2016 Hall of Fame Choices
 

My 2016 Baseball Hall of Fame choices are included below. There is a limit of 10 players allowed per ballot so there are some other worthy candidates that I could not include but will include in future years. Good luck to all the candidates!

Curt Schilling
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Mark McGuire
Jeff Bagwell
Jeff Kent
Ken Griffey, Jr.
Alan Trammell (last year eligible)
Mike Piazza
Sammy Sosa

WAY too many steroid/PED guys on that list!

Greg

Doubt 2,3,4 & 10 will make it this time around

from that list, is griffey the only one sure to get in this year?

Griffey / Piazza, that's it

Griffey, Piazza, and Lee Smith

+1

I can't believe how little support Jeff Kent gets. What an absolute monster of an offensive 2nd baseman he was!!!! If we're choosing a team, I want Jeff kent at second!!!

Griffey , Jr and Piazza appear to me to be the only sure choices. Jeff Kent, Alan Trammell, Tim Raines , Lee Smith, Mike Mussina , and Fred McGriff continue to get little respect for a variety of reasons. Jeff Bagwell it appears is destined to get elected eventually . The next several years of candidates appear overall to be mediocre at best for the long run which might help some of theses guys.

Griffey Jr., Piazza. Bagwell appears to have a decent shot this time. Too many ignorant / self righteous types have a vote however. The guy who only voted for 2 , which has been done this time around already, is bush league. Should have their voting privileges taken away IMO.

Agree. Won an MVP and has the most HR's by a 2nd baseman. Tough to pass that up for his position.

I disagree... I would much rather have a finesse type... defense oriented second basement with a decent batting average then kents type of production. So what he had the most homeruns of a second baseman... That does not put him in the Hall of Fame in my opinion .

Fair enough.

Out of 20 second baseman in the HOF, here is where Kent would rank out of the 20 if he were elected:


Hits: 11th
HR's: 1st
RBI: 3rd
BA: 10th
R's: 11th

Every 2nd baseman to win MVP is in the HOF, excluding Pedroia.

Totally agree with the Kent posts. Raines has been getting some deserved love as well. I think if they voted Jim Rice in that Dale Murphy should get in.

Griffey will get in. Raines, Bagwell, Piazza lookin good. Kent eliminated.

Kent will get about 13%. He'll stay on

Kent went out of his way to be a flaming ahole to everyone he met. I know it probably shouldn't be factored in but human nature is human nature.

Piazza was a horrible defensive catcher. I don't think he deserves induction. The only candidate I would vote for is Griffey.

Id vote for
 

everyone on the op list but Schilling. I would vote for Raines instead. Schilling Not quite a Hall of Famer IMHO. The best statistical Juicers should get in, hell there are a few already in. Also in my opinion Piazza was as likely to have juiced as several on that list that people call juicers. There are plenty of not so stand up guys and outright cheaters already in so its kind of bs not to put some of them in. Honestly i am kind of sick of the older sportswriters keeping so many of the generation i grew up with and those right after from getting in the hall. I of course am for more not less in the hall so that may color my opinion.

Schillling, Bonds, Griffey, Piazza, Raines

+infinity on Piazza.

Completely agree. Sportswriters are notoriously a bunch of people who never "did" but talk crap about those who "do".

Uh, how does Trevor Hoffman get left off of this list? First player at 600 saves and one of the highest success rates at closing games. How does he get left off this top 10 list? If you're going to say that Trevor was a one trick pony then what are you saying about the other closers that are enshrined? Trevor Hoffman should be a first ballot HOF (as should Mariano when he becomes eligible).

Agree.

He still has a shot this year, but at 62% so far, more likely wait 'til next year.

Good point Fred. Hoffman is a HOFer in my book.

I agree that Trevor Hoffman should eventually get in. A couple of knocks against him are no Cy Young award ( 2 second place finishes ) , not much of an MVP voting record , and not enough on the playoff stage to showcase his talent nationally.

There is another thread over in the the 'All Sports Discussion' section that is at 100+ replies. Some pretty good points being made in that thread if you wanna check it out.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=214261

Back to Kent…it is hilarious to me for someone to say they prefer a 'finesse' type of second baseman. Ha ha!!!!!

The point of baseball is to score runs. That's how you win. Look how many frickin' RBI's Jeff Kent had in a nine year span:
121
128
101
125
106
108
93
107
105

That is insanely monstrous for a second baseman!!! And he's a career .290 hitter with 1,500 RBI's, not to mention his HR total. That is unbelievable production. The guy belongs in Cooperstown. Come on now!!

Some may knock his fielding. Sure, point taken. But if a guy's supposedly weak fielding somehow led to his team surrendering a run here and there, but he knocked in 100+ runs year after year after year from second base, who in heck wouldn't take that any day of the week????!!!!!

To add some context: If I'm not mistaken, Cano led all second baseman in RBI's this past season with a total in the 70's. Kent's totals (above) were regularly about 30-50% higher than that during the listed timespan.

I agree with Jolly Elm about Jeff Kent. Also if his defense was that questionable how did he last so long in MLB as well as the National League ? Plus check his lifetime fielding % at second base . I believe it was .980 which is not too shabby. Now some people say he had limited range compared to other second baseman and did not " go after " some balls like he should have . But his offense outweighs all that in my opinion.

For all of you guys who are knocking Piazza for being a liability behind the dish what is your argument about The Big Hurt and in a couple years Big Papi getting in the hall? For a majority of their careers they didn't even play the field and catching is by far the most grueling position on the field.

I'll vote for:

Bonds
Clemens
Griffey
Piazza
Raines
Mussina
Kent
Bagwell
Hoffman

This would be my list. I may add Lee Smith and Trevor Hoffman next year if a few get in this year and not much gets added to the ballot.

Mike Piazza
Jeff Bagwell
Tim Raines
Roger Clemens
Barry Bonds
Jeff Kent
Larry Walker
Ken Griffey Jr
Jim Edmonds

Tom C

https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?...C7uZHAmcVGWgwE

That is a tracking of the public votes (143 so far). In 2015, that tracking was generally withing 5% of the actual % the player ended up getting (with one or two exceptions).

As such, it looks like Griffey and Piazza might be locks this year, and Raines and Bagwell are looking pretty darn good this year as well.

Tom C

I just cannot believe Trammell not getting any respect from anyone. The guys offensive numbers are on the bubble for his position, for HOF enshrinement, but when you add in his defensive achievements, he should walk into the Hall of Fame. Four gold gloves, and three silver sluggers awards, 7 times an all star, I believe 7 times getting votes as League MVP, In his career, he only struck out 24 more times then he walked. Career on base percentage of 352 for a shortstop. His one and only time he played in the World Series and he won the MVP. His WAR number just behind Jeter. And not one consideration, WOW. I am surprised.

Tough to disagree with this. I didn't realize that this is his final year on the ballot. I may have added him to my list with that being the case.

I am very surprised that Jim Edmonds may not even get 5% of the vote. 8 Gold Glove awards. 393 career homers. 1191 RBI and 1251 Runs. .284 batting average. .376 OBP. 132 OPS+ for a great defensive center fielder. Lots of post season experience including 13 homers and .274 batting average. Maybe not quite a HOFer, but he certainly does not deserve to get the Ted Simmons treatment either.

Tom C

Very surprised at the total lack of love for Fred McGriff. As far as I know there's never been a word spoken of him juicing and he's only 7 homers away from 500. 284 career average is pretty top flight for a slugger. I guess playing during the cartoonish steroid era is what's holding him back, but come on. The guy could hit with the best of them.

RE: Piazza, even with his early success on the public ballots he still needs 7 out of every 10 vote to get in. That's going to be tough and if he doesn't get in this year, I don't think he ever gets in. This is his weakest competition in terms of competing for votes.

Griffey, period. Piazza doesn't feel quite like an all-time great to me, and that's where I draw the line. Although you could certainly make a case for him statistically.

While I don't think some of these guys would get voted in...

Griffey
Bonds
McGriff
Morris
Bagwell

He bounced around with a lot of teams, and never had a really monster year I don't think. No higher than 4th in MVP voting, only led the league in anything twice. All that hurts him. But if Rice, Cepeda, and Dawson are in, it's hard to say why them and not him.

Piazza is getting in this year. He is at 87% of the 143 publicly revealed votes. Last year no one on the ballot had a differential greater than 7% from the publicly revealed votes to their actual vote total. Griffey will be in (obviously) as he is at 100% of the public total. Raines and Bagwell look like they have a good shot, as both are at a shade over 80% of the public vote totals.

Tom C

Hof
 

Griffey and Piazza for me. In the immortal words of Tony Kornheiser, 'That's it - that's the list.'

I think you're right about McGriff. But he did hit 30 homers 10 times and drove in 100 runs 8 times. None of that seems as big as it should in the context of his inflated era, but hitters like him are rare. Especially since he had the ability to hit for average (for a slugger) too.

2016 hof
 

2016 HOF - Griffey, Piazza and Bagwell.

McGriff was never seen as an elite player during his career. Never remotely close to an MVP (4th once). Never hit 40 HRs. Never reached 110 RBI in a season. Maybe he reaches those numbers in 1994 but we'll never know. Point being, he was never seen as a tip-top guy during his career. Then hanging around for 2 years as a terrible player who was obviously trying to get to 500 HRs hurt his legacy a bit.

In my eyes, Edmonds should probably be in the HOF. Elite-level defense at a very difficult position, multiple 40 HR seasons, career 132 OPS+ - what else do you want?

4 AS teams. Never above 4th in MVP and only two top 10s. Didn't reach 2000 hits. Baseball reference numbers:

Gray Ink Batting - 60 (426), Average HOFer ≈ 144

Hall of Fame Monitor Batting - 88 (202), Likely HOFer ≈ 100

Hall of Fame Standards Batting - 39 (175), Average HOFer ≈ 50

JAWS Center Field (14th), 60.3 career WAR/42.5 7yr-peak WAR/51.4 JAWS
Average HOF CF (out of 18) = 70.4 career WAR/44.0 7yr-peak WAR/57.2 JAWS

In a word, no. In two words, no way.

And that's the flip-side :)

My vote;

Griffey
Bagwell
Piazza
Trammell

Sounds as if you are referring to Eddie Murray.....although "steady Eddie" finished second in MVP voting twice. Murray stunk up the league the last 3 years of his career to reach 500 home runs. Yes, Murray reached the 3000 hit plateau, but give McGriff an additional 3000+ at bats, and McGriff would be right there, actually blow by Eddie in home runs. McGriff should be in.

Eddie Murray never hit 40 home runs in a season either, granted he did reach your magical 110 rbi plateau 5 times. Murray hung around for three years to reach 500 home runs. Given PEDS and inflated numbers, everyone should get behind McGriff, who put up clean numbers.

Mike Mussina won 270 games (era a tad high), look around fellas when do you think a player will post 270 career wins? Pedro had 219 wins, Schilling 216, show Moose some respect. We might not see another 300 win pitcher in our lifetime. I think 250 wins will be the new barometer of greatness.

Another guy who ironically perhaps was too consistent and not occasionally spectacular enough. But his numbers are quite good and it's surprising how little attention he has received.

Peter,

Are you so sure?

Take a look at JAWS using Fangraphs WAR instead of the BR WAR that you used. There are four HOFers at the CF position who are so far above the rest that they skew any "averages" as a result. Their career WAR numbers are so high that do you know whose career WAR is only a very small amount "above average" for a HOFer?

Ken Griffey Jr.

If you take Mays, Mantle, Cobb and Speaker out of the equation, take a look at where Edmonds rates against HOF CF in career WAR per Fangraphs:

DiMaggio 83.1
Griffey Jr 77.7
Hamilton (Billy) 70.3
Edmonds 64.5
Snider 63.5
Carey 60.1
Dawson 59.5
Ashburn 57.4
Doby 51.1
Roush 49.6
Duffy 48.3
Averill 47.9
Puckett 44.9
Wilson 42.1
Combs 41.3

Those are the OF used in the JAWS calculation on BR (plus Griffeyband Edmonds).

How about peak 7 year WAR without Cobb or Mantle or Mays or Speaker factored in?

DiMaggio 52.5
Griffey 51.1
Snider 47.5
Edmonds 45.4
Hamilton 45.2
Ashburn 40.8
Doby 39.8
Dawson 38.4
Wilson 38.4
Averill 37.3
Duffy 35.8
Carey 34.4
Puckett 33.9
Combs 33.3
Roush 32.7

Yet Edmonds is going to get less than 5% of the vote and not be eligible again? Seriously?

Tom C

Similarity ScoresExplanation of Similarity Scores


Similar Batters
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Compare Stats to Similars
1.Lance Berkman (910)
2.Ellis Burks (908)
3.Duke Snider (902) *
4.Shawn Green (886)
5.Dale Murphy (877)
6.Fred Lynn (877)
7.Larry Walker (873)
8.Alfonso Soriano (871)
9.Andruw Jones (871)
10.Moises Alou (870)
* - Signifies Hall of Famer

Most Similar by Ages
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Hold mouse over #'s to see names
25.Ivan Calderon (980) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
26.Bobby Higginson (975) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
27.Bobby Higginson (966) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
28.Larry Doby (962) * 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
29.Corey Hart (951) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
30.J.D. Drew (965) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
31.Jason Bay (944) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
32.Tim Salmon (927) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
33.Tim Salmon (932) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
34.Tim Salmon (921) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
35.Tim Salmon (913) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
36.Lance Berkman (914) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
37.Lance Berkman (925) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
38.Ellis Burks (903) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C
40.Jason Giambi (879) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C

All well and good, but he is a .284 hitter with 1900 hits. Who never led the league in a single category. I'm not beating the drum on this one.

Similarity scores are offense only and not position specific.

Tom C

I'm not saying he is a HOFer...but one and done? He's getting the Ted Simmons treatment?

Tom C

Also, are we really going with batting average as a top factor for HOF consideration? This isn't 1925 anymore.

Tom C

Fair enough, he was a very good player. Simmons was closer to a HOFer though I think.

I would agree. But both are going to be one time only players on the ballot it looks like.

I just don't get it.

Tom C

Defense only gets one into the hall of fame if by chance ones career happens to include a walk off home run in the seventh game of the World Series.

Very true. And apparently legendary defense plus 393 career home runs and an OPS+ of 132 gets you less than 5% of the vote.

Bah.

Tom C

I've said on more than one occasion that I think Trammell deserves induction, and I included him on my ballot in the other discussion on the sports talk page.

He compares quite favorably with other Hall of Fame shortstops:

The average career WAR of HoF shortstops: 66.7. Trammell's career WAR: 70.4
The average 7-year peak WAR of HoF shortstops: 42.8 WAR. Trammell's 7 year peak: 44.6

Compare his seven year peak WAR to that of his contemporary, Robin Yount, who is in the Hall of Fame: 47.2 WAR

I also happen to think Trammell's double play partner, Lou Whitaker, deserves serious consideration for the Hall. Inexplicably, he received only 2.9% of the vote the one time he appeared on the ballot. When you look at Whitaker's similarity scores, and see the players he is most similar to are Ryne Sandberg, Trammell, Roberto Alomar, Buddy Bell and Joe Morgan, I don't get the lack of support for his induction. Whitaker was a Rookie of the Year, a five-time All Star, won three Gold Gloves, four Silver Sluggers, and his 74.9 WAR is eleventh all-time at the position. His lifetime stats are quite good for the position: 1,386 runs scored, 2,369 hits, 420 doubles, 244 home runs, 1,084 RBI, 143 SB, 1,197 BB vs 1,099 Ks, and a .363/.426/.789 slash line.

By the way, Jeff Kent's career WAR is only 55.2. His numbers, at first glance, are far sexier than Whitaker's, but Kent also played during one of the greatest offensive boons in baseball history. Put it this way, between 1977 and 1995 (the years Whitaker played the game), there were 3 50 home run seasons. Between 1992 and 2008 (the years Kent played the game), there were 23 50 home run seasons. 100 RBI seasons? Between 1977 and 1995, there were 284. Between 1992 and 2008, there were 584. The difference in 100 RBI seasons between Whitaker's era and Kent's, 300, is more than the total of 100 RBI seasons in the entirety of Whitaker's era. This is why context is always important when judging a player based solely on their statistics. Another statistic to consider: there were 11 130 RBI seasons between 1977 and 1995. There were 76 130 RBI seasons between 1992 and 2008.

In Jeff Kent's best RBI season, 1998 when he had 128, there were 42 players in the Majors who drove in over 100 runs. While Kent was certainly an offensive force, some perspective is needed. In his MVP season, he had a 1.021 OPS. Most years, that would lead the league, if not the Majors. His OPS was only the third highest on his own team. Ellis Burks had a 1.025 OPS, and Barry Bonds had a 1.127 OPS. In fact, his 1.021 OPS was 17th best in the Majors (450 PA's minimum), behind such superstars like Brian Giles and Richard Hidalgo.

Kent will likely make the Hall, and I'm not saying that he is undeserving. But he's not the slam dunk some are making him out to be.

I don't know, I think being the very best defender to ever play ones position makes for a pretty compelling case all by itself.

I totally agree with Bill Mazeroski that "defense belongs in the hall of fame". I just don't think the people who vote feel the same way. I also agree that Whitaker and Trammell should be enshrined.

Peter Gammons' 2016 HoF selections
 

I like Peter Gammons' 2016 Hall of Fame selections and most of his reasoning in a recent MLB Tonight interview:

Jeff Bagwell
Ken Griffey, Jr.
Edgar Martinez
Fred McGriff
Mike Mussina
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker

Gammons added that he would like to have voted for three or four more.

PED's were discussed briefly and the cases of Bonds/Clemens (not among PG's selections) vs. some on his ballot who have only been hinted as possible abusers. A link to the interview: http://m.mlb.com/bal/video/topic/600...of-fame-ballot

As one who would like to see an enlarged Hall of Fame membership, I identify with most of Peter Gammons' comments and every one of his picks - including those he excluded.

And Mazeroski isn't the only one. Ozzie Smith, Brooks Robinson, Rabbit Maranville and several catchers are in the hof based on their defense.