1982 Topps Blackless
 

Just sharing some of my 82 Blackless stars/HOF's...always looking for more hof graded or raw. Trying to get a full 82 HOF set. I know it is unlikely with the Ryan and Henderson being so $$$ but i'll try :)

1982
 

It is a tough set. At one point I knew a few other people working on the whole set. The Ryan and Henderson are tough because of player collectors, but not the hardest to find in all Blackless ( no gray ). The A sheet cards are the easiest. When I was building the set the theory was C sheet cards were toughest. But Bs can be pretty hard as well.

The Blackless cards were distributed in packs at retail. The As seem to have showed up in NY and the Bs and Cs in Micihigan. The main sellers I used were in those states. Good luck in your quest


http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/...539/img029.jpg
http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/...539/img030.jpg

Thanks Al!
So do you know if they were only in wax or rack at retail? or both? I would guess that a lot of people had them/probably still do and don't know they have them...

Blackless
 

I bought all of mine on the secondary market, but Stevelee, who collects and sells them regularly ( on eBay), believes they were mostly found in cellos, and maybe some from vending. He is unaware of them coming from wax or rack packs

I know for a fact
 

I am 100% sure I pulled a blackless fisk all star from a wax pack bought at mr. Food in Wyomissing PA in 1982 when I was 10 years old. I remember it like it was yesterday. It was the only one I have ever owned. I sold it to a Fisk collector when I was a full time dealer around 1997 or so.

Wow. That's pretty cool that you remember opening the pack and seeing it as a kid. I'm quite sure I would have not realized what I had pulled if that was my ten year old self :)

1982 blackless
 

Just a suggestion, I bought a George Brett PSA 9 that was graded very early by PSA and was not labeled "blackless". Sent it in and had it relabeled. :)
You might keep an eye out on major players.

Yea PSA has screwed it up the other way too unfortunately... Look at this pop 1 Brett. I was offered from a seller and almost bought it from looking at a pic on my cell phone. But it is clearly not Blackless.

This is the true "highest graded" example of that Brett...

Yep, I'm no expert on colors, but that looks like black to me. :rolleyes:

Not even blacklessing :)

Blackless
 

I heard about the 10. Guess someone was color blind that day.
I too have a 9 and the population report still shows one 10.

I sent PSA the pic/cert number but they wouldn't delete it as the highest graded.

That's funny. I think the only All Star with a sig. was the George Foster which was obviously an UER. I think it was uncorrected. It seems so obvious but hey that's graded cards for ya.

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Look what PWCC just put up for auction...the not blackless mechanical error pop 1 :)

The Brett is currently at $46. What is the going rate for a normal PSA 10 1982 Topps George Brett All Star card, which is essentially what this card is?

VCP is $23.78 for the non blackless...no doubt this auction will end much higher.

Wow, I have been a card collector since 1979 but never heard of the Blackless cards. I need to check to see if I have any.

I love this forum. You learn something new everyday.

Mike

At $257.88 now! Wow.

It's been reported to Brent multiple times that this card is a mechanical error. He should save face, pull the listing, and send it back to PSA.

I just reported it to him as well. My faith in a seller tumbles the longer situations like this are allowed to continue, so I hope for Brent's sake that he removes the listing soon.

Just got a reply from PWCC:

Hi Ben,

Thank you for reaching out about this. We are having our team look into this and will take action on it shortly. Thank you!

Best Regards,

Melody Simnitt

PWCC Auctions, LLC
eBay id: pwcc_auctions

It is probably a lot rarer than an actual Blackless version and might be of more interest to a unique Brett collector.

I am a Cardinals team set collector as many of you know. I am of the opinion that these are print defects and I don't include print defects in my collection. I am sure I am in the minority on this. Can some one explain why these are not just considered a print defect?

I think you are in the majority but there are a bunch of weirdos, as evidenced by the never ending variations thread, that collect recurring print defects. Sometimes if that defect gets hobby recognition even a green smudge in a baseball on a card back gets value above it's common counterpart. Sometimes those print defects bring perplexing premiums due to hobby recognition, like the 58 Herrer. In fact, all Blackless cards are themselves just recurring print defects. The Blackless cards for whatever reason gained hobby recognition

And if there is a recurring or even one time oddity on a star card, player collectors sometimes have to have it.

Be glad you do not have that illness, Shane :)

I do agree that this card should not be sold as a Blackless card, but rather as a rare Brett error card.

So.... Reoccurring is the key word. I don't have the print defect illness, but I do have a chronic, though not debilitating, Cardinals team set illness.

Maybe this will help you with a print defect illness...Blackless Cardinals :) lol

Psssst.....that's a Padre.

Haha... he will always be a Cardinal to me :)

82 Brett not so blackless
 

Well, you have to assume after all this time that the seller has no intention of closing down the sale of this card on ebay. All I can say is ebay has been
notified and so has the seller. I have sure lost respect for this seller, hope he makes me change my mind and does the right thing.

They are print defects but they very rare print defects.

I collect them because I'm a Mets completist. Of all the 1980's hard to find stuff (1985 Minis, 1988 Cloth, 1989 Heads Up, 1984 Encased, etc) these have been the hardest, I've been collecting them for about 2 years and only have 1/2 the Mets team set.

The 1982 Blackless set gained recognition after being listed as a separate set in the SCD Standard Catalog. I assume they did that because the defect is scarce, but occurs on 396 cards from the entire set, and despite the defect, was distributed in packs at retail.

Another tough Topps issue from the 80s for Yankee and Met collectors are the Met/Yankee Double header prototypes, which were sold in packs in a limited retail market. Much scarcer than the 89 or 90 regular issues, or even the other prototypes for them

Al, are you referring to the ones with the 1988 Topps card?

1980s
 

Jim---I am in general agreement with you on tough Topps issues from the 80s. For me the 82 Blackless, 84 Encased, the 85 Minis ( blank and regular backs), 88 Cloth and 89 Big Sucker Heads were all tough.

The 89 regular Double Header All Star set of 24 was pretty easy. They were mini cards in a two way plastic stand with a copy of the players 89 card and his earlier rookie card. A little tougher was the Double Header Yankees and Mets set of 24....same format, 89 mini card ( paper thin) and reproduction of prior rookie card in plastic stand up. But much harder to run down are the Double Header Mets/Yankees Proof or Prototype cards. There were only 8 and the holder has the 88 version of their cards and their rookie card. They were issued in packs but on a very limited basis

The prototype packs are the clear ones with shorter CL

http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/...539/img322.jpg

Well it looks like PWCC did the right thing and pulled the listing from eBay.

1982 blackless Topps Brett psa 10
 

Glad they removed it, took them long enough

Hey Al, you know I love the test sets and 85 is my favorite of the 80s by far. The variations are why I love it. I have examples of the full stats, blank vanilla, blank tan, the Acme and Fuchs prototypes that TATSR bought in the golden auction in 15 (and I still want that Jim Davenport I begged for a couple times,lol) but have not picked up a red print back yet.

Did you complete any of the variation sets?

Reviving an old thread here. I didn't even know these existed until 2017 or so. I have a couple dozen, but I don't have any of the big ones yet. These are some of the cards I have picked up more recently along with the standard 82s for comparison. It's weird, but I am really getting into these and also am starting to notice the '84 Topps encased. All these years I didn't realize there was so much fun and affordable stuff in my favorite decade to collect!

Some of the scans uploaded sideways, and I am too tired to fix them...[emoji2957]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...04d061a142.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...682e9b64fb.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...73085adc3f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...504a266b0e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...77f4b691ed.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...3c642e038f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...4b2df7fea8.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...ac6870c3dc.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...036900bac3.jpg

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Anyone have a Johnny Bench Blackless for sale?

1982 Topps Blackless
 

Anyone looking to sell HOFers or All-Stars?

Ok. I'm still not understanding what makes a card 'blackless'

Most of the ones posted have the color black included on their fronts.


Please explain.


.

I'm no expert and didn't even know these existed until net54, but....... I think the photos themselves aren't effected. It's the signatures, positions, and black line border around the photo that's missing.

:)

The only 'blackless' I'm seeing is between posts 8 & 9, where George Brett's name is present on one - in black - and not in any color on the other.


It would be easier to understand if both versions of any given card were posted.

Thanks in advance for making things clearer for these old eyes.



.

On most 1982 Topps blackless cards the only things missing are the facsimile signature and the the border line around the photo. On three teams, Pirates, Phillies, and Orioles, the position is also missing. On the All Star cards the player’s name and the border line around the photo are missing. On the In Action cards the only thing missing is the border line around the photo. Some of the posters on this thread have shown both versions of the card, regular and blackless, I think that is what is confusing you.

There is also blacklessing and gray ghosts transition cards to ponder

I think what it is, is that the term is not wholly correct. What you describe is correct for what The 1982 Topps Blackless is supposed to mean, in this instance. The fascimile signature and the photo border line is missing.

However, it is not what a typical "blackless" card would look like, where the black plate was not used, or there was some error that caused that color to be missing. We can see that in the "true 1982 Topps" examples, it is not exactly the case, because black is still present in the player photos.

So that is why the term can be confusing. Certainly there would also exist 1982 Topps cards that were actually missing the black color, which then would technically be blackless, but would be different from this specific printing error known as 1982 Topps Blackless.

I'm looking for a Blackless Alan Trammell if anyone has one to sell - thanks!

https://www.comc.com/Cards/Baseball/...ure,sr,ot,i100
A seller or two have also been selling blank back proofs with no signature on them through COMC.
https://img.comc.com/i/Baseball/1982...3e98&size=zoom
You can see on this Dale Murphy blank back that the black line around the photo is present, while the signature is missing. Not a true blackless card, but another interesting variation nonetheless.
I think COMC is mis-characterizing the In Action cards (and I've reported it to them) because those cards don't regularly come with the signature. Those should just be listed as blank backs.

When I was putting my Blackless set together, one of the first sellers I dealt with was zenithium. He sells under a different name now, I think crystalentia . He had a very elaborate description of cards he called Blackless, Blacklessing ( some gray), Bluesless and Autoless. I ended up with some Blacklessing in buying lots to fill out the Blackless set. I also bought a few Blueless, posted earlier.

What he called Autoless, like the one you posted John, were blank back, without the auto, but not Blackless. Proof cards ? I bought a Reggie Jackson that way. His descriptions of all 4 of these and how rare and valuable they are were a full page in length and almost literary masterpieces in salesmanship.

Yeah, I figure these are proof cards since they're missing the signature but not the black frame.

I've been looking for a Trammell Blackless for at least 30 years. I hit the jackpot, and now have roughly two sets like this!

As someone who has dabbled in these, that is a cool assortment. Well done!

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Blackless cards are a long-time staple of error collecting; the 1982s simply have more examples.

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibit...0Blackless.png
http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibit...ank%20back.JPG

What got Blacless notoriety is Lemke listed them a separate set in the SCD Standard Catalog back when it listed post 80 issues. As a result PSA began stabbing them.

They are not really variations, just print defects but the problem occurred on 3 entire sheets , A, B and C, so there are at least 396 in a "set". There are some variants among the 396 as well, even among full blackless versions.

Some blackless cards from the D sheet have shown up on eBay, but it is not clear if all cards from that sheet can be found blackless or that the defects occurred on multiple sheets or as many times as was the case with the A,B and C cards.

B and C sheet blackless cards seem scarcer than A cards. D sheet examples are apparently even more scarce. The A, B and C blackless cards all showed up in packs. I think A and Bs in Michigan and C in NY. Not sure if Ds could be found in packs or where

Agree with Adam such blackless defects show up in other years, but apparently not to the same recurring extent over such a large number of cards as in 1982. I also have some examples from 68 and 71 like those he posted.

When you see these Trammell cards in person, it's clear to see that the black was just "running low" - it looks like your printer at home running low on ink. However, because I've been looking for a Trammell blackless for so long, that this is just the coolest thing to me.

The 82's have a lot of errors. The blackless, blueless, and a ton of wrong backs. Has anyone seen a blackless wrong back?

All that is to me one of the biggest Topps mysteries. For most, it's enough to shrug and say "Well, Topps... " just because they did loads of odd things.

But as near as I can tell, the 364 card double sheets were printed as A and B / C and D/E and F so those pairs should be equally common.

Maybe they caught the D sheets but none of the others?
Maybe if it was the ink running out it was localized to one side of the press so very few D sheet cards didn't get missed?

Not exactly what you requested but in the same ball park...

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/fbMAA...0M/s-l1600.jpg

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/uSAAA...0w/s-l1600.jpg

Those are awesome, thanks for sharing.

Awesome, awesome stuff, guys! I am a child of the 80s. I have often lamented the fact that my decade started the whole junk wax era. For quite a while, I didn't know there was anything worthwhile to collect from the 80s. Then, I found out about items like '82 Blackless. I have a few but not as many as I wish I had. I probably need to hit those harder.

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In my experience the toughest 80s Topps sets for me to assemble ( as listed in SCD), were the 82 Blackless, 84 Encased ( head in box prototype proofs), 85 minis in blank bank, regular back and red only back ( have not finished the red backs), the 88 Cloth and 89 Big Head Suckers . The 80 coins were the toughest but are not cards

Al, you have mentioned those previously, and I am glad you did. I wouldn't have known about them otherwise. Admittedly, I only have some of the '82 Blackless. However, I am increasingly drawn to collecting players from my era, that I watched. I know there were great players of the past, and I have spent time and money collecting them. However, there's just something more special about collecting players from my own childhood, even if the perceived value isn't that much.

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Not really cards either but I would put the 1988 Mets/Yankees Doubleheaders. The 1989's are tough (Not the All-Stars but the Mets/Yankees test) too but not as tough as the '88s.

I find the 1980-1990 era very rewarding to collect. Although some of the period pre-dates me (born in '85), I know all the players and you can still find a lot of unopened at reasonable prices. Not a huge fan of the design of most of the sets from 1991-1994 and I simply can't keep track of all the sets that inundated the market after '94.

James-- agree on the Met/Yankees DHs as another tough one. Even tougher are the prototypes of that test issue.

The set with the 1988 card, some call them prototypes or proofs but I don't think they are either. They were sold in very limited places so I think they are a test. You have a wrapper from that issue, correct?

Back when I was selling a ton of cards in the late 90's I had a chance to buy a case of the 89 Mets/Yankees. I passed and bought a few cases of the 89 & 90 All-Stars instead. Wish I would have bought them all.

Ouch :)

....and I have learned something yet again! Thanks, Jim. I had NO idea these things existed. I know Net54 is largely a prewar site, but you guys are dropping some serious knowledge here on the modern board. I am very interested in these along with the other issues mentioned.

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Ok back to the 1982 regular set blackless situation. Since I was reminded of this thread, I have been checking my 1982 cards (they are scattered about, so it is no simple task) and so far have not run into anything them... maybe...

So far all of the examples of the (accepted) Blackless have been either the regular player cards or the All Star versions. None of In Action, Team leaders or Checklists.

When I went through mine, I only have all 6 checklists. 1-3 are "blackless" (ie they are missing the black border around the photo frame) although they may have orange or red frame and 4-6 are normal.

#129 - Checklist 1-132
#226 - Checklist 133-264
#394 - Checklist 265-396
#491 - Checklist 397-528
#634 - Checklist 529-660
#789 - Checklist 661-792

Quick look on ebay active listings, results:
129 - none have black frame
226 - none have black frame, some have light orange frame
394 - all have orange or red frame
491 - all have black frame
634 - all have black frame
789 - all have black frame

Here is an ebay listing (not mine) that has a good look at all 6, you can definately see a trend between the first three and the second three.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/173989561330

I will try to remember to get a scan of the ones I have.

The Blackless "set" is check listed (396) in several sources and does include IA cards ( any and all cards from sheets A, B and C ). None of the CLs in the 82 set are on the A,B and C sheets. Some are on the D sheet and one seller has offered some Blackless cards from the D sheet but it is unclear if all cards on that sheet can be found that way or if the condition is recurring.

https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=Awr9...R1zd74_RQ5XPs-


Old thread


https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=Awr9...sS1Aqn8G5PA2g-

1982 Topps Blackless
 

I started collecting baseball cards heavily in the summer of 1982 and I literally have tons of these cards and never noticed or heard af blackless until now. Most of mine are stored in Vans Off the Wall Shoe Boxes from that era. One of these days I'll have to go through them and see if I have any blackless cards ... cool!

I hope you find some, they are tough, its been estimated about 100 of each exist.

If you are in Michigan or NY your odds are better

82 Bench Blackless
 

I am looking to find a '82 Blackless Johnny Bench. Anyone knows if one is for sale please let me know.

What is the deal with the Carlton Fisk #111 In Action card? I know i have read that it was a D sheet but how does PSA have 4 of them graded??? I guess there is a possibility that some of the D sheets are blackless too? Maybe D sheet defects just not recurring like Al says above I guess.
Cal Ripken Blackless....wow

There is clearly Black on the highest graded example...

So much for collecting just the Blackless HOF players and stars.
Just picked this up :) Has been in a cabinet for the past 25 or so years.
They look like they just came out of a pack. Super excited.

Have mercy!!!

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Say what? Big pickup for a modern variation collector.

Wow