Buying all #332 Tony Bartirome 1952 Topps cards + his Gold Canary + Griffey + Tiger
 

I am on a mission to buy all of Tony Bartirome's 1952 Topps cards that are in existence. It is HIGH card #332.

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/...psamjot1ap.jpg

This is my a family member & trying to secure them for family, relatives, grand kids in the future. Whenever they pop up on eBay I buy them. I will pay a premium.

Still need the PSA 9's that are out there & will pay $5,000 for one (one I saw on a private card website sold for $3000 or so).

Will pay $1,500 for a PSA 8 (the ones I see that sold on private card websites were $600-$700).

Also there are 12 BGS graded Bartirome, but I don't have one of them nor have I ever seen them. Would like to find those too.

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/...psow7ebf0y.jpg

I have 1 of the 10 Gold Canary cards of him from the 2011 Topps Lineage. Looking for the other 9 as well.

Send a PM! Or text 213 399 3335[/SIZE]

Wow....Tony must have a LOT of relatives......

I wonder how many, or if anyone needs this card to complete a set... And how many 52 topps high number cards of the sample player does one have to own to actually affect supply to where it causes an actual increase in price?

I need Bartirome for my set.....I'm not sure someone could pull a Hunt Brothers on a single 1952 Topps High number. I would have no way to estimate how many of a single number were produced. A LOT, by all accounts, became fish food, so I guess you're starting from a much lower number to begin with. Great display of centered cards. Hard to find 52 Highs that consistently centered. Assuming he has a discriminating taste or maybe this card is more frequently found centered, don't know. Good luck on your quest!

I noticed quite a few of the 1983 Topps reprints of Bartirome for $6-$15 on ebay.....

a lot more than what hes buying , plus hes not prepared to pay 2x 3x the price on 707cards and Deans cards whatever so a .5 increase isnt going to do much..plus many many hi grade sets already with the card on the registry.....plus as we all know in future years card collecting in general will have less people in the hobby until you show me that more people on the registry are younger than older that will be the case..

I did buy 707's
 

I just bit the bullet & bought 707's 2 for $600+.

So I am prepared to pay 2x - 3x the price. Just depends on my mood, & current expendable funds.

I see Mile High & HA auctions sold #332 PSA 6, PSA 7 and PSA 8's for 50% of what I would have paid for them on eBay.
I mean $597 for a PSA 8 #332 !?!? http://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball-ca...=ha-rss-search
And $626 for another one!?!? http://www.goodwinandco.com/lot-5062.aspx
What is wrong with HA and Goodwin!?!? Don't they know a PSA 8 sells for $1,000 on eBay!?!? Wish I was aware of these auction houses when they were offered! Who are these owners!? I would love to offer them double then what they paid.

I wish I had started buying this card 5+ years ago. & wish I was aware that people are actually selling them anywhere other then eBay. I'm confused why people would cosign them over to HA, Mile High, Sirius, etc & get 25% of what they would get on eBay for them. 6% fees on eBay isn't that scary!

1952boyntoncollector, you believe 1952 Topps cards will decrease in value? I don't know why you believe less people will be in the hobby. As the population increases by tens of millions more, why wouldn't there be just as many if not more collectors of legendary sets like 1952 Topps & prior?

not sure why you encouraging these over market sellers to keep prices over market..i guess these sellers are hoping everyone has a distant relative that was a major leaguer


the reason i thought you wouldnt pay 2-3 x over market price was this comment:

"I will pay you a small premium above actual market selling prices, but not 2-3x value"


As for the hobby in general..i dont think im alone in that i believe there will be decline overall in vintage cards in 10 years or so.....always a market for Ruth etc but not PSA 8 commons that are going for $600 etc...plus the ebb and flow of the economy ........for 1952s..until you show me that the top 30 set collectors have an average age under 50 i will hold my position that the demand will decline for the commons versus supply..

Autograf - you peaked my interested.I googled "Hunt Brothers", but nothing relevant immediately came up. Tell me the story.

I am trying to own all #332 in existence, & realize it will take decades to do so. Only one by one, set break after set break, by those who hold #332 in sets currently, especially the 32 PSA 8's and 4 PSA 9's.

I now have 37 that need to be graded, & about 50 that already have. That picture of the collection is outdated.

Not encouraging them. Watched Deans Cards offer a few #332's for months & I never caved in to their rip off prices. Apparently others did though. They are no longer available. I kept hounding them, trying to cut a deal, but they wouldn't do it.

Just depends on my expendable funds level. I really hold out on paying a big premium, but catch me on a good day like 707 just got the blessing of being on the receiving end of, & ok, good for them.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Topps-3...-/111785024544

I offered the guy $250 & he said no less then $400! He referred to recent sales. I said THAT WAS ALL ME!!! He held strong. I said OK $275 that's IT!!!! I thought no way in hell any one was going to out offer me, but apparently he sold it for $360 & he thought he was "cutting the guy a deal because he was buying other cards from him". So I was disappointed I missed out on it, & was going to either call his bluff & he'd cave in a week for $275, or I'd come up to $300, but it didn't happen, & he got $360 for a PSA 5. Guess my purchase with 707 gave him that perception that it was worth $400. So yes, my purchases of #332 has impacted the market.

I believe out of the millions of new people on this planet every year, there are hundreds - or thousands? - of new collectors that want to be a part of the vintage baseball card days. I don't see demand dropping. There will be new generations that will want to collect vintage baseball card sets, the same way new generations will collect antique toys, dolls, guns, etc.

My hope is the set holders right now will leave their 1952 Topps sets to their children, & once inherited, they will cosign PWCC's & Probstein's kids to sell them, & I will continue to pick up the SET BREAK #332 cards decades from now!

You've impacted the market from dealers on your own past buys..but you cant say you really impacted teh market until you see real auctions take place...many members here dont even factor in buy it nows when looking at VCPs....and yes set breaks are what lower the prices for all cards....dealers cant command 2-3x market value if there are many people breaking up sets...even the non-patent collectors can wait a few weeks....when you dont see a card in the market for a while thats when the buy it nows do better...

Problem that I am now seeing, & direct proof that I am influencing the actual market, even in an auction style listing for a #332, are these 2 bidders going at it in a bidding war to win it - just to sell it to me:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/361402950360

myrondavis07 won it.
doug.41 was the runner up.

They both understand I pay extra for #332.

Both of them have been bidding against each other for multiple listings of #332 now. If I throw myself into the bidding mix, it creates quite the problem.

A fool and his money are soon parted. Dealers love guys like you.

The Hunt Brothers tried to corner the silver market unsuccessfully in the 1970's I believe.....Tony is still alive huh? Does he still sign through the mail?

the link doesnt show but one auction isnt VCP i saw one go cheap on ebay recently...i guess you will pay extra until you dont.......and that poor guy that overpayed will have noone to sell it too ....all comes to end eventually......i know at least 15 set collectors that have one that arent selling so you may be helping them since they didnt pay a premum but i know a few 1952 hoarders from years ago that had many more examples of the card they wanted compared what you have for #332 and now you can buy those cards with a price that wouldnt give you a second thought that someone may have large amount of the market share on that card because its not reflective on price...

i think one way to raise the market a little is to burn what you have on youtube! Farmers pour out milk to raise milk prices........but i know you state you arent trying to raise the market you have a connection to the ballplayer

I

Having bought two cards from Levi, perhaps you should retract your reference to him in your initial post as a "scammer."

The trick is to let those 2 over pay and get stuck with a few of them. You need to have a price limit set for each grade and stick to it otherwise everybody is just going to take advantage of you.

With your buying habits you are influencing the market and will cost yourself a lot of extra $. Influencing the market is really easy. It only takes 2-4 bidders to artificially drive up prices. I have watched a few members on here do it with buying patterns claiming they are collectors and while they still have the market artificially high they dump their "collection" for a huge profit then rinse and repeat.

Sitting back and laughing at how screwed up this hobby is, is as much a part of the hobby to me as collecting the cards.

Good luck on your quest.

SCF has a Bartirome success from last June. I know I saw several more on SCN in the late spring/early summer months, but I don't have a premium membership so I can't look those up.

Done. Really don't appreciate their lack of compromise or flexibility, so my opinion of them stands, regardless of buying from them to further a goal, but the words have been removed.

Just paid $750 for a PSA 7.5 & that was a private sale from Ed Hazuka. Not worried about market price. Just trying to obtain many examples of each grade for personal family collection of Tony.

Are you saying those 1952 hoarders you know will or won't sell their #332 duplicates? Put out the word to them, & the 15 set holders you know that when they are going to do their set breaks, sell #332 to me, not PWCC or probstein, because they will get more from me directly.

The link works now. Revised it.

It is entertaining huh!

The worst pirates hitters of all time:

1B Tony Bartirome (1952) — 124 games, 386 plate appearances — .220 AVG/.273 OBP/.265 SLG (44 wRC+)

You have to be a special brand of awful to be a first baseman, no matter what era, and not hit a home run over the course of a season spanning 386 PA’s. The 1952 season was Bartirome’s only season in the Majors.

And yet, his card is worth $100's of dollars because it's a high number! Love it!

In regards to influencing the market / cornering the market:

One dealer believes such:

I simply asked gfg.com guy the following even though I have bought all of them from him, feeling him out for more:

Do you have any of these cards? They are pictured, but no where to click for them:

https://www.gfg.com/cardimg/119/27352.jpg

gfg@gfg.com
Sep 19

no, the guys nephew is trying to corner the market on them, he keeps buying them all up, I have none

Dave

The problem is they will die with their collections..so yeah 20-30 years from now you may see those set breaks.. but you may be the only 1 bidding so you can get them cheap by then....plus there are many raw out there that havent been graded...people can pay what they want but it still going to be a ways to go for the card to be rare on the market...plus really only the ex+or better is what the the registry collectors are looking for... however i will let them know...i sold most of 1952 set to several of the set collectors and thats how i know them..

man first Levi and now Ed Hazuka..but Ed sells at better rates..i actually about 10 or so 1952s from him in the past......

What a fascinating look into the mind of a baseball card hoarder this thread is. :)


A 19-year old 5'10" 155 lb. 1st Baseman, barely out of High School and only one year of C-Ball under his belt. The Pirates must have been in desperate need of a 1st baseman that year. :eek:

He never saw the majors again, but went on to have a pretty respectable minor league career, mostly at AAA.

He went on to be the Pirates trainer for many years. Back in the 70's, he signed my / his '52 and '53 Topps cards. I remember he took the '52 and was showing it to other Pirates sitting in the dug out. Maybe none believed him to be a former Pirate player? Nice man, very friendly.

To me, I get just as excited about a PSA 1 as a PSA 6.... if I see it available, I want it just as bad. I don't mind paying $200 for a 1, 2, 3, 4 etc. If it's raw and ungraded and looks bad, to me it's worth $150 at least regardless of condition. Of course I do recognize the extra rarity of a 7 and up, & paying handsomely for those.....but overall, I like #332 and try to win it just as aggressively no matter the condition or grade, & usually end up paying the same range for any 1-4 grade of it ($250 or less).

Out of the 346 PSA graded #332, I have about 50 of them now. So almost 20% is in my possession. I have 37 more to get graded to spike the PSA pop. Now owning 20% of the PSA population of #332 does seem to be influencing things lately. Of course, I have zero of the 4 PSA 9's and only 1 PSA 8, but it's an OC Qualifier. Hopefully I'll be able to get a few of the 32 PSA 8's by the end of the year (one is on Robert Edwards now, & one is on Heritage Auctions next month, thanks for the tips guys).

My dad used to have breakfast with him, and Stargell and Richie Zisk & Sanguillen at the pantry (http://www.tripadvisor.com/Restauran...alifornia.html) next to the Los Angeles Biltmore Hotel (where the Pirates would stay).... My Dad got a ball signed from Clemente 2 weeks before he died in the plane crash. My dad was 14 then.

My Dad says he changed his last name to make it easier for announcers to pronounce.... 3 syllables instead of 4.... "Bar - tah - rome .......instead of Bar - tah - ro - mo....

Seems simple to me, but no one ever pronounces our name right.

there are probably 750-1000 of those cards in the States when all said and done........did you win the card on REA?

an economic experiment?
 

This is a fascinating thread, and surely it is an economic experiment. The buyer "announces" that he will be buying X card at above-market prices. How will the market react? Will price move? How many cards exist (supply)? I think it would be fun to try this myself if I had already cornered the market and were really a seller (as some have hinted); rationally, one oughtn't buy the cheap talk and assume this is a best response to a previously assemble position. Beyond this, this experiment is generating a lot of information that was not previously available to all. What is the true supply of high numbers from 1952? I hope that we all continue to track this, preferably, in the post-war forum. It is a nice extension of the Curt Flood experiment, where the buyer was a real buyer but did not announce his intentions in advance.

My contribution to the experiment: A key supply indicator is the PSA pop reports. So, why not take the OP's 20-25% of the PSA supply, crack them, and resubmit. Then, you will have about 50% of the published supply. All buyers will then see high pop reports but zero/low supply on EBAY and elsewhere. This would look like an anomaly to market observers, and it might generate interest. Perhaps, more velocity in the #332 turnover/marketing out of collections.

YES

http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/...x?itemid=38312

Don't like how my auto bid kept getting bumped up after $900 in after hours bidding. I've never seen a PSA 8 go for more then $950 (on eBay last year with a buy it now). Other then that, it's done $400-$600 on other websites from my research....

But yes, I won it for $1,300.

Heritage has one next month. We will see what happens.

Interesting. Well, I could crack all PSA 1's - 4's & resubmit, but that is costly, & since I am in it as a collector & not to manipulate the market, there is no incentive unless I just like chaos & anarchy.

I won't risk cracking 5's & up & getting them a lesser grade.

I've asked a few #332 owners to sell me theirs (at double the market price) & they have refused because it was part of their set. So some just cannot be bought right now. Even the recent PSA 5 that had a $450 buy it now with best offer that went for $360, could not be re-bought for $500 when I asked the seller to tell the buyer to contact me if he wanted to make a nice quick profit. http://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Topps-3...-/111785024544 I won't pay $500 for a PSA 5, but the seller kept saying he passed my message on to the buyer at $400 so I just tried to smoke him out with a $500 offer, but still no response. $400 is the max I will pay for a PSA 5. I'm young - I can wait out some of these owners until they set break or fall on hard times.

I was going to wait until I had 100 ungraded #332's and then submit all for grading so I can get the $8 per card grading fee.

I will take a new group shot of all the #332's and update here once the PSA 8 from REA arrives.

I find it strange that I have never seen any of the 11 BGS graded #332's offered online anywhere:

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/...psow7ebf0y.jpg

There were 11 last week, now 12. Even the 2s, 4s, and 4.5 has never been seen. They aren't high grades so maybe not in sets? I still have zero BGS #332's.

right many of the set collectors aren't going to break up their sets.. you will need their kids to sell it after the death of the collector...most of the 52 collectors are over 50 years old....about the time when you see all the sets get broken up is when prices should fall...supply and demand..

the one on REA was pretty offcentered...the heritage one may go for more....I bought the #12 Basgil which I think is one of the rarest 1952s to get in a black back and paid less than 1300 funny

supply curve
 

The OP is getting some terrific market info, and I appreciate his willingness to share. We are seeing some more complex aspects of value rather than simply the price of the marginal trade. Consider that the OP has found that some owners are unwilling to accept even 1.5x or more...even when they just bought it. People certainly value their own cards, and all owners do not view those on the market as substitutes. The OP is going farther up the supply curve

Also, I always wondered how many cards on the beckett or psa pop guides were resubmitted, and so the numbers in the pop report are above the true number of graded cards. The OP is gaining some insight on the true population. Even for commons, I hypothesized that a good number of 5s and higher are resubmitted.

BTW: I am fascinated because I established a small position on a 1957 common several years ago. I noticed that the psa 5+ market price rose 10-20% on ebay, which I attributed to my position. The 1957 commons are far more in number, I bet, than 1952 highs, so I am not surprised that the OP's position is driving price up rapidly.

The PSA 8s don't get resubmitted often though for 1952s....so that POP is probably pretty accurate the prices will hold until he doesn't buy one from a person for an amount he stated....then all the prices will collapse....he did say he was young .things change really fast on card collecting ...people tend to 'refocus' their collection often...

How about an updated picture like the first one showing ALL your 332 cards?

I have never been aware of black back or any specific back. Does #332 have different color backs? All of mine are the same....

I have also never noticed centering....it isn't even 1% concern of mine. Now that you mention it, the REA centering is a bit off, but again, it doesn't matter to me what the centering shows. It is strange to me for a collector to be concerned where an imaginary border created by a ink line lands on a cards edge.

Publishing this thread has allowed me to obtain 2 PSA 6's this month from private messages on this forum. One of them originally said NO, not selling.

"I do have a Bartirome, PSA 6 centered, but I'm not looking to sell just at the moment. I'll definitely keep you in mind though if I do elect to do so in the near future. "

Then I said LOOK, PWCC is auctioning off a PSA 6 right now. When it ends with me as the winner, I will contact you again & offer you whatever PWCC final auction price went for + $50 extra. We all know PWCC commands a premium so +$50 was an even higher premium.

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/...psafan3rja.jpg

Then he said:

I can tell you really want that card, and hey, us collectors gotta help each other out. So I'll do that deal.

So I figured I had to broadcast what I am seeking to hunt some of these down.

I will round them up out of their safes & locations & take a picture of all of them as soon as the new PSA 8 arrives in a few weeks.

Just curious, how did you arrive at a population of 750-1000? I'm not doubting you, I was just wondering.

Wow, if Net54 is the haystack, I just found the needle.

well there are probably just as many raw bad condition cards then there are graded cards...there are around 375 graded cards that puts it at 750....people dont submit psa 1 common high numbers....plus there got to be some more beter conditon cards out there..its a guess..but there are a ton of raw cards out there..i got 2 or 3 good condition baritromes i bought raw that were psa 7-8s the last 2 years and im just a little guy i not scouring the US looking for cards.....

I am glad I amused you :)

helllloooooo! Sell them to me!!!! :)

And just to prevent any confusion, I meant ZERO disrespect in the comment. It's actually a refreshing and welcome thing to encounter a collector here who takes a fairly disinterested position on centering. (And no disrespect to the centering guys either--each to his own.)

I like the 1000+ range...............maybe 1250 or more.

349 graded by PSA
36 graded by SGC
12 graded by BGS
397 Total

In his picture he has 15 graded and 28 ungraded. So assume of the 397, there are some regrades on the high end. 10-15% maybe? that'd get you down to 350-360 or so. If the graded to ungraded number holds out at 2-1, you'd be easily at 1000+. I tend to think that theres a lot ungraded of this stuff out there. Especially Topps cards.

There are 1287 Graded PSA Mantles and 389 SGC graded, total 1676. So they're likely re-graded at a higher level than the norm for 1952T right? But then there's ungraded ones out there. Likely a LOT less than 2-1 on them and it's a DP card. So the 1000 number has to be pretty good if not low on the Bartirome. JMO................

I know this is the BST but this thread has a life of its own so if I may:

-I am not a 1952 Topps guy. I have a low number near-set in mid grade but have not bought a card in years. I have one (1) of each card that I have (and no Bartirome), so I don't really have a dog in this race.

-I find this kind of hoarding odd and more than a little annoying. Okay, I get the whole one for each of the kids, cousins, great-grand nephews, what have you. But unless the family in question looks like the one from the opening scene of Monty Python's Meaning of Life, I think they are covered and then some.

-so now we have an apparently well-heeled individual actively trying to corner the market on this card. To what end? Presuming he is a Bartirome relative does not obviate another profit-based motive. Again no crime in that, and maybe I am being cynical, but I wouldn't be surprised if a few years from now these reappeared in the market at inflated prices.

-I place this in the same category as Titus, 1964 Curt Flood, and other hoards known and unknown. Not my thing and an annoyance, I am sure, to set collectors everywhere.

-If I happen across a Bartirome at some store or show maybe I will buy it now. But I won't tell. Its my contrary nature.

Perhaps I'd feel differently if I were hoping to complete a 1952 or 1964 set, but I think it's awesome that there are guys who are hoping to buy everything out there. From my reads, neither our Bartirome collector nor the Flood collector are specifically trying to rig the market--both have sentimental reasons for their quixotic quests.

I love seeing collectors who are passionate about the players and the cards, particularly when so much of the "Hobby" is about money these days. True, it takes an awful lot of disposable cash to support this Bartiromania, but there is a love I see here that I just don't when I read all about PSA 8s that get mailed in over and over until they become 9s.

Fair point. But I do see a line between collecting and obsessing/hoarding. And, even taking the OP at face value, I'm not sure where this falls. I am not a flipper, investor or serial submitter and that part of this hobby/business holds no allure for me either.
And, why not the cheaper 1953 Bartirome instead/as well?

relax..the guy said he is young and just started....as we know things happen in a year or two.....all it takes is him not buying back a card at inflated prices and everything collapses....now if this goes on for 5 years or so...save this message and we can revisit..but cant really talk about cornering the market after a year etc...gonna need a LOT of set breaks to occur over time......life happens , things in peoples lives change..which impacts collecting...we shall see.... but fun to talk about now for sure..

I do find this interesting and wishing you luck. But why not pursue the 53's that can be had for a fraction of the 52's?

Because that's the set I'm working on!:D

Maybe it has to do with the place the 1952 Topps set has in collecting history, and it being Bartirome's rookie card. Although I think the 1953 set is the nicer looking of the two (one of the reasons I started building it in the first place), you can't go wrong either way. Full disclosure, I have his card from the 53 set signed and don't plan on selling.

Let me know if this potential future scenario would annoy you? Perhaps after I do not see a single Bartirome ever listed on eBay or auction houses across the net for an entire year straight, I will be content with my collection. Perhaps I will then set aside 20 of them for the descendants & the rest (100's at that point, I assume 10 years from now to not see one cross the net for a year), I will just flood eBay with all at once. You & others would then be able to buy them up for under $50 each maybe, since there will be hundreds of active auction style listings all going & ending at the same time. Wouldn't that be fun!

Until then, if you come across a #332, let my offer to pay double what you paid for it tempt you until you cave :)

I truly am not in #332 for the money. My $500/$1000 bills and gold/silver collections, YES.

Thanks Jason for your fond thoughts.

So the 32 PSA 8's on the pop report for the #332, would you say there are probably only 10 of them to obtain?

4 reasons why I pursue 1952 Bartirome much harder then the 1953 Bartirome
 

You guys asked why I am not buying the 1953 Bartirome.

Actually I have bought about 10 of them, usually PSA 6's. I imagine I will buy a few more PSA 5's and 6's here & there, a few times a year going forward.

But I am not equally obsessed about "hoarding" the 1953 Topps Bartirome UNLESS it is PSA 7's & up, as I am about the 1952 Topps Bartirome in ANY condition.

I did win this 1953 PSA 8 last week:

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/...psrn2vy7wq.jpg

& previously won a few PSA 8's on eBay in the $150 range.

I see a PSA 7 on eBay now from PWCC, so I will be bidding at the end.

I would love to find the 4 PSA 9's of the 1953 Bartirome.

I equally want to hoard the 2011 Topps Gold Canary Bartirome. 10 exist, and I have 1 of them.

I do not know why it does not interest me to go down the entire list of 1953 Bartirome listings & buy them all up. I did flirt with the idea of doing so a few times, but when I looked at the offerings, there were too many. Is discouraged the right word? There are a 100 listings right now, & I assume that a week after I clear the listings, another 100 would pop up. I assume there are 10,000's of them? So the fact that they are not rare, & we value & find "special" in what's rare is 1 factor why hoarding ALL 1953 Bartirome does not interest me. Also, I want a challenge & the challenge has to have me be able to at least see, if not reach the finish line. With the 1953 Bartirome, I perceive an endless supply & therefore the challenge seems impossible & pointless. Then there is the emergency doomsday factor, that if I did in fact need to liquidate (because as was mentioned, life happens, maybe a financial catastrophe happens or unemployment, or a combination of having to get a wedding ring, having children, & wife expenses happen - then I don't believe I could liquidate 1953 Topps Bartirome's except the PSA 7's and 8's. Gold, silver, $500/$1000 bills are easy to pawn/liquidate immediately. That goes for the 1952 Topps Bartirome too. Easy to liquidate for a fair share of my money back if it was an absolute necessity to do so. I don't want to pour thousands into 1953 Bartirome when I can never recover much of it back!

Finally, & most importantly, is the lack of story attached to the 1953 Topps set. The powerful story of the 1952 Topps set is what hooked me on collecting my family member's card! As a kid I would always see a single, ungraded, not even in a top loader, 1953 Topps Bartirome in my Dad's desk drawer. Never did I even know Tony had a 1952 Topps card. Never did my Dad even know! I played little league in the 1990's and idolized Griffey & mimicked his swing. My Dad was never a card collector, & was unaware of the 1952 Topps set. I was only aware of 1989 Upper Deck and the 1990 Topps No Name Frank Thomas & all cards after that.

So I saw that 1953 Topps Bartirome just sitting around in Dad's desk drawer for years & years, maybe even taking it to school in 3rd 4th 5th grade bragging how my family member was a pro baseball player!

We have always known the 1953 Topps Bartirome to be worth just a couple of dollars. We had searched it before on eBay, but never saw a 1952 Topps mixed into that search.

It wasn't until 2014 that I read the story of 1952 Topps HIGH NUMBERS. How it was a huge failure & they dumped cases upon cases into the ocean! Read about Alan Rosen & the 1952 Topps find in the guys attic. All the rich legendary stories about this card set! Found out Tony Bartirome was in this set! I knew this set to be the famous Mickey Mantle card set, & was blown away that #332 was none other then my family member! Tony a part of the same set as Mickey Mantle's famous card!!! I printed out the numerous stories about the infamous ocean dump & how the high numbers came to be so rare, & gave my Dad some reading material along with a PSA 2 #332 Bartirome. I told him, "Can you believe that Tony is a part of the most popular trading card set in history!?!?" & that it has this amazing story about dumping the last fourth of the cards in the set INTO THE OCEAN!?!?!? AND THAT TONY'S CARD HAPPENS TO BE IN THIS INFAMOUS FATED HIGH NUMBER GROUP!? LOOK AT THESE PRICES THAT TONY'S 1952 TOPPS GOES FOR!!!!!"

I showed him a printed out recent sales from eBay showing $100-$300 for Bartirome PSA 1's to 5's. He was so amused, & just shaking his head like WOW. We know Tony was not much of a ball player, but we are proud nevertheless that he made it & that he is part of this historic, most popular card set & legendary story about dumping high numbers into the ocean. He took that PSA 2 to his work where he proudly shows it off thanks to me.

I got a late start on collecting it, & have only been at it since fall of 2014, but I've made up for lost time well, nearing 100 #332's now. It sucks doing a google search for Bartirome #332 & seeing that these different auction houses sold #332 for much lower amounts then I am used to paying, but some of these sales I see go back to 2005. Wow, it would have been nice to have grabbed this PSA 8 for $682 or this PSA 8 in 2010 for $528. I would have bid $1,000+ on these!!! I even missed this PSA 6 just last year for $170, are you kidding me!?!? $170!?!?!? I would have bid $400!!!! (just months before I became aware of the existence of the card, but still didn't think to look anywhere, but eBay until this month!!!!). Even once I was buying them up on eBay this year, I was unaware that sellers would be willing to sell them off eBay, so I even missed this PSA 3 for $120!!!! I would have bid $300 for it!!! I see such higher prices on eBay, & so much more competition in the bidding, then these off ebay auction houses that are showing only 1 bid for some of these Bartirome's!!!!!! I don't know what would possess these websites to not sell what they get - on eBay! What's 6% ebay fees if you have an eBay store for $15 a month!? Well, now I know & last few weeks I have been signing up with every off ebay auction house there is. Disappointed only Heritage Auctions has an alert feature for BARTIROME search, & disappointed I just paid $1,500+ for my first true PSA 8 from REA (with buyer's premium added) when I see HA had the most recent PSA 8 sold for $597 just in 2013! I have been sending the owner offers through HA's offer tool, but the offers have gone unanswered. I did see a PSA 8 hit eBay very briefly last year when I just begun buying them, & did not yet comprehend that a PSA 8 is hard to find so when I saw the seller's $1,000 buy it now with offer option, I thought offering $700 was good enough, but someone offered $950 & the seller took it fast.

So can someone explain why even just in a 2 year period a PSA 8 would have stayed around $600 in 2005, 2010 & 2013 with these off eBay auction houses & then gone all the way up to $1,300 this month with my purchase?

Now you know the 4 reasons why I gravitate to the 1952 Topps Bartirome over the 1953 Topps Bartirome.

Thanks everyone for making this a great conversation.

I think I will post again with an updated picture of the collection. I will push hard to get 100 of them in the picture. A few $300 offers to buy a few PSA 4-5 ungraded condition #332's have presented itself, & waiting on REA's PSA 8 to arrive.

Neat story......I would argue that you cost yourself some on the REA PSA8 at $1500 as there may have been someone here reading this story that pushed it up. Who knows. Regardless, your quest continues. At 100, you probably have 5-10% of the known population if it's 1000-2000. You talk about liquidity and I'd argue that if you needed to liquidate the 1952's, it would be at a fraction of what you could liquidate the 1953's at in terms of a percentage. Of course, they just don't hold the interest for you. So how far into this are you? $50,000? That would buy a lot of much more liquid Gold or Silver Bullion or $500/$1000 bills in a much more liquid, much more widely-held market. Some people are silver stackers, you are a Bartirome stacker.............

This thread is surreal, but also fascinating. I feel bubbles in my head, like I've had too much champagne.

I'm curious as to why you want the 10 2011 Topps Lineage Gold Canary cards of his? Should you acquire all of them, how do you determine which family members get these?

Why if you're also hoarding the '53 cards do you only want PSA 7 +? That seems, to me anyway, to reinforce the notion that you are hoarding these cards for future profit. The '52 Topps cards are from the first full set Topps ever did, and are from the high series. They are innately valuable, condition not withstanding. But the '53s don't have the same demand. However, collectors pursing the 1953 Topps registry will want high grade examples of the card. Can you comment on that?

I took moderator privileges and moved this to the front page from the BST. It's an interesting discussion...

I"ve written, commented on kind of sort of similar circumstances:

Here are some other exampels

The man who chases 1964 Curt Flood cards

The man (and he has a cool blog and I've sent him cards and will do so again) who chases every Tim Wallach card ever produced (No he will not get them)

The story Roger Neufeldt told me about George Kernek who at point had more than 100 of his 1966 SP Hi # Rookie Card (and his only Topps card I believe(

Now this ---

WHen I was a dealer/collector in NJ in the 1980's -- ( bought a ton of Joe Cunningham carfds in case I ever wanted to open a store in my home town.

Love to hear mose stories such as this and would love to talk to the OP -- and Tony became the Pirates trainer for many years.

Rich

Who is this 1964 Curt Flood chasing guy...we talking Topps? Theres 5 or 6 of them on ebay right now and several on no reserve auction including a psa 8....

I assuming he no longer chasing them....the cycle repeats..

yeah I know that..but wondering if he is still active ..as there are many on ebay..psa 8s in the 260 range with make an offer as well....

The Tim Wallach site is really interesting and he is up over 15,000 cards already. I think he could continue collecting them all for years and not affect the market.

It also made me wonder how many Wallach cards Tim Carroll has cut up for his art. I'm sure 99% of people are all for thinning out the 1980-90's card population, while making art out of them, but the Wallach collector would likely shed a tear or two thinking about cut up cards

http://timwallach.blogspot.com/

As for the original poster, I know from personal experience that it's best not to talk about a player collection for a tough card, it only drives up the price. I think he would be better off just waiting them out instead of offering big money at this point. It's definitely costing him more than it should. If he's not in a rush, enjoy the hunt.

All he has to do is refuse to buy from someone that paid a premium for that card which would then cost that person money.....if someone pays 1500 for the next psa 8 and he turns them down..then that's easily a 600-900 loss...

As mentioned in the article, he is still chasing them....in my dealings with him, he has been a shrewd negotiator and cites both the "Flooded" market for this card (90+ ebay listings) and the fact that he is responsible for creating it. Within the past year I refused to accept his (low) offer price and subsequently sold to another buyer at a higher price. In other words, at this point he appears to be in the market for only the more reasonably priced copies of this card and is now a victim of his own creation. Copies of this card, that based on their condition (low to midgrade) used to sell for $20+ in past years, sit today as unsold BINs for half the price.


The collector chasing the 61 Topps 242 Hal Smith card is still very active in regards to collecting every reasonable priced copy of this card. I would not be surprised if he has more copies of this card than the Flood collector has of his card.


If I were a collector of just a single copy of a card, I would patiently wait and buy as the cards appear versus publicizing my quest thus driving the price up.

right a guy chasing a card without paying a premium is a non-issue to deal with.. that was my point...

I probably cut a few when I first started, but I have been placing the Wallachs aside for the Wallach guy for the last 4-5 years. I'm probably up to about 200-250 cards in the stack, and I'll send them out once feel like I have run across all I have. I like reading about off-beaten projects like this, regardless of how impossible they are.

I'm actually surprised there are not more collectors like the OP going after as many copies of a single card of a family member, etc. With so many players making the majors and only having 1-2 cards, I would think family hoarders would be more prevalent. I know there were a couple of guys in the early 2000's going after every 2002 Prince Fielder UD Prospect Premieres Autographs, and there was one collector trying to land every copy of a specific Mark Teixeira serial numbered rookie. I believe that guy had over 100 of the 750 copies printed, and that was over a decade ago. I wonder if he kept going, and if so...what % of the population does he now own?


Tim

Interesting thread, for sure.

Life would really get crazy if multiple collectors with deep pockets chose the same card! Maybe nephews of both HOFers go after the 1982 Fleer "Steve and Carlton, Carlton and Fisk" or John Hilton and Ron Cey both tried to gobble up their 1973 Topps issue.

TIm:

On Mark Teixeira: I believe there are 2 super collectors (one of which I know in the DFW area and I see him about 3-4 times a year) and their dedication is fascinating.

Way back in the day -- there was a collector who chased after a strang specific serial # for each card (and this wsa the days of 10K runs); today it would be far different

1933 Goudey Tommy Thevenow hoarder
 

I do not know if he is still active or not but there used to be a guy in Madison, Indiana who bought every 1933 Goudey card of Tommy Thevenow. Thevenow was a relative and the guy was, like some others who are hoarding cards, buying them to give to other relatives.

David

This has a somewhat familiar ring to it. Did you happen to know Bruce Dorskind?

Good luck with your quest, and Happy Collecting.

Best regards,

Eric

After a little investigating it seems our OP has registered on our forum with a bogus last name and is now suspended per the rules. If anyone is interested they might google a bit on Cole Bart.iromo .without the period.....Thanks to a member for the PM and helping to keep our community safe....Had this guy wanted to do the right things now he wouldn't have registered with a bogus last name.

or you can cut to the chase with this link to some of the older stuff, there is some newer stuff too.....and Jake, it is the person who started this thread..

http://articles.latimes.com/keyword/cole-bartiromo
...

man all this talk ...I wonder if he was truthful on other things

And here I was thinking I was being cynical about all of this.

and a whole blog....with newer stuff..

http://scammedfromcolebartiromo.blogspot.com/

right I kept posting things challenging him on things...didn't believe it.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/-279710--.html

Interesting history, but perhaps he has rehabilitated.

I looked at that and then looked at his registration which is false...AND maybe I could undestand that but what about the blog I posted a link to, that seems to be a lot of newer things? Now if all of this was over and all debts were paid then so be it. But I don't have time to spend the next 3 days reading about this person or chasing down real names.

+1 Leon, a waste of your time. Plus, unless we've re-defined pre-war as before Vietnam, he's in the wrong place... :D:D:D

It was an interesting thread and I try to help keep the place interesting.....but I didn't expect that turn of events.

He was better off buried on the BST. :eek:

I'm confused now. Was he ripping people off buying these cards or was all this card buying legit and he was banned only because of the name issue?