1925 Gehrig Rookie Exhibits Card
 

Nice to see this card stretching its legs a little. With cross overs probably no more than 35 in existence. An important card from one of the greats of all time and scarce. Probably should be worth more than a PSA 8 Topps rookie card of some dude like Robin Yount or Jim Rice, but what the heck do I know.

I completely agree on the Gehrig. I think you mean to compare to a PSA 10 Yount or Rice though. Those two cards in an 8 are only worth 100-200 bucks.

Ah, yes meant to say 10. But was trying to make a ridiculous point in any event. I could probably buy every Gehrig rookie Exhibit in existence for what some of these 10s pull down.

Iguess the pop reports on that card are far from right, as PSA shows 1 graded and SGC shows none graded, yet I have 1. Pop reports on this card are worthless.

The last time I checked PSA and SGC had about 20 each, maybe 22. Not sure what you are looking at.

I recently purchased a SGC 10 on the Exhibit Gehrig Rookie--I am delighted to finally have this card---you don't see them too often---I also feel this card is ready for a big boast! Time will tell---Just happy I have mine.

Your right Steve. Just went back on PSA and SGC. Psa shows 1 graded 5 and 7 graded with qualifiers. SGC shows 21 graded. I don't know what I did the first time, but it was definately not right. Frank

PSA shows 28 graded as far as I can see.

The one that is a 5 is in the + row (which means it's a 5.5)...

Attachment 243494

Whatever the exact population it's a card that rarely comes up. 35k for an SGC 2 certainly shattered previous sale records. But I think it's still a card with upside potential. For a HOF RC collector it's pretty cool to have a Gehrig RC. Especially with the Ruth looking like it will never be affordable it's about as good as it gets for me.

Very tough card for sure, I do know one of the two PSA 5 was crossed to an SGC 60.

of the people who have posted, how many own one? don and jesse own one. scott and steve, do you as well?

I have 2. i think that's it unless I find one in the street somewhere.

I used to own one.
I bought a raw NR MT one from Mastro in a telephone auction while in Jamaica a long time ago. It came back a 5 and then ended up in a 6 holder. Some years later, at the time, I got a world record price for it from dear old Hal.....I think I paid 2700 and got 10k for it. It was when I was still doing rookie HOF'ers...Great card....

Wow, Leon, didn't know that you ever collected rookie HOF'ers....

Or postcards!

Yes I own one

Does this mean my W590 Gehrig rookie will also skyrocket?

York
 

I don't own one of the prized exhibits, but I have a pair of Type 2 York Caramel Lou Gehrig cards.
Often attributed to 1927, there is a solid argument to these actually being issued in 1928.
Could be the first standard sized "baseball card" for Lou.

*That is for purists who only collect *that * definition of a card, not the postcard sized Exhbits.

(I would absolutely agree that a card issued in 1925 should fetch more than a 1927 or 1928 though, and it does!)

I think the York Caramel has a big upside, it's pretty rare itself.
I guess the exhibit has far surpassed my budget , so it's my hope anyway!

I recall when everyone was freaking out about the $10,750 spent on an SGC 30 Gehrig in the November 2015 Heritage Auction. That very buyer bought my (then) 1923 Type I Press Photo that uses the same image used on the '25 Exhibit. I'm kicking myself a little for selling it, but money talks. Money would probably talk louder if selling that very photo in late 2016. Oh well!

Can it be that some of our new investors are really getting knowledgeable about the hobby??? On a more serious note, yes, this is a (relatively) rare, tremendously significant card that will substantially appreciate over time. Wish I still had mine.

Best to all,

Larry

Gehrig 1925 Exhibit
 

Hey Guys, Just wanted to know what you think of the 1925 Exhibit Gehrig rookie? Do you think it is time to sell? I have one PSA 5 and with the recent auction showing 30K plus, may be good time. Any recommendation would be appreciated. Thanks Rhino

Hello new poster,
Yes, its a good time. There is a PSA 3 currently in auction and its at 44k, with 17 days left.
Partial Context from Auction Description:

1925 gehrig exhibit
 

Sorry for delay, just learning to navigate. So 45k now brings it to 60k conservatively. A psa5 in the 75k range...ish. Yes its far from the $$$ I paid in '94. Man, or do I sit on it a year and wait for one of these psycho spoiled new millennium generation investors to pay me ten ZILLION dollars.

Oh, By the way. Thanks for the auction info.

The PSA 3 Gehrig in Memory Lane auction is at 53K with the juice----there seems to be a lot of interest in the Gehrig the last few months---I think it is really shooting up---this auction should set the standard---I think all grades will be in high demand at next years National.

I am surprised no one has mentioned that it is rumored the population report on this card may actually be inflated due to psa mistakenly slabbing the very similar 1926 Gehrig in a 1925 holder. The tint on the two cards are different and Gehrig's name is in a box on the '25, but the rumor is some 26s ended up in '25 holders.
I own a rough psa 1, but I am glad I got it before it started sky-rocketing.

I would be very careful about setting standard pricing on a sale or two. I think this card can be manipulated like the rest. I am not saying it is in the Goodwin auction but things have looked weird in auctions before. If I were in the market for buying one I would probably be cautious. I used to own a raw one that graded a 5 then bumped to a 6...many years back. Got it in a Mastro auction where they said it was NRMT. It wasn't but was still a great card.

When I was at the National, I saw this one in one of the Memory Lane showcases marked at 60k I believe. It was owned by an employee of Memory Lane I was told. Interesting that the Ebay listing has now got taken down which the asking price was 75k. Then a different one pops up in the Memory Lane auction with road rash on it and it received like 28 bids in the first couple of days. I bet the employee of Memory Lane is Very excited to see all that action on the lesser grade 25 Gehrig.

Current Memory Lane 25 Gehrig

Huh? The ebay listing for the 4MK happens to have been my listing which I ended on 12/27. Nothing too interesting about my listing ending other than my decision to no longer offer the card for sale. Memory Lane's auction opened on 12/23 so their Gehrig did not just pop up after my ebay listing was ended.

Was your Gehrig 4MK on display in the Memory Lane booth at National? When I said popped up, I was referring to the the road rash Gehrig in the current Memory Lane auction. I know your 4MK Gehrig has been on Ebay for months as I was tracking it. It's a nice card. Now, If your 4MK Gehrig was not at the National being displayed, then I'm thinking of another different one.

My 4MK is the only qualified 4 and no it was not at any National, ever. First time it was seen by the public was when I listed it on eBay.

Would you guys go Auction, Ebay, or try to find a private buyer for my 1925 Gehrig PSA5? Of the Auction Houses, who are the better ones to deal with?

Would do VERY well as a featured lot in the next Love of Game Auction.

In my experience, you will get the best price in one of the high end auction houses. They will take the time and effort to properly market your card

With a PSA 5 Gehrig, no matter where you list the card, it will get a record price---how about showing us a scan--I would love to see your card--a very high grade---The highest I have seen is a 3

Ok great. Glad to know it's a different example. I thought it was the same card and y'all are both from California. I didnt recall the MK or no MK on the one at the National as it was a nice card. So, Memory Lane has one up for auction now, and then one of the employees has another personal one (which I saw at the National).

I think Orlando and I bought the last two 25 Gehrig cards that were listed on EBay within the last year not counting the one that was just pulled down from you.

To respond to the best way of selling these cards I would say to consign to an advertiser of the Net54 board and maybe work on receiving a part of the buyers fee back. I've used Heritage in the past and they even used one or two of my cards as their cover. Plus I've used PWCC. LOTG I will most likely try next as it's good to spread the consignments around. I believe most AHs all have pretty much the same mailing list and the coverage should be about the same.

This is not a rumor. I have definitely seen some 1926 Gehrig's in 1925 holders for both PSA and SGC. You have to be careful as they look exactly the same except for the color tints. The 1925 version should be gray while the 1926 one is light blue. The 1926 card is actually much rarer than the 1925 one, but of course the 1925 one is selling for much higher prices these days. The strange thing about the Memory Lane one currently at auction is that it looks greenish colored, not sure that's due to the lighting or what.

For example, the card on the left looks like a proper 1925 Exhibits, but the one on the right looks light bluish, so probably a 1926 Exhibits. Again, it's possible that the color tint looks different when seeing in person, but everyone should be very careful.

Great examples of two killer cards! So, I guess today's lesson is to buy the card and not the holder?

why would the presumption be that there were many more 1925 exhibits manufactured than 1926 exhibits for those with the white box both years (like the gehrig)?

wouldn't it be more likely that the manufacturing runs in both years were much more equal than what the pop reports reflect -- hardly any 1926 exhibits? the feedback i've heard is that even experienced graders find it difficult to distinguish between a '25 and '26 exhibit (e.g., scott mt. joy cited this in previous posts on this subject), meaning the tint distinction you are referring to is ambiguous in many instances...so graders likely defaulted over time to calling almost all exhibits over this 2 year period 1925 exhibits either out of ignorance that a 2 year manufacturing run existed or they were following the pop distribution.

the upshot is for those who think they have a gehrig rookie because that's what the flip says, it's up in the air whether they have a first year or second year issue. you can draw your own conclusions for the impact on the value of the card depending on whether you believe the two years can be clearly distinguished.

My 1925 is clearly black and white. And if the 26's have a bluish tint to them, as it has been espoused, I can tell you I own a 1926-29 Exhibits Gehrig Portrait which has an unmistakeable blue tint. If they used the same blue tint on the '26 exhibits as they did on the 26-29, this is extremely easy to distinguish in-hand. I say "in-hand," because in photos of the 26-29 gehrig pose the blue isn't very pronounced at all. It is very different story in-hand.

James, take a look at this thread: Link.

Although some players in the 1926 Exhibits set can only be distinguished from their 1925 counterparts by color tint (e.g., Gehrig, Ruth), others can be more easily catalogued because of "box" vs "no box." Even for these players which have the easily distinguishable "no box," the population reports consistently show fewer 1926 Exhibits compared to the same player for 1925.

that's helpful, thx Gary

As Gary said the 1926 set is many times harder. IMO the 1926 standard set was cut short because of the popularity of the 1926-29 PC set, this short print makes it the toughest exhibit set to complete (the 1933 set is close just has a lot less cards needed).

Also the 26 blue is very different than the color used on the 1926-29 PC exhibits, examples below-

Examples-
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n...psjofvf7aa.jpg
1925
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps4rdwztjt.jpg
1926
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n...psok8phrre.jpg
1926-29 Blue
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n...psf22uyesu.jpg

Scott, great examples and thanks for sharing. So, it sounds like you cant go wrong with either the 1925 or 1926 Gehrig exhibit. Reminds me of Mantle rookies. 1951 Bowman vs 1952 Topps.

Ummmm...no. 51 and 52 Mantles were issued by different companies. 25 and 26 Exhibit Gehrigs were issued by the same company, which is like a 54 Topps Aaron and a 55 Topps Aaron.

Ummmmm no? 1952 Topps Mantle was a SP as was the 1926 Exhibit Gehrig. So both the 1925 Gehrig and the 1951 Bowman Mantle were produced more than their counterparts in the 1926 Exhibit Gehrig and the 1952 Topps Mantle.

Rarity doesn't always equal to more valuable though. Don't want to get off topic though.

1952 Topps Mantle was a DP, hence Type 1 and Type 2

Yes true. Plus there are rumors it could be a triple print.

But the 1925 is his rookie and needless to say, that is thenGehrig I want

Gehrig Rookie
 

Don,

With all due respect to its 1926 peer, the 1925 Rookie is THE Gehrig everybody wants! 👍

I agree. That is what I said

The Exhibit Lou Gehrig Rookie is now up to 60K with the juice in Memory Lane

would want to know who bought the card to truly evaluate the sale in my mind...but maybe not everyone elses

Jake the auction has 2 more weeks to go---I think it will go higher

This is a (excuse me) a PSA3!!!!!!
I would have more expected a Mantle RC reach that before a Gehrig RC P/C.
I don't recall a 1952 Mantle PSA 3 selling for 60K have we??
Will propel even higher prices?? Or is it another attempt from the buyers group?
Edit: I forgot we don't talk about the 'buyers group' :D

Chris this is a tough comparison --I like both cards, but again, it is the Gehrig Rookie and not many of them in pop reports----Which card would I buy right now----The Gehrig---

I was looking for a Gehrig RC before the 'burst' or 'explosion'
Missed out on it, and now be one card off my RC list.
It finally got its 'glory' as deserving a card it is.

I would hate to either miss out on something like the '25 Gehrig going up or try to catch this falling rock. There have been some spiked prices lately. Maybe Ken needs to do more advertising? Or maybe there is something entirely different going on, who knows anymore? I got nothing....:cool: btw, I love the '25 Gehrig card......

1955 Topps Roberto Clemente Rookie #164 PSA 8 NM-MT

https://goldinauctions.com/LotDetail...entoryid=25991
Goldin Auction Final Price $52,675.00
10/29/2016

http://www.goodwinandco.com/LotDetai...entoryid=33086
Goodwin Auction Final Price $150,391.20
7/1/2016

http://www.goodwinandco.com/LotDetai...entoryid=32566
Goodwin Auction Final Price $146,803.20
6/10/2016

.

Maybe one buyer with deep pockets deciding to invest in these?

Maybe a very high hidden reserve on the current one?

OUCH! :eek:

I should probably mention the advertising reference to Goldin Auctions was more of an inside joke than anything. That being said, they and I are in talks about them advertising in the future.
The thing that is hopefully shown is how things can change so quickly (as a best case scenario). I would be more concerned over scarcer issues being manipulated. I have no idea if any recent price is real market or not, but a '25 Gehrig vs a '52 Mantle vs. a '63 Rose, the latter being the quintessential case of manipulation, from what it looked like to me. I think the former would be easier to manipulate. (ONLY being devil's advocate for discussion....) I do love the Gehrig and maybe it is the next Ty Cobb back :)

.

My "OUCH" comment was for the severe price drop with that Clemente card, Leon, not your comment about the person named Ken, if that is what you were thinking?

Im so glad I caught this thread. Im going to sell my 1925 exhibit psa 5. If a three goes for 60k. Im guessing my psa5 should reach 100. Just got to find the right auctioneer. Any suggestions? Ive used Lelands, very professional, but this was twenty years ago. If you guys could just give me your top 2 or 3 who you have used, I would really appreciate it. Oh, I do not think I want to ebay it.

Rhino I asked before, how about showing a scan of what your Gehrig looks like---I think you will do well with any major auction house

X2.

I don't think there is a member on here who wouldn't appreciate seeing that.

If it's your personal choice, for some reason not to, then no worries.:)

Show a scan which will only help it when/if it goes to auction. Keep in mind with the current auction there could be a hidden reserve and only one bidder. Plus, if the card is actually sold, then the high bidder will have one and might not want to drop 60-100k in a second one. The under bidder (if exists) is very important as they might be the one who benefits with the next auction of one of these. Ok, auction houses that come to mind in no order is Heritage, REA, Mile High, LOTG and Goodwin. I also own a high grade example of one of these which I bought before grading was around as it came from Lipset auction catalog back in the 90s.

I don't know why Rhino will not sure a scan of the Gehrig Rookie---We are all interested----as to Auction houses, I have only used 2 on my cards and Memory Lane is one---I would suggest Memory Lane, The write up they did on Gehrig was fantastic and explains a lot about the card---I believe they don't have reserves ( I know I never had one) it goes whatever the high bid is---this card is certainly drawing plenty of interest and time will tell on the ending price---I know that the collectors that have a Gehrig Rookie will certainly be watching.

On the 1925 v 1926 scarcity question, it not only is true of baseball, it is true of boxing and even nonsports. The company seemed to operate in two or three year design cycles with the later cards in the cycle scarcer. I believe that there was some overlap and reprinting too so that the earlier cards are double or triple printed as compared to the late sets. That is why assembling a 1921 set is easy compared to a 1923 set. The other issue is set duration. ESCO advertised its product as offering a new set every 60 days. So it is possible that the sets perceived as shorts may simply not have been available as long as the others.

For 1925 the set was a new design and 1926 was the second year. So the 1925 just plain seems easier, though some of that may be a confusion factor with the reused design on some cards. It can be a very subtle difference. Candidly I have difficulty distinguishing them except side by side.

Adam, is there a chance that they (sopia, green tint, blue tint, etc..) all be distributed both in 1925 and 26? Did Exhibits change every month or so with different variables of making them? If yes, then what was the reason?

Hey guys, I will scan for you. Have to go to the box. It is a nice card. I lucked out in the late 90s. Got it at a Jersey show. Same guy had an autographed one also. Wish I got em both. The non autographed one is way more valuable....crazy. Made the right choice.

The design for each year was the same in 21-24, 25-26 and then 27-28, though there is evidence from the boxing side that the 1928 design carried into 1929 (the boxing cards have records and copyright dates on their backs and there are fight records with late 1928 or even early 1929 bouts listed on 1928 copyrighted cards, indicating that the cards were issued into 1929), which I think is true with baseball too since I find the 1928s easier than the 1927s. I think they milked a design as far as they could by reusing as much art as they could, then redesigned when sales dropped. The reuse is evident in cards like the 1921 and 1923 Ruth, which is basically the same card with and without a border. It seems that the first design cycle was four years, 1921-24,, then they went to two year cycles. That suggests to me that they found the sales drop-off unacceptable after about two years. It also suggests that there may have been a shorter window on the later issues in a cycle simply because the kiddies stopped buying the cards and the company quickly redesigned.

Further evidence of flow is found in oddball sets, sample cards, and publicity material. In terms of sets, the PCL set has a 1928 design:

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibit...%20averill.jpg

Here is a 1928 MLB card:

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibit...8%20Frisch.jpg

Same design. I believe the PCL set predated the 1928 set because of a quirk on the card backs. The PCL season started earlier than the MLB season. The 1928 MLB set is found blank backed or with a printed PC back with a coupon on a corner. Every so often you can find a 1927 (green tint) MLB card with a coupon, but the coupon is a stamp, not a printed back:

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibit...pon%20back.jpg

When the PCLs have coupons they are of the stamped variety. That tells me that ESCO started experimenting with the coupon program in 1927 and went all in on it in 1928-30, when it expanded to other issues as well, like boxing and entertainment:

1928 copyrighted back boxing card:

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibit...%20%20back.jpg

Yakima Canutt western card:

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibit...0Jones%201.jpg

Here is a 1930 catalog page stating that all of the series now have a coupon:

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibit...atalog%205.jpg

Stating that the cards 'now' have coupons in a 1930 catalog when we have copyrighted 1928 cards with coupons suggests that they rolled out the coupon program over the course of a few years. I suspect that as they redesigned the cards they added coupons. The implication of that rolling promotion is that the company ran with old designs as long as it could and redesigned when it had to, and thinking of sets as annuals is not necessarily accurate. Since baseball is a good seller and later baseball in each cycle seems tougher, I suspect the baseball issue dates were not set in stone as they seem to be with Topps but were part of the ongoing work flow.

Then there are the sample cards, which tell us more about the issue cycle:

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibit...n%20sample.jpg

These tell you flat out when the sets were issued. Now, here's a 1925 sample card of Pancho Villa, a HOF boxer:

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibit...20back%202.jpg

It has a 1925 copyright date and tells you there are 96 cards in the set, i.e., three sheets. However, I've cataloged more than that in the 1925 boxing set, which means that the company rejiggered its issues mid-stream (other variations also suggest tinkering). And bear in mind that the boxing cards have printed backs with copyrights from 1921-28, so there is no uncertainty about which card is from which set. There are also some cards that are a lot tougher to find than others even in the copyrighted supposedly three sheet 1925 set. That just screams SP cards replacing other cards on later printings.

Here is a sample card from the 1950s with a baseball checklist:

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibit...ist%20card.jpg

It lists Salutation cards of Feller Williams and Joe DiMaggio alongside cards of players like Berra and Hodges. The Salutations set is treated as a 1939-47 set and the 'typical' postwar set is treated as a 1947-66 issue. Wrong. Clearly, there were cards carried across years. Hell, here is an uncut sheet showing Colavito with Detroit and Ted Williams Salutation:

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibit...xcut311081.JPG

The Rock went to Detroit after the 1959 season.

The publicity material adds another dimension but it is subtle; I didn't pick it up for a while. Here is a portion of a catalog from the early 1950s:

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibit.../June27_10.jpg

It has the 32-card HOF set for sale. I have seen later mail order sheets that also list the HOF set. That set is considered a 1948 set in the Hobby. Plainly it was multi-year and the conventional wisdom is wrong: the company ran it until sales fell off. It also has 33 cards due to a Ruth SP second card, not 32 cards. My hunch is that when the Babe died the company pulled a card and added in the second Ruth card to capitalize on the publicity. I suspect that this was not the only instance where cards carried through multiple years. In boxing, where I have researched this extensively, the set counts only work with multiple year carryover. And, as Scott stated above, designs were reused such that a later cycle 'set' may be in large part composed of reprinted cards from a year or more before.

Bottom line, thinking of the ESCO issues as discrete, evenly spaced sets like modern Topps issues is not accurate. The company ran with a set as long as it sold, and reused images whenever it could.

Great post, Adam. That is fabulous info....

Yes agreed...great post Adam and I will read your post a couple of times. I basically get that the Exhibit company didn't have any consistent way of doing things. It would be great if we discovered the size of print runs they did on all their cards (boxers, baseball, football, actors, actresses, etc...). Adam, will you be publishing a book or article any time soon as you are a wealth of knowledge!

Great stuff as always Adam. Funny you mention the HOF set as I agree it was released over a few years. I also believe it started in 1949 as I have an 1949 exhibit catalog that list it as a new series (and its been dated as the 1949). I also have a 1950 order form where HOF cards are listed (you can also see the Sports Champion set is dropped from it). You can also see they use a salutation as the example card for 1949 Baseball Stars-

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n...rtsCloseUp.jpghttp://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n...ist-Page03.jpghttp://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n...ist-Page01.jpg

1950 Order listing HOF (also not noted as new)
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n...Form-Front.jpghttp://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n...rForm-Back.jpg

Or maybe the investor crowd is starting to leave the field?

Best to all,

Larry

So cool reading about the exhibits and Exhibits Supply Co. One of you guys has to write the book on this. Amazing history. Call it "The Company that Sold the Most Baseball Cards (and Every Other Kind of Card Imaginable)".

I've been gathering data for a while now for an exhibit book. The problem is drawing the line of where to cut it off. I want to cover all sports at the least. I am thinking that would be volume 1.

I hope you do Adam, your website was one of the first references on exhibits I used, I still enjoy browsing it. I also use your Boxing Card book all the time, it's the best resource book by far!