Which Would You Rather Have?
 

Which Would You Rather Have?

1986 Fleer Basketball Johnny Moore PSA 10
Winning Bid: $12,655.00
http://www.ebay.com/itm/400916654862
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/ODcyWDUxMA...VTjDb/$_57.JPG

- OR -

1916 Indianapolis Brewing Joe Jackson PSA 4
Winning Bid: $12,547.50
http://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball/19...a/7135-80968.s
http://dyn2.heritagestatic.com/lf?se...product.chain]

Feel free to answer and post your own "which would you rather have?"

I'd rather have the cash, but the choice is obvious of course jackson.

Another question might be: Which one is worth more outside the holder? :D

Shoeless Joe any day!

Jackson, no brainer!

That very type of comparison changed my entire collecting philosophy years ago, shortly after I began. It's a very powerful comparison.

Utterly ridiculous

Of course on a prewar board we'll all pick the Jackson (me too). I'm not saying were wrong, I just wonder what the opinion would be on a modern card board.

And also, what is the argument in favor of the Moore card. Is it just two guys who have to have the highest graded set driving the price up?

Yes on both accounts.

If I didn't collect pre-war and ONLY did the registry game I would probably take the Gem Mint card.

This is clearly an example of people buying the holder and not the card. I don't see how that is a "10."

Good point and even with a more modern comparison, I'd opt against the Moore card. For example, for the price of the Moore one could obtain all these legends below with change left over for a steak dinner ;) And if we want a basketball to basketball comparison, you could get mint examples of the Jordan AND Bird/Magic RCs with much left over.

http://www.collectorfocus.com/images...-mickey-mantle

http://www.collectorfocus.com/images...an-willie-mays

http://www.collectorfocus.com/images...pps-hank-aaron

http://www.collectorfocus.com/images...opps-pete-rose

http://www.collectorfocus.com/images...pps-nolan-ryan

Lol...why would anyone spend 12k on a johnny moore card????

This is one of my biggest pet peeves because I just don't get it. I cannot compute how someone would bid 12K for a card that is this ridiculously common, just because someone slaps a 10 on it. According to Ebay you can get PSA 8's all day long for $10

It just blows my mind. There is virtually NO difference in that card and all the 8's and 9's!

mind blown, what a waste of 12000 bucks. I hope 25 more get graded 10's

Lol..exactly what i was thinking...makes no sense at all. I dont even think hes a hall of famer. First time ive heard of him. Horrible purchase

++++1

Why did the Johnny Moore sell for so much? I see other examples online for much cheaper?

I don't even know who Johnny Moore is, and I follow NBA basketball. Why did somebody pay so much for it? I don't think he was a star.

While this is completely ridiculous, I doubt the person who paid that much for the Moore has to worry about buying "this or that". He probably can buy this, and that.

He's a U. of Texas ex.

Being a U. of Texas ex myself, I'd go for the ..... Jackson. Duh! :)

Maybe Johnny Moore bought the Johnny Moore card..lol

I love the underbidders in PWCC.




Bidder Information
Bidder: 0***n( 448Feedback score is 100 to 499)
Feedback: 100%Positive
Item description:
Item Title:
1986 Fleer Basketball Johnny Moore #76 PSA 10 GEM MINT (PWCC)
Bids on this item: 1

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 1264
Items bid on: 113
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 46% Help
Bid retractions: 3
Bid retractions (6 months): 7






Bidder Information
Bidder: r***o( 515Feedback score is 500 to 999)
Feedback: 100%Positive
Item description:
Item Title:
1986 Fleer Basketball Johnny Moore #76 PSA 10 GEM MINT (PWCC)
Bids on this item: 2

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 75
Items bid on: 50
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 49% Help
Bid retractions: 0
Bid retractions (6 months): 3

The Jackson of course. Without the holder the Moore is something you stick in your bike spokes.

As an aside, the centering of that 1986 Fleer common is not worthy of being graded a perfect 10 out of 10.

While BGS holdered cards do not sell for as much as PSA cards, their sub-grades make sense to me. Within their guidelines, this card would not have gotten a, "perfect" grade. It would merely be mint.

I could go on and on; however, would be belaboring the point.

Best regards,

Eric

The Jackson because it was $108 cheaper, and I love a good bargain.

Brian

If it's a PWCC auction there's a high probability the Moore didn't actually sell for that insane amount.

The Moore price seems high, even though it is a pretty rare card. But this article from several years ago says it actually may be the toughest high-grade card in that set.

http://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com...n-just-jordan/

PSA says there are 27 such cards and their SMR values it at $8,500.

I don't collect newer cards anymore, so if you gave me either card to keep in my collection where I couldn't sell it, I'd take a Jackson graded 1 over that card. But the Moore is pretty desired to basketball collectors.

Moore's story is a compelling one ( as is Jackson's )

http://articles.philly.com/1986-01-3...ular-headaches

Doesn't answer why 12K though... maybe a hardcore Spurs fan with deep pockets.

On topic, I take Joe Jax

Slightly off topic, this is my favorite recent underbider's history... And all the more reason why a last second snipe is still king. I bid at 1-2 sec left, got the item for about $150-$200 under my max, and this chump had no window to creep up the price at the end.




Bidder Information
Bidder: o***a( 3368)
Feedback: 100%Positive
Item description: 1953 Topps #220 Satchel Paige HOF Browns SGC AUTHENTIC Deceased 1982
Bids on this item: 14

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 4480
Items bid on: 1572
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 16%
Bid retractions: 134
Bid retractions (6 months): 457

Based on registry and nothing else IMO :confused:
I could think of numerous ways I would spend $12K before the name "Johnny Moore" would enter into my thoughts :D

:eek::eek::eek:

He must also dabble in ice cream collectibles.

Obviously an inside reference, link?

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?p=1355732
See post #52.

These are both modern cards. Specifically they are the same card in the same auction. Lots #2 and #3. Both graded gem mint. One a 10 by PSA and the other a 9.5 by BGS.

1993 SP Foil #279 Derek Jeter:

PSA 10 - Final prices include buyers premium.: $32,816

BGS 9.5 - Final prices include buyers premium.: $4,981

The registry made someone pay $28k more for the PSA label than the BGS label. If there can be this type of discrepency in the exact same card in the same grade in the same auction, then the above doesn't surprise me at all.

Much harder to get a PSA 10 than a BGS 9.5.
And that 9.5 is BS, it has "9" corners which in most people's book makes it a 9.

Cartophilia's version of Tulipmania--Cartomania? The guy who bought that PSA 10 no name obviously has more dollars than sense.

undervalued exhibits
 

Then there are the old pre-war major HOF'er exhibits. Super low pops, great players, great photos - imo the most underrated and underpriced cards in all the hobby. Never really have seen a good explanation why prices so low, er wait, ahh, yes, they are so rare that nobody collects full sets, so no Set Registry premium of a bjillion dollars. Nowadays its just wayyyy too much top dog registry driven. One of the few pitfalls of the new era and grading. And I have held PSA 10's, sent them back for refunds as they don't look "perfect" in my book. But hey, if PSA says its a 10, it must be true, right?

Psa 10
 

Does not mean perfect.

Say it aint so joe

Joe Jackson, although I would probably hold out for a Cracker Jack instead.

I will never understand the tremendous disparity in values among highly-graded cards. Differences are negligible, in my view, and, even worse, subjective and thus inconsistent.

I couldn't agree more. Several of my collecting friends and I have often thought a solid Ex-NrMt (nowadays make it centered too) card might be the best value around. Any more than that and it seems to be degrees of "pointiness" to the corners. I do, however, completely understand and empathize with a little bit of that "pointless" affliction. Collect what you enjoy!!!

It's also an example of some damn fool having more money than brains (a situation not necessarily abhorrent to me--I'd be willing to try it out, for a change)!

May your collecting be one of the greatest treasures of your life!

Larry

We all collect in different ways. And that is probably a good thing!!

I'm a Texas EX also. But this is a dumb question. Jackson ALL day long!!!

"Numerous?" Billions!!!

Best to all,

Larry

More Moore's I would rather have.
 

Who in the hell is Johnny Moore!?!? I'd rather have a t207 Earl Moore, i'd even take a mint Donnie Moore over this card.

Just further proof that TRIAPD.

According to the PSA population report, they've certified only 28 Johnny Moore cards as 10s. It is by far, the toughest card in the set to get in PSA 10. Only 23 cards in the set have been submitted in higher numbers than the Moore (there are 132 cards in the set). Only 15 other cards have 50 or fewer PSA 10s, with the fewest number of 10s for any of them being 41.

There are currently 9 complete PSA 10 sets on the PSA registry, with 3 (and possibly 4) other near-complete sets with all PSA 10s, including the Moore. That would leave no more than 15 or 16 Johnny Moore's for everyone else to fight over).

After saying all that though, I'd still rather have a Michael Jordan card from the set (there are 208 PSA 10s of it). Or, I could use the money to buy a 1951 Bowman Willie Mays, 1954 Bowman Ted Williams, T227 Ty Cobb, 1939 Playball Ted Williams, N172 Mike Kelly...............

Steve

I'd rather have the 1914 Boston Braves pennant that just sold for about the same price!

He is a guy with a card that will get some fortunate collector 1 point higher on a registry.

Or more depending how the card is weighted :)

I actually looked him up, not knowing anything about basketball and the Spurs retired his number, but I agree, doubt the collector was motivated by anything but the registry.

The real question is were these PWCC auctions and where they labeled as "Nice for the grade" ??? :D

+1

With that Moore card I would be concerned that there are probably thousands of ungraded cards lying around in various collections or unopened packs and boxes. How much is the value going to drop if another 10 cards get the PSA 10 grade? Or another 20?

A few months ago I saw an unopened 86 fleer case for sale on Ebay for $300k. Were someone to break and grade the entire case I'm sure they'd find at least a few Moore 10s.

Makes me wonder??? I might have a Moore laying around. Several yrs ago i bought 2 unopened packs. Of course i opened them. I stored them in a binder.
I posted several times before, thats when the USPS lost 2 (Worthy & a checklist) card i was sending to Beckett.
Make me wanna check now???

I would certainly take a look. You might have a 12k card in that binder.

lol.

Nope, not that 'lucky' guy, just had
#58 clark kellog
#63 lafayette lever
#59 albert king
#60 bernard king
#61 bill laimbeer
#127 randy wittman
#62 allen leavell
#128 al wood
#129 mike woodson
#130 orlando woolride
#4/11 sticker -alex english
and the metioned lost:
Worthy & checklist

Of course some of these could past for 10's and some the centering is off, but i just kept them in the binder, since i dont do basketball.
Same goes with the whole box of 81-82 i bought and sent in the Larry Birds and got back SGC 9 & 8.5's on those. Others are in binders as well.
I am not so much into sending them off to grade.

I hear of stories from almost every one I tell about my involvement in the card hobby and they always tell me about childhood collections. I always tell them that unopened stuff and pristine cards, from the 1970s and 1980s (which is a lot of what I and I presume others hear about) can be worth a lot of money.

The pop reports show the Moore is the toughest to get in psa 10 with 28 examples. But think of how many prewar cards are that much rarer than that. Plus if there are 28 psa 10 Moore cards already there have to be more laying around waiting to be graded.

Rare doesn't matter as much as demand does with respect to value....(I know, I know I always say that...)

Economically and mathematically, value is proportional to demand over supply, meaning that price is determined by the relationship of the one to the other.

Larry

Which Would You Rather Have?
 

Which Would You Rather Have?

1985 O-Pee-Chee Mario Lemieux PSA 10
Winning Bid: $10,988.00
http://www.ebay.com/itm/400936776275
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/ODcyWDUzMA...Ve0HP/$_57.JPG

- OR -

1909-11 American Caramel E90-1 Joe Jackson SGC 30
Winning Bid: $11,042.40
http://www.goodwinandco.com/1909_11_...-LOT30282.aspx
http://www.goodwinandco.com/ItemImag.../53-6a_lg.jpeg

I can at least understand the Lemieux, but doubt he'll have the lasting value of Jackson, who doesn't even have to be a HOF'er to be an icon (he is one of 8 or so players who created 200% or greater of the number of runs a league average player of the same era would create--a Bill James stat that I personally favor as the best yardstick of comparing players across eras. I've always considered the demand for ultra high grade cards as something almost artificial in character.The collectors of such cards deceive themselves into thinking what they have is rare and significant, and therefore actually represents value. From my perspective, while there is a vast difference in price between a gem mint "10" and a very nice "8," the substantive difference between the two is really quite small, although not completely insignificant. What the "10" collector is really paying for is the plastic slab and the paper grading slip inside. It's not too different from buying smoke and hype, instead of substance. And while I understand the demand created by the PSA registry, I have seen many, many of these high-grade set collections first assembled and then shortly thereafter broken up, which leads one to question the lasting significance of both the individual high-graded commons that comprise the set, and the set itself. I would therefore question whether there is lasting value in such condition rarities, where there is an ample supply of the same card in only slightly lower condition.

Just my thoughts,

Larry