Will anyone be giving a blow-by-blow account from the National this year?
 

Know in the past there has been a thread set up to do that. Sorry if I just missed it, but since I can't be there, would like to see any uploads of photos or videos shot while there.

Thanks, attendees. Good luck.

Yeah I'd like to see/hear if there's anything interesting.

Ditto!

The Bill Simmons reports from his Grantland days are good reads!

http://grantland.com/features/2014-n...rs-convention/

Alright, so here is a brief (i mean long) summary of tonight and what I saw in a quick 2 hour tour (new baby, so getting out was a homerun from the wife). I usually spend nearly 2 full days browsing, this was 2 hours:

1). I collect 1933 Goudeys and 1934 Goudey Gehrig's, but have learned so much from you all the past year, so I was more up to speed on stuff I saw. Overall, very disappointed with the overall 1933 selection. One guy, though, had the market cornered on the medium end 1933 and 1934 Ruth/Gehrig, with a few higher end ones as well. I bought a 1934 Gehrig from him. Aside from him and the auction houses of course, i saw one 1933 yellow Goudey Ruth 7 for sale and that was it. Last year I saw 1 Gehrig sgc 7/84 1934 which I bought on the last day. Outside of auction houses, this higher end stuff harder to Find, I have to be honest, in 1933/1934 Goudey.

2). I saw one guy who just owned the Caramel Cards. The red ones. He had a lot of them, so if you are looking for those, they will be there. Same with the 206 stuff. I saw those a lot. I sort of feel like an outsider not collecting those on this forum.

3). There is a very big dealer who has a very big table every year. I was very disappointed with his Gehrig/Ruth selection from my 2 years to now. He must have sold most of his stuff and is unwilling to replenish at current prices. Also it seems like the 1933 Gehrig isn't appreciating at the lower-mid range like some other cards. I dont love this card, hence my move to 1934 ones.

4). Lots of chatter--remember I was there for 2 hours so it's relative-- about the increase in price of some Koufax and Clmente and Mantles. Like the guys that have been around a long time --not me obviously-- are sort of dumbfounded. Not sure how many of those guys are you guys on the board. (I was wearing an obnoxiously bright orange Rafael Nadal shirt today, in case I met some of you. ). So i am not sure if they echo your sentiment, or it was your sentiment expressed in person.

5). I wanted to pull the trigger on some modern wax boxes: 1983 topps baseball and maybe 1985 fleer baseball. Because 83 was one year before I started to collect, and I always liked 1983 and 1984 topps cards. It seemed that that early to mid-80s stuff is sort of getting into a sweet spot. It wasn't cheap, but not expensive either. But i would venture to guess it has appreciated as well recently. I was surprised how much I wanted this stuff, but I didn't buy any of it. You could convince me to spend like $10,000 on this stuff and vault it for 7 years and double or triple your money as guys like me get nostalgic.

6). I don't know how the modern guys do it. My eyes glaze over, and there is just no way to easily display everything. As a Cubs fan, I wanted a Contreras and a Baez card, but I was so confused as to why something was $15 vs $60 vs $100 and didn't even grt into the 4-figure stuff. Its also so damn hard to display that I cant find anything easily. It's like a supermarket where the beer is shelved next to the swiffers and then the next aisle has the swiffer next to the pet food with the beer on the farthest aisle. None of it makes sense, and it's never in the same place twice. It gives me a headache to try to get to the bottom of it all and get organized. One guy has an awesome assortment of 2010-2016 baseball unopend boxes which I love, but I need someone to explain which one to buy to get a shot at my favorite Cubs best cards. Kris Bryant. Kris Bryant. Kris Bryant. It almost makes me want to barf how much stuff people have of his, except he's not a Yankee.......yet. So I will keep my food down for the time being.

7). People were dragging, wondering how they were going to make it to 8 pm I heard this on multiple tables. So not sure what their day looked like before 4 pm when it opened to public, but multiple people were tired by 7:30-ish.

8). Random story of the day: some dudes seemed to be travelling with a bunch of Joe Namath rookies. Not sure why. Only told this second hand, then I saw them and confirmed it.

9). This is my third national. Two years ago I saw so much of my dad's 1950s-1960s cards that I figured they'd never go up. So take these comments with a grain of salt. I will say that the third time around, I have gone from overwhelmed and bright eyed to a bit more of a steely assassin, and I don't know how I feel about that. I didn't buy a vintage Cubs pennant or a Northwestern University mini silk thingy and I would have in prior years.

10). There seem to be a ton of like 1978/1979 Topps baseball boxes. The white ones with red and blue. Was there some sort of case break in that in last few years? Lotsa authenticated boxes going from $1200 to $1600. I saw two 1986 Fleer Basketball unopened boxes.

11). Garbage Pail Kids are sort of my dirty little secret, and I only saw one Series 2 authenticated box about 10% premium to ebay prices. There was the occasional pack of Series 3 and 14, but not much else. I bet none of you give a flying you knw what about that.

Ok, sorry if this rambled. This is just my view from the cheap seats.

Thanks for the update, Tennis13. Much appreciated...

+1 Thanks for posting, Tennis!

.

Tennis13, actually, your observation on item #13 (Garbage Pail Kids) was well received here, as I have a 11 year old godson who has been collecting them for the past 4-5 years. So he will appreciate the update. Who knows, maybe on my next return trip to a mid-west National, I will bring him along and together we can hunt GPK packs and cards :-)

One of my biggest regrets is not pulling trigger on a series 1 box on ebay in 2002 for $600.

+2 great observations

+3. I wonder what the Joe Namath "group" was doing?? Are they trying to sell them? How many did they have?

I didn't personally see the stack. I saw the guys. I was told 30. But I don't have personal confirmation.

Finally another tennis fan (I'm a teaching pro)..

Great account of the national and thanks!

id guess the joe namath group is doing the same thing as the sandy koufax group and the roberto clemente group!!!!

A lot of effort went into your post, Tennis13. Especially after spending time on the floor at Nationals. I enjoyed reading it. Thank you.

Joe

No problem. I was a journalism major in college, so I just cranked it out in between waiting tables.......I love going to the national and given that I work in finance, I am so curious about the market segmentation that seems to be occuring. The ability to restrict supply in some of these cards is so intriguing to watch.

I decided not to go for the first time since I got back into collecting four years ago, and I have a bit of regret, so I will have to live vicariously through these posts. Hopefully others will paint as colorful a picture as Tennis.

Interesting comment on the Goudeys. I've been trying to assemble mid grade HoF sets for both 33 and 34, and I'm finding the available supply to be a lot less comparable to other issues. Whether it's the major AHs, PWCC, or everyday eBay offerings, it just seems that not a lot is popping up.

That said, great pick-up on that Gehrig. Really nice looking for the grade!

I enjoyed the post. Ramble on!

Great post; thank you Tennis13 :)

Regarding the Namath RC, it's another card that seems to be being manipulated. Between PWCC, Heritage, Mile High, Memory Lane, and maybe some other recent auctions, I have never seen so many PSA 7/8/9s offered over so short a period.


Steve

Was there when it opened at 10 and left the show around 1. It was nice to see and chat with Glyn P.,Scott B., Richard M., and Bill Z. of Shoebox cards. Walked right by many tables of modern and 50' and 60' topps tables. I was only really interested in looking at 19th century and pre-war. Which there was a decent amount of I thought. When I say "look" that's all I did. Didn't buy a thing.

Enjoyed chatting with the boys at REA. Brian D. is always a class-act. He immediately handed me a Net54 pin, which is really cool and well done. I did find some dealers and some auction house employees rude. Especially, when you are considering consigning something and are asking them a question and they can't even focus on you. Even striking up conversations with passersby.

Definitely quality material of all era's of baseball on the floor.

Didn't someone post a fake Namath Rookie on the board that was in a PSA holder? I'd be concerned if someone was offering me Namath rookie cards in high grade and large quantity. This same thing happened at one of the early National's when the Rose rookie was first hot and someone made some really convincing fakes. Several dealers bought them and were offering them at their tables. Later it was discovered they were fakes. Several dealers lost some pretty good money. I've seen some of these Rose rookies still floating around with FAKE stamped across the back.

I'm a big customer service grumpy old man and Brian blew me away. I was talking via with him via email about consigning a T205 common in NM 7 with REA. I walk up to the table with the card out and Brian walks over and says "Scott Russell!" Like we're old friends. We've never met, he just knew by the card I was holding who I must be. Now how many people was he expecting to meet this weekend? I didn't have a time set up or anything, he just pays that much attention to customer service. In my mind I hadn't committed to consigning it until that moment. That was a deal-maker as opposed to so many in the hobby who treat you so poorly that it's a deal-breaker. AND he remembered to give me my pin even though I forgot to ask for it!

Kept missing Brent at PWCC, but talked to a couple other guys with them. I was helping a friend consign a gorgeous 86 fleer basketball set and 79 Topps hockey set a PSA 8 1965 Mantle and a PSA 7 Seaver Rookie. I had talked with Brent about it all via email, but the other guys at the booth were great. I gotta say they do seem honestly passionate about trying to do the right thing and they do understand that being the only guys who have ebay's ear is a very big deal. Felt very good after walking away from them

PSA had a huge line for submissions, SGC was looking for something to do.

Hmmm the only guy I know at SGC was at someone else's booth when I walked by. I called his name just to let him know I was there and he gave me the "just a minute" finger (I double checked because I often get the other finger) and that was fine, I didn't expect him to stop what he was doing to come talk to me. So I waited patiently. He finished talking to the guy and then turned his back on me and walked away. This is a guy who has been courting my business for several months now, trying to convince me to switch my grading from PSA to SGC. Guess not.

Bumped into a bunch of guys I know and even gave someone an intro to Net54.

All in all a good time.

For those that went today, how was the selection of Jackie Robinson cards/items? Was hoping to go today, but I wasn't able to make it. Debating on going tomorrow.

Scott,

I'd like to meet you. I'm Scott as well, last name Levy. My dad and I are more collectors than dealers but nonetheless would like to say hi. I'm at booth 900 tomorrow (at least until 2pm). Then I have to get back to my real job.

Best
Scott Levy

Sorry man I was a one and done this time. Wish I had known where more N54 guys were.

Easy solution:

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Do my show in Jim Thorpe this November!

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i wonder what condition the cards were in...but i was surprised at the large POP for that card..i assumed it would be far less...

I've had a great time hanging out with collectors (net54 and non) thus far -- everyone is in great spirits. Wednesday and Thursday seemed a little slow, but it's sure to pick up with the big autograph names showing up for the weekend days. I'm not a (paying) autograph collector, so it doesn't make a difference to me.

The floor area is nice and wide open, although I wish booth numbers and dealer names were more prominently displayed...it helps for jotting down notes.

I've bought exactly one card thus far...for the most part, these are the highest prices I've seen at a National, but maybe it's just what I'm looking at. Several times I've seen cards I've wanted, but their sticker prices are literally 3x what the dealer paid for them either on ebay or a major auction house in the past 6 months. It's hard to start a negotiation when a real price is so much lower than the sticker. Then again, kudos to people that actually list prices on their cards?? Catch 22.

I've also noticed that PSA's line is literally an hour plus wait for the entire day...and SGC is a ghost town. Not a good sign for the state of competition.

One of the more interesting things I've seen is the dealer who had a stacked full case of 60's decade Mantles...all raw. He was happy that he had sold over 200 Mantles already, mostly to dealers. Doesn't seem to care that he's leaving money on the table...the collector that I was with explained that this dealer doesn't believe in grading. I'm sure the dealers buying those Mantles do though...

The Jumbo Wagner is on display...some people may think "seen one, seen em all", but I always enjoy seeing a Wagner...especially one so nice.

I'll write more tomorrow. Are there any particular details people would like reports about?

Cheers,
Steve

Interesting. Thanks Steve

sounds similar to last year....i know last day the line was fast to PSA..like a 5-10 minute wait if people stay that long....


as far as prices of dealers..its about not having to wait for an auction to a buy a card if in fact the card is available...dealers have to buy cards so they cant sell them for what they paid for them obviously...will always be a markup...

......in a bull market.

The show seems to have less dealers than usual. And the crowd so far has been less, but I did notice more young kids there than at other nationals. I didn't see the SCP booth, but the other auction houses were represented, although Heritage is not able to put their name up at their booth for legal reasons. They are giving free appraisals at their very large booth.

Anyone at the national is welcome to join us for dinner on Friday, Aug 5th at Wingcraft Kitchen & Beer Bar. It's right across from the convention center. We will be there soon after the show ends at around 6:30 pm - 7 pm. Just ask for the Net54 collectors group if you don't see/know someone from Net54.

http://www.wingcraftac.com/

i looking for a nice mid grade 1952 topps or rookie leaf jackie robinson

well as you probably know most of the dealers dont have to sell...they can wait for the next bull market if the market goes down...no reason to sell at a loss.....you can see listings on ebay for 10 years for example..

Some good Jackie items available
 

I heard a 1953 Canadian Exhibit Green tint was sold. Matt C. of The Post Game Show had about 75 Jackie items at his booth, which as a Jackie collector, was pretty impressive. Saw a couple Bond Bread Jackies: Running Down Basepath (with a fake signature in blue pen on the bottom left corner),a PSA 1 Leaping with Scoreboard in Back, and the fielding one where he's standing on the bag (forget the technical name off the top of my head).

Prices on Jackie were relatively high, but there were definitely deals to be had.

My first National, so totally overwhelmed, but I loved every minute of it. Especially talking Brooklyn Dodgers with the generation who lived through those golden years. So cool.

Sweet, thanks for the heads up! Wish I was there for that Green Tint. Had one and sold it a few years ago. Incredibly tough to find. Might just have to make the trip down there tomorrow.

(long-winded recap coming below. One of my degrees was journalism as well - but I never really did well in the editing class)

After missing last year in Chicago, we did the National as the back end of a pseudo family vacation - it started in Secaucus Sunday night, meandered through the Yankees/Mets at Citi Field on Monday, on a boat out to the Statue of Liberty on tuesday, down to AC on Wednesday with a detour to the Borgata with a 10 hour session in the card room Wedneday Night/Thursday Morning and finally to the convention center today.

I really enjoyed Cleveland a couple of years ago. It was a day trip and it was my first one - so we spent 2 full days walking the show. Maybe the the newness has worn off after being to one of them, but it was much less enjoyable today.

1.) I spent the first 90 minutes in line for PSA. I had 3 cards that I wanted to get slabbed (55 Koufax, 54 Kaline, 55 Robinson). I have the PSA 6 Koufax but wanted the other one slabbed as well (probably 2.5-3). I think Kaline and Robinson would be 3-3.5. I know that it is largely a waste of money to get lower grade cards slabbed - but if it was ever time to sell them off, I prefered the comfort of knowing a solid price as I usually get flaws pointed out and lowballed when selling, and then the same card would have its centering and virtues emphasized when it works its way into dealer inventory. I'd prefer to take the guess work out even if it calls for some extra investment up front. I also had 2 cards that needed reholdered - 56 Red Shoendienst and 33 Goudey Lloyd Waner. Red fell in my safe and the slab opened up. Waner was damaged when I opened up the box from the submission - it was packed so tightly and so well that when I finally got the scissors in, they scratched the plastic - right on the face.

I waited for 90 minutes and had a nice guy who wanted to talk the entire time. And by entire, I mean every possible second. He was a low talker and I couldn't hear about 80% of what he said, so I just laughed a lot. Very nice fellow, just more line talking that what I was hoping for. The boys finally jumped out of line and went and walked the show because they were worn out by him as well.

When I finally got up there, I was informed that they would reholder Red, but they needed to regrade it as well for $40. It is a $25-$30 card in PSA 6. I told her that their holder popped open. She said that they are sonically sealed and incapable of opening - thus I must have opened it and they cannot be sure that it is the actual card - plus it might have been damaged when removed. I decided against it - so now, I need to either deal with it or find another one. What's worse is that there is an open PSA case that I was hoping to put back into their property, but when she accused me of trying to put the slide on a $30 card, I decided against grading services today (plus it was 48 hour turnaround and we are leaving tomorrow - so for $40 onsite grading plus insurance to ship back, it was definitely not worth it).

2.) whew, so 90 minutes in, a rough conversation wtih PSA and now time to walk the show. I agree with comments above, it did seem smaller than Cleveland - even though I believe that there were similar amounts of rows. I had a black Austin 3:16 shirt on today and I got a lot of fun comments. I am folically challenged, so I was getting a lot of WWE circa '96 references. Lots of good times! It was nice seeing Pat & Kevin Savage, Zimp & Wayne (and luckily they were right next to each other). I missed some of the dealers from 2 years ago. I like looking at the pieces from the auction houses, but it was just observation - it would be nice if they put them all together in one section.

3) Speaking of shiny stuff... count me as someone who doesn't understand the case brake phenomenon. They are continually at the mic chatting. People are excited and celebrating the "pulls" and I am not quite sure what the celebration is about. It just creates noise. The food court was always packed full - seats were hard to come by. But with the case break pavilion and the food court, it looked like about a fourth of the convention center was wasted before they actually started selling the cards.

4.) The manufactuers area in the center seems to be a lot of unprodcutive space. Again, because I don't do modern stuff - except for a new set for the boys every year (more on that later) - So, it is square footage that is unproductive for me - along with the AH displays and the case break area - basically 1/3 to 1/2 of the space I just gloss over and run right through -except for getting to make a baseball card with Topps.

5.) The material is always great. Besides seeing the lucky 7 4.5 Cobb and the 4 Wagner, the coolest table I saw was one that had tons and tons of T206 Cobbs, Matty's, Youngs, Johnsons, etc. He also had a bunch of 33 Ruths, Gehrigs, just beautiful, amazing inventory. He was selling the full Ruth run in PSA 6 for 58,000. He was selling a 4 Cobbs as a set as well. He had 3 52 Mantles with the PSA 5 going for 115,000. A different income stratesphere, but it was breathtaking for me looking at all of them there.

6.) I am always impressed with the amount of material at Levi's table. I think that if I had unlimited funds and the ability to pay a super premium that would require me to take a terrible hit if I ever had to liquidate, I could probably fill every single thing on my current want list.

7.) I spoke with Scott at Just Collect. He is a super nice guy. I really wanted to say hey to Leighton as he gave Conner a T-Shirt and a T206 card a couple of years ago when he discovered pre-war, but he wasn't there at the time. It was probably something that he doesn't even remember but it left such an impact on me and Conner and I wanted to thank him personally. I saw Scott last year at the Robert Morris show in Pittsburgh and related the story - and he recalled it as I was explaining why I was looking for Leighton today. I hope that I never have to sell and I continue to grow my collection but those are the kind of things that make me want to deal with those guys if something were to ever happen - and it makes sense why they get such good material all of the time (and it was cool seeing the Plank from the fairy godmother find).

8.) My want list is pretty small right now as I am finishing up my 55 and 54 Topps ugrades. I am on the verge of buying a 63 fleer set and have a few other upgrades in the set run that I am hitting as I go along - but I didn't have a huge list of singles that I was going to sit at a table and go through commons trying to build my sets. This saved some time. I also bought a 54 Berra and 54 Billy Martin on Monday night, so I counted them as show purchases. I have set up a 63 Fleer and 64 Rose purchase with a very nice N54 member and am transacting that next week - so I am counting them as my National purchases - even though I didn't actually buy them at the show (they will be there when I get home).

9.) The one thing that I did buy was the boys' 2016 Topps sets that I get them every year - so that we have the set run going to current. Last time, I went to Steel City collectibles. They had them for $40. I took a flyer and asked if they would take $75 for two. In 2014 they did, when I asked, the immediate response was "NO SIR!" I told him that I would walk the floor and see what I could find and maybe be back later. I ended up finding a smaller vendor who had them for sale for $40. I asked if he would discount a multiple purchase. He said, "How about $75 for 2?" SOLD. I then went and spent $42 on sheets and binders. That was it. I should have waited until the end of the day because it got tiresome lugging them around.

10.) The boys were treated well, but now that they are 17 and 14, and are getting closer to me in size, it wasn't quite the free for all that it was in 2014 - when random people would pull them aside and try to give them free stuff. My younger son was asked by the Panini rep if he wanted to participate in the NBA kids case break at 4 with the Memphis Grizzlies. Alas, no Grizzlies were pulled, but he did get a nice consolation prize. The only problem was that we had walked the floor nearly twice by a quarter after 3 and we spent the next 30 minutes just sitting in the food court waiting until the break started at 4. As soon as he was done there, so were we. I would have never imagined not only finishing in one day (it was 2 full in Cleveland), but being done 90 minutes before it shut down.

11.) Prices were all over the place. I can usually look at 1-2 cards and have an idea of pricing strategy. One guy had a 68 PSA 5 Clemente for $250. He had other cards that looked to be about 3-5x the going rate. That was a quick walk by. Another guy had very strong pricing - a PSA 6 Kaline (albeit the first generation label and it looked like it had some marks in the border) for $700 - but had some room. I need to get it but didn't love the card. I know tht it was a $500 a few months ago, but $700 with some room seemed reasonable - and that was how his inventory was priced. Another guy had 33 Ruth's at a grand a grade, decently price low grade Ruth and Gehrigs, and other solid, fair prices. The 50's and 60's prices are heavy at the National - A PSA 6 Rose was $1400. I saw a PSA 6 Clemente that was not especially nice (off center, just meh) for $5500. They tended to run $4500-$6500. 5's are consistently $3000. I am so happy that I pulled the trigger for mine last March for $2200 - and it was $400 above SMR at the time and I worried about paying too much). Koufax PSA 6 was consistently $2000. Aaron was generally $3000 for PSA 6. There were deals to be made, I just had a pretty narrow list and I already had the 63 fleer set up, so I had to keep that in mind.

12.) I had marked my list to see some of the Net54 folks and visit their booths. Unfortunately, I left it at the hotel and didn't have it to reference. If you saw a guy in an Austin 3:16 shirt and you were nice, I appreciate it. I am starting to get burned out on the hobby a bit. I always feel like I am the buy high sell low guy and I feel like a lot of these dealers would really stick it to me if they figured they could make a buck. If that is the way to get ahead in the hobby then count me out. I would witness the negotiation as they were going through material and buying. It was always discounting their collection, reminding the collector that they had plenty of inventory and would be sitting on it for a while, cherry picking the best stuff, giving a low ball take it or leave it offer, yet continually asking anyone with a backpack or a box in hand what they had and then going through the same exercise. If 70-80% of VCP is what I can count on, I shutter to think how much I would lose if I ever got liquid. Oh well, I collect for my personal pleasure - to buy up the stuff that I could never afford when I was a kid. I hope to pass it on to my boys some day. When I was a kid, I was often shoo'd away by the dealers as I was a low rent guy wanting to look at the big cards in their cases.

End of Rant, End of recap. File under TLDR, or enjoy if you were unable to attend and wanted a taste of what it was like. Probably not going to Chicago next year, as $60 for the three of us to walk through in 4 hours doesn't really justify it - but I will probably break down and go to Cleveland in 2 years if I am still in this collecting game.

Cheers,
Kevin

P.S. heard rumblings from a dealer that an autographed Mantle ball was swiped today.

Just wanted to say that you guys reporting here really suck! ;)

For months I've been planning on going Saturday, but have been exhausted lately. Pretty much decided last night that I might not be up to the 6 hours of driving roundtrip. So, I got on the 5:26 train this morning, heading to work in Manhattan, tired and resigned to not going tomorrow.

Now reading the reports here, I'm reconsidering. Have to see what I feel like tonight.

Huh?

I was thinking the same thing

Great post. Very odd that the SGC guy did that. And they are wondering why they are losing market share.

That card probably has an extremely misleading report. I'm sure it has been cracked out numerous times.

I was told of this Heritage situation some time ago. If Heritage brought stuff there were some legal hurdles I just don't remember the details. It might have been a taxation thing. *(and I realize they aren't selling at the show but it was something crazy)

Nice write-up Kevin, enjoyed reading. I've never been to a National, I did not know there was such a thing until a couple years ago when I became a member here. From what I have read, the common theme at The Nationals seems to be the over pricing of cards and the word 'rude' is used a lot. So I wonder why go? The money spent just to get there with travel, hotel and food etc. , then what does one get? Overpriced cards and rude dealers moving you along because he can tell you aren't going to drop $6K on a 1955 kids bubble gum card.

Understandable.

I guess I understand a possible tax problem. It's a shame though; they always brought great items to the National. Seeing the BSF E98s there was a highlight.

If they don't have any Heritage signage, and they don't bring stuff, what do they do at at their booth?

I've been in the room for about 7 hours and didnt meet a single person I'd consider rude. Overwhelming people seem almost giddy to be in a room with so much cool stuff and so many folks with same hobby.
As they say, your mileage may vary ....

PS. I don't consider someone rude for not negotiating on price. I may not appreciate it but it's their prerogative.

I apologize if I came off as saying they were rude to me. In most cases, quite the contrary. At worst, they were indifferent and there is no harm there. I was only speaking to the collection/card buying process from patrons as I witnessed a half a dozen of these transactions. Admittedly, I have deep scars from a transaction gone wrong at a show when I was 9 years old that I won't rehash here - so I always view with a skewed eye, but the general walking of the floor and interaction was pleasant.

It's all about knowing when to play and having the right piles. Very straightforward, actually. (at around 2:12 there is some serious strategy going on.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09TSwVSl3ZM




.

2 guys at the National.....
 

I have a friend who is at the National AC with a roommate and so far the roommate bought a 1953 Topps set for $4500 and about $2000 in singles from various years.

My friend has spent $5500 on cards (mostly top rookies) and still has around $2500 left to spend.

These are just 2 folks walking the floor who admittedly are not afraid to spend some cash but can you imagine how much money is changing hands down there?!

:eek::cool::eek:

Peace, Mike

If I was there with my cards looking to get them graded I wouldn't have hesitated getting SGC to grade them.

Of course, not knowing the situation fully or the time frame, do you think it is possible he simply forgot about you as I am sure he, like everyone else has a ton on their minds?

WOW! :eek:

I can only imagine the money that is changing hands around there!

I am sure Brinks trucks are making frequent visits?

Sucks to hear a signed Mickey Mantle ball was swiped. :(

Irv....
 

A funny side note about my friend who was carrying $8000 cash on him when he entered the show on Wednesday. I was on the phone with him while he was walking the 5 blocks from his hotel to the Show and I overheard a panhandler ask my friend for some change........my friend confidently said "Sorry, I have no change on me!" ! Technically he told me he was telling the truth as he had no change! Just $8000 in cash bills!!!! :eek:

He is also a burly guy and not a pushover but he even admitted to taking an Uber back to his hotel each night as the street seems to change in the dark in AC! :cool:

Peace, Mike

LOL

Don't blame him one bit!

kevin
 

outstanding write-up Kevin - thank you!

Of course anything is possible but we're talking less than two minutes from the time he acknowledged me to the time he walked away.

SGC did a great job for me. Only very minor complaint is the very nice guy helping me didn't know much about grading. But his job was to take submissions.

PSA line was nuts today ten minutes after the gates opened.

Bought nothing after 6 hours on Thursday and today bought an expensive card 5 minutes in the room.

Really have to wonder about the guy with half a table of Trump paraphernalia. I am not violating Leon's rule in that I'd make the same exact comment if it as Clinton stuff. Who would want to see political stuff when they are here to buy cards. I guess some people are just incapable of turning it off.

Al at LOTG had to be the busiest guy in the room. I stopped by a dozen times to say hello and every single time he was reviewing a consignment. Once was being interviewed.

White House sub shop is a ten minute walk. A nice walk. I pity people who are the dreck in the hall. The Tun Tavern right across from the center is a nice place. Was buzzing at lunch today. When you need to step out and get a beer it's a stones throw.

Was really amazed about all the youngsters. Roving 10 and 15 year olds. Was really cool to see. Collecting is not dead!

What did you buy, if you don't mind?

That would tick me off royally. Especially if the guy was begging for your business just months earlier. And to treat you like you were nobody.

2016 Atlantic City National
 

Just returned from 2016 Atlantic City National.

I drove down from Maine. Took a relaxing antiquing trip across New Hampshire to Vermont starting early on Wednesday. Was excited about how relaxing a trip it was taking this route. Unfortunately the 2nd half of the trip was a nightmare. New Jersey has the worst road signs in the country, and the traffic was bad including seeing the wreck of a smoldering 18 wheeler just prior to leaving NJ headed for Interstate 87 North on my trip home on Thursday afternoon. Lucky for me, I was headed North and the wreck was Southbound.

I reached the Atlantic City Convention Center a few hours before the opening on Thursday, and was excited about what surprises might lie ahead.

Here's my impression of the show.

I have been to Nationals in Cleveland, Atlanta, the original Atlantic City show, and Baltimore, and this show had a lot of open area at both the ends. Found the layout of dealers to be very fragmented with larger displays in the middle that broke up the flow of going row to row.

No doubt I was agitated from a crappy drive through New Jersey, but I viewed the entire show in only about 2 1/2 hours. Keep in mind, I had no interest in any autographs, new products, grading services, card breaks, auction houses...strictly an interest in 1905-1920 cards and memorabilia.

Of all the Nationals I have been to, I have never seen such a small amount of memorabilia. I also never recall seeing so many tables not ready to receive customers at the 10 opening at previous Nationals. I also noticed that prices were much higher compared to other Nationals I had been to in years past.

On a positive note, however, the show did have some nice T202s, T204s, T205s, T206s, T207s and T210s. One dealer had a display case full of nice 1909 Obaks. Don Hontz of Portand, Maine had a really nice selection of 1914 Cracker Jacks, 1915 Crack Jacks, and T205s at his table.

There also seemed to be a decent selection of nice postcards such as: Rose Co., Novelty Cutlery, Sepia, Ullmans, Sporting News etc.

Lucky for me, I did see one rare item that I was interested in acquiring in one of the tables at the far end opposite from the card break end.

As luck would have it, I was able to strike a trade deal with Tim N. from the board, and acquired this 1913 Ira Thomas cravats. That purchase was the lone saving grace from a disappointing show.


Patrick

That does seem odd, but I bet whatever it was he was talking about, distracted him enough to forget about you? (Just a guess of course and not taking sides)

That is great to hear! :)

going tomorrow for my first time, I have a want list of T206 Walter Johnson, Christy Mathewson and Cy Young. Would like to pick one of those 3 up in a 3 or a nice looking 2.

To be honest, im quite nervous about the national's markup. But....I have never been so maybe it's not that bad?

Once you establish yourself as a knowledgeable collector and not some jammoke who just stumbled in from the casino I think most sellers are willing to be reasonable. Of course there can always be good faith difference in opinion as to what something is worth. I would chat a bit and establish you know what you are doing before throwing out a number.

There is a table on the far left (as you are heading to the back that has multiples of all of those. Can't remember how they were priced. The same table had the PSA 5 mantle for 115k - so use that as a relative price index.

the mantle does not mean anything to me. I do not track mantle stuff at all because it's just not worth it.

Thanks for all the updates!

Jimmy

Just letting you know that was the only price I remember from his table as a point of reference.

thanks for the updates...sounds kinda similar to every national I've been to in last 10 years!

He's been very persistent at some shows I've been doing, making all sorts of great offers etc... and I've enjoyed talking with him, but I hadn't submitted anything yet. One can always misinterpret, but it really felt like I was getting the brush-off, like I hadn't been worth his time. Contrast that with the treatment I got with Robert Edwards and PWCC it came off even worse. I mean Larry Dean was busy as hell while I was there, but he still took a few seconds to chat with me and meet my friend.

So I am somewhere between a jammoke (I think, I'm not sure what that is but it doesn't sound complimentary) and a knowledgeable collector. I know there is a ton of talk about pricing at the National, and here's sort of my view:

1) The National is the only show where I can confidently walk in knowing that I can line up 5 to 10 cards that I want, look at them side-by-side, and understand exactly what I'm buying and how it stacks up versus the other cards. I bought my Gehrigs this year and last year, and both times I hemmed and hawed, and went back and forth on what card I wanted, and could have easily bought any of 4 or 5 cards, but I settled on a LOWER GRADED card because I did not like the higher graded alternatives as much as I thought I should. It had nothing to do with price, but it had to do with what I could see and how the row of cards stacked up against each other. I won't get that at many other shows, I don't think.

2) Because it's the National, these guys are paying premium $$$ for tables, and so in a seller's market, that cost is transferred to the buyer. That's just basic economics in what is clearly right now a price inelastic market.

3) I don't go to the National to compete on pricing. I go for the experience, the ability to learn and to see what I estimate is 75% to 80% of total US inventory for sale at this stage in life. I get good data points on how prices are moving, what's available and not in broad strokes, and a way to sort of narrow down my focus. In short, it's a very complete data point in what is typically a very fragmented, opaque marketplace. If I ever go, and guys are competing on pricing aggressively, that will be very instructive to me as well for how I could purchase cards over the next 12 to 18 months.

Using all of that information, I think you can find pockets and areas that are soft, or not extremely elevated, in order to get what you need. I paid a lot more than I wanted for my Gehrig last year (and I didn't bargain on mine this year) but I walked the entire floor and didn't find another one in the ENTIRE NATIONAL. That pressed me into action; I wouldn't have had that experience without the National.

Is it worth $22 and $10 for parking and maybe $25 in gas? For me, without a doubt. I look forward to it every single year.

I did almost the exact same thing. Wed I went searching for any e92 Nadjas I could find but came up completely empty. Thursday I tried to just find something different/unique but nothing really stood out. I did meet and complete a trade with ValKehl that netted me a e92 Nadja Schaeffer. This morning I ended up picking up a great looking t3 Johnson for a very reasonable price.

Overall I thought the show was pretty good and everyone who was complaining about the location missed out. I was able to Meet a ton of folks from the board (too many to name) while hanging out at Al's booth and just as many while roaming the floor. I think this was probably the highlight of the show for me. Below are a few of my other thoughts.

1) Dealers seemed to be doing well. Observed several deals being completed for over $1k. None of the dealers I spoke to were complaining about the amount of business they were getting.

2) Tons of 52 Topps Mantles available. I would say at least 30-40 were qavailable with several dealers having multiples in different grades available. Prices were all over the place, but I think the cheapest I saw priced was $10k. I did hear multiple discussions for the 51 bowman from attendees either looking to buy or sell.

3) Lots of T206s available including several dealers with rare backs. I know I saw red Hindu, Drum, multiple Uzits, etc. One dealer had a number of different oddities and another had cases filled with Cobbs, Youngs, Mathewsons, etc. The same dealer also had quantities of Goudey Ruth's, Gehrigs, etc. In general, caramels seemed to be in short supply.

4) AC - I thought the convention center was good enough. but about 1/4 of the convention center was reserved for the case break area. Every time I went pasta this area it seemed to be empty. This kind of made me wonder if the case break was smaller, would that open up the possiblity of different locations being considered for the future. At the same time, I spoke with several people that expressed confusion over the whole case break ideas.

Walking the streets seemed safe enough in the morning. Granted, I did not walk back in the evening. I could see how the streets outside the convention centers/outlet area could be less than friendly when the sun goes down.

That's all I can think of at the moment.
DJ

I liked a lot of what you had to say, but you clearly overestimate the National if you think the above is even remotely accurate.

Kinda contradicts what you said later "I walked the entire floor and didn't find another one in the ENTIRE NATIONAL"

So, what is the percentage? Again, I'm no expert, I am just guessing.

It doesn't contradict it. It's my assumption that if I want it, I'm going to find it at the National, and in multiple forms. If I don't find it in multiple forms, then I better act quick, because I'm not sure how I'm going to find it elsewhere without paying a finder's fee/auction fee of some sort.

Again, because I think there's so much at the National, if I can't find it, I sorta say "Oh, man, I gotta buy it now or maybe not get a chance again."

I'd be shocked if 25% of the industry's prewar inventory was in that room. BEYOND shocked actually. There might be as much prewar inventory in board members homes who weren't at the National as there was at the National. I think I'd actually take that action in favor of the board.

Yeah, I put a decimal point then start adding zeros to the right of it before writing a 1.

National
 

Anyone see any tougher Joe Jackson cards for sale?

Tony

Well, it has been very interesting reading all the reports from National. I'm not sure when or even if I'll ever be able to attend.

If it ever comes to Atlanta, I would make a concerted effort to be there...but, even then, I would be quite the green-horn to such surroundings. Nice to know there was a good Net54 representation there...perhaps that sort of group would provide some guidance should I show up.

For someone who is yet to move up to a smart-phone, what's the best way to carry / handle your finances / then purchases at National...I mean, I know to carry anything in my front pockets, not my back pockets - but what else would y'all advise?

Thanks,
Raymond

1 day
 

My son (12 yrs old) and I went all day on Thursday. I have been collecting since 1976, but this was only the 2nd National I have ever attended and my son's first.

When we entered the hall at 10AM we walked right past Joe Orlando of PSA chatting with some guy in an aisle near the PSA booth.

Things I noticed - I asked at a number of dealers' tables that had pre-war for York Caramels (E210) but found none! Very strange, I thought.

I was also looking for a 1934 Goudey Jimmie Foxx in PSA 3 and could not find one. In fact I only saw a few in any condition, most were not graded or PSA 1's or 2's. Most of the raw were in similar condition. I also saw at least 1 high grade.

I was also looking for Old Judge Baltimore players and John Tener cards. I saw a bunch of Old Judges - but not one Baltimore or John Tener Old Judge. Nada -

Saw lots of high & low grade card stars and RC's from 1950s and 1960s. But less in mid grade - PSA-4-6. PSA 6's I saw in these were priced significantly higher than normal prices for these. I tried to buy a 1951 Bowman Nellie Foxx RC in PSA 6 and found only 1, but could not come to an agreement with the dealer. He wanted $175, but it was OC top to bottom and I just could not pull the trigger.

My most successful buys were 3 graded T206 Baltimore players I needed: Adkins, Dessau, and Dunn (Old Mill).

I met one guy in his 30's at a dealer's table who specialized in high grade 1950s stars and RC's. He dropped 9K on a couple of high grade RC's. The dealer asked him what he did for a living and he said he was an investment broker. I guess those guys really are driving the market now.

Bitter sweet thing, my son bought mostly Pokemon cards (of which there was a fairly large supply) - but we still had fun hanging out all day and he liked looking at the pre-war stuff I was checking out. I was kind of secretly hoping some collector or dealer would verbally encourage him to collect sports cards but no one said anything to him (possibly because he is already 5'10"), except one dealer who rudely told him to get out of a chair at his booth because they were for customers (not realizing I was on the other side of the booth trying to purchase some cards from his partner).

I though the show had plenty of room in the aisles and in the hall in general. Seemed like a bigger space than what was at the last Baltimore National. Easy parking for $15 right next to the convention center.

White House Subs did not disappoint after the show was over.

I will anxiously look forward to the next National on the East Coast!

Rich, I did see some E210s at the show on Thursday & Friday, but not all that many. I do specifically recall seeing a couple of York Caramel WaJos.

Did not notice any valuable Shoeless Joe cards.

they were probably getting them signed as Namath is signing Sat.

that wouldnt be very smart if they were graded...esp high grade.

there appears to be no shortage of jordan rookies at this years national!