Uh, postcard experts, a little help please......
 

So, the other night I saw a couple postcards the piqued my interest. The first one I got blown out on:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ORIGINAL-191...vip=true&rt=nc

Still, I had one more that I liked and that one I won. If this isn't authentic, someone went through a lot of trouble. The name "Pete" had me concerned in the upper left corner, but player #3 overrode my concerns and the price was right either way. The guy was right on one point. He was a White Sox player, but his name wasn't Ferguson. If this postcard is from the earlier 1920s and its authentic, it's very interesting (thank you, Artie Johnson for this wonderful line from Laugh In). Some Quebec fans had to have had a chuckle when this guy came back under another name:

who is it?

Assuming by the ears and the tone of the OP someone thinks it's Shoeless Joe

Nope.

Turd Furguson?

:)

Chick?

Rob M

Yep.

Does look like him. There's no Furguson on the Wite Sox roster back in that era so that fits. He was from Minnesota so that could fit as to why he would be in Canada. Wiki says he was playing out west after the scandal so is there anything else that would place him playing in Canada?

Rob M

Well, he previously played in Montreal as evidenced by his 1912 C46 card.

I won the other postcard, for not bidding higher I say...

Thank you, Brian.

:D

IF it is Chick, then it would fit that 1) A. Martin is another Black Sox player. I see no Martin that played in that period with Chicago. It might be Buck Weaver?

Rob M

Not Buck Weaver.

Swede

Sorry to say, but no.

I'm in a giving mood - I'm stickiing with Swede as No. 1. He is known to have played in Canada after the banishment.

Admiral Martin is listed with the Quebec Bulldogs in 1923 and 1924, which fits the name on the back of your PC as guy number 1.

Thank you, Ed. That is good and bad news. It confirms Admiral Martin, but he didn't play for the White Sox. Now, here are a couple links to the Quebec teams
for 1923 and 1924. Other names on the postcard come up in the links.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/r...gi?id=449092ab

https://www.baseball-reference.com/r...gi?id=81522855

1924 fits most of the guys on your card. No Turd Ferguson, though.:D

:D

And you know who else I saw in the stands....:D

Maybe................
 

maybe not.............

Keeping in mind these photos aren't exactly to scale and whatnot, the nose seems significantly less prominent and his ears a little too elongated for Gandil. (And, although the hat gets in the way, he doesn't appear to have that wide, alien-looking forehead either.) However, the dark and light areas on the sides of his mouth to his cheeks are somewhat similar.

Here's a comparison...

Attachment 287810

Tim and Darren,

Thank you both. I see your points, but there is something in the jaw line and in the way he comports himself in the photo, as well as his size, that tells me it's Gandil. Of course, "White Sox" on the back of the postcard for the ID points me in the Gandil direction, but as we've seen with the first player ID, that may not mean much.

By the way, Tim, I love the reaction of the player sitting next to Gandil in the Washington Senators photo. He's just leaning away as though Gandil just did something offensive.

"Who is Turd Ferguson?"

You have to phrase it as a question.

Nice. My 3 digit snipe didn't register :)

lol. :D

Whew! :D

Now, if an individual postcard existed. Found these on eBay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/3817329...477&rmvSB=true

That's not Gandil. Not even close actually. But neat postcard none the less.

I'll trade you for your Ramly display window.

I respectfully beg to differ.

Well they do say never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

Nice Gandil.

Now, that is a left handed compliment! :D

For what it's worth here is another picture of Gandil on eBay. I know it's a nine year difference.

Well, Admiral Martin is just who it says he is. Maybe he had a sniff from the White Sox at a tryout.

Rob M

Attachment 287831

Maybe it's Paul Waner.

"This song from a 1999 animated film about censorship had a word censored from its Oscar performance."

"What is the Love Ballad of Turd Ferguson?"

This was done on the real Jeopardy.

Everything I've ever read about Gandil after 1919 has him staying in either Southern California or playing briefly in the Southwest. I don't remember reading he ever returned to Canada or ever playing under an assumed name. In fact, I would think that for a guy like Gandil, his name was all he had if he wanted to earn some money as a ringer.

lol. :D

Concur, not Gandil, sorry wish it was.

Brian - You have again shown yourself to be remarkably bad at this. JollyElm (post 24) got it exactly right and saved me the trouble of finding the perfect comparison photo. You have demonstrated a combination of really bad facial recognition ability (something you can't help) combined with a refusal to even consider that there is actually some science behind the right way to do this -- this perhaps you could do something about, though even that requires some aptitude for comparing complex shapes as seen in photos. If you weren't otherwise a knowledgeable and well-known collector this would be less important, I guess. Nothing personal. :) All the best, Mark

At last sweet mystery of life I've found you!

I was wondering when you were going to show up. :D

Good to hear from you. I disagree of course, but feel free to chime in with your ear analysis. I welcome it.

The jaw lines don't match (yes I know you can't perceive that). And, "the way he comports himself" - what the heck does that mean? As to his size - what can you tell about his size unless you know the size of the players next to him? 3 strikes in one post - yer out!

I have asked you for your opinion and you insult me. Not good. As for being very bad at this, I have successfully identified in previous posts of items Roxy Walters:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...highlight=Roxy

Fritz Mollwitz:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...light=Mollwitz

Bill Carrigan, Ray Collins and Johnny Evers, although I miscounted and I'll give you credit for the proper counting in IDing Evers:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...light=Carrigan

Yeah, I really suck at this. An admission. Please note that I have not insulted you at any point in this post :). I may be wrong on the Gandil, and you may disagree with me on the Waner, but it is Paul Waner.

I think a poll on that Waner would prove most interesting.

Feel free, Karthik. I have never minded being in the minority.

Brian - Any insult would have been in my first post -- at that point you didn't seem to take offense. The second post emphasized what I think was at best very fuzzy "thinking" as to your reasons for the Gandil ID. If you are offended by that I don't care.

Thanks for posting your facial ID resume. As a consultant on this particular subject (sometimes even paid) for major AH's, grading companies, Library of Congress, Boston Public Library, Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum to name a few (and even for non-baseball folks such as at the Harriet Beecher Stowe Museum), and having published literally a few hundred pages on the subject for SABR, I can tell you that people who have problems with this don't get them all wrong - they get a fair number of them right. The problem is that they can't tell the difference between when they get it right vs. when they are asserting an ID that is beyond ludicrous. Your Mollwitz ID was nicely done, but Your Gandil and Waner IDs are beyond ludicrous. If you are offended, I can live with that.

We agree to disagree on the Waner. As for the Gandil, I may be wrong. Still, on other fronts, even with all the care that can be taken, even the most studied and precise of men can be wrong. Not an insult, just an observation from experience.

So we trade study and precision for your gut feeling which you can't support in a clear manner? That's OK for religion, but not for this.

Well, I'm not a religious man, but I dated the minister's daughter. That said, I have noted before and will note again that I have seen hundreds of Paul Waner photos over the last thirty plus years. It is Paul Waner. If you want to contradict that, it is your choice. By the way, one more thing to note is that Paul is pictured as a pitcher in the photo. Just like his father, Ora Lee, Paul was a star amateur pitcher. It was not until he was in the PCL that his manager, Dots Miller, a former Pirate and member of the 1909 World Series Champion Pittsburgh Pirates (gotta get in a prop for the home team) switched him to the outfield. Also, as you are aware from "The Glory of Their Times" that the reasons Waner became a major leaguer is that the scout, who was on his way to scout a player by the name of Flashkamper, went on a bender and ended up sitting down next to a conductor on a train who raved about Paul Waner. It didn't hurt Waner was dating the conductor's daughter at the time of the meeting. Interesting how a star pitcher turned out to be a 3,000 hitter with a lifetime .333 average.

Ok, if it ain't Chick, then we are back to square one. Who is Turd Furguson?

By comparison to Martin, he's around 6'-0" and 190ish

According to the notation on the back he played for the White Sox

There is no Furguson that shows up on the White Sox roster in that era

His hat appears to possibly be a White Sox hat

Looks to be in his later 20's / early 30's

There is no Furguson shown on the Quebec rosters

Uniform and player names likely place the photo around 1924

Mark can prove it's not Norm McDonald

The guy doesn't look Canadian to me, and over the years I've seen hundreds of photos of Canadians. So he can't be Norm McDonald

The reason I am stating that I could be wrong is that there is are a couple of important identifiers that neither I nor anyone can see and that is the eyes of the person, and the top part of his head, particularly the forehead. That does leave the comparison at a disadvantage. It is interesting that "White Sox" is listed on the back of the card, but it was as well for Martin and that may or may not be a mistake. That information, as well as a lot of the team information, is not available even with the links I posted.

By the way guys, don't get to worked up about this. As soon as I get my new iphone X I will be able to prove if that is Chick Gandil's face. They say it has facial recognition.

Rob M

It works by scanning actual 3-dimensional faces, not 2-D images. Apparently it can measure distance as well as light intensity.

I got your joke, Rob.................

Now THAT is Turd Ferguson.

But it only recognizes Joe Jackson!!

Thanks Tim. I probably should have thrown the emoji on there. ;)

Rob M

Gotta have weird baby hands to be Norm

:D Of course not all the identifiers can be seen:

Just a guess but that looks like Ted Cassidy's hand.
Attachment 288028

:D Yes, we have a winner of the Addams Family trivia contest!

Thank you, Pat.

P.S.

Dang. The hand isn't Canadian, but Ted was born in Pittsburgh. What a long way to go for a hometown plug :D.