PWCC-PQ (premium quality)
 

I guess HE has been supplanted by the next generation of hype. Purple sticker eat your heart out.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/1910-E93-St...oAAOSw4RZbEbk9

Anyone see a contradiction between all the blah blah blah about premium quality and this statement on the same page?

We at PWCC are not professional graders so we trust in the reputation and opinion of 3rd party professional graders.

Wow! Prices are really really going to go up now!

Maybe that will be PWCC's next thing, to suggest how high we should bid.

I want to see a slabbed card covered with stickers— from PWCC, a few AHs, a few past owners, etc. That's the next step.

Wow. That is funny. "We are not graders and trust the TPGs. Here is our grading system of TPG-graded cards."

Reminds of the Chapelle Rick James skit: I wouldn't put my feet up on someone's couch... Yeah, I remember putting my feet on the couch.

Over/under on when they start slabbing/grading cards, with the caveat that they are not graders? ;)

Yeah. We don't have the qualifications to grade, but we can sure go on and on about our qualifications to tell you about premium quality. Uh, OK.

I can't imagine there will be any politics or favoritism that goes into the PQ designation.

IMO PWCC does a great job selling cards. I wish they would stick to that and not this kind of unnecessary hype or the PWCC 100 index or who knows what's next.

Wait, Pete: they are grading the “eye appeal”— not the card, LOL.

Is there a PWCC app yet? One that shows you only PWCC cards?

I’m confused...
 

I thought they stickered cards with “high end” when eye appeal far exceeds the technical grade. What is this “premium quality”? Are they doing away with the term “high end”? Or are they different? Can a card get both stickers? What the hell is going on...

HE lives!! PQ must be one step up from HE?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1912-T202-H...wAAOSwQz1bEbcR

Good grief.

One is "superior" one is "exceptional." Well damn.

"This is getting too silly."-- Monty Python

Won’t be long, the majority of eBay listings will have “premium quality” in the title, and that term will get worn out and annoy the hell out of me like “high end” does.

From the descriptions of the two linked auctions high end is top 5% of examples, and the new premium quality is top 15% of examples of that card in the same grade.

https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/eye-appeal

PQ is one tier below HE

But could the two be combined together forming : High End Premium Quality?

This could be the top 5% of the 5% of the 15% of examples of the card within the same grade.

This is such b.s., how can you know something is the top 20% or 15%, etc. of a certain population unless you have the entire population in front of you at one time to evaluate.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.......we can make this happen!

Dont give them any ideas!

I think I'm going to try and cash in on this idea too. I'm going to have my own high-end sticker/certification. I think I will use a yellow label.

It's going to be called Super High-end Illustrious Top Tier Yellow or SHITTY for short. Before you know it, everyone will want a SHITTY sticker on their card. I'll be rich!

http://www.net54baseball.com/attachm...1&d=1527943661


https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...D977&FORM=VIRE

The app could alert you when a card has hit 80 percent of its expected final value -- which in many cases would be within a few hours of listing.

They need to give little stars or certificates for making certain bids on their items. That would certainly stimulate bidding even further, from those who need extra third-party validation and a pat on the head... Maybe a little dunce cap logo or something.

That said, a system that in effect overrides PSA grades certainly has some philosophical validity; PSA grades are pretty tragic and too often don't reflect eye appeal whatsoever. It seems every time I search for cards, I find cards in PSA X grade that are thrown beatings by cards a full grade lower.

The dumpster fire is due in part to PSA's changing standards over time. We have cards in slabs from many years ago that look horrid, and much better looking cards graded today can't get the same grade.

End result is more onus on the end buyer/collector to issue the final and most important grade with our wallets.

Barry (hi Barry) and I were talking about this very subject recently. Hobbyist's are becoming more savvy. Just because a TPG says a card is a technical grade doesn't mean it is the best quality or has the best eye appeal, only that it meets the technical criteria for that grade. I almost never buy higher graded cards because I can almost always find a better looking one in a lower grade (cheaper to buy) holder. The registry might actually help us other collectors in that respect. Because those collectors need the point higher more than great looking cards.

As to the subject of another sticker? It's not a big deal to me. It is no more than another point of view on condition where I am the final arbiter for my collection, not anyone else.

Totally agree. The Registry motto seems to be, "Buy The Holder, Not The Card."

But what happens when PWCC starts its own registry?

I have yet to see anyone say a card sucks for the grade.

No point trying to bring reason or logic to bear on this. This is marketing hype pure and simple and bs is the currency of marketing.

Oh, I say it a ton, when I browse almost every auction, ;)

Wonderful. The more registry du jour collectors the better. Then I can buy my cards cheaper!!

I remember seeing it once. On that green cobb that was a PSA 4 or 5 with paper loss on the back. I think the way it was described was the paper loss seems inconsistent with the assigned grade. It was in a big auction, heritage or rea.

Well done. Maybe that's next, selling advertising space on slabs.

"Exceptionaly eye appeal for the issue, rating a 3/3 on our scale"

OK so spelling and grammar aside (really it makes your company look pretty dumb but whatever) how about a definition of "our scale" so we know what the hell "3/3" means. Oh wait, it's meaningless.

So does a 4 on a scale of 3 get a high end?

I've listed cards on ebay that say it looks worse than the assigned grade.

You are certainly exceptionaly then.

lol

What about when PSA teams up with PWCC to give extra points on the registry for HE and PQ cards? Won't that be special?

"This sticker is dangerous and inconvenient, but I do love Fig Newtons" -- Ricky Bobby

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bvi9zpHlrvg

The same way an athlete can give 110%

ok, ty

Here's some additional simple math that further says this system is B.S.

If average as defined by pwcc's own website is 50% of the population, shouldn't below average and above average each be 25% of the remaining population (basic normal population curve)? You can further breakdown either or both of those population areas into as many pieces as you want, ie. above average, exceptional, high end, etc. but they should sum to 25% each. PWCC has somehow found it possible and proper to invalidate the immutable tennents of math/statistics by having below average contain only 20% of the population and the entire area deemed higher than average comprise 30% of the population.

HE is for the technical grade. PQ is for the eye-appeal. The hobby needs this.

No...they both refer to eye appeal

As a consignor, I’m glad to see them do everything possible to maximize sales. As a buyer, I don’t care how they label anything (or how a grader grades anything).

I posted this in a thread when I first joined Net54 (and seen it discussed in other threads as well) but I'll say it again. It absolutely blows my mind that multi-million dollar companies make these assessments without any, or maybe a minimum of, 21st century technology. We all know even a 1 pt change in a TPGs grading of a card can have huge ramifications in that cards value. Just looking on eBay today, a 1987 Donruss Greg Maddux RC SGC 98 is about a $80 card - SGC 100 is a $600-800 card. And that's a modern rookie - we saw the same thing at HA with the PSA 8.5 and 9 Mantle 52 Topps cards. I know everyone who saw the 9 raves about the card and from the scans, I agree, but that's something like a $1.6 million change over 1/2 point grade. Not even getting into the discussion of TPG changing standards over time.

My background is in engineering and I've seen quality related equipment that can measure down to the 1/100 th of a mm. It's impossible to believe that there is not scanning software available that could grade a card electronically (corners, centering, etc). You could also have permanent storage of the scan for any future needs. Maybe things like focus, clarity would still be subjective but the technology is out there to make something this important and $ related as objective and scientific as possible.

I may be misinformed about how cards are currently graded by the TPGs and I hope I am, but no matter how experienced or trained a grader may or may not be, grading solely by visual inspection should have been abandoned in the last century.

Rant over...Carry on :D

As far as I can tell this is just a gimmick for PWCC to pimp PSA 3s and 4s and try to convince people they are worth more than they are worth. Good eye appeal in the real estate business usually means nice looking house but it’s located right behind the train tracks.

I definitely agree with their "point" and why they do this. But at the same time, leave some work and responsibility to the eye of the beholder.

You know it's just a matter of time before slabs start getting slabbed, with each grade getting it's own 10 point system.... essentially ending up like coins. "This PSA 4 rates an 8 out of 10 within the 4 grade". It really is turning into a Monty Python skit.

Yes. This.

Being a clemente collector- I just came across a new "premium quality" listing. A 1958 Topps Clemente SGC 7.5 - the card certainly is well centered with sharp corners - but is significantly out of focus- enough to bother my personal "eye appeal" test - thus the 7.5 from SGC and probably a lower grade from PSA ...

.

A new pickup and My new sticker on my cards...If you get one of these, well.."fuhgetaboutit" on upgrading. These really speak to you.....you get the idea.

Maybe the purple sticker guy needs to upgrade HIS game...and have a gold sticker that is EVEN BETTER than the purple sticker!! We can have sticker upon sticker!

The continued snowflaking of America. How soon until people demand that every single card in every single slab MUST get a purple sticker??

Grading the slabs?
 

I'm waiting for PWCC to start grading the slabs themselves. "This card is a PSA 5, but the slab is in Mint condition!!!"

PQ? HE? but but the card is a PSA 4!!! Maybe someone can come up with a BS sticker?

Yes... eBay

Well done.

PWCC is just trying to do what any other company tries to do in a bull market: try and take advantage of the situation by adding a couple of levels of hype to the listings. There are so many new collectors out there that they flock to the flame like moths willingly overpaying for cards that most experienced collectors will just watch go by. During the last recession you could fill up a box truck with graded cards, now we're on the other side. Patience and selective buying rules the day.

Jim

Pwcc
 

Exactly....A complete marketing joke!

Registry
 

Matty, the Population Reports merely serve as a “guide” to give the collector some understanding of a card’s overall rarity as well as its “rarity for the grade”. Two separate collecting views. Regarding “special” eye appeal stickers/notations, it will ultimately NEVER be necessary because a collector will use their OWN optics to truly determine a card’s premium value. More and more, this hobby has moved towards “buying the card”, NOT the grade. We are already there, and don’t require additional marketing schemes as the main driver for our decision making process.

Between their self serving market analysis and new marketing gimmick, definitely more than a whiff of desperation coming from PWCC. Seems like someone is on to the fact that the party is winding down.

I agree in terms of PWCCs goal, yet wouldn't be so quick to throw all 3s and 4s under the bus with such a sweeping generalization. I am no fan of PWCC's new "eye appeal system," yet eye appeal does matter a great deal in the card world, and routinely has a major impact on price.

Totally agree that eye appeal does matter a great deal. I just don't need PWCC's opinion in that regard, which is obviously totally subjective.

Not to mention, does anyone think they make these decisions wholly independent of the identity of the consignor?

Good point Peter, the consignor probably weighs heavily on who gets the gold star and who doesn't.

Yes, I understand that you guys trust your own eyes, but when you're buying things off the internet, you can't always see everything on the card. Slight creases are notoriously difficult to notice even in good scans. For example, can you tell me where the crease is in the card below? (hint, it's not the corners) The stickers give assurance to me that there isn't anything really "hidden" by the scans. I think it's a good idea, and I would feel much more confident bidding strongly on a card that has something like this. I also trust PWCC, so when they put their sticker of approval on a card, I do see it as adding value.

https://i.imgur.com/WdYxHf6.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/VwUHsJb.jpg

I think the crease is on the right border running down thru the 's' in athletics....although my eyes are failing me as I get older.

bensie

41 posts

no name

fan of pwcc

Nope...

So because I'm new and didn't fill out my profile, I'm not allowed to have an opinion? Look, it's a simple fact. PWCC putting their HE designator on a card does increase its value. This means that the marketplace (IE people like me) do see a value and do pay for it. Period, end of discussion. I see the PQ designation as adding similar value. It helps to assure me that the card is free from stuff that doesn't show up in a scan.

And yes, I like PWCC. Their scans are always good/consistent, and very representative of the card you receive. I've bought from them and sold through them, and will continue to do so. For selling cards over $200, it's a no brainer. The fees they charge are the same as I'd pay ebay, and if I send to them, I don't have to do any of the work and don't have to deal with the buyers.

Where does it say anything about "the stickers giving assurances that there isn't anything hidden by the scans"? Is there some reason to believe a PQ or HE labeled card doesn't have any creasing? I guess I'm just not understanding what you're saying here.

PSA gives a subjective opinion as well

Well, the presumption is that if you have a stickered PSA 5 vs. a non-stickered PSA 5, the stickered version should present better overall. It's not a guarantee, obviously, but it is an indicator of a higher quality card in the stickered slab. Have you guys never bid up a mid grade card, only to be 'surprised' once you had the card in hand? Creases, card stock anomalies, surface scratches, etc can all be hidden by the scans. In my experience, PWCC cards with the stickers do not have these 'hidden' problems.

And all the anomalies you mentioned could conceivably still exist on a HE or PQ stickered card as my understanding is the sticker is based on eye appeal, not technical grade/actual condition.

This is precisely where collectors need to be careful, and brings up a subtle yet pretty important point...

PWCC's sticker is not what is increasing the value; the eye appeal of the card in question is what is increasing the card's value, relative to others in the same grade.

It is the card that is getting its due recognition from us collectors and our wallets; PWCC is merely choosing to use a sticker to hang a lantern on exceptional eye appeal, in precisely the same way that another seller will say "high end" or "great eye appeal" or "presents better than some higher grades," etc. Is it a flashier gimmick? Yes. A more effective lantern? Perhaps.

It is paramount to remember that such cards tend to do their thing on the selling block just fine, without a special sticker that merely states the obvious. I'm sure many of us paid "HE-sticker-like premiums" on many a card, long before PWCC rolled out their campaign.

If one allows PWCC's sticker to become the thing instead of the card, that is where a big risk is run. Just as with PSA's stickers— the card has to merit what the sticker says. And only our eyes can confirm or disconfirm that.

Of course this all goes to the heart of one's collecting philosophy— in terms of whether one is collecting cards, or stickers.

Party winding down? What does this even mean?

Yah they aren't professional graders, remember.

Not buying the fact it is purely subjective. Rampant speculation has always been it's dependent on who the consignor might be.


That is what the description is for, not what a sticker is for. Add something more to the generic "worthy of attention", or "difficult to improve upon".

Give me a clear and accurate scan and no marketing BS every time. I'll pass on the kool aid, thank you.

How do you like that sticker-worthy 58 Clemente?

Someone may have already covered this, but what happens if you have a HE PWCC card AND convince that dude to slap a purple sticker on it? Does the damm thing just spontaneously combust at that point?