Is This Really Babe Ruth?
I was going through some of my oddball Babe cards and came across this one. It's a 1935 Muratti cigarette card of Babe and Olympic diver, Dorothy Boynton. The card back mentions that in 1928 Dorothy, a diver, was 14 and the youngest athlete ever to win an Olympic medal. It states that she won the 1932 Gold for diving in LA. The photo is presumably from the 1932 Olympics. Not a word about the Babe though. He seems kind of slim to be Babe and I think the nose is wrong. Also, the Olympics in LA ran July 30, 1932 to August 14, 1932. Wouldn't Babe be playing ball then?
http://i.imgur.com/pdCaV4B.jpg http://i.imgur.com/yqU8oCo.jpg Or could the man be Dorothy's coach, Ernie Brandsten? http://i.imgur.com/7JRWMqB.jpg http://i.imgur.com/YGWwmpw.jpg Babe in 1932: http://i.imgur.com/nImuMiC.jpg http://i.imgur.com/bQBx94m.jpg http://i.imgur.com/Fw8SjnY.jpg Any ideas? |
Ruth played in only 133 games in 1932, but appears in every Yankee box score from 7/31 thru 8/14 during the Olympics. The closest he got to LA was a series of road games in St Louis during that interval.
The Yankees did not play the Angels in 1932 either.:D I'm not very good with ears and noses as ENT was not my specialty. A photograph of Ernie in a bow tie could be helpful. You may be right. |
Doesn't look like Ruth to me. My pick is the coach.
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This has been brought up before, and, IIRC, it was the general consensus that this wasn't Babe Ruth.
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He Looks More Like "The Whammer"
From "The Natural" I'm not accustomed to the Written Language on the Back Howevar, I Don't See "Ruth's" Name Mentioned!? So? Who was the marketing genius fir PSA This Time Around? Has Anybody Evar Seen This Card Labeled Wit out Mr. Ruth Mention'd? |
No discussion is required. It is beyond self evident that that fellow is NOT Babe Ruth. I mean, come on!!
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"No discussion required" = why is OP wasting my time? "beyond self evident" = why is OP wasting my time? "I mean, come on" = why is the OP wasting my time? Darren we're going to need to see some smiley face emojis in the future to help us determine if you are actually being funny or if you are just being yourself. Back to the thread...in my opinion, most likely not Ruth. |
I think we have a match:
http://www.gettyimages.dk/detail/new...re-id530863020 Question is, how did both PSA and Beckett get it into their heads that Babe Ruth is pictured on that card? There are currently three different PSA graded copies, and one BVG graded copy on ebay. Steve |
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I sent a message to the setregistry email to have it removed from the Master and Super Set registries at PSA.
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So the question becomes; How many people paid Babe Ruth money for that card, and how many people paid Ernst Brandsten money for that card?
:D |
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I feel more strongly now that the guy shown on the card is not Ruth. |
Nothing gets by PSA. :rolleyes:
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Sorry to the OP Frank (mantlefan) for the derailing of the thread. All my fault. Still not Ruth and flips should be corrected. |
For context, little boy Curt is upset that he couldn't talk me out of one of my PSA 8 1973 Kaline variations with the Band Aid on his forehead. So he waits a couple of months, sees me in this thread, and suddenly decides to type away insults at me out of nowhere. I thought this d-bag was just playing around, but then I was like, "What the heck??"
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Still probably not Babe Ruth. |
Nice
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Meanwhile I've been waiting for a photo of Ernie Brandsten in a bow tie and now we have it from Steve.
Sorry to interrupt the discussion. Carry on. |
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Again, sorry for sidetracking the thread. I probably shouldn't be counseling Darren in public, but it appears he needs some guidance.
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And, buttercup, see tomorrow I have things to do, as I have something you clearly don't...a life. So I may not be around to answer the pathetic crap that spills out of your mouth until later in the day. Hope that works for you. Oh, speaking of your mom, would you like me to send you a picture of the Kaline card that you covet so much that it's sent you into a frenzy?? Perhaps mommy will crochet the image into a pillow for you, so she can use it the next time she tucks you in, okay, darling boy?? |
Can't you guys flirt via PM? None of us care.
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And now?
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Here's Babe's schedule while the Olympics were operating and the picture was taken: https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.websi...m/1237/3412494 Could he have flown to LA for the weekend? |
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Plausible beyond belief
Perhaps it is just another insidious case of a Babe in Earnie's clothing.
Brian |
Agree
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http://i.imgur.com/sc2usM8.jpg |
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http://www.sportsmemorabilia.com/spo...st-graded.html :eek::eek: |
PWCC should have know it was Ernie, not Babe.;););)
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If it was Ruth, you would think the back would have mentioned it?
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I'm thinking the card must be incorrectly listed in Beckett's guide, or the SCD Standard Catalog. I looked in my 2005 and 2007 editions of the SCDSC, and it isn't listed. Beckett.com does list it as a Babe Ruth card in their database.
Right now on ebay, there are 4 of them graded by PSA, one graded by Beckett, and one more graded by SGC. So, all the grading companies are furthering the mistaken identity, but where did they get there information from? Steve |
Wowie
Well Dale, the price is kinda steep, but code BBQ for "$20 off" has me getting ready to press the buy button!
http://i.imgur.com/epX1nF0.jpg |
German
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Congrats on your P/U. PSA 9's are nothing to laugh about, especially when they are cards of Babe Ruth. :rolleyes: |
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https://img.comc.com/i/MultiSport/19...&size=original
1962 Dickson Orde Sports of the Countries - [Base] #11 - America (Babe Ruth) [PSA*8] Courtesy of COMC.com Who is this guy? Not Babe Ruth (or really anyone) IMO. It's just a mention on the back. Kind of like: https://scontent-dft4-3.xx.fbcdn.net...42&oe=5A1DDD5F |
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Nope, no response from the Set Registry team yet.
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all 3 of the big grading compaines need to see the evidence and make the correction.
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This really seems to like a huge screw up by the TPG companies. The value of that card is just about zero without Babe Ruth. Wonder how the hobby ever came to accept that it was Ruth in the image?
Aside from the fact that lots of people now have a card that is nearly worthless (if they are being honest when they try to sell it), this eliminates one of the few Ruth pre World War II cards that could still be had for under $500. |
As they say, a prosopagnosiac and his money are soon parted.
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I am pretty sure I have a good full on photo of Ernst Brandsten. I just pulled out a photo him and two of his Olympic diving athletes to scan to my website. I will post it when I get home this evening.
Brandsten competed in diving at the 1912 Olympics but did not medal. His wife Greta Johansson also competed in diving in 1912 winning a gold medal. They trained divers at Stanford for 33 years. Both were inducted into the International Swimming Hall of Fame in Florida. At one point I owned a large group of Greta's personal HOF programs signed by many HOFer Olympians. |
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/ˌpräsəpaɡˈnōZH(ē)ə/ noun Psychiatry noun: prosopagnosia an inability to recognize the faces of familiar people, typically as a result of damage to the brain. Your welcome.:) |
Shows the hypnotic power of the flip. I looked at the card (online) 1,000 times and never one questioned it. Now looking at it it is clearly not babe Ruth. I wouldn't even say even close to Babe Ruth. Unreal.
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I don't normally look at a lot of threads in this section, but the title piqued my curiosity. I am glad I did. I knew immediately it was not Babe Ruth. I guess the expression 'You tell a lie enough times and people will believe it' holds true here. For everyone's edification here is a photo of Ernst (NOT Ernest) Brandsten with two of his star divers at Stanford circa 1926-27. Dave Fall on the left won a silver medal in diving in 1924. He became an attorney practicing maritime law in California. Just before his death in 1964 he was appointed a district court judge in California. Pete Desjardins on the right won a silver medal in diving in 1924 and gold medals in both diving events in 1928. I will also post this in the other thread.
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And now, PWCC has one in their new auction:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1935-Muratt...sAAOSw-NFav~yF I just sent an email to them asking them to look up the thread(s) here on Net54. Steve |
Good Luck
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Good luck with that, Steve. |
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I know, call me a hopeless optimist :) Steve |
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Has there been any correspondence/info with regards to PSA and Joe Orlando about this card? I am sure the monetary hit would be huge, but like they also try to convey, the proper thing to do would be to own this mistake. Edit: I found the other thread and based on it, I highly doubt PWCC nor PSA will be doing anything soon with regards to removing/admitting anything. http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=252123 Anyway you look at it, it is just wrong these cards are still being sold as Ruth cards and it is equally wrong PSA has not yet acknowledged their mistake.:mad: |
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PWCC ended the auction. I once sent Joe Orlando a tweet about the incorrect details regarding the Babe Ruth Shonen Club Japanese postcard and he responded by blocking me.
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Robert, what incorrect details about the Shonen Ruth?
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That is great to see! :) |
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I just looked on the PSA registry, and the Muratti card does not appear in either the Babe Ruth Master or Super Set. It also is listed as only "Dorothy Poynton" in the pop report.....no mention of Babe Ruth on it.
Steve |
Surprised
I AM surprised that it was pulled. Good work Steve.
I sent this email to a few people at PSA and have never received a reply: March 5, 2018 Hi xxe I hope you are well. I know it's not in your expertise, but maybe you could forward this to the right person in research at PSA. This card does not depict Babe Ruth, although PSA, SGC and Beckett say it does. I was going through some of my oddball Babe Ruth cards and came across this one. Supposedly it's a 1935 Muratti cigarette card of Babe Ruth and Olympic diver, Dorothy Boynton. The card back mentions that in 1928 Dorothy, a diver, was 14 and the youngest athlete ever to win an Olympic medal. It states that she won the 1932 Gold for diving in LA. The photo was taken at the 1932 Olympics. There is no mention though of the Babe on the front or back. http://i.imgur.com/pdCaV4B.jpg http://i.imgur.com/yqU8oCo.jpg He seems kind of slim to be Babe and I think the nose is wrong. Also, the Olympics in LA ran July 30, 1932 to August 14, 1932. Babe played for the Yankees in Detroit, Chicago and St. Louis on those dates. http://i.imgur.com/bQBx94m.jpg http://i.imgur.com/Fw8SjnY.jpg http://i.imgur.com/nImuMiC.jpg https://i.imgur.com/7JRWMqB.jpg The card actually depicts Dorothy Poynton's coach, Ernie Brandsten: http://i.imgur.com/kKe0k2X.jpg Here is Ernie at the same spot coaching another swimmer. Same hat, bow tie and socks: http://www.net54baseball.com/attachm...1&d=1504484907 I hope something can be done about this situation. People are paying $300 - $400 for this card in PSA 8, believing they purchased a Ruth card, when they haven't. Best, Frank Evanov |
I think it was Ernst but maybe he went by Ernie.
I was told yesterday that PSA took this card off of their registry as to it being Ruth. I haven't confirmed it. Quote:
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Is this really Babe Ruth
My best translation for the back of the B. Ruth card is:
FOCAL POINTS THE GERMAN SPORTS A compilation in 3 volumes Volume I: "Between the Olympics Picture 26 Volume I: Dorothy Poynton was 14 years old when she first came to the USA. At the Olympics in 1928. In Los Angeles in 1932, she won in the dive. By classifying the images in the scrapbook edited by us, the collector receives a sports history of our time, linked in text and image. The Album,, Between the Olympic Games is available at the price of 1 Reichsmark in all Cigaretten - sales outlets or directly through us. The pictures are enclosed with the packs of 10, 25 and 50 pieces of our brand "Muratti Privat". The exchange of images can only take place, after the whole series has been released. In Preparation: Volume II: "A sports nation is preparing" Volume III: "The XI. 1936 Olympics, Berlin Cigarette factories Muratti Stock Company Berlin |
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Corrrect
Herr Bill, das ist richtig.
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is this really Babe Ruth
Danke Google Translate...Ha!
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Looks like these are still in circulation. With Ruth cards being hot lately, I'm sure there are some others getting some pretty decent prices. For those that don't know about this card, you might appreciate this thread?
I wrote the seller to let him know. https://www.ebay.ca/itm/194740985369...75.c101224.m-1 |
I think it's cute how you think he'll actually care. :D;)
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Other than the fact that the dude looks nothing like Ruth and is in an environment that no one would possibly have expected Ruth to have been in. . . . yeah. . . . honest mistake.
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There’s 5 other fixed price listings on eBay ranging between 1000- 8000!
Such a shame, the amount of people who will continue for years to get burned by this card! I don’t get why it was ever even thought to have been Ruth, didn’t make any sense. |
Do the TPGs still slab it as a Ruth card?
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