I am gonna vent
 

I hope I don't hurt feelings with this post, however with that being said, I know some will agree and the ones who don't are probably the ones I am talking about.

Ok so I want to speak about 2 things.

First....

I HATE when someone (especially someone I know is knowledgeable) asks me what I'm looking for when I say make an offer. Are you hoping I say $50 on a $1000 and you can rob me?

If I say make an offer, I simply mean make an offer.

The excuse I always get when I respond to "what are you looking for?" is I just don't wanna throw out a number too low and insult you.

Why not throw out a number that's fair?

First off, why are you trying to low ball someone in the first place who is a active member of the community?

Secondly, that's like saying "I don't wanna embarrass myself with a cheap ass offer so I rather you give me a number so I can say I'll think about it but really never contact you again".



NEXT....

This is my BIGGGGGGEST PET PEEVE!

The worst worst thing someone can say to me is.... " I know you paid X for this so would you take Y?"

What does that have to do with ANYTHING!???

If I was able to scoop up a steal on BIN for $500 on a item worth $2500, do you think just because you have that public information, I now have to sell it to you for a $150 profit?

Stop it!



I could go on and on, but I'll stop here.

Thoughts?


I feel like this is the person who I'm writing to...

https://sportscardalbum.com/c/yq30x3q5.jpg

I may or may not agree with you on your first point, depending on the circumstances. If you're offering something for sale, it's your responsibility as the seller to throw out the first number. If you've done that and the potential buyer asks, "What is your best offer?" then I can understand your point. If you throw out the first number, then he ball is in their court to counteroffer. However, if you list something without a price and you're just fishing for offers, then shame on you.

On the second point I agree with you.

Great picture !!
 

How much are you looking for on it ?
.

This was more for ebay when I price is up with best offer. I get so many "What are you looking for on it" messages and I always respond with make me a fair offer and its yours... 99% never get back to me.

Don't disagree it's annoying, but everyone is looking to make the best deal they can favoring them to the max. It's human nature.

There is a guy on ebay I've alluded to a few times who purchases items at AHs for a couple hundred bucks and often tries to sell on eBay a few days later for multiples of what he paid. I do think what he paid is a relevant point in any negotiation. If 20 people bid on something and it settles at $750, I think it's a little ridiculous to list it on eBay for $3700. But it's a free country and he can obviously try to sell it for $250,000 if he is so inclined. It annoys me but not a damm thing I can do about it.

Both people write their numbers on a piece of paper. Flip them over on the count of three, Add the numbers, Divide by 2 and there is your price...

I like to live dangerously sometimes...

it kinda sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it too! It's ok if you get a really good deal on a bin on ebay...but someone else is not entitled to get a good deal from you?

Personally...I hate the old "make me an offer!"

It's your card...you know what you paid for it...price it!

If you are selling something, I can't imagine a legitimate reason to ask for an offer in direct negotiations. Make an offer to sell and see what the reaction is. (Obviously if you accept offers on ebay that's a different deal.)

It's sort of like everyone is trying to see if the other side is a rube with no clue.

Make an offer is referring to BEST OFFER on ebay.

Great points. I agree with them. I have nothing to add.

I hate this saying. What the heck is the point of having the cake if you can't eat it? I know the point is you can't eat the cake and still have it, but the phrasing is still annoying. For an alternative, I suggest "You can't sit in two chairs with one butt." Or maybe a more appropriate alternative for this situation is "You can't keep your card and sell it too."

Carry on.

Best offer
 

If you're disenchanted with getting offers don't offer that as an option on eBay. List a fixed price. Problem solved.

that's funny...as I was typing it I was kinda thinking the same thing!!!!!

Honestly, I never thought of that. Thanks for the advice I will look into that

So you buy something as a BIN and it never occurred to you to sell it as a BIN.:confused::confused:

I absolutely hate hearing some dealer at a card show tell me what they have into a card when I ask about the price. Why do I care what you paid for something? If you made a bad buy, don't even bother putting it out. I'm not going to pay $200 more for a card because you did.

yea cause I wasn't messing with him

+1111

Agree. I understand the psychology of it, because a dealer who buys something for resale will likely do so with a profit margin in mind, but sometimes a seller misjudges the market and what they "have into it" isn't relevant to a prospective purchaser. I realize that market prices for some (particularly less common) items may not be readily apparent, but there are dealers who will hang on to an item seemingly forever because of what they "have into it." Of course, it's perfectly within their rights to do so and if an item isn't available at a price that suits the buyer, then it's best to just move on.

Exactly. Price it! If you walk something into a show and want me to buy it, how will you know to accept any offer I might make you if you don't know what you want for it? Of course, I know there's a good chance you're just going to take my offer and use it to sell to a dealer who's willing to give you a dollar more. I'll tell you what, go and try to get the other dealers to make you an offer, and then come see me! And if you're a dealer, and you can't tell me what you want for your own goods, I'll see you later--not!

I'm not sure I believe most who tell me what they're into something they're selling any way. And even if it is the truth it does not affect what I'm willing to pay.

To the OPs post it should be the seller's responsibility to list a starting price. Listings with no asking prices are one of my pet peeves around here. Asking someone to negotiate against themself is equally ridiculous. If a price is set make an offer.

I do like Jake's note on his listings that any inquiry asking what's the lowest price you will take will be met with what's the most you will pay.

Original statement was "you can't eat your cake and have it to"

In line with what you are saying, I was always taught in business never to bid against yourself. If you have a price posted then that is your price until someone makes you an offer to consider less. I hate it when I see people who say I'd like $100 but I'll take $80. Why bid against yourself?? If anyone ever asks me "what will you take?", I simply reply "My price is what's posted unless you make an offer that motivates me to change it."

As to your part 2... My wife and & decided to try and sell her old house by owner, hoping lightning would strike, so to speak. Apparently, these free courses people offer on how to flip houses, teach them to ask how much they owe on the house, in hopes they can make a low ball offer and "bail someone out". We can discuss trying to feed on the poor and desparate separately, but why in the hell how much I owe on a house is ANY of your business? It's such a stupid way of doing business, but people do it in all walks of life. I'm with you, I HATE IT. The same goes to dealers offering what they paid for a card unsolicited. I've found myself guilty of doing so before trying to justify the high price I have a card listed for, almost apologetically. I need to stop doing so.

Lastly, I'd like to add a 3rd pet peeve... I hate it when people try to tell me why the price I am asking is wrong and send me examples of lower priced cards sold. There is a difference when someone asks $800 for a $100 card. But if I price something at, near or even above high VCP, there is a reason. If you don't want to pay it, no problem. But don't lecture me!

In the recent miniseries about how the FBI finally tracked down the Unabomber, that phrase took a front seat in the examinations and comparisons of text/writings in the case. I was laughing because I always hated the way the phrase is generally said (wrongly) in our country, "You can't have your cake and eat it too," and one of the things that led them to Kaczynski was his repeated use of the 'correct' wording of the phrase. Fascinating stuff.

well if that same seller likes to say 'i cant sell it for x because i have more than x into the card' Then they should be prepared for buyers who know how much another card they bought to offer them more than that number and state that.

I am assuming the new buyer people who are quoting what seller bought the card previously for are making their offer in the context of a 'reasonable range' comparable to prior sales.

People who are afraid to list prices usually are too scared to sell a card because they are worried they wont get enough so they want to just listen to offers which usually wont work out OR they want a ridiculous amount

funny i was going to mention that..

My pet peeve is when someone comes on a message board and repeatedly asks other people’s opinion on the value or authenticity of an item so that they can buy it and sell it for a profit instead of doing their own research...

one could argue that doing that is part of doing their own research..

Ill add a pet peeve

'priced to sell' yet listed for years

Amen times a frickin' million!!!!

Couple of times, sure. On a regular basis? Not so much.

Not pricing your cards in your case at a card show, so you look them up on sheet of paper for every card....or priced but on the back of the card.

How about people who say they want to trade up to an iconic card worth six figures by stating clearly that their plan is to repeatedly give board members something worth less than what they receive in return.

Love those guys.

Just sayin.

Great Steve - I thought I was the only one who saw through that plan. LOL

have it to what? To hold? To eat again? To smash in someone's face? I need to know :)

Except I was trying to trade up to a 5 figure PSA 1 or 2 and didn't rip anyone off as every single trade partner on this site can attest to.

You need to be locked in the bathroom though because you're a mush.

^^This^^ Plus those that lie and say it is for their personal collection only to find out they are full of it. They are only on here to make cash. Nothing wrong with being on here to make cash, just the lying part is BS.

If any board member sends me $500 I will send them $300. Promptly. With a smile. All in fun of course.

But those buyers who try to get cards at a discount. Man those guys are kill joys.

or they look up the price in those fantasy price books and always at 'mint'

right selling the card to pay taxes or health or whatever......i just dont care of the reason for they buy or sell


I also like the guys that make posts about wanting to trade 4 or 5..low grade non-key cards for a 1951 bowman mantle

Its never someone wanting to sell a 1951 mantle psa 3 for a bunch of non rookie brooks robinson/Yaz etc.. always a 6 for 1 key iconic card ie.RC mantle/1933 ruth/t206 cobb

Those are the same guys that try to do 3 for 1 NL fantasy baseball trades...where its their 3 curtis granderson/#4 Starting pitcher and a .270 17 homer 70 rbi fill in the blank guy for bryce harper

You are seriously a ray of negative energy. Such a mush.

Sellers want to sell for the most profit possible. Buyers want to buy for the lowest price possible. No duh, right? If someone doesn't make you an offer while asking you to negotiate against yourself, move on. I wouldn't even respond. Respond only to offers and legit item questions.

You ask, why not throw out a number that's fair? But that is precisely what is being negotiated. A potential buyer might ask, why not start with a number that is fair? I think you have items with very, very robust asking prices. Items where asking is 5-7.5x your purchase price (since I was underbidder or watcher of items you bought). And purchase prices were right about fair market value! Sorry, but I can't understand how you can cry foul about lowballers and be fine ripping the piss out of...in your words...active members of the communiy if they bought the item at asking.

Maybe I don't trust your pricing because I don't trust your expertise. I don't trust your write-ups or valuations, because you solicit much help from the board. My 2 cents.

Someone claiming they are leaving the hobby but their prices listed for their cards are 'make me leave the hobby' because they are priced waayyy to high

someone listing a card they have asking for comments how nice looking it is....and then suddenly a few days later an emergency/house needs to be bought (i already covered that issue) so now the card is listed for sale...

OT: does your ebay store collect CA tax (since it says you are in CA) though you are in NY? I don't know how it works. But it always struck me as weird.

It is probably just one of many divisions of the brick and mortar store.

LOL aren't you the one that offers me $8 on 15 stubs? stop it.

$9 for 15 stubs - final offer.

The best is when people talk smack (like you two) but when I get something you need you come slithering out of your holes acting like everything is cool lol

I PRAY I get something you guys need bad, because I will never sell to either of you again.

Especially since you both nickel and dime me on $20 error cards and $15 undated ticket stubs lol

Also Dewey,

How shall I gain expertise without asking questions? In just over a year I have learned more than I have ever expected in the ticket field, publication field , photo field, and much more. I have put in over 12 hours a day to the hobby, reading over 10 books, researching, asking questions, talking to experts, talking to dealers, talking to auction houses etc.

I am gonna be a force in a few years trust me. A big force. Everyone needs to start somewhere though. I am not scared to ask questions or look bad in the process if it means furthering my knowledge and or my career. I am not afraid of losing money and making bad buys, if it means learning a lesson and speeding up the learning curve.

My write ups take a lot of time and effort, and I put in hours of research on items, make calls to head authorities in the fields etc. so if me asking questions on the board makes you doubt me, then it's plain stupid.

Please tell me and everyone else about any time I tried to nickel and dime you. We have had 2 transactions. 1) I slightly overpaid for a ticket stub I needed. 2) Several people made you trade offers on a group of 3 error cards and you accepted mine, so mine must have been the best offer.:)

I do know the return address from both transactions was to a brick and mortar card and memoribilia shop called Top Tier Collectibles.

Back to some of the original thoughts >gasp< I post a price on everything I sell, and the vast majority of my inventory at any given show is stickered. That still doesn't stop people from approaching me live, and online, with "what's the best you can do on that." It happens a lot. It doesn't bother me so much on a $20 card, but I don't want to try and make a living constantly selling at "the best I can do" on $1000 items!

Whats the brick and mortar store have to do with anything? I never understood your point.

Also the card I got from you in the 2nd transaction... well let's not get into that.

Just finished that show last night on Netflix. Quality show. Lead character was a bit lacking in my opinion, still a fine show. I think Mindhunter one-ups it however. Also on Netflix.

If you have cake, you can end a sentence in a preposition.

Absolutely
 

+1

If only I could like this a thousand times.

In the BST if a seller doesnt have a price listed, I click the back button and continue on my way. At a show, if a dealer does not have items priced visible to the customers, I keep walking to the next table.

Do I miss out on things this way, of course. But I have more important things to worry about and at the end of the day I never find myself sitting around saying to myself "Man, I have all this money to spend...and nothing to spend it on."

Umm . . . if you eat enough cake you can!

I always found this interesting. If you don't know much about a certain subject maybe don't make it a business.

Here's another one from my pet peeve book: If you've taken the same cards to the last 10 White Plains shows and haven't sold any of them, take a long look at why that is and stop showing up. I absolutely hate walking around a show and being surrounded by museums of not even quality cards that could be easily sold but are being sold by guys who want the world for them. It's nice that you're taking up space and the show looks filled out, but if you could put on a show filter for guys who aren't interested in actually selling their cards, you'll only have a few tables to look at.

I’ve decided to become an architect today. What kind of pencil do I need to get?

Actually, you would be ending it in an adverb (assuming you meant "too" and not "to", that is). :D
/thread derail

I guess I'm in the minority, but I feel that what a seller previously paid for a card is relevant. Unless you're using them as fuel to heat your home, cards don't have value independent of what people are wiling to pay for them. So what someone previously paid for a card helps set the value. If I want a card, I may be willing to pay above market, but no one wants to feel like they're getting fleeced.

Also, providing the seller with information about what comparable cards have sold for doesn't seem wrong to me. Maybe the seller doesn't know that his price is unlikely to be met. I'll do that on eBay sometimes, simply let someone know that the going price for something is such and such, that I'll give them a bit more than that, but that they're free to try and sell it for more if they want to.

Relevant in what way? If you overpaid for something, how does that have any impact on me as the buyer? Why would I overpay you for something because you overpaid yourself when I could just buy it from someone else? If the first thing a dealer has to say about a card is what it cost them, that's not a card I'm going to buy.

Take your pick. Or, if you ever happen to be sitting near Jackie I suggest a felt tip.:D

I think it is also relevant to know when the seller bought the card in question. Just because someone paid top dollar for a Mark McGwire rookie back in 1998 doesn't mean it is still going to sell for that price today. Just like any other card out there that has recently trended up just because you bought at the peak of interest doesn't mean the value is going to hold.

I get the offer thing for sure. I've started setting a low threshhold thing on most BO items on ebay. I just can't tolerate the $10 offer on the $100 item. I figure I set a $60-$70 floor and then I weed all the jackwagons out of the equation. If someone REALLY wants something, they'll find a way to offer whether there's a best offer option or not.

I guess to the original point. I look at past sales and negotiate trying to stay on the low end as a buyer. Just as dealers pay lower prices when buying collections. If you picked up an item for $500 and you say it's worth $1500 why didn't it sell for $1500? Wrong audience? Bad marketing etc. I don't think it's insulting for someone to offer $650 on that item. If you don't want offers then make the prices firm.

On eBay I've come across some high volume dealers that accept 50% of a BO price. This has caused me to sometimes make these similar type offers with other sellers. Many times I get a flat out not accepted and other times I get a counter that is lower than I was willing to pay. So as a buyer who doesn't sell who has a modest budget if you want me to make an offer don't take offense if you feel it's too low. Just flat out say no or counter it. But why pay more when I don't have to.

I do agree to the point that if you paid $80 for a McGwire Olympic card in 98 and the market says it's worth $10 I don't give a d@mn. But recent sales do matter. That's why people shell out good money for VCP.

And yes. If you set a threshold and an offer is made much lower you don't deal with it. Problem solved on eBay.

If you know the market value of an item, mark a price, end of problem. If you have a problem with negotiating, eliminate the Make an Offer option, end of problem. I'm not sure the point of these posts, and one of the reasons I have not posted on net54 in months. How does this increase my knowledge of the hobby? It doesn't. Carry on collectors.

I want to just say that I believe some of my first post was misconstrued and I probably should have been more clear.

In regards to the first scenario, I was referring to ebay.

I assumed everyone already understood I had a number up and wasn't just blindly saying make an offer.

Anyone that watches my BST sees that I rarely do not put a price, unless it is something unique that I am not 100% sure of the market so want to field offers to get an idea as there are not many comps out there.


In regards to the second scenario,

I do not mean instances in which an item has a VCP etc.

Here is one example.

I recently purchased a 1919 World Series guest pin on ebay. I paid $750. The dealer knew it was worth more as did I, however he needed quick cash for a auction that was ending soon.

We agreed on a price and now it is public knowledge. I sent out some photos to people (dealers and collectors) to see if there was interest, and I would get back the same thing...

Is this the one that just sold on ebay for $750? I'd do X on it.

Ok so in my opinion an item like this is worth anywhere from 1500 up to 5000 or even more depending on how many are out there and how many people want to compete over it.

Low ball offers based on what I spent on the item in this case are insulting and plain wrong.

This is the context in which I meant it.

Hope that clarifies some of the qualms.

"Where are you at?"

"Don't end sentences in a preposition."

"OK: where are you at, jackass?"

On the OP, I agree w/r/t eBay listings with a Best Offer. My opening price is my offer, so I am soliciting actual offers, not requests to revise my offer. Not something to get bent out of shape about, though. The world is full of trolls, so just politely tell them to make an offer and you will consider it. Also, make sure you put a floor on your best offer by automatically rejecting anything below a specific level. It will weed out the bottom feeders. Eventually these trolls quit or make an actual offer. I had one of these perpetual tire-kickers who finally made an offer and it was more than I'd have accepted for the item, so you never know. Sometimes they will dust the cobwebs off their wallets and step up.

I also hate that "what's the best you can do" inquiry. It is one of those down-home-isms that creeps into commercial language because it feels less confrontational than asking a more direct question. Marty (hi Marty) has the best response: The best I can do is my listed price. Instead of that silly question I now ask "what is the absolute lowest price you will sell this for?" It is more direct and sort of rude but at least it is honest. Yes, I am aware that I end the sentence in a preposition; saying "for which you will sell this item" sounds like I am having tea with the queen.

I also agree that the "you paid this" tactic is annoying. It is also a bad negotiation technique. If I know what you paid and when you bought something, why would I let you know that I know? Divulging information about your strategy or resources gratuitously gives your opponent potentially useful data in countering you. The better strategy would be to offer something reasonable without explaining it. Account for the low price the seller paid to tempt the seller to accept and generate a quick profit. If I see a dealer pay $250 for a $1000 card I may offer him $750 to sell it immediately. I get a substantial discount to market and I put him into a quandary. A smart trader understands that a quick flip at a good profit and putting that money back to work is often a better strategy than sitting on inventory hoping for a top price buyer. I know I consider how much I paid and how long I held an item when I try to sell it. I learned that watching Alan Rosen in action at a show in San Francisco in the 1980s. He bought a great collection of 1950s cards for $5400 and within hours wholesaled pieces of the deal to other dealers. He didn't retail the cards to eke out top prices over the course of a year, he got in and got out and put the money back to work. Of course, that assumes you have the faith that you will continue to get deals. If you treat every deal like a live-or-die one, you can't take a reasonable offer and you end up with a lot of inventory.

there are dealers that just say price firm or if its volume they give universal discount for totals over X amount. maybe also give free shipping or discount on payment method

Some buyers will walk if cant think they can negotiate but then you dont have to deal with 'whats the best you can do' stuff ...its your decision but always a downside on either.....

check VCP or consumer reports

i dont care what a seller paid....but it doesnt bother me if they tell me. For one, i know every buyer in the world always points to a past sale of a 'better conditioned card' that sold for less...

In your statement you are assuming you can just buy it from someone else, what if you cant because the centering is unique from the card and it doesnt come up often etc. At least if the seller tells you what they paid for the card that will save time if you arent willing to pay more than that..

In my experience someone only says "I have X into it" regarding cards commonly bought and sold.

How much are you looking to get for that Cobb bat off?

Well, I have X into, so how about double X?

i get you...but if its one of those 10 or so hot cards....like a green centered cobb....they are going 3x the price in some grades versus 6 months ago......for 99% of the cards i agree with you..

i usually comment like 'well everyone doesnt make money on every card...look at vcp, you can see specific cards go for more than later less.....someone taking a little loss is better than a big loss..

Prescisely. Now, if they are lying about how much they paid for it, that's a different story.

Meanwhile, if someone only paid $250 for what would ordinarily be a $1000 card, it raises some questions about whether the exact item they have is actually worth $1000.

If you're buying a house, is it relevant what the house previously sold for? Or what the identical model across the street sold for a year ago?

A lot of people don't like being called out on how much of a profit they're making, but there may be legitimate reasons to bring up a prior sales price. As a seller, you can always refuse to sell if the offer is too low in your estimation.

So none of the multiple dealers who you contacted about this pin were interested in offering you more than you had paid for it. Dealers. People who are in this business to make money, were not willing to offer you more than you paid for it. You think its worth $1500 to $5000, or more...so if it WAS worth that much, dont you think that one of those dealers you contacted would have snatched it up at say $1000 ir $1200 if they knew it was worth $1500 to $5000? I mean, they would make a 25-50% profit at a minimum...right up a dealers alley! Or maybe your valuation of this pin is way off base and the true valuation of what is a relatively non-descript pin that simply says "1919 world's Series" of which no other examples can be found...is closer to, or less than, the price you actually paid for it.

Just a thought.

I was being offered 900-1000 (because they knew I paid $750.

Would you sell a 1919 guess pass for a 25% profit? Be honest. And do you really think it's worth less than $1500?

Yes....and not think twice about it. You got lucky to get it as cheap as you did. I thought I got lucky to get my 1932 US Caramel Lefty Grove as cheap as I did. Until someone won it for $300 less than me. Then I realized I wasn't lucky at all. I was a fool. Take the profit and run.

I disagree with that (no hard feelings as I respect your opinion). When holding a piece such as this, the reward far outweighs the risk in my opinion. The down side is $750 (which it's not, but if I lost it then yes). The upside is... Who Knows?

On a baseball card, where the market is set for the most part, the ceiling is only so high.