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PWCC 10 Retraction Rule
What am I missing here? Current top bidder (d***d 1287) has 21 retractions within the last 6 months. I asked them a couple days ago why this is OK in lieu of their recently established rule .. no response to date and he's still active. In fact he has re-upped as the top bidder.
http://www.ebay.com/bfl/viewbids/142...p2047675.l2565 I know this was recently brought up on the board and I'm not trying to pile on, figure out whether it's malicious, "naively inconsiderate", how much they spend, etc. etc. Just simply is there a rule as PWCC has stated or no? If so, again - what am I missing here / why all the exceptions? |
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"Jeez...give Betsy a chance to come on here and explain. My guess is that she can tell us these bidders have both won and paid for more than $60,000 worth of auctions and are therefore exempt from the retraction policy" |
LOL. That new hire must have the week off.
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Looking at a card offered by gregmorriscards. Top bidder with 56 retractions last 6 months. Gross.
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High bidder on psa 10 jordan rc has 25 retractions as of this post.
http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...p2471758.m4792 High bidder on the more expensive of the sp authentic bradys has 11. http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...p2471758.m4792 |
Might as well add my story to the mix, although it's nothing earth-shattering. During the last prewar auction, there were two cards I planned to bid on, and both had bidders with 10+ retractions. I emailed PWCC while the auctions were pending, and received no response. After the auctions were over, I had the next-highest bid on one of the cards, with the serial-retractor winning. I contacted PWCC again to see if I was the winner under their policy. I received a response back from Betsy (or whoever it was) stating that PWCC would not cancel the bids
"unless it is clear that specific bid manipulation has occurred. In this case, my team confirmed there isn't clear evidence of bid manipulation, so we won't cancel the user ID's bids. " Just more confirmation that serial-retractors are free to bid and win auctions, so long as PWCC determines that everything's Kosher. I'm all for having anti-manipulation policies. But having a policy full of unwritten exceptions and caveats is worse than having no policy at all, because the policy creates an expectation on the part of the customer that goes unfulfilled. Better to just leave it to the eBay wild west and buyer beware. |
They need to adopt our BST renege policy. First time and no one is out any money...chalk it up as a mistake. The second time requires a good explanation or they are gone. The third time.....buh bye.
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http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=238568
"As of April 1, 2017 PWCC places blocks on any user ID that has more than 10 bid cancellations in the past six months. This reflects a reduction in the number of allowed bid cancellations from 25 to 10. As the program continues to mature and continues to affect bidder behavior, PWCC will continue to reduce the threshold." Guess not. |
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I try to teach my kid this same basic concept, and I try to impart it to my professional clients as well. There's no point in half-@$$ing something - you either do it, or you don't. |
She is real. I spoke with her on the phone several months ago and expressed some big concerns.
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ETA: Upon further reflection, I certainly understand (as per the scenario in the last thread) why the 2nd bidder in line would want to retract a bid if a higher bidder above them has retracted, thus screwing the underbidder. However, that creates a cascade of retractions, and leads to uneven enforcement of the "policy." The much better way to enforce the policy would be to not only block the IDs, but also to cancel any bids placed by those IDs, even if those bids are deemed to be legitimate. That way, serial-retractors simply cannot participate in PWCC auctions, and underbidder bids will be restored to their proper levels. If the underbidder still has concerns about their max having been exposed, PWCC can cancel the bids on their end and allow the underbidder to re-bid (or not), thereby preventing the underbidder from having to retract on his/her own. |
All this complaining and bitching about PWCC.....As long as they get higher prices than smaller sellers auctioning the same items, the problem is going to get worse, not better. Mark my words.
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Here's another idea: You could ignore PWCC auctions just like people do for a battlefield auction.
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.. Seriously, all the "complaining and bitching" (most of it anyway) wouldn't have come about had they not put out their policy and in the name of addressing fraudsters, shill bidding, shenanigans of the sort, etc. I don't see what possible purpose there could be to put out a strict, stated policy only to not uphold it? :mad: |
I knew as soon as Betsy told us that they were instituting a 10 retraction rule that they would regret it. As long as ebay allows it to happen it's going to happen and there are going to be bidders that abuse it. How many auctions do they have running at any one time? There is no way one person can monitor that especially in the sports card hobby where the percentage of slimeballs is extremely high. I would think that there could be some third party software developed to catch bid retractions and automatically send warnings or block bidders, it can't be that difficult to implement. But just like Ebay, PWCC doesn't really want bid retractors blocked from bidding.
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How hard is it to monitor your (you fill in the blank) most expensive auctions? Especially with an (alleged) full time hire who is (allegedly) monitoring auctions for fraud? The ones I posted today were in their top five auctions and took less than a minute to find.
Yes, ebay is at fault, but so is PWCC. |
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Change will come from the buyers saying no, but that ain't ever happening. |
Dan, you likely are right, but that makes it all the more offensive to come on here and make a pious high-profile display of allegedly trying to stop fraud.
And Frank, this is a serious thread son. Get thee back to the watercooler. :) |
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Fact is, all AH's are whores, advertising their goods to the world. Asking any AH to block a seller is like asking a lawyer not to send a bill; ain't gonna happen. |
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It's still fraud if done knowingly
wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.
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From the Date/Time PWCC Started their 10 Bid Retraction Rule!?!? His "21 Bid Retracts" are/is His Base Line Number... Ahhh Maybe... oR NoT!?!?! :) Anythin's Possible Aye? ;) |
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PWCC Reply
Update and to be fair, I received a message back from PWCC today ..
"Thank you for reaching out. You are correct, this user ID is in violation of our bid retraction policy. We have placed a block on this user ID and have retracted their bid on this listing." |
Good to hear. Now the lot has a winning bidder with only 5 bid retraction.
We're good.:rolleyes: |
In the meantime, no action on this 25 retraction bidder, on an infinitely more expensive card.
http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...p2471758.m4792 |
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Weren't they also going to put an end to the nonsense of string bidding?
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If one has more retractions than bids, a surrogate bidder would be required that would allow you to retract his bid, protecting the surrogates ability to bid within the PWCC policy even if it is enforced.
I'm going to give this a little more thought, but my future may rest in a bid retraction enterprise which could be retained by eBay, PWCC and consignors everywhere. I'll need a slogan though.:eek: |
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http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...p2471758.m4792 Only 17 on this one. http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...p2471758.m4792 22 http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...p2471758.m4792 Seems an odd way, to me, to go about trying to win an item for the lowest price, but what do I know. |
See below
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"Bid to da Lid wit ALIBLIE" Your can Call Your New Company "ALIBLIE" Although... Wit Your Honest Reputation, I Sincerely Doubt THaT You'll MaKe Any Ca$H at All! My Apologies Frank! I Nevar Really Like ta Turn Good Things Bad ~ Howevar, THiS iS fir Your Own Good ;) |
I realize this is dreaming the impossible dream; however, wish eBay would simply do away with bid retractions...period.
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My opinion is they need to chance how they are used. They should only be allowed if you place another bid on the item that is higher than the high bid is at that time. |
eBay should charge the bidder for each retraction. Have the amount increase each time. Place a limit on how many retractions you can have and then you are banned.
All sorts of things they can do, but will not. On that subject, I think if someone places a safety bid, it should automatically go to the next increment. If you want to bid higher than your initial amount, you should have to pay. It can be intimidating for some people to bid, knowing that someone who has the next three bids in a row could have bid a very high amount. It can limit the bidding, and the seller loses money. |
Holy bid retractions Batman, this is the second worst I have ever seen. http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...p2471758.m4792
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You guys don't know. These could be the non malicious kind of retractions.
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Over 500+ retractions.....I don't even know how to describe it......
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Less than 24 hours and already my trusted employee is outed.:eek::rolleyes::D |
Maybe we all are interpreting the 10 bid retraction rule incorrectly. Maybe you have to have at least 10 retractions to qualify to bid on PWCC auctions?
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Well, these days everything is 'fluid.' If you're a man, you can claim to be a woman. If you're white, you can claim to be black. If you're of European ancestry, you can claim to be Native American. Perhaps PWCC's bid retraction number is also fluid. If you have 500 retractions, they will simply claim it's only two.
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Thats efficiency !!
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But what could they really do with 99 cents . |
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http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibit...deanwormer.jpg |
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2000-SP-Auth.../401344328815?
High bidder had 11, third bidder 10. Placed days before the auction ended. |
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I just looked again and it's 802????:confused: I think someone has some issues?!?! :rolleyes: |
804 now
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So why isn't there something that can be done towards PWCC? This has been an ongoing topic for the last 8 or 9 years so where does it end? Will Ebay do anything? Good luck with that...
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The one with 800 retractions is not PWCC, it is/was a Probstein auction. Ebay doesn't care how many retractions a bidder makes so why would they do anything to PWCC. The 10 retraction rule is something PWCC said they would do. It has nothing to do with eBay.
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Serious question, does Ebay have a way of tracking people? Could I have twenty different accounts?
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Because there are people here that are obsessed with PWCC and finding fault with everything they do.
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It's comical that the same bullshit we all heard about Mastro ('If they were really doing anything wrong they would get arrested") is what we hear now about PWCC. Do you think that law enforcement is at the ready to investigate every fraud that exists in every corner of the country right now? Or perhaps they have priorities as to what they investigate? And do you really think that the great majority of PWCC defenders aren't either on the payroll, conspire with them or reap the benefits of the fraud that occurs in their auctions? Comeon man, don't play dumb. |
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Scott you are wrong, here's the cliffnotes version.
"In an absolute auction, the seller has agreed to sell for the highest bid, regardless of the amount offered. The role of the auctioneer is to ratify the contract formed between the buyer and the seller. ... Bids above the reserve are binding, with the high bid ratified by the auctioneer when he declares the item sold." |
I don't know if this was directed at me or Kevin but I have never consigned cards with any auction house or anyone that lists on eBay. I haven't bought anything from PWCC in over 4 months. I used to buy from them almost weekly. Yes, they have their issues but at least they are trying to do a little something. That is more than can be said for any other consignment company on eBay. eBay doesn't give a crap what bidders do.
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James I know significant ebay sellers who take lots of consignments who would not stand for any of the stuff that goes on in PWCC, they just don't talk about it in public forums.
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