Saco River T206s....
 

I have had many emails about these cards graded by SGC, and the fact they are over graded (for the most part), and alot of you already know that. I think this goes back to the dislike of PSA by a large portion of the members. Why is this? What is so special about SGC, and so negative pertaining PSA? Re-sale wise, it's not even close. A PSA 7 common is worth around $600, an SGC 84 is around $350. And then there's the Standard Biscuit situation.....Nobody seems to want to talk about that...Why is that?

So there is an almost 100% increase due to the flip?

Not just the flip Leon, but the quality of the card as well. I have many SGC 84's that would not cross to PSA 6.5's., maybe not even 6's.. You guys know what I'm talking about....This is simply not a PSA friendly board, is that fair to say?

How about showing some examples Kevin?

I'm not as high end of a collector as many on the board. I will buy either if it's a card I need but prefer psa graded for a few reasons.
1. If I upgrade a card I can resell for better money with psa
2. I prefer the 1-10 system

Other than that I've seen very inaccurate grades from both companies.

I thought we had a whole thread on the Standard Biscuits.

I don't send any cards to anyone anymore but when I did I sent to SGC bc I felt their overall knowledge about what they were looking at when it came to prewar was vastly superior and their holder looked better.

Come on Leon, are you kidding me? How long have you been collecting as well as me?

I agree with Kevin...PSA is great...I mean this looks graded accurately, right?

Nice deflection.

here we go, now here comes the ass kissers.....where have you guys been?? David James and Peter Ulman at the same exact time???? What are the odds??

Way back when I joined the old board I do remember filling out a questionnaire where I had to swear allegiance to SGC.

Such a revolutionary topic as this has never...ever been discussed...hopefully the 'experts" will chime in.

Ass kissers are usually preceded by pot stirrers.

I may be a pot stirrer...but I am definitely NOT an ass-kisser!

And to you I was not referring Pete. :)

This is another PSA gem...this could go on for eons!

Wonder what it would be worth vs. an SGC 50????

I love these little baseball card pissing matches so I'll fuel the fire. TPG grades as somehow adding value or validating the value of a card will eventually land where it belongs. None of them have measures in place to be a consistent way of determining a cards condition. It is one of the best examples of human error and worst examples of control I have ever seen. "Flipping" and an "84" vs a "6.5"......... Pretty funny stuff.

Edited to add that it's a shame this very cool discovery of cards that are extremely presentable is overshadowed by grading. Would have been great had they been sold just as they were found. I would have actually bid and they would have sold for their value, not the plastic slip.

so all this proves is that "collectors" who pay more money for a flip and a lesser card are what? STUPID?

On a somewhat serious note, Kevin...I don't dispute the fact that in a lot of cases PSA cards of similar grade sell for more than SGC...the registry was a smart marketing ploy for PSA...no doubt.

But...I do not agree with your claim that SGC grades more loosely than PSA...this is not true.

I tell you what Pete, you have a 51 bowman Mantle rookie in pristine condition, but you need to get the money out of it fairly quickly and profit the most possible, would you rather have it in an SGC 88 holder, or PSA 8 holder?

If I had a pristine mantle rookie...I couldn't give a rats ass who's $.50 plastic case houses it!

What about a GAI 8??

That's the coolest response I've read in awhile. Deserves a:

until you had to look at the price come hammer time...

Can I be the "dead horse beater"?

Buy zis card, not ze holdah!

:D

I don't worry about hammers with my collection, just when patching up the barn. I'm just a Jarhead Hillbilly and like the old sport and history of baseball and the cards are a nice way to tie them together. When it becomes stressful or a point of contention, I just laugh and back off of the hobby for awhile. TPG's are a pain in my ass as a collector and as a realist and simple objective thinker - I don't see any of them being worth a premium so I pass when it's applied. T206 are overly abundant and patience will pay off.

those comments confirm that you are a dumb ass, conrats....Might be a jug of moonshine waiting for you if you play your cards right...

Here we go...
 

Definitely a Friday night...

not so Adam, I'm done. To all a good night.....

threads like this confirm that, you, kevin...are a dumb ass. you are the one beating the same dead horse over and over and over again...and you are the PSA ass kisser...and the one who cares so much about this nonsense.

"Conrats" yourself. This "dumb ass" put himself through school thanks to the rewards granted for serving years as a forward operating Marine in Afghanistan. I'm confidently skilled enough to not represent your opinion of me after a light hearted comment. It's just baseball cards, no need to call names. You would not feel comfortable doing it to my face so don't do it here.

Seriously? I thought what he said was pretty cool and the way many of us feel about the hobby.

kevin only cares about $$$$$...he is not shy about this.

sorry for any bad feelings. what do you care about Pete? It's amazing how you and David chime in at the same time!

I care about my friends...and family. I care about fairness...and doing the right thing.

Pete- you know thats a bunch of bull****. I can go back to threads 3 and 4 years ago, you're now a saint? You never start any confrontations??

I'm not Pete, but can I answer? I care about my enjoyment of the hobby. I could care less about how much money that I make (or lose) when it's time to sell.

keep talking kevin...your stupidity continues to shine through!

I fueled the fire and wasn't clear that I was just busting balls. I know it's a sore topic so should have expected a personal backlash. There is honestly a jar of moonshine very nearby so I will take your advice.

Eric, you are a class act!

How about your stupidity? God only knows I would hate you working inside my mouth....

agreed...too classy in this case!

I would LOVE working in your mouth, Kevin...it'd be the marathon man all over again!

You mean the guy working on Dustin Hoffman that didn't even have a medical license?????

.
 

Is that Steve Martin?

little shop of horrors...another dental scene I'd like to reenact on you kevin!:D

I would hate to see this devolve into a moonshine bashing thread. I had some moonshine last fall for the first time and am looking forward to doing it again. Sorry for interrupting the show. Carry on.

OK, I get it. No need to be so subtle....

It is Steve from Little Shop of Horrors. Sorry for my delayed response. Me and my brother dad were busy working

I give up, I know when I'm whipped....

I agree with Kevin PSA grades smarter and tougher . Their cards routinely sell for more to set registry collectors and others. It is a safer and better investment to collect PSA. I bought 4 cards in the Saco River auction 2 out of the 4 did not cross evenly. An SGC 60 Gandil with the AB back was given a PSA 4 . Their S74 silk grading is all over the board and inconsistent. Factory folds get a 40's but horribly frayed silks get 5's. They routinely miss problems with Fatima T200's which never cross to PSA.

The fiasco with the forged Standard Biscuit cards is outrageous . They graded a large number of forged W575-1 strip cards that were crudely cut . The edges were jagged on two sides and the back crudely stamped and smudged. I bought one and it was obvious without a loop in person. Missing this forgery was ridiculous and is proof that the very basic fundamental task of authenticity was missed let alone grades of SGC 84's . I don't know if anyone stopped the Ruth card that was over 50,000.00 in Hunts auction. SGC is easier to deal with, less money and more card friendly but unfortunately they often misjudge altered cards and over grade

Let's not overlook the fact that PSA screwed up on their first ever graded card...the TRIMMED PSA "8" Honus Wagner.

Way to start your company off with a forgery bang.

You mean their company was built on a lie? :eek:

Hey Rick
You probably need your name out here to post that kind of opinion. Same with everyone in this thread. If you give an opinion you need your name in your post/sig line/thread, per forum rules.

As for mistakes. We/they all make them. It's how they are handled that set folks apart. Think about that for a while....

Just to stir a bit more - I prefer the look (and consistency) of SGC. Personal experience for me is that roughly 25% of PSA 7s will cross to an SGC 84 and have only had 1 ever cross from a 7 to an 86. On the plus side - well purchased PSAs are pretty easy to flip when they dont cross. I like moonshine.

my 2 cents
 

I have crossed over a couple cards from PSA to SGC and here are the results.

1933 Goudey PSA 1.5 (MK) to SGC 2

1980 Topps PSA 7 to SGC 8.5

And
1949 Bowman SGC 1 to PSA 1

In my opinion PSA grades cards tougher than SGC or BVG and that is why a SGC 7 is priced slightly higher than a PSA 6.

I think some of this is because the two main grading companies place more emphasis on different things. I think for prewar PSA is more forgiving of creases. I'd always thought that a visible crease would keep a card out of VG unless the rest of it was really great. But I see a lot of PSA cards that have a visible crease and are graded VG.

They also seem to be lenient on minor paper loss. SGC hits even really small bits of paper loss on the back more harshly.

Neither company is as consistent as I'd like to see especially on mid grade cards. Lately I've seen a lot of corners on SGC 50's that I think are just too worn for VG-EX. And I've gotten a couple grades from them that puzzle me but are in my favor. The few I thought were undergraded were explained pretty quickly when I asked in person, and they easily pointed out things I hadn't noticed. A Tiny crease one a 50 that looks much nicer, and an erasure of a very light pencil mark on a 40 that I've owned since probably 83 and figured for a 50. Knowing they spotted stuff I didn't even when I looked pretty closely before sending them in made me feel a bit more comfortable about the grades.

But such things are subjective, and the grading involves people, so it will be inconsistent. And that applies to ALL grading.

I chose SGC mostly because I wasn't keen on PSAs model of paying $100 up front for the privilege of spending even more with them. Sure you get free submissions, but when I wanted to send in a few cards to try it there just weren't enough to cover the 100 if I didn't want to do more than the first few. I've done more since, figuring that if the kids aren't into cards at all when I'm gone they'll have an easier time unloading the stuff. But many of my cards don't require grading. Mostly commons that would grade from A to about 2 - They're pretty much what they are and grading is currently pointless.

I may eventually do some more modern stuff through PSA, since the resale is a bit better with the registry stuff. Oddly, the modern cards I've sent to SGC really didn't do well. (The nicest 81 Donruss I've ever seen including ones straight from the packs when they were new and it only got an 8?!)

The other puzzle is that the stuff that slides by at VG for prewar wouldn't even get close if it was a postwar card.

Steve Birmingham

Absolutely agree.


Attachment 180228

PSA has a monetary reason for grading harder than the other companies. The set registry and the continued pursuit for the world's best set. The only thing that both companies should strive for is consistency in grading...not necessarily with each other, but today's PSA 4 should look like yesterday's PSA 4.

You hit it right on the head with PSA and the monetary aspect--also their registry--todays psa 4 looks like 5-10 years ago psa 6. Don

You snagged a lot of the Saco haul this last time. Good luck on the sales.

Amen on the crease aspect
 

Completely agree, e.g.

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x...s59444fd4.jpeg

There seems to be an uncomfortable anti-dentite undercurrent running through this thread. Remember when we first became aware of anti-dentite discrimination that exists in this country:

Kramer: You think that dentists are so different from me and you? They came to this country just like everybody else, in search of a dream.

Jerry: Kramer, he's just a dentist.

Kramer: Yeah, and you're an anti-dentite.

Jerry: I am not an anti-dentite!

Kramer: You're a rabid anti-dentite! Oh, it starts with a few jokes and some slurs. "Hey, denty!" Next thing you know you're saying they should have their own schools.

Jerry: They do have their own schools!

Yes I did 16 single cards included a few scarce versions and the 1912 World Series program along with the Ruth/Gehrig ball. There is a high end collector from North Carolina who flys up for the auction and he spends around 30K-35K per auction---he is working on the El Principe De Gales back set---Tough to beat him when he wants a card or 10 card sheet.--I am looking forward to the next auction.

Just my opinon on this:

Fact 1:

If you are really going to love your country, you are going to have to love moonshine.

Fact 2: PSA cards do sell higher than SGC. I know that from many years of collecting. My personal cards go to SGC and flips go to PSA.

I don't really know why, but the public perception seems to be that PSA is better... more accurate.

And perception, even if unfounded, is reality.