1954 Topps Aaron RC versus 1955 Topps Clemente RC
I am wondering why the Clemente sells for so much more than the Aaron in same grade. PSA 7 Clemente's seem to sell for north of $20K while Aaron's PSA 7 sells for under $10K. Across the board (PSA 6 - 9) Clemente sells for double the Hank.
I looked at the pop reports and they are awful similar. In terms of total graded and even by grade. They are too similar, I think, to justify the difference in values. Sure I am a Canadian who focuses mostly on hockey but even from that perspective, Aaron is more famous and excelled at offense (not saying Clemente didn't, just not as familiar with him), which is what usually drives value in my experience. So why is it then that the Clemente rookie card gets double the love as the Aaron? Is the Clemente overvalued? Is the Aaron undervalued? Really interested in hearing some thoughts on this. Thanks, Jeremy Lee |
You know what I think?
I think whomever is driving up prices has chosen a "figurehead" of ethnicity...Koufax, Clemente, and Robinson gets the nod for the blacks at this time. |
Clemente has always been worth more in same grade. I am surprised pops are similar actually I thought Clemente was harder to find being a high number.
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Clemente has always been justly popular in the hobby, from some combination of his flair and charisma, untimely death, humanitarian efforts, and status as the first Latin (is that politically correct these days?) superstar.
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I always chalked it up to it being a high number(the Clemente ). It seems to always be off center. So I'm sure center Clementes sell for a higher premium.
I also notice that the 1954 topps rookie are everywhere. I can't check my followed searchs with one of them being listed . |
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Plus, and it'll probably annoy fans of the 54s. I think it's just a much nicer looking card. If they were both commons and set out for free with the only catch being that you could only take one, which would it be? Steve B |
Clemente
Is simply more popular and has been since I started collecting in the late 70's early 80's. Aaron used to be a tough card to sell despite his tremendous resume. This is no longer the case of course but Clemente is still more popular.
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Aaron's underrated relative to his career accomplishments and standing as an all time great and his RC is undervalued. Always has been.
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Clemente is more popular than Aaron, it's not even really close from what I've seen over about 30 years or so.
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for now, unfortunately.
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As stated already in this thread ....
1) Aaron cards do not get a lot of respect. No idea why. 2) Aaron's resume is underrated. Highly, at times. No idea why. 3) Clemente had a great career that had an unfortunate, memorable ending. 5) The 55 Topps issue is awesome I think the 54 Aaron has some more room to grow, however. |
I'm actually more surprised that the higher grade Mays RCs sell for so much less than the Clementes. It looks like from grades 1-6, Mays outsells Clemente by decent margin, even after the recent run up on the Clemente cards. But in 7 and 8 it's about 2 to 1 in favor of Clemente. The PSA population report shows there are less Mays examples available in every grade. And they certainly don't come up for sale as often.
I do agree the Aaron is under valued. I recently picked up a nice mid grade example. |
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Larry |
As someone once said, you had a better chance of sneaking a sunrise past a rooster than sneaking a fastball by Hank Aaron.
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"As far as I'm concerned, (Hank) Aaron is the best ball player of my era. He is to baseball of the last fifteen years what Joe DiMaggio was before him. He's never received the credit he's due." - Mickey Mantle
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Did I miss some instances of Aaron being unpleasant to fans or the press? |
Clemente
Clemente may not have listed for more but he was far easier to sell and high end cards commanded a far larger premium than Aaron cards did. From my experiences of doing countless major shows pre grading Clemente was in fact in far greater demand despite what was quoted in a magazine. In the early 90's Aaron, though not as surly as Mays, was considered by many who got his auto to be rude. from the responses i heard at shows.
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http://www.mediaite.com/online/hank-...obama-critics/ |
Cite
That excerpt certainly proves...nothing
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I have lived in Atlanta/NE Georgia my entire life and I honestly can't recall hearing anything but admiration for Aaron. He has been a great ambassador for the city. I understand that his remarks in USA Today upset some people. I admit that I was bothered at the time as they seemed to paint with a very broad brush. I honestly don't think he meant the comment to be interpreted to include as many people as it seemed to implicate. With all that Aaron encountered chasing Ruth's record (racist hate mail, death threats), I think that he handled the situation with much grace and class. Many would have been much more bitter and turned their back on the city, team, and fans. He has done just the opposite as he has continued to be a vital part of the organization and community.
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duffle bags upon duffle bags of hate mail and death threats solely for being black. |
Imagine playing the outfield and going to bat wondering if maybe, just maybe, one of the people who had threatened to kill you at the ballpark was going to try it that day.
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tough to blame any black man...especially one who played in the early days of integration, for being leary of the "white man"...like mohammed ali.
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Excuses
The voice of experience ?
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It's funny, but when you're white and criticize Obama's policies, you're demonized and branded as a racist just because he's black. When you're black (Harry Belafonte, Ben Carson, Herman Cain, Michael Steele, Allen West, the list goes on and on) and criticize Obama's policies, you're branded as an "Uncle Tom". So are black people who criticize (fill in name of white politician here) racist just because he's white? What do you call the same white people (who are called racist for criticizing Obama) that support other black politicians? I didn't mean to get political, but the topic turned to Aaron's dumbass comment (even though I still consider him one of the greatest ever). |
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From the article... "MLB Hall of Famer Hank Aaron recently likened President Obama‘s Republican critics to the KKK in 'neckties and starched shirts'." In other words, he's saying if you criticize Obama, you're a racist. Right? |
"in other words"
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I think
I think it depends on how you criticize the President, those that can point to specific things they don't like have legitimate criticism. Those just saying they want their country back and he's ruined it tend to have an air of racism to their comments. There are still large swaths of this country with tremendous racial prejudices.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5S2E26BWoo |
work ethic is my only defining character.
ya either got it or ya don't. ya contribute to society or ya don't. and if ya don't, i despise ya equally regardless of the color of your skin. |
I wondered at the time when those comments came out from Hank if it would hurt his card values and they have done nothing but sky rocket since.
Clemente has the luxury if you can call it that of dying in his prime and becoming a mythical athlete. He is also from the island of Puerto Rico and is a national hero. Like many athletes their legacy can be impacted by their actions off the field or court etc. and when you die helping your countrymen you are forever a hero. I think his appearance also helps. Clemente was a handsome man and whether people like to admit it or not that can only help your popularity. I personally found the Aaron comments to be highly insulting as my disdain for Obama has nothing to do with his skin color. If someone is to be given a free pass one could argue he deserves it. From the issues during his playing days to the issues at Turner Broadcasting. There was an angle in WCW between Ron Simmons and Vader where Harley Race made some very racially insensitive comments in his promo to create cheap heat and Aaron went ballistic. Seeing this throughout your life could certainly cause one to be jaded. |
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If Aaron's comments were coming from someone of my generation, I would find them racist, but coming from someone who grew up black in Jim Crow Alabama, and debuted in the National League in 1953 when many of the teams were not yet integrated, I can see where he is coming from. I don't agree with him, but I can understand why someone with his life experiences would feel that way.
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Thanks for all of the informative responses. :)
This post below really gave me the information I was looking for especially the bolded parts. I think those might be the key reasons why the Clemente commands more dollars. It seems like reverie is more important, in this case, than who was the better player, the card's known graded population, and the relative popularity of the two sets, all put together. :eek: Quote:
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Jeremy Lee |
I get that aaron had it hard but he is a American .imagine how hard clemente must of had it .I'm sure he got it pretty bad as well . I don't remember ever hearing about him getting racist with people .nothing gives you the right to be racist . TWO WRONGS DON'T MAKE A RIGHT.
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It's pretty stunning to think that in my lifetime, below a certain latitude, a person might not be served, or permitted to stay in a hotel, because of their skin color. As late as 1980, I remember stopping at a rural Virginia restaurant after a hiking trip up in the mountains and the place was full of signs making it absolutely clear that blacks were not welcome and that it was only because of Congress and the Supreme Court that the owners were legally required to serve them.
So I agree we need to be pretty careful how we judge people who experienced those things. And I am not saying two wrongs make a right or anything like that. |
Funny I just went through Virginia on a family road trip.the had a gigantic confederate flag flying.
To me if you experienced it and still do it to someone else or a entire group. It multiples it and shows utter disregard .so now Aaron can make death threats to people just because he received Some. |
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David, I agree, unfortunately our politics are incredibly divisive these days, and seemingly getting even worse. I imagine that for most people, whichever way they lean, it's a terrible disappointment. But the politicians don't, for the most part, get the message.
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We won't get political (please) but on a non partisan observation, from what I have seen in the polls the large majority of Americans think neither of the presumptive nominees are anything to write home about, at best. It does suck for America imo....
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That's like saying ' I want to be President of the U.S. but I don't want to wear a tie and receive all the hate mail. lol Quit making excuses for ignorance. Hate is Hate!! |
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I would hate to think that the amount of money one has would ever cause a person to not worry about death threats against themself or family members. That is basically saying that money is the most important thing. I would lose respect for a person putting money ahead of family much more quickly than for making the comments that Aaron said. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk |
wow...lots of ignorance being spewn here lately.
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And Richard Cory one calm summer night
Went home and put a bullet through his head. |
Roger just seems to be looking for an argument on this subject. Ignore him until he has some worthwhile input on cards here or pre war
Roger-- tell us what you collect. This is not meant to be sarcastic. Let's find some common ground |
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Lots of talented mind readers here.
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I agree that a player being a dick can hurt card values.
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I think it was referenced in an earlier post about the "iconic" nature of Clemente as opposed to Aaron. I also think the "Dying Young" portion of the equation cannot be overlooked as a major contributor to the value. It's the same thing that makes James Dean regarded as a better actor than he was and Kennedy as a President as well. |
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