Ty Cobb 1907 rare rookie postcards - Their origin stories told
 

Great post!

It also states they sell full sets on a single sheet. I never seen one of them before. Has an uncut sheet ever been in a major auction ?

I had an uncut sheet of the images, on postcard stock, but I cannot remember if they had postcard backs, , that found its way to a major Cobb collector about 25 years ago. It was a 3 party deal, I did not have direct contact with the collector, sorry.

I've seen uncut sheets from the 1908 set ( this is a reprint sheet on ebay ), not 1907 or 1909.

Fantastic stuff, Jim, as always.

That window display is amazing.

-Al

Jim: I see 15 postcards in the window display, seems like something is covering the lower right corner. What is it ? I wonder if their was another card that we can't see ( Cobb batting ??? ) We will only know for sure if someone produces this uncut sheet. The window display ( cobb fielding) and the offered sheet ( cobb batting) are different.

There are only 15 cards there, the bottom right spot is a white plug that probably contains written advertising. The Coughlin above it has white dirt showing which blends into the plug and gives the false impression the lower slot is covering part of the sheet.

Awesome research and a great post. Thank you for sharing it.

Jim, if the whole Judge career thing doesn't work out, you can be my private investigator any time. Awesome research. I think you confirmed the long-standing suspicion that the Fielding came first and was quickly replaced by the Batting.

Amazing research Jim!

Great info Jim. Really appreciate the post.

H.M. Taylor Ty Cobb
 

Shameless leveraging of Jim's awesome research and post, I just listed an H.M. Taylor "Tyrus Cobb at Bat" postcard, PSA 3.5, for sale in the B/S/T section. Thanks, Jim!

Thanks guys, the Floral Horseshoe completed my H.M. Taylor set and this post was my way of celebrating. For me, half of fun of this hobby is acquiring knowledge and the other half is sharing it! Oh and Kris, when can I expect that commission check?

Great information!

Here is a related item I picked up on Ebay recently - an interior shot of the "Dietsche Rememberance Shop" on Woodward Avenue in Detroit...

Orlando, it is funny how we sometimes just chance into a revelation. I was researching the LaFond version when I just happened to notice the Cobb Fielding in the corner, realized the significance of the dates, and thought this might just prove that long standing theory. Spread the news to the Cobb and Dietsche collectors out there.

Here is a team display sheet. Unfortunately, not mine.

Here are just a few notes that I have regarding the different Cobb "rookie cards." For reference, the World Series that year started on October 8 in Chicago and ended on October 12 in Detroit.

Detroit Seamless Postcard - of the six known examples, five are postmarked - three on October 4, 1907, one October 5 and one on October 7.

Wolverine Postcard - the earliest postmark from this set that I can find is October 9, 1907. Few of the postcards from this set found cancelled.

AC Dietsche - the earliest postmark from this set that I can find is October 9, 1907. Only a small percentage of postcards from this set are found cancelled.

HM Taylor Postcard - the earliest postmark from this set that I can find is October 7, 1907. Most of the postcards that I see from this set are canceled..

W600 - first offered to the public in the October 19, 1907 issue of the Sporting Life.

Now if someone has the 1909 Sheet ( if it exists) we will be able to determine if the Detroit Team Photo should or should not be part of the three year set or if it is in fact a stand alone postcard.

+1

Good info too on the postmarked dates of other early Cobb PCs Kevin. Thanks

Fantastic presentation jim!!! I was not familiar with the Lafond images those are so cool!!

Jim, fantastic work there.

Kevin, thanks for that info.

Great sleuthing, Jim. Thanks for the informative post

Kevin, thanks for the postmark information; you know where a lot of the bodies are buried in this hobby!

Here is my meager contribution

Great research, Jim. And thanks to all of the contributors in this thread. It is appreciated by all. And some day 50 yrs down the road maybe someone will Google this subject and find it here :).

.

Such a great postcard. Love the way that he has his bat in one hand and glove in the other. He is definitely ready to play ball.

@BeanTown

oh wait, this isn't Instagram.

That Detroit Seamless card is beautiful.

It is apparent that the 1907 World Series, and the many popular Tiger sets it spawned, was a seminal event for baseball postcards of the Deadball Era. If Tiger mania hadn't swept Detroit that year would many of these sets, and many of the major sets (Rose, Novelty Cutlery, Sepia etc.) that followed followed in their wake in the next few years, even been issued?

Jim, there is also a jumbo sized postcard of the floral horseshoe postcard pictured in the first post (without the extra print line). I was told that only 2 were known to exist and that one of them was in a museum in Detroit. I can post a picture later.

Thank you for posting Jim. Wonder how many things are out there from 1905 and 1906 with Cobb. Glad to see all the known owners of Seamless Tube cards posted! Now its a party!

@lotgconsignments

I'd love to see a picture of the jumbo floral horseshoe postcard!

Also, I saw that LOTG just sold a Tiger team RPPC with that pose postmarked September 8, 1907, so the team photo was from a little earlier than I thought.

JC, I'm glad to host the party, I just wish I belonged to that club!

Makes sense that the litho team postcards were produced after the real-photo one. Nice catch Jim.

JC, I'm glad to host the party, I just wish I belonged to that club![/QUOTE]

Im with you Jim. There is hope we will both have a chance to acquire one in the future. 4 cards have been discovered over the last four years making the population 6 now. Hopefully 2018 will bring yet another new one to add to the low population.

Jim,

Here is the Jumbo Floral Horseshoe postcard I mentioned earlier...


https://photos.imageevent.com/docpat...igersJumbo.jpg

They must have had huge mailboxes in 1907.

Terrific oversize floral horseshoe! What is the back story on it?

I can't see the oversized photo ! Now I see it. Great photo, thanks for posting. Love Detroit items.

LOL. That is a great PC....

If anyone can find a type one of that photo I'm all in.

Kevin, for your list here is the earliest mention of the Dietsche set I can find. It is from October 2, 1907.

Attachment 299307

Great info Jim. Out of curiosity, what newspaper is that from?

That was from the Detroit Free Press, they had one other similar ad that day as well. It seems to imply Dietsche had a Tiger window set up similar to the one LaFond's had.

Attachment 299309

These were in essence classified ads on the front page.

I can't help but to imagine Jim's Judicial clerk reviewing microfiche at the library. "Looking for Judicial Clerk who can type 70 words a minute, write complex briefs, and research rare postcards. Accepting applications."

Application sent.

Jeff, you’re hired, but I don’t know how i’m Going to break the news to Al!

+1!!! Great post, especially from the perspective of one who has both 1907 Dietsche Cobbs!

Thanks much,

Larry

I'm confused ! The ad in the Detroit Free Press states : " All the Detroit Stars in fielding positions " but the photo in the window shows many of the photos
( players ) in a batting position. Does this mean all the players with a batting pose have a variation like Cobb ( both fielding and batting ) ??

No, the Fielding/Batting dinstinction is a purely modern collecting construct. They meant the players are depicted in action.

Thanks Jim. I would never have thought fielding meant batting.

Here's the 1908 ad from November 3rd which mentions the updates to the set.
Edited to add: I found no ad whatsoever from 1909.

Attachment 299683

Scott: Great ad ! Is that from the Detroit Free Press ? It's a 20 card set but they only listed 19 players ( they omitted - Fred Payne in the ad) to make 20 .

Still looking for the 1909 issue to see if it lists the Team Photo as part of the set. Let us know if you or others find anything from that year.

That is a neat ad!!

It appears Dietsche advertised in the Detroit Free Press greatly in 1907 and very little in 1908 and not at all in 1909. I did findone ad that "may" be referring to the Dietsche set, but who knows ? Little advertising in 1909 and therefore very little product sold it appears.
Attachment is from DFP Sunday October 3, 1909.

Been some questions about the Dietsche Postcards so I bumped this one up again.

Thanks All!
 

Jim (and others),

Superb material here! Thanks so much for sharing it-

Tim

Time to update this thread with my latest find fresh from the National.

Here is what I believe to be a partial 1907 RPPC showing the first incarnation of the 15 card initial set with the Cobb Fielding pose.

Attachment 324883

The back looks like this. The other RPPC back is the one off of the well-known 1907 team pose RPPC shown below for comparison.

Attachment 324885

Attachment 324882

Here is the back of another copy of the Detroit team RPPC, listed online, showing the AZO four diamond box.

Attachment 324884

My guess is a collector bought the advertised Dietsche set when it first came out, including the Fielding Cobb, before the Batting Cobb was available. He wrote the names and positions of the players, arranged them in a group of 15 with the manager Hughie Jennings in the center and overlaid the Detroit Tigers 1907 over the Jennings postcard. He then photographed them, created the RPPC and sent it to a woman (note the "Miss" in the address portion on back). Somewhere along the way the likely blank white front excess was trimmed away.

The back of the subject postcard has the same back as the 1907 team RPPC as shown above. The AZO four diamonds stampbox was only printed from 1907-1909. The AZO four triangles from 1904-1918. My guess is 1907 as it is very unlikely he would have bothered to do this at a later date.

At the very least this is one of the earliest examples of a baseball collector at work. I have never seen another example of a photo of an early card collection. At best, I'll kiddingly suggest it is a 1 of 1 version of the 1907 Ty Cobb Fielding RPPC. Whatever it is, I'm excited to find it!

Now here is where I'd love some help. Can anyone find me one of the 15 cards depicted in the RPPC with an exact match for the handwritten name and position? Do these copies still exist, I'd love to own one or at least see it and check if it has a postmark on the back.

nice pickup...I almost snagged that!!!! it's a cool piece...even just 1/2 of its original size...a cheap way to pick up a rare cobb rookie!!!!!

Found this period postcard showing the Dietsche storefront, thought I'd share it.

Attachment 335369

Cobb Rookie PCs
 

I am very happy to be able to post again in one of my favorite threads! I just acquired the H.M. Taylor "Tyrus Cobb at Bat" postcard shown below. As Kevin stated above, his outstanding research has turned up the earliest postmark on any H.M. Taylor to be October 10, 1907. As you can see, my Cobb is postmarked October 12, 1907 at 7:30 pm in Detroit. Earlier that afternoon, the Tigers lost to the Cubs in Game 5 of the World Series by the score of 2-0, giving the Cubs the "sweep" by winning four games and tying one. Game 5 was only the second game played in Detroit in the series.

It has been generally accepted that the H.M. Taylor series was issued/sold from 1907 - 1909. The postmark clearly dates this one to 1907. But also look at the different font of "Post Card" and the H.M. Taylor notation on the bottom, which does not include the words "Rights reserved by" as most I have seen do. In fact, the only other Cobb I can find with the same back is on the tremendous vintageball.com site (it is not postally used).

There are a few different backs known for H.M. Taylor PCs, but this leads me to wonder about the correlation between the years of issue and the printing on the back. My hypothesis is that the back shown below, postmarked October 1907 here, was the first style used in the early printing of the H.M. Taylor postcards. Could it be that only ones with this back should be considered one of Cobb's "rookie" postcards? Are postcard collectors now going to collect backs like T206 collectors? :)

I would love to read your thoughts, comments, and further research!

Kris, great card. Do you have scans of any other backs of the HM Taylor Cobb? Mine is sitting at the bank and I don't think I can get there before Friday to check.

Backs
 

Thanks Jeff. Here are the Cobb backs I have found by Googling.

Kris, I do not think that the font of the wording "Post Card" on the reverse is going to help us date these cards. Here are three distinct fonts, all used in October of 1907.

Another Variation Back
 

Here's another variation back of the Taylor Postcards from 1907-09 ? Can a PC expert tell the year of this type ? The team photo was used on several postcards, in newspapers on the 1907 WS Program ( see photo) etc. The dog sometimes is looking straight and other times looking to the left)

Not sure where the 07-09 date range originates from, I believe they were ALL produced in 1907.

Terrific pickup, Kris--a hearty CONGRATS!

Sincerely,

Larry

Taylor Cobb
 

Thank you, Larry!

Jeff P., I admittedly know absolutely nothing about the printing process of the time (or anytime for that matter), but it just seems odd to me that the publisher would use different backs on the same card fronts if they were all printed at the same time. Especially during a likely very short time period during the 1907 World Series, which it seems all H.M. Taylors appeared/were used for the first time. I would think that type of change would happen in a separate production run. Which I would also guess might not happen until the next season. Why keep printing them during the off-season following the Tigers’ quick demise in the ‘07 Series?

All pure speculation!

I agree with your rationale that it is unusual if they were all printed at the same time that they would have different backs that does not make sense. I suppose it’s possible the photos were sold and then whoever bought them printed the back on there but if this were the case you might think there would be blank backs out there. Are there?? Otherwise it seems plausible they were printed a few different times possibly different years.

HM Taylor may have printed at different times during 07 but I've never seen any evidence suggesting that these were printed post 1907. The team card also has a variety of back variations, would think it would be unlikely HM Taylor was printing postcards celebrating the 07 team in 09.

Kevin's post clearly shows different backs printed in 07. You see PC back variations a lot in postcard issues.

All three of the different backs that I have pictured above were postmarked within a 7 day period in October of 1907. It seems to me that they were all made and distributed at the same time.

Never thought I'd be able to join this club, but I have... Still pinching myself. Let some of my excess/non core focus stuff go and some modern stuff go and been busy chipping away at these early Cobbs...

I think the Seamless is by far one of the coolest cards in the whole hobby and still believe I was able to get one. After getting my D381 Cobb years ago I never thought I'd be able to land another Cobb nearly as cool.

Congrats, Erick, that’s a great addition to your Cobb PC collection.

Erick,

All i can say is, "Wowsers!"

Congrats Erick, amazing pick up and a great addition to an-already amazing collection of Cobb PCs

Thanks a lot Jeff! Your collection is incredible.

And thanks to Ben! Thanks for deal on Dietsche

Congrats!

Hell of a PC

Thanks Ryan, you've been getting lots of amazing stuff, congrats to you as well, love that Rose PC.

That Tubes couldn’t have gone to a better home or a nicer guy. Congrats Erick. I hope you enjoy it for many years.

Thanks Mark,

Thanks a lot Orlando! I'm honored to own it!

Tubes
 

Congrats! Great card.