantle.

JustinD 08-19-2018 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotVader (Post 1805442)
As we all now know, Mr Earl John Son of Cleveland has this Stolen Mantle.

Is this real?


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:58 PM.