Anyone watching probstein auctions
 

He listed some really nice cards . Im watching the Mays rookie . I can't believe the insane climb already .

you have all been warned about probsteins auctions...you have only yourself to blame!

there's some monsters today!

+1

I haven't been Probed in nearly 4 years.

Funny how he and pwcc get 100+ watchers, yet very few from the boards

Ditto.

I'm not a buyer lol. I just a gawker !

Yes very nice cards eBay.

agreed. And the prices realized seem to be staggering....

I wouldn't be surprised if there are several from the boards watching, they're probably just not posting about it. Although I must admit I'm watching that Mays. It's out of my league, but I am curious to see what it will close for.

And have a regular seller with the same card, and it's nowhere near the eyeballs.....odd.

I would bet there are several from the boards bidding and consigning. Some even on the same item.;):eek:

true dat!

Every time I happen to click a card I like and see Probstein or PWCC, I just turn and walk away.


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Please be careful about our name rule which is at the top of every page.....if someone said that about your auction would you maybe want to know who they were?

That cracked me up!!!!

PWCC may not be the cheapest at the end of the day every time but I've gotten some nice items at fiar prices. A number of times. Just sayin.

How is a card so badly off centered graded an 8? According to psa standards shouldn't that be a 6 or 7?
I have bought cards from him before. I just snipe what I think the card is worth.

All I meant was most of their stuff ends up way too rich for my blood. They both advertise everywhere. Did not mean to offend. Apologies.


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No worries. It has nothing to do with where they advertise. This board is different than most in that the name rules (having your name next to your comment when necessary) are in bold print at the top of every page and are enforced as much as possible. Nothing personal....Happy collecting!!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1951-Bowman-...kAAOSw2ENW8C~T

This the one everyone is talking about? The PSA 8 over 20K?
I sold my Mays PSA 7OC on Ebay last year and thought it brought good money then, for what folks considered a 5 because of the OC
http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/GjsAAO...-1J/s-l500.jpg So are we saying the flip says it all? or can we not say that this one should of received a OC as well?
But after looking- Back in December a 7 from Singapore got 9900 and a 6.5 got 8714 in march 20.

that singapore guy has a looot of nice cards....guess he brought his collection over there while he worked there...who knows . but his cards come up time to time..

The 8 up now is probably about as close to an OC qualifier as a card could be while still keeping such a high grade. A small fraction of an inch more top to bottom and that card loses about 90% of its value. Pretty crazy when you think about it but that's the way it is.

1951 Bowman mays
 

looks within the centering parameters for an 8 to me. Not sure where some think it needs to be a 6 based on its centering. Agree its not perfectly centered but i have seen much worse (centering) especially in sgc holders.

+1

I prefer a bit of a thinner border on the bottom of the horizontal 51 bowmans .

I wasn't saying it should be a 6 based on centering, just that it looks like it is very close to being OC. And that on a card with this kind of value that small difference on the boarder amounts to a huge difference in price.

Chris's 7 he mentioned was only slightly off top to bottom more than this one.

Right well you sell the holder not the card...

I agree. Even if centering was an issue, the card would get a straight 7 not a 6.....

People need to read the grading standards. I agree.

How does it lose 90 percent of its value? 8s have a tighter centering tolerance than 7s so it would drop to a 7. A big gap still but not 90 percent.

opps!

p***p ( 349Feedback score is 100 to 499) Retracted: US $50,000.00
Bid: Mar-22-16 11:41:31 PDT
Retracted: Mar-22-16 12:09:59 PDT

Looks like another troller looking for max bids.

++ me too.

An 8 to an 8 OC would be about a 90% swing. VCP doesn't have recent data for either but it's 33k vs about 2500. Today it could be 50k vs 5 or 6. Not really sure on thst.

If it got into a 7 holder obviously that's a different story. But I am not completely convinced PSA would only hit a card one grade if someone requested no qualifier. I know that issue has been discussed but it's open to interpretation.

I blame myself for the one time I tried his auction. For sure.

I once went the other direction although the swing wasn't nearly as big as it would be today. Bought a Russell in an 8 oc. Got it into a straight 8. Sold it to the same guy for a multiple of what I had paid. It was hysterical. All about the flip.

Consistency
 

That can't be possible with such strict calibrated grading standards Peter :eek:

Hilarious....the exact same card.

That's a laugh.

Is there a seller that one doesn't have to watch closely for bid retractions, bidders with 90-100% of their history with the same seller, etc.? I watch for that on every auction.

I actually think its one of the positives of eBay that you have that visibility. I've dropped out of auctions where I was bidding against bidders that had a number less than 5 next to their user name (I'm not sure what the number is called). I've also spotted a case where the previous auction types the bidder had bid on were mostly apparel and other stuff. It was suspicious to me that person was suddenly bidding on 1930s football cards - eclectic taste I guess :) And even though I snipe in the end, I usually throw a few bids out to get a feel who is bidding against me. And the final method I use is that if the item is already over my valuation on the last day which happens - I walk away - no reason to set a snipe in that case. Of course there are sellers I won't deal with - but I'm pretty lenient - the alternative - dealing with sellers where I feel there is 0% chance of an auction being tampered would be kind of boring and maybe impossible because of the nature of the system.

The flip is all.

2 bids in the last 30 days, 1 cancellation. Something is rotten in Denmark. God, is there a legitimate eBay seller anymore?

Tony
 

A laugh ? How it is well documented that many early sgc graded cards during the merkle era were not judged harshly at all in fact when I worked at sgc it was not a guarantee that cards graded during the merkle regime would be regraded with the same grade as many were outside the tolerance not sure exactly what you meant but your wrong if you were disagreeing with me. It is honestly not just merkle era grades either as it is often discussed throughout the industry how sgc is not as strict on centering.It is well within the 70-30 PSA says it can be and still get an 8 ( I agree you seldom see a 70-30 card in an 8): PSA NM-MT 8 is a super high-end card that appears Mint 9 at first glance, but upon closer inspection, the card can exhibit the following: a very slight wax stain on reverse, slightest fraying at one or two corners, a minor printing imperfection, and/or slightly off-white borders. Centering must be approximately 65/35 to 70/30 or better on the front and 90/10 or better on the reverse.

Still a few good ones. Getting fewer I am afraid

What's everyone's consensus on gregmorriscards? 100% feedback, cards always look good. Trim jobs, or just a good seller selling a quality product?

Do you have before and after scans?

I am NOT speaking of any company specifically, in regards to this thread itself...but I can comment about first hand experiences in regards to 3rd party marketplace sellers/resellers.

I am in the E-Commerce business, and spend a fair amount of time with my clients who are the 3rd party sellers on sites "like" Ebay, Amazon, Wal Mart. com etc... I have seen it with my own eyes, in a Brooklyn basement, a room with 10-12 guys on computers, that are all making listings, bidding, manipulating, sales, rankings, etc. These guys in one room would also have anywhere between 5-10 different storefront names each, otherwise anywhere between 100-150 different usernames/storefronts, buying/selling/making transactions all day everyday on each others accounts, all under the guise of different people all around the world. Bidding up auction pricing, shill bidding hundreds of auctions, and manipulating any given market. Between the group, they can build what looks to be a reputable storefront, with great ratings, without any product or money ever exchanging hands. These guys burn thru about $2-$3 million per month, and for the most part...aren't even touching the product. They are literally being paid to manipulate the market. The manufacturers of these goods "act" like they absolutely hate it...yet wont do anything to stop it, because those same "ghost" transactions/company fronts, are the same ones building the ratings....in tern, get people to buy a product...that otherwise wouldn't ever show up on anyone's radar. Whether it be sporting goods, vintage collectibles, electronics, or home goods...the manipulation of auctions, and market pricing happens, and happens ALOT!!!

I have won several cards from Greg Morris and have not had any issues.

No it was many many years ago, probably in the 90s.

I've bought quite a few things over the years from Greg Morris and have never had even an inkling of a problem with the cards.

Edited to add: I don't want to kick up any dust here, but it's important to note that the end prices of his auctions have (seemingly?) continued to go up. Could be he has many more people following his auctions or it possibly could be something more nefarious. Dunno. Take it for what it's worth.

Hi, I have been on this board for around 6 months now and have enjoyed all of the interactions thus far. I guess the one thing I am i scratch my head at is why there is some sort of conspiracy theory around every high volume dealer on ebay. I have had many successful transactions with most of dealers that get called out on the board and have not experienced the issues. What am I missing?

who the hell is Greg Morris??

See post 44 above. He's a major card dealer from way back who does set breaks on Ebay.

He played Barney on the original and awesome Mission Impossible TV series....:)

Glyn
 

I don't when the "Merkle era" was nor do I care. I am talking about today's grading. I don' buy the holder, but the card. My experience leads me to SGC. I have been burned too many times by the sub standard grading at PSA. I intentionally buy PSA cards only to break them out and resubmit to SGC where they usually receive at least half grade lower. Again that's my experience.

I completely disagree. In my opinion PSA is much stricter these days.

That doesn't seem like an economically sound strategy as SGC cards typically sell at substantially lower prices than the same card in an equivalent PSA holder.

It really depends on the "problem" with the card. They grade cards very differently.

I say problem because that is really all they do is point out the problems on with a card.

Fair enough but I was talking about corner wear and centering. There are numerous SGC 8s that would get 7s and SGC 7s that would get 6s; at those grades the problems are corners and centering.

Why anyone would send their cards to a company that cant tell the difference between Karl Malden and Karl Malone is beyond me. Thats just plain dumb!

Before i joined this forum I had no idea that other collectors did not see bgs, psa , sgc in the same light as collectors I know .l I would never switch my cards from BGS or psa to SGC . The price for a psa and sgc card in the same grade can be staggering . Let along to get a lower grade from sgc .

Until recently, I tended to favor buying SGC cards--since the look is so important for me. But the pricing differential with PSA has only grown and so now I've given up. I will still buy SGC for pre-1900 cards and a few scattered others but otherwise it makes no sense at all, sorry to say. People argue here on and on about which company is stricter, or more fair, or has better service, etc., but it seems that the people have spoken--for whatever reason, they see PSA grades as far more credible, right or wrong.

Although always interesting to ask: exactly WHY?

Two reasons of many -
1-Because they advertise like crazy and have gotten much free hype in and out of the hobby.
2-Many people are sheep.

Richard- What exactly are you saying?

Seems crystal clear!

How so? Because PSA cards bring a premium over SGC??

delete...beating a dead horse

LOL.....this debate is almost as old as "what came first - the chicken or the egg". I'm speaking tongue in cheek of course, but....

The above poster is right. PSA advertises like crazy, and people are sheep. SGC does a very honorable job of grading cards and I love the way they look in the cases.

That being said, when it comes time to sell, they get NOWHERE near the prices of PSA. If someone is selling a card in SGC and they see it selling for a fraction of the PSA counterpart, of course they aren't going to want to sell any more SGC's. Now, if the SGC buyers would SUPPORT the .99 cent auctions on Ebay of SGC cards and help drive the prices up to even close of what the PSA cards are..........that hasn't happened so far though.

Not that anyone else cares...
 

I am a huge SGC fan...
As a COLLECTOR
I think the cards look much better in their holders.
As for premium pricing, I know it is not there for SGC but that doesn't bother me.
I have had 2 cards in PSA holders that I attempted to get crossed to SGC and they can back as trimmed. They were National Chicle football cards and no, I do not have scans. I feel the standards are strict at SGC except, of course, on centering. But that has been adequately discussed

I can't get the thought of a Karl Malden basketball card out of my head now.

I fully admit if someone has what I want, I am a buyer. I have bought from both and due to the well known issues I will only do it with a sniping service and just use a price point I feel is fair and never feel bad about an outbid.

As they get crazy prices, I rarely win from them. However, they do pack and ship well.

I havent seen a 'set break' auction on ebay with 95% of the cards being SGC in a long time post war...probably not even prewar either but i dont follow that end as much...it seems every week PWCC has a 'set break' PSA auction..

IF SGC would fo been the one to grade those Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb backs that could of helped them with their prewar niche everyone argues with me about when i say PSA is the way to go

So at least they have that last part going for them (shipping and packing) which is nice
I have bought from both but certainly know my limits bidding heading into it

There is no strategy. There happens to be many more psa commons that I need than sgc. I collect sgc 80 or better. I have tried numerous times , without much success, to crossover to sgc and always being met with "does not minimum grade requested". So I buy psa one grade higher.

Fair enough of you're happy with what you end up with that is all that matters. For the cards I collect if I paid the PSA price and sent it to SGC for a 1/2 point deduction, or even the same grade, I would take a big hit.

These auctions end tonight ! Can't wait to see were some of these end . The 1951 Mays is already over 46,000

54' topps Mays psa 9 at 10k now as well...

the 1954s psa 8+s have really taken off

For anybody who didn't watch . The willie Mays rookie went for 51,875 .

But a psa 10 1959 Willie Mays sold for 75,375 😵

Before I jumped into this hobby several years ago I did diligent research and read tons of threads on this board about SGC vs. PSA. I decided to go with SGC as they seemed to be the PRe-War favorite at the time. The first graded card I ever had was a Willie Mays and the PSA holder seemed flimsy. I bought strictly SGC cards until one day slipping up and purchasing a Nap Lajoie Portrait in a PSA case. It was love at first site. I have bought mostly PSA since and am seriouly considering moving my SGC cards to PSA holders for conformity. I still think that SGC is a better grader and their cases are rock solid, but are bulky, heavy and take up a lot more space than the PSA cards. Space is finite at my house with three boys and another child on the way. I choose PSA for more practical purposes and find both companies to be very good at what they do. I have had good experiences with both and wouldnt balk at buying a SGC card if it was the right card.

So it stands to reason that you would buy a PSA if it wasnt the right card...

That's false logic. Saying that I would do one thing does not imply I would do another. I would buy an SGC graded card if it was the right card, meaning that if it was what I was looking for or a good value. You can always send it to PSA to have it graded there if you want the uniformity.