A new low in net54 lowball offers
 

I thought this was funny enough to share:

So, last week I posted a bunch of t206 for sale. Among them were a SGC 30 Mordecai Brown for $125 and a SGC 35 George Brown for $32. I received a PM from a member. He had mixed the two up, and thought I was selling the Mordecai portrait for $32.

But, apparently $32 was not quite a good enough deal, so he offered me $30 for it :D

can always list on ebay starting at 99 cents..will sell for sure ...

Had the opposite happen to me over the weekend. I went to the White Plains show and thought I'd buy some boxes for fun. I asked the guy if I bought two could we work out a deal? He said, "maybe I could knock off $3."

I walked away of course. He would prefer to make nothing than be reasonable.

You should have accepted the offer if he also agreed to buy the George Brown for $5 off at $120 :D

That's great. I needed something to laugh at today.

Most of those wax guys won't knock off much of anything. That seems to be a cutthroat part of the hobby for sure. I've bought a box here and there at the National for opening fun and RARELY will they take of more than $1-$2 and you have to buy multiples to get that. Business is really really good or margins are really really slim. I know I wouldn't want to lug in so much wax to make just a couple bucks off the sale of a box. Whew.....that would not be fun.

The wax guys cut throat each other they dont have the room and many times sell close to cost or worse unless it is a hot product----I sell vintage and refuse many offers---I will be fair with prices and sell a refused card later or at another show.

I had a funnier offer last night on some cards. Tempted to post it.

I was going to buy 2 boxes of 2014 Bowman Chrome. They were listed as $65 a piece. Guy said he'd sell them to me for $127. I was ready to pay $115. He preferred to not make a sale. I spent my money elsewhere. Don't have anything against the guy but seemed dumb to me. The show was nearly over and no one else was buying his boxes.

I had a 1963 Topps Reprint signed by Pete Rose PSA/DNA 10. If the card were real, it would go for $600-800, I had a BIN/BO for $75 I think.

A guy offered $45, then quickly cancelled the offer with a message. "Sorry, I thought the card was real."

If I had seen a real Rose rookie signed and slabbed for $75, I wouldn't have wasted time with an offer. I would have bought that sucker in a heart beat! It was an honest mistake, but still made me laugh.

Do it.

Around 8 or so years ago when I first started looking at N172 OJs there was a card for sale on the B/S/T. Lower grade but nice eye appeal, common player, asking like $150. Not wanting to spend too much on my first OJ I offered $125. Seller replied something to the effect of "this is a joke right?"

Turned out the common player was HOFer Sam Thompson and I'd misread the asking price $1500 to be $150. Haha, I really felt like a moron!

You perceived it as if he preferred not to make a sell. Perhaps he had more money into the boxes than your offer amount and he didn't want to lose money?

Just because somebody doesn't want to sell at a certain price doesn't mean they don't want to make a sale. If I walk into the Toyota dealership and offer them $20K on the new Camry that they have marked at $29K, it's not fair for me to say, "They preferred to not make a sale" when they turn down my offer.

On a side note, D & A has the same boxes for $69.95, so his price seems to be in line with what other dealers are charging.

http://www.dacardworld.com/sports-ca...ball-hobby-box

ive gone over this a lot of times........this is a hobby/business.... a lot of the sellers don't really have the same money motivations then the real world....lots of seller and buyers who love sports are also into the 'sport' of getting that last dollar/saving that last dollar...and they keeping score of it... never seen more deals blown cause of personal issues 'bad first offer offended' etc...in any other business.....

I can offer 2000 for a used car 'worth 4000' and I don't think the used car dealer will say 'ill block you from ever trying to buy a car from me again' ..that just doesn't happen in the real world but it does with cards.....

Not quite an offer story, but I've experience the curiosity of buyers and collecting psychology. One of my favorites was years back I had a mint condition 1950 R423 13-card strip including the cards of Ruth, Gehrig and Ty Cobb-- tiny gumball machine cards with perorations. I put the strip on eBay twice with min bid of $100 with no takers, then a third time with a min bid of $75 with no bids. I finally relented, took apart the cards at the perforations and put them up as single card lots. The Ruth, Gehrig and Cobb singles sold for well over $100 each, and the rest of the singles totaled over $150.

I also once had a Cal Ripken rookie that got no bids, so I relisted the same day with lower minimum bid and it ended up selling a week later for more than the first minimum bid.

So eBay can be a psychology experiment.

Jeff, my offers were fair!!!! Sorry you're such a big shot that Arby's coupons don't do it for you. :)

right when bidders see someone already bidding it 'validates' the value for some reason.. BIN's some people never look at assuming its always way to high

I've had BINs listed with no takers and at auction on same it goes for more...also I said on another post..the last PWCC auction..many 1954 topps psa 8 cards went for higher in the auction then the same card with same eye appeal was for sale in a BIN.....would of been cheaper just to buy the BIN...

My point was that I was ready to hand him $115 but he balked over $12 and instead made $0. You don't have to defend him, I understand economics. All I was trying to say was it was weird to me that you'd prefer not to sell over $12.

I'm not defending him or talking down to you, but maybe the $12 was the difference between making a profit and taking a loss.

I'm sure he'd have no problem selling on the internet. Just like I'd have no trouble buying on the internet. But the point of a show is that you're there then and now with the money in your hand.

I had 3 rare M101-5 blank backs in poor sec 10s with damage. 2 of them were only known examples if I recall. I had all 3 listed on ebay for $8K BIN OBO. I had a guy hammer me because I wouldn't take $2500 for the three. After about 4 years I decided to send to REA with my victory back McGraw. The McGraw was also a new discovery only known. The victory I broke even on and the 3 blank backs went for $35K before juice. You never know.

Jason

eventually a line is drawn...heck auctions are won by a dollar....a dollar the difference of buying or walking away....... if a dollar didn't matter than there would be bidding forever with a dollar increase till infinity eventually a line is drawn

It is easy to refuse offers no matter if the buyer thinks he is making a good offer---I was at the White Plains show this past weekend---I had 2 52 Mantles--sold a sgc 35 and have a sgc 10 52 Mantle---$6700---a customer looked at it sat and we talked---He came back sunday and threw down a bank envelope with 5 K cash in it---I just looked at him and said, I paid more for it than your offer---that ended the cash offer---just because he had 5 cash doesnt mean he will get his deal-----my one buddy said, if you accepted all the offers you receive, you would make a bundle---(I also would most likely lose a few bucks)----just another story on low offers.

Huh? In what auctions are the bidding increments a dollar?

you get the picture...check out ebay......lets say item is for $500 or less on ebay.. ....ok will change analogy..every auction will go up to $500 as bidding increments are less than $12.00...the guy said 12.00 blew the deal.....so everyone will keep bidding up to $500 every time cause increments less than $12...understand the example now?

or perhaps every single ebay auction will get bid up to whatever amount that caused bidding increments to go be more than $1.00....so no item ever will say for less than $3.00 , since bidding increments under a dollar...and will keep getting bid up since a dollar is nothing......like I said eventually a line is drawn and a dollar is enough (or less) for someone to walk away

1) Most of eBay bidding is via snipe.
2) Auction House bidding increments are not constant.

Maybe he prefers to sell them for more to someone else. Wanting more than 10% discount on wax is lowballing unless it's overpriced. In this case you were expecting a deep discount on a hot product. It's no suprised he declined.

items are still won by less than $12.00 when its a less than $100 dollars) eventually a line is drawn


OK you win... ...the guy is saying a deal was blown over $12.00.... I guess a line is not drawn and bidding goes forever to where the increments go over $12.00 on every auction.... my bad

I wanted to spend more money with him to get something back. Let me feel like I got a deal and I'm going to look for you the next time I'm there. It all worked out and I see both sides. Just something I was bringing up because $3 took me by surprise.

I've personally never let 12 dollars keep me from taking a loss.:p

"Let me feel like I got a deal and I'm going to look for you the next time I'm there."

+1

I received the "full price" Mordecai today and it is a fantastic card.

Thank you

Another point of view is that you also balked over $12.

+1

Thanks again Mark! I'm glad you're happy with it.

Yeah, I don't think this example really fits the discussion. The seller offered you a 2% ($3 off his $130 price) discount, and you countered asking for a 11.5% discount ($15 off his $130 price).

Your weren't lowballing him, but you are asking for a pretty big discount. If his margin is something like 8%, he obviously can't accept your offer.

I often price things as low as I can in order to sell quickly. In those cases, I would turn down a request for a 11.5% discount and it wouldn't have anything to do with me "preferring not to make a sale".

dunno? 10% discount is pretty standard...what's another 1.5%?

I agree that an offer for 10% off is going to be accepted most of the time. But I can understand why some sellers with certain products might not be able to.

Maybe on single cards, but not on new wax. Often the profit margin is only around 10%. Factory cost on this item was 53.24. Dealers are now paying more than the 57.50 offered. So how is that a standard offer?

Exactly!

my mistake...I didn't realize we were talking about new wax here...oopsie!

Last year I put a 2014 Topps Miguel Cabrera autographed card serial #ed to 25 on Ebay. After looking at completed auctions, there had only been two sold on Ebay. The first sold for $165 and the other sold for $135. So I listed mine at $150 BIN/BO, a price that field goaled the two previously sold cards.

Within the first five hours of the auction I received 5 Best Offers, the highest of them was $75.

Auto-decline is a wonderful feature!

Amen brother!

By the way, in that post you misspelled Lajoie Polar Bear as "Killian Topps Buyback". I'll give you $25 for it!

(The Lajoie that is)

can easily be a thread of insanely high asking prices as well that sit for years.........since theres no real value in cardboard, yes I know people will pay for it..but I mean compared to 'gold' or something useful in life.....I really think any offer that's worth more than the paper a card is printed on really cant be insulting........its just baseball cards people...

It is not a question of the people being cheap.
Many people just have to "win" when they make a deal, that is part of their enjoyment of the hunt. If they cannot "win" a deal they will let the buyer/seller walk away.
Their ego needs to be boosted more then their bottom line.

agree. I made a post on this...the sports collector is by nature into the sport of collecting....about 'winning'....I have had dealers email me 7 months later on ebay to say they sold a card for 10 more dollars then I offered (was like 60 dollar card)....I never seen that in any regular business transaction

people like to keep score ...

So, baseball cards have no value because cardboard is not inherently "useful in life". And then you use gold as an example of something that is "useful in life". Amazing. Lol.

Hey dude low blow !

When I was in Turkey a friend of mine was negotiating to buy a ceramic plate with the maker and his wife. He dickered and dickered for literally 2 hours over $10. He eventually got it for his price...and I asked him..."WTF...you just wasted 2 hours haggling with a toothless potter over a measly $10"...and it's not like he couldn't afford to have paid double the price. He just wanted to "win!"

IT's true! I'd have paid the extra $10 and moved on!

I can't believe you guys are still responding to him.

Luke - you need to come down for some Raniers games.

so you are saying baseball cards are more valuable then gold for prior present and future history

in my humble opinion gold is a lot more useful then cardboard....also I think in the world gold may be more valuable then baseball cards...maybe Im wrong.....don't think you can conduct electricity with cardboard for example....gold used in computers and electronics as well....guess that's not useful in life... amazing lol..

When I was at the Sacramento show last Saturday a guy offered to sell me his entire table for $150.00 (it was 15 or so binders full of 80's/90's wax). I told him even if he GAVE me $150.00 I wouldn't take the cards. I can't believe the guy was trying to low-ball me like that...:)...

I don't take this approach, but my girlfriend certainly does. It makes for some very tense moments between us when I'm making a big purchase.

I had a response typed out, but I think I'm going to heed Scott's advice instead. :D

not sure what you would be responding too...guess going to say cards are more useful than gold in life? heck its just cards who cares...

It's not a matter of being useful. Why does useful even matter? I'm not sure why you brought 'useful' up?

I have both - gold (and silver) and cards. They serve two different purposes. The cards bring me pleasure. The PMs bring me be security.

For that matter, copper is more 'useful' than gold. Does it make it worth more?

I'm not real sure why I'm having this conversation. Something tells me I'm going to regret it.

T206 v Au
 

Shameless plug of long dead thread...


http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=184553

The point I was saying was that any offer for a card is probably worth more than the paper the card is printed on so I don't disparage card low ball offers....cause its just cardboard.....plus we are talking about everyday cards where a poster was talking about a lowball offer of around $30.00.....I not going to argue the merits of circumstances where cards can be worth more than gold..i just said on the whole..in the world..gold has more useful value than cards...I don't think a ty cobb is worth much in Malaysia in the jungle for example....gold seems to have shown more usefulness in life than baseball cards in terms of trade value and use value...

I think people have tried to conquer people over gold ..but I don't see 1000s of people getting killed over cards...... again, you can always give a circumstance for your side...like cards more meaningful for you etc....I just saying overall...I think we can all agree that gold is more valuable....and I don't think its shocking to say that gold has value in real life use as a poster seems to be shocked by that comment.

I think that every time I connect to the internet.

I like the blissful ignorance just after my coffee and prior to connecting…you know - that time when you are unaware of the millions of people online who need to be corrected.

I will be the voice of hippie reason:

You're comparing two things with no intrinsic value. Gold has no value. Value has been assigned to it. Just like all things. So saying something like gold at least has value whereas cardboard does not, is a draw. Neither have value in itself. We have placed value on it.

What you're really saying is that any offer should be appreciated. But it's not because cardboard is worth less than gold.

Ladies and gentleman, good night.

Disagree in part, that logic means nothing has 'value' I am going by 'usefulness' Gold is used to build things, parts in computers, conduct electricity...there zero usefulness to cards versus what you can find for free on the street..

AGree about the part saying any offer should be appreciated..

But if you're exchanging cash for cards, then aren't you really just trading paper for paper?

I'm so confused :D

I would argue that paper has much more value to man in his every day life than gold ever has but I don't want to get drawn into that argument.

AT one point there was a gold standard for cash... dollar bills were literally backed by gold...evidently there must of been some faith in gold.......never seen a baseball card standard where you can take your cards to fort knox for cards..but that would of been cool...

right easier to find trees/paper products on the street for free than gold..

12% discount to a prewar crowd where dealers jack up an e95 common 300% is not similar to the cutthroat world of modern wax boxes. you guys stick to something you at least can feign knowledge about (prewar cards).

Cardboard is worth MORE than gold, esp on a cold nite! I can load my woodstove w/ '88 Donruss & be nice & warm, while you (meaning ANYONE) sit there w/ your cold gold & freeze your -ss off!

I respectfully contend that "usefulness" has absolutely nothing to do with "value." To wit, consider the paradox of value (diamond-water paradox) posited by Adam Smith.

Much like diamonds - or gold, since that topic has entered the conversation - baseball cards are not even remotely as useful as water. However, again much like diamonds, a single baseball card can command a price that exceeds thousands of gallons of water.

Solely within the framework of the American economy, I believe that the concept of diminishing marginal utility can be applied to water...and, within the hobby, collectors tend to chase cardboard "gems" or "gold" with the same mindset that others may consider when purchasing jewelry.

So, at the end of the day, what does all this mean? In my opinion, it means that diamonds, gold, and cardboard have varying levels of "usefulness," which has zero correlation to their "value."

Best Regards,

Eric

I'm convinced Peter Chao has come back to Net 54 under a new name. There's no other explanation.

Hi Jeff,

I'm confused that your post directly followed mine. Not sure who this Peter fellow is, bit it's certainly not me.

(Smart @$$ humor specifically noted, for those among us whose sarcasm meter may be temporarily disabled :D)

Best regards,

Eric

Jake, did you move to Florida from the West Coast by any chance? :)

I think already touched on all those issues....can always talk about one exception..i was talking in general...plus this thread was about a 30 dollar offer on a card...not a t206 wagner.....usefulness does correlate to value on at least a basic level...I don't have use for a baseball card in most areas of the world

Currency has been in gold or gold backed for a reason...never seen currency with sports cards..... I think that would explain the better value in gold...but again I guess I wrong considering all the uses with baseball cards in the world sorry

You touched upon Adam Smith, macroeconomics, the diamond-water paradox, and diminishing marginal utility? Sorry, I missed that.

I won't go all Ben Bernanke on you on this topic. However, I will remind you that the world has been decoupled from the gold standard for well over 40 years.

And there's a reason for this.

I've been decoupled. If not done properly it can hurt.

time is the most valuable commodity. and knowing that, i wish i had my 8 minutes back that it took to read the last few pages of this thread. :)

When did this happen, did they send out an email or something? Are these still any good? :)

http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn...6a06e704ac.jpg

lol, John. Great image, by the way.

I think Richard M. Nixon is better suited to answer your question than I am. :D

Best regards,

Eric

Have you ever gotten one of those emails composed from a random sentence generator? This is one of those Net54 threads that has just about as much meaning - proof that the internet has negative worth at times.