What is a scrap? Please explain.
 

I hear a lot of talk about scraps especially in the last few days. But just what is a scrap?

Can someone explain to me what a scrap is? If you collect them, would love to see what they look like.

I don't have any but have learned enough about them that I think I can explain.

A scrap is a card where the printer made an error and the sheet hit the garbage/scrap pile before being factory cut. Scraps are hand cut, and therefore receive an Authentic grade when slabbed. They were cut out and taken home by the printers. They can have big, fat wavy borders (easier to spot as being scrap) or have borders that are too narrow, cut fairly straight, or no borders at all - these are tougher to spot.

Scraps usually have significant missing colors or significant overprints of one or more other printing layers on them. There are some, like the Lash's Bitters cards, that even have overprints from completely different print jobs on them.

There are a lot of T206 scraps shown in this thread:

http://www.cardtarget.com/cgi-bin/gm...submit=Display

I especially recommend post 7 which shows Leon's Mullaney scrap that was kindly broken down by Chris Browne in the image I have posted (Leon, I know you never get tired of seeing this card on the board so I thought I would post it for you!).

And a cool bit about the Lash's Bitters cards here:

http://www.peachridgeglass.com/2014/...eman-in-a-hat/

Things that do not count as scrap: factory cut cards that are missing a color pass or have a miscut front or back.

I am sure others will have more to add to this.

Bryan,

Thanks for the explanation. There's a lot of talk about T206 scraps but what about other sets? Are there other sets which scraps have been found which seem to bring interest to the collector?

Bryan....
 

Well put! I will elaborate more in a little while.....:)

Bryan explained well, and Johnny will explain more, but here are a few more examples:

This is a Brown/Yellow scrap. Only a few colors were printed before the card was thrown away.


Attachment 185514


This one was nearly finished, but is missing the dark blue ink for the background. Also apparently thrown in the trash.


Attachment 185512

This one is a "cylander transfer" which caused a back to print in reverse on the front.

Attachment 185513

And here is a finished card that was discarded without having anything printed on the back.

Attachment 185515


Attachment 185516

sean....
 

excellent!

keep 'em coming guys......proud here:)

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8414/...de6a96_b_d.jpg
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2884/...8ddb9a_b_d.jpg
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5544/...f087c9_b_d.jpg
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3675/...74b21a_b_d.jpg

Chis....
 

BEAUTIFUL CARDS:eek:


of course the big guns out with Leon's scrap multi strike and Sean's scrap Plank:eek:

Love those scraps Chris and Sean...

And yes there are scraps from most sets. These '52s and E100s (white) probably are, I would think....but none seem to be as valuable as T206 so far...

[QUOTE=Buythatcard;1398112]I hear a lot of talk about scraps especially in the last few days. But just what is a scrap?

Can someone explain to me what a scrap is? If you collect them, would love to see what they look like.[/QUOTE

Here are two more examples of SCRAPS, one a Vintage (1888) Baseball Die-Cut item, the other a modern (2013-14) Hockey insert set (it is also used to describe scrapbook pages.)

From what I have observed on this forum, scraps can refer to lower conditioned cards (also called 'beaters') , the previously mentioned print errors , the 1888 die-cut items or scrapbook pages.

Attachment 185521

Attachment 185522

i will be posting a few here and there
 

scraps are cards "created" by the printer accidentally.....most are one of a kinds.....even when similar......kind of like a snowflake:)

Thanks to all for showing their scraps.

I actually like them and I see why there is an attraction to collecting them.

Do you think the grading companies should include the word "Scrap" on their label?

Here's a few...BTW, I have the SL Hart Upside Down Back for sale on eBay now (plug).

mike.....
 

that hobby has sexy borders! the hart is as rare as brown om:eek: or rarer:eek:

this one's for you!

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibit...er%20freak.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibit...Johnson%20.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/exhibit...son%20back.jpg

Great looking scraps.... Here is another great looking T205 scrap... I don't think it gets much more scrappy than this one (shown many times but it's still a scrap.) The Crandall is shown for reference....

beauties guys....
 

one of my favorites....

ghost overprint
 

of jack white.....tim c figured this out!!....and thanks to one of my good friends for this card;)

this has
 

the rarer "brown" ghost overprint

another piece of the puzzle...
 

and Krause looks so "eerie" with black "piercing eyes.....almost "spooky":eek:

Nice one Johnny. I don't recall ever having seen that one. :eek:

these t216 blank backs could be scraps (far rt)?

sean....
 

Thanks my bro! one of my favorites......so "spooky":D

Pete....

Those Blank Backs are INSANE! love the fact that you have twins....very sexy borders also;)

thanks jonny...i like that I have the only 2 known!!!

Never realized there were so many cool scraps around. Thanks to all for posting these beauties.

As far as value, which scrap do you think brought the highest bidding price in any auction?

Pete....
 

they are beauties! extremely rare to boot:eek:

Johnny -

Where's the Bender? :)

Turner....
 

for you my man!

Every once in a while you find 2 scraps that fit together :)
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/g...eststrips2.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/g...9/IMG_1465.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/g...9/IMG_1466.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/g...9/IMG_1463.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/g...9/IMG_1464.jpg

Love the Joe Lake card with the ghost. Especially the ghost image of someone's hand taking the pic.

Howard....
 

thanks my friend....I I have had ridiculous offers on bender.....but I honestly love it so much....I can't sell it.....some scraps sell for 15 k + ......maybe more....but they are rare ones like bender or the proofs....

they are truly priceless some of them.....each one, altho similar some are, are all different...

leon's matty proof could go 100 k + easy imho....or his multi strike....

Jamie's scraps are ridiculous! Chris's are.....sean's plank is just insane:eek:


these are truly the most exciting rarities of the set!:eek:

that Krause is just creepy but so cool, you can't stop starring at it....

the printer back in the day was just saving cardboard and being "green" before being "green" was in.....they were saving cardboard to set up the presses....or mistakes they just tossed aside....

JUST INCREDIBLE SHIT!:eek:

I love my Alfred e twin krugers:D.....priceless to me;)

sorry about the crumby
 

scans:o

If you want an actual sale price, the White Plank sold for $92,000 in a 2013 Goodwin auction.

But much of the value of that card was the Plank, not the fact that it was scrap. If you go strictly by the value of the scrap, I think Leon's is the most valuable, though exactly what it's worth won't be known until he sells it.

I agree with Sean, the most value added simply from the scrap aspect of a card is Leon's Mullaney. Overall the most valuable scrap, all things considered, is probably the Wagner scrap (Wagner #19: http://t206resource.com/Wagner-Gallery.html).

Though not pre-war, kind of a mess, but still like this one...
 

...picked it up today...

1951 Bowman Overprint #165/156/228 Ted Williams, Del Rice, and Clete Boyer Rookie... plus one catcher, I can't place, yet...

http://s25.postimg.org/6r9j596m7/ss0212.jpg

Hey John, how have you been? I just picked up the book Crazy '08 because you recommended it.

If we expand this thread to include proofs, the most valuable of all is the Collins proof IMO.

Several months ago, I sold this card. Now that I see all these scraps, I wonder whether this was considered a scrap.

As well it was the much tougher Piedmont 150 (5 known, 4 are handcut). I am not sure any other scrap would go higher, unless you count the Wagner proof strip.

Here is an Obak:

Finally a definition
 

Scrap - something an ordinary printer, packager, housekeeper, dealer, smoker, recycler or collector would throw away, shred, burn or otherwise destroy.

Carry on. ;)

A more accurate definition, one would be hard pressed to find.:)

OK everybody.. on three.... let's have a group shred.....:D

Hey Sean!

I've been absent for a while (first out of the country for a month... then taking care of my 4-year old solo for a couple of months), but it's good to be back on the board!... BASEBALL SEASON!

Let me know what you think of the book! I got the rec from someone else here on the board (I forgot who) and passed it along. I'm reading Unforgettable Season... AGAIN! A million thanks!
Cheers!

Is this a scrap or is this just a misprint?

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...size/scott.jpg

I'd define scraps as cards that were never put in packs and must have come directly from the factory.

that looks like a wet sheet transfer when the sheets were stacked following printing...not a scrap.

+1 ... though Frank would probably throw it out as well. :D

another gem...
 

:)

I posted this a month or so ago in the "non-T206 scrap" thread, but as long as people are posting things:

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...50311_0001.jpg
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...50311_0002.jpg

these are all beauties!!
 

keep 'em coming! especially blank backs :)

Here's oneAttachment 185754

Attachment 185755

...so... question. (and apologies if this has been answered before)

Is there a general consensus about how this "scrap" survived?
Were they placed in packs? Saved by printers? or both?

I'm guessing both... but still wonder.

john....
 

that's a great question....

theoretically, no scraps ever made it to a factory pack( but maybe a fluke that a few got packed in a cig pack, but the probabilities are very slim):confused:

most, were taken home by the original printers, designers, or factory workers......some may have literally been picked out of the trash bins at the factory in manhattan....

these cards eventually made it into collections...

collectors had no idea what they were 100 years ago, and still don't today..

:)

they are like finding little gems in a mine.....

they are incredible and give little clues into how the set was produced...

even after over 100 years ago, new discovers occur and really are incredible..

Thanks so much for the response... I completely agree about amazing they are. They are quickly becoming my FAVORITE thing about card collecting. They're the "Land of Misfit Toys" of cards... and every one is unique.

I guess the reason I assumed that a lot got in the pack is because I've seen some of the shabby quality control in card manufactures today and figure they were probably similar. But your response seems more apt.

One final question: I see the words "Overprint" on listings that I just see as registration problems. Clearly the colors didn't line up... so is "Overprint" just a handy dandy term to stick all misprints under?

John....
 

I totally agree with you! I always used the same phrase of the "misfits"

when you hear "over print" , it means the image was actually transferred using a print process and "intentional".....as where a wet sheet transfer would be "unintentionally" transferred as the image....

simply put, overprint means "struck" or "printed":)

Hey Johnny, there is something else on that Chance besides the Cycle overprint. Any idea what it is? :confused:

Sean - that looks like one backward Cycle and one forward Cycle to me.

John - while the term overprint can certainly apply to a scrap, for T206 you see the word overprint in a lot of descriptions because for some of the backs they took a completed back from one factory and ran it through the press a second time to print over the original factory name with another. You might be focusing on the front of the card and seeing registration problems because those are really common with T206 but chances are the owner is referring to the back. I have attached photos (not my cards) of one successful overprint and two where the overprint itself was misregistered so that you see the old factory, the new factory, and the block intended to cover the old factory.

Sean
 

a cycle overprint on front forward and backwards.....id say the forward was a wst, but Chance has a piedmont back on that card!:eek:

they appear to be BOTH overprints.....plus Chance is a true no namer here.....i'll try to produce better pics:o

i'v been offered a ton for Chance, just can't part with it:o:)

A scrap from another set
 

Since someone asked for scrap from other sets, I posted my Obak, and wanted to post this, but didn't have the scan on my home computer. Here's an E98 (yes, the image is really Irv, not Cy). Anyone else got E98 scrap? To answer the question, I have no idea if scrap from other sets carry any premium, but I guarantee if there is it is no where near that of T206. The Obak cost less than most PSA 2 T212s, and the E98 was about the cost of any other Young in the same condition.

Attachment 185992


That's interesting. This Tinker overprint is also missing the name. Although a previous owner did write it on the bottom with a pencil. :rolleyes:

I wish I had a better scanner.

When I got those T209s I posted (on eBay around 10 or 15 years ago), they were presented as being badly damaged, and I got them for a correspondingly cheap price. But as several people said in the earlier thread where I posted them, at least the left one would probably fetch a good price today, because it's true scrap with an overprint on the back, apparently from the same sheet as several other T209s now owned by scrap collectors.

David....
 

post it!! Ed- great card......you have a great eye....;)

Sean....interesting..........your Tinker is insane and still makes me drool:D

Chris, as always you come through! do not take anymore time off!!

btw....
 

i'll try to get the back posted of Chance....amazingly it's a Piedy :eek:

the overprint almost gives Chance a "tattoed face" appearance , something tribal looking...

pretty wild....

Sean...we have true "no namers" here;)

mrvster -- I was talking about the T209-1s I posted on page 5 of this thread, and earlier in the "scraps from sets other than T206" thread from a month or so ago.

Eureka! That's exactly what I was talking about! I was wondering what that was... and was about to post some examples when I started looking at those red bars... and how out of place they look. So that's what they were talking about... Thanks so much!

This place rocks... you and mrvster and everyone else have been so helpful and informative! Cheers!

David.....
 

thanks! they are very cool....:)

john- really glad your starting to like these scraps...they are very :cool: and unique, almost like small "pieces of art" or "little gems" as I like to call them...thanks...I'm here to help, email me anytime!:)



BTW.....Jim Rivera tipped me off to this secret about the correlation of backs....overprints..and the sweet cap 350/460 fact #30 with no overprint scraps.....

most players aren't available in sc 350/460 f#30(but the super prints are available).......but can be found in a yellow brown printer scrap because they never received the overprint back and final factory stamp/overprint factory designation...

ok....sounds :confused::confused:a little confusing but let me explain.....

we hear a lot about YELLOW/ BROWN scraps.....there are 2 "different kinds" of yellow brown scraps.....

first, all yellow / brown scraps are basically missing all colors( except the brown and yellow ink pass) ......hence the term "yellow/ brown printer's scrap....(some have some red, like downey) , but most just have the yellow and brown ink passes.....these particular scraps are lumped into one category called "yellow/ brown print scrap......


but, there are 2 different classes of yellow brown print scrap.....

1)the sweet caporal yellow / brown factory #30 cards no overprint fact desig.

2) all other yellow/ brown backs including blank backs


I do not want to take away Chris B's thunder here, but I want to make some collectors aware of these type of scraps(one day I will write some articles, but I have been trying to keep on the low low in order to obtain these awesome examples before everyone jumps on the band wagon);)


I will explain more ....

maybe Chris B, or a few other advanced collectors will chime in here....

:)

example of a
 

non sweet cap fact #30 yellow brown printer's scrap

another non sc 460 f #30
 

not a -sc 350/460 f #30

btw these aren't my scraps...
 

those last (2)

the lumley back
 

btw...this is not mine either(I'm so jealous):D

lumley
 

is not a "yellow/ brown" but just had to post it! great card;)

here are some examples of the
 

"YELLOW BROWN SWEET CAPORAL 350/460 SUBJECTS FACTORY #30"

I own 6 of these type so far( matty, street, konetchy, Sweeney, snodgras, and Mcintyre) and another in transit....:)


5 of them ARE NOT AVAILABLE WITH THAT BACK!:eek: (except for Matty super print).....


meaning.....YOU CAN'T HAVE A FACTORY PRODUCTION CARD WITH THAT BACK!:eek:

Street, Konetchy, Snodgras, Sweeney, Mcintyre- THEY do NOT have A factory issued sc 460 F #30 back!!

so, if you want to do a complete back run of one of the 33 KNOWN EXAMPLES sc 460 fact #30 , you would have to obtain one of these


btw...THANKS CHRIS B FOR IMAGES:)

OK....
 

a better scan of one

a clearer back image of another....
 

sc 460 fact #30 scrap

ok....
 

try to find Sweeney, or street on the sc 350/460 fact #30...DOESN'T EXIST!:eek:
only way to get it is one of these particular scraps because it was never finished!

http://www.t206resource.com/Sweet%20...Checklist.html

but they are available
 

with the overprint and the 42 designation! (except for super prints):eek:

http://www.t206resource.com/Sweet%20...Checklist.html

to take it one step further.....
 

there are 33 examples of the sweet cap 350/460 fact #30 no overprint documented......there are either 1-4 known examples of each......

gives the total population of 70 something.....

Chris Browne will elaborate more....

he has prelim research trying to assemble a sheet or 2 out of the known examples...

this particular scrap may be the key to unlock the "sheet size" question:eek:

btw....34 estimated broadleaf 460's???:confused:

kinda makes you wonder:confused:;)

was the sheet comprised of 34???:confused:


Chris B....WHERE ARE YOU???

I have said to much....:o