Why is Phil Rizzuto in the HOF?
 

Couldnt resist some piling on and flogging a dead horse at the same time.

He was a Yankee announcer for 40 years.

Here's seven reasons why:
1- Red Ruffing
2- Lefty Gomez
3- Spud Chandler
4- Whitey Ford
5- Allie Reynolds
6- Eddie Lopat
7- Vic Raschi

Why is Phil Rizzuto in the HOF?
 

Cronyism, the "old boys club" on the selection committee . . . take your pick. :rolleyes:

Because he's Italian. Why do you hate America?

;)

Because he's a Yankee. Same reason Mariano Rivera will probably get in the Hall of Fame. Hard to believe a guy comes in and pitches one inning a game is considered a Hall of Famer while the opposing team has played nine innings and are wore out when he comes in and pitches and is considered one of the greats? Of course he's going to get guys out. Give me a break

They needed a "Scooter" in Cooperstown.

Rivera will get in because he was the greatest closer of all time. All time leader in saves. 13 time all star. .70 era career in the playoffs. 5 world series titles including a WS MVP. I could go on but I think it's obvious. Yankee or not he would be in.

It's the job of every closer to come in and pitch the last inning. No one did it like he did though.

I have always thought putting a closer in is much like putting a kicker in the football hall of fame...silly.

However, then I think how important they are to the team, how many games are lost if they blow it, and just how much pressure they can both handle as the game often rests squarely on their shoulders. Then I understand why they are HOF worthy.

Honestly though, I doubt many folks that aren't a complete homer for that players team get too excited at the bronze busts of either while walking the halls, lol.

As the saying goes, "if it was easy, everybody would be doing it."

Best bunter ever.

Rirruto

Mariano Rivera deserves HOF. No question in my mind. Guy came into myriad high pressure situations and was overwhelmingly effective. Not every save is difficult or worth of a pat on the back but this guy was money in da bank for a long time. Deserves a first ballot election.

He was in Paradise by the Dashboard Light!

Steve

Because he played in NY and was a Yankee.

A classic.

Holy cow, I think he's gonna make it!!!

Give that man a Scoobie Snack! :D

Though I never say Rizzuto bunt, I find it hard to believe anyone was better than Rod Carew and Brett Butler.
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Does he belong in the HOF?

'Let me sleep on it...I'll give you an answer in the morning!!'
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I always assumed it was his feilding .

If Rizzuto gets by because his fielding pushes him over than Dom DiMaggio HAS to be in there. He'll look at Mr Red Sox Johnny Pesky - these guys led seasons in runs and Dom was the best outfielder arm in the game at his time. Sort of.

Jeez this makes me mad just looking at this. The year Rizzuto won the MVP - 1950 - Dom outbatted him .328 to .324 and led the lead in Runs, Triples AND Stolen Bases. Pesky led the league in hits his first three seasons and was an absolute hit machine before and after the war until he left the Sox.

Dom led the league in runs twice, triples once and stolen bases once and batted lifetime .298 - Pesky led the league in hits 3 times and batted .307 lifetime. Rizzuto led the league in nothing ever and batted .274 lifetime. Andddd he played with a bunch of Yankees who helped him win World Series trophies. I would say that there is no justice in this world - except Bobby D punched his ticket in 86 so I'll take that as consolation.

I never saw scooter either, but I read he could get down a bunt on a squeeze play when the pitcher threw the ball over his head. I never saw Willie Keeler either, but I read he could put a handkerchief anywhere up the 3rd or 1st base line and make the ball land on it every time. Some serious bat control

Never heard of or saw Butler do anything like that. Ichiro was the best bunter I ever saw.

His Money Store commercials were THAT good.

I dated "The Scooter's" daughter briefly in college. Definitely HOF material.

Well, this Red Sox fan thinks Mariano should be in. And I'd be more than happy to see him get there.

For a long time, he essentially shortened any game he got into. I hated seeing him come into a close game.

There's a few kickers I also think should be in the FB hall. Ray Guy is to me long overdue. A good kicker makes a bigger difference to a team than most people think.

Steve B

I think they just misspelled it. You should spell it: V-E-R-N S-T-E-P-H-E-N-S

My Aunt was good friends with Cora. They hung out at the beauty parlor together in the '40s/'50s. She used to bring home stuff from Yankees games for my Dad.

Hey John

Was this Penny Rizzuto ?


TED Z
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"The Scooter"
 

Some of the comments here are laughable. Most of you never met Phil Rizzuto; or, never saw him play the game

I grew up in Hillside, NJ in the 1940's and 1950's. Phil's house was 2 blocks away from us. He was a great role model for us kids in the neighborhood.

Monday nites at St. Catherine's school, Phil would get together with us and "Talk Baseball" for a couple of hours. He would give us pointers on how to
be an effective Lead-off batter and how to field our positions....answered a lot of our questions on the ballplayers of that era....and, had a great sense
of humor.

Yes, I saw Phil play from 1947 - 1956. He was great Lead-off guy, who exceeded the "Lead-off constant" associated with Lead-off batters. And, that is
if the lead-off batter in any given inning gets on base, he will score 75 % of the time (barring a double-play). This factor has been a constant in BB.....
since the beginning of the 20th Century.

Hopefully some of you may appreciate me sharing this with you. Whatever, but I don't expect you to be convinced otherwise by this Ted's words.

Here are the words of another Ted (Williams)....who personally told me (in Cooperstown in the 1980's)...... "if Phil Rizzuto played for us (Red SOX) all
those years, we would have been the Champions, instead of the Yankees".

Now, how can you argue with that statement ?


TED Z
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Steve ,
Ray Guy was inducted into the FB Hall of Fame in 2014. And I agree he did deserve it .

Ted Z, thanks for sharing that. I believe Phil lived in Hillside to the day he died, which says a lot about who he was. My family lived on Chancellor Ave. in Irvington. Hillside and Irvington aren't what they once were in the 40s/50s.

All stats courtesy of baseball-reference.com

If this "constant" is accurate, then Rizzuto falls way below it.

Of his 6719 career PA's, 1710 were leading off an inning. His OBP for those appearances was .335, or 20 points lower than his career average, and if I was not lazy, the math would probably be about .365 for non-leadoff
AB's.

Leading off an inning, he hit .254 for his career. Leading off a game, he hit .266. His career average was .273.

For his career, he scored 877 runs, while reaching base 2365 times, or 37% of the time.

If he scored 75% of the time he reached base when leading off an inning (not factoring in the aforementioned double plays), that means he scored 573 times. That would leave 304 runs for the remaining 5009 plate appearances, even though his BA, and OBP were higher when he did not lead off an inning.

An excellent defensive player, who could bunt. Looking at JAWS, WAR, and other innovative stats, he does not come close to deserving a plaque. Maybe in the broadcasting wing, certainly not as a player.

Great memories Ted, thanks for sharing them. Hate the Yankees, but loved listening to Rizzuto while falling asleep. I especially remember how much he loved Pags.

Aren't you a Red Sox fan? Do you think Ortiz should be in the hof. He played 1B like 10 times during his career and took steroids.

My first laugh of the day!

Joe and Dan

Thanks for the kind words. When you get to be my age, it's amazing how the memory of those years are clear in your mind. The mind regresses back to your youth.

Joe....are you old enough to remember Olympic Park in Irvington ?


TED Z
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Hey dude

I saw him play from 1947 to 1956; and, my memory is very clear for those years. Also, I have talked with Phil on many an occasion over the years. Can you say the same ?

Your numbers don't tell a true story. For example, I don't see Walks factored into them.

During the Yankees "dynasty" (1941 - 1953), Rizzuto was a key player in the Yankees seven World Championships (plus one AL Championship in 1942). Rizzuto's On Base %
during these 10 years was approx. .355

He scored 805 Runs during this 10-year period. That's a pretty good number for a "non-power" Lead-off hitter.


Anyhow, a better man than you or I said it the best....I will reiterate......

TED Z
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Dom DiMaggio had over 1000 runs his 10 years and was insane in the outfield. He was a lead off hitter and is still not in the hall of fame and in fact didn't even come close save for some campaigning from Ted and Doerr. Led the league in runs twice, triples once and stolen bases once. Career batting average was .298. His career OBP was .383 which is also higher than Rizzuto.

Hey Kevin

You'll get no argument from me on Dom DiMaggio.

I saw all those guys play; and, the 2nd team I rooted for when I was a kid was the Red Sox....since I was an avid Ted Williams fan.

Incidentally, it's my understanding that Ted Williams campaigned strongly for Phil Rizzuto to be in the HOF.


TED Z
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Ted,
I clearly stated when reaching base and OBP, both which count walks. I am sure you have fond memories of him, but the facts stand.

Hey guy

Yes, the facts stand....as Ted Williams said: Rizzuto was a key player in the 8 - Championships the Yankees had from 1941 - 1953.

And, what stands even greater is that Rizzuto is in the HOF.


If you want to play the numbers game, we list quite a number of HOFer's that have less successful numbers than Rizzuto.


TED Z
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Sorry I called you out on the numbers you stated as fact, and that HOF criteria is now
Ted Williams saying yes, and your opinion.

HA!...I was going to ask you about Olympic Park too Ted, how ironic. No, it closed in '65, right before I was born. My father (probably your age) remembers it well. Chancellor Ave and 42nd street :). When I was at a garage sale two years ago I picked up this ticket for ten cents.

Attachment 228319

Attachment 228320

If someone mentioned this already sorry to repeat, but he should be in for the middle section of Paradise by the Dashboard Light alone.

In my humble opinion
 

IMHO some things/people are bigger than numbers or stats. Phil Rizzuto is one of those players. I have no problem with putting a very good player who was a great ambassador for the game into the hall of fame. Oh yeah he was also one hell of a winner on the field.

It's hard for me to see why Rizzuto should be in, but not Wills.

Interesting old column from the NY Times.
The author did not talk to Ted it appears. :)
http://www.nytimes.com/1987/03/15/sp...me-432087.html

Ted, I am embarrassed to say that I have forgotten Ms. Rizutto's first name, but it would have been in the mid 60's when I was going to Union College in Schenectady, NY and she was attending Skidmore in nearby Saratoga Springs. We didn't go out for long, but I remember her as a sultry Italian beauty.

I did see Mantle play. My Dad and I took in a game at Yankee Stadium in 1956, his Triple Crown year, and, hard to believe but true, he hit 2 HR's from the left side and 1 from the right, I think I went away with stars in my eyes, a Mantle man forever. One of the things that sometimes gets overlooked with all his achievements on the diamond is that many consider him the best switch hitter ever. I saw and I believed.

Hi John
 

1956 was an amazing year for Mickey.....your Dad picked a great game for you.

Indeed, it was a Triple Crown year with BA = .353, 52 HR, and 130 RBI's.

The last time that a Triple Crown winner hit for that high an Average, and hit over 50 HR's.


Switching back to Rizzuto.....your description of Miss Rizzuto, sounds like you dated Penny.


Take care, John


TED Z
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Ah okay - i guess my argument was by proxy if Phil is in than Dom should be too and if he's not than does Phil really belong there. HOWEVER, since you agree w my assessment of Dom, my argument is fairly moot :) While we're at it though, Johnny Pesky was also an absolute beast - batted .307 over 10 seasons and led the league in hits 3 times - alas his career - like Dom's was just too short for the HOF...

It was actually a May 13, 1955 game:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/bo...95505130.shtml

I happily stand corrected. Hell, it was a long time ago, but I remember clearly being with my dad, him having a couple of Ballantine Ales and the crack of the bat (it seemed to be louder and sharper) when the Mick launched one. It is very reassuring to know that there is a stats man ready for verification.

I hope you didn't mind. I share similar wonderful memories of going with my dad to the Stadium and rooting for the Mick!

The difference of being someone who is liked and popular with the media and someone who is perceived if not in fact a little bit of a dick. I met Maury a couple of times including interviewing him and found him to be a nice well mannered man. There are those who knock his career stats, but he was also a revolutionary and that should account for something.

One of the most amazing stats I have seen is stolen base leaders for 1962. In the NL, Wills led with 104. Aparicio led the AL with 31.

Hey guys

We cannot have a thread on The Scooter without some scans. Here are some not that often seen "oldies but goodies" of him.



........................ 1941 rookie card ...................................... rare Hi # variation ...................... color printing error

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...zzuto75x_1.jpg


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...leafjarizz.jpg
TED Z
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Phi's metrics really don't look very good. One does wonder, with due respect to Ted, how much Yankee bias played into his selection.

Hall Of Fame StatisticsPlayer rank in (·)


Gray Ink Batting - 46 (554), Average HOFer ≈ 144

Hall of Fame Monitor Batting - 87 (207), Likely HOFer ≈ 100

Hall of Fame Standards Batting - 23 (600), Average HOFer ≈ 50

JAWS Shortstop (35th), 40.8 career WAR/33.8 7yr-peak WAR/37.3 JAWS
Average HOF SS (out of 21) = 66.7 career WAR/42.8 7yr-peak WAR/54.8 JAWS

And look at the writers' voting:

Hall of Fame
1956 BBWAA ( 0.5%)
1962 BBWAA (27.5%)
1964 BBWAA (22.4%)
1964 Run Off ( 5.5%)
1966 BBWAA (17.9%)
1967 BBWAA (24.3%)
1967 Run Off ( 4.6%)
1968 BBWAA (26.1%)
1969 BBWAA (22.9%)
1970 BBWAA (26.3%)
1971 BBWAA (25.6%)
1972 BBWAA (26.0%)
1973 BBWAA (29.2%)
1974 BBWAA (30.4%)
1975 BBWAA (32.3%)
1976 BBWAA (38.4%)

Hey Peter

You (and some others here) are wasting your time trying to play the "numbers game" regarding why Rizzuto should not be in the HOF.

As I have said twice already in this thread, Ted Williams thought very highly of Phil's team play. Furthermore, Ted considered Phil to be
a very key factor in the Yankees winning 8 - AL Championships in the course of 10 years.

Therefore, Ted was very instrumental getting Phil into the HOF.

Now, tell me....who are we to question Ted Williams' opinion of a player (Rizzuto) that he closely observed for 12 years of his career ? ?


TED Z
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Everyone including Ted Williams himself is subject to bias. Look at all the players Frank Frisch promoted, he saw them too. But most would argue he was guilty of cronyism.

If Ted Williams' opinions of the "Scooter" are frozen, I doubt that he will be changing his mind anytime soon regardless of what the forum thinks.

I think I'm more of a HOF than Dom DiMaggio. Jeezeeeeeeee. Now that truly can't be a serious acquisition.

Agreed on Scooter not being a HOF either.

As well as whomever said the disappointment of Diamond Star fans on how many shouldn't be in.

baaaaaaahahahaha!

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It really isn't. 80 runs a year skewed by 30% of them being crammed into two outstanding years. He had 5 full seasons under 70 runs during his career.

Attendance that day at Yankee Stadium: 7,177. Boy...times have changed!

Scooter...............

Because he was the greatest announcer in history!! Who else would say things like:

"Well, its Tuesday so that means that Scooter and Anne down in Florida are bar-b-queing some good on the grill right about now. And hey, i had a great cannoli at Luigi's last nite after the game, really great. Wasn't that traffic on the George Washington Bridge terrible today? Hey, its the 7th inning, I gotta leave to beat the traffic home!!".

"The Scooter"
 

Ok guys......say what you may regarding Rizzuto. Here's an anecdotal story that I would like to share with you.

April 1984, I was at Newark Airport going to Chicago on business. Standing in front of me at the ticket counter was Phil flying out to Comiskey Park.

I tapped him on the shoulder, and we started talking about our old neighborhood. We proceeded to the gate for our flight. Our flight was delayed
for a couple of hours and Phil kept bringing over coffee as we reminisced about our neighborhood, our families, and our neighbors. Phil and Cora
still lived in their modest English Tudor home in Hillside, NJ. At that time, I lived in Toms River (NJ).

We boarded the 737. I was back in coach and Phil was in 1st class. Then, I saw Phil approaching me. He invited me to sit in 1st class with him. It
was fine with the Stewardess.

For 2 hours, Phil and I were "talkin baseball". Or, I should say Phil did most of the talking and I did most of the listening. Phil enthusiastically told
me about many of the big name ballplayers he played with. I asked him about several of my favorites back the late 1940's and 1950's and he had
an interesting story for each of them.

The 2-hour flight wasn't enough, I could of listened to Phil for many hours and hours. The man was an awesome person to know. I fully agree with
Ted Williams....Phil was a very important factor in the Yankees Championship years (1941..1942..1947..1949 - 1953).

"That's all folks !"


TED Z
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And Seinfeld

Because he plaied a great part in the song "paradise by the dashboard light"?

that should qualify him for the rock and roll hof!

The year before Rizzuto got in via the vets commite, Charlie Gehringer, a long time member who always spoke against Phil, died. Charlie and another member had to be replaced. The 2 replacements were Pee Wee Reese and Yogi Berra. They and Bill White were long time Rizzuto friends on the 18 member vets committe. When I heard this, I said to my friend Ted z that Phil was a lock to get in the next year and I was right.

The Two Teds got it right
 

I like the Two Teds' response better than mine but I'll share it anyway:

Some believe the National Baseball Hall of Fame ought to include more than the first 25 or so players. If nearly 20,000 played big league baseball (and a few thousand others were barred but were of MLB quality), then a reasonable HOF membership might be 3-5 percent, perhaps less. If 2% is right, then there ought to be 350-400 players enshrined. (I didn't count them but, exclusive of officials, umps, etc., there are a whole lot less than 350 players as members.) Therefore, Phil Rizzuto belongs - he just got there a little before he "should" have, according to some folks. Like I said, I like Ted Z's and Ted W's answer better. (See below if you missed it.)

Interesting that Williams would be so high on Rizzuto and not on his own ss Pesky. Pesky's numbers are comparable to Phil's and he played fewer years.

Their defense might have had something to do with it; the Yankee infield had a reputation for being airtight, while in Summer of '49, Halberstam seems bearish on Pesky's defense.

Per baseball reference I did not see much difference in the their defensive stats.