The Scoundrel HOF
 

It seems to be HOF thread season so let me so bold to add "The Scoundrel HOF".

To qualify a player, manager, coach, owner or umpire must be compared to other scoundrels of their era. Statistics are definitely a secondary consideration for the selection committee. I'm looking for corkers, spitters, bribers, corruption of all types and especially felons.

Please nominate no more than three selections in your post and if possible make it three from different eras. I will keep a tally (vote count) and after 426 posts, the top ten on the list will be inducted into "The Scoundrel HOF".

I will get the ball rolling by nominating

Hal Chase
Pete Rose
Barry Bonds

The nominations will be added and updated periodically below. Currently 4 nominations qualifies for the top ten. I am not going to check for cheating and if you listed more than three, they are all counted. And we are using Chicago voting rules, vote early and vote often.;) Totals below through Post #120:

1 Braun, Ryan 13
2 Bonds, Barry 11
3 Rose 8
4 Clemens 8
5 Rodriguez, Alex 8
6 Cobb 6
7 Urbina 5
8 McGwire 5
9 Selig 4
10 Bergen 4
11 Anson 4
12 Chase 3
13 Sosa 3
14 Hall, Mel 3
15 Landis 3
16 Gandil 3
17 Jackson, Joe 3
18 Miller, Marvin 3
19 Chapman 2
20 Boggs 2
21 Canseco 2
22 Marichal 2
23 Powell, Jake 2
24 DiMaggio, Joe 2
25 Devlin, Jim 2
26 McLain 2
27 Howe, Steve 2
28 Curtis 2
29 Cedeno 1
30 Cepeda 1
31 Risberg 1
32 Kingman 1
33 Dykstra 1
34 Belle 1
35 Gooden 1
36 Strawberry 1
37 Thomson, Hank 1
38 Cicotte 1
39 Williams, Lefty 1
40 Comiskey 1
41 Scott, Mike 1
42 Perry, Gaylord 1
43 Speaker 1
44 Hornsby 1
45 Bradley, Milton 1
46 Mays, Carl 1
47 Burns, Bill 1
48 Palmiero 1
49 Hall, George 1
50 Tebeau, Pat 1
51 Fehr 1
52 Ramirez 1
53 Justice 1
54 Piazza 1
55 Caminiti 1
56 Machado 1
57 Niekro, Joe 1
58 Robison bros 1
59 McGraw 1
60 Hoyt, Lamarr 1
61 Nettles 1
62 Pineda 1
63 Mantle 1
64 Mays, Willie 1
65 Bouchee 1
66 Neel 1
67 Dukes 1
68 Giles, Brian 1
69 Comiskey 1
70 Puckett 1

The Scoundrel HOF
 

Hi Frank,

Here are my 3 for the scoundrel HOF.

Ty Cobb
Joe Jackson
Roger Clemons

Patrick

Ty Cobb
Mel Hall
Ugeth Urbina

My three:


Pete Rose
Ugueth Urbina
Denny Mclain

So are they the best player that also happen to be scoundrels? Or is this the biggest scoundrel of their era?

If it is the biggest scoundrel without any care for on the field play than here are mine:

Marty Bergen

César Cedeño

Ugueth Urbina

Urtain
 

I think we may have a closer, in more ways than one.;):eek::D

Let us nor forget Orlando Cepeda and his suitcase of weed.:D

Charles Risberg
Barry Bonds
Ryan Braun

From what I have read, Dave Kingman and Joe DiMaggio are/were not nice guys.

edit: Lenny Dykstra

Hal Chase
Ben Chapman
Joey Belle

Some possible additions to your SHOF
 

If you take into consideration players that were talented enough to make the Hall of Fame but their inner demons got in the way I would nominate:

Dwight Gooden
Darryl Strawberry
Hank Thompson

Denny McLain has also been mentioned. What he did to the retirement fund at Peet Packing Company was pretty low.

3 Black Sox:

Chick Gandil
Eddie Cicotte
Lefty Williams

I watched Eight Men Out the Other Day :)

Charles Comiskey has to be a first ballot scoundrel. No way Cicotte should be nominated.

Cap Anson
Hal Chase
Kennesaw Mountain Landis

How about Mike Scott and his famous "cutter" from c1986?

Gaylord Perry. He cheated so much and just smiled about it that it became publicly acceptable.

Really? He didn't throw Series games for cash?

Not trying to be snarky, just curious of your reasoning.

Agree on Comisky. Should have probably had him after Gandil.

Ty Cobb
Marvin Miller
Alex Rodriguez

Instead of repeats, guys not listed yet

Speaker
Hornsby
All yet unlisted PED guys.

Let's list some more PED guys.

Definitely Ty Cobb #1, then #2 Pete Rose, and assuming we are talking about "potential" HOFers #3 Barry Bonds.

I'm still hesitant to splurge money on a T206 Cobb because the guy was just a horrible person. I understand he lived in a different era, but he was extremely racist...much respect to Boss Schmidt, a guy who would literally knock Cobb out when he would make racist remarks and harassments.

Hos
 

Canseco
Rose (taxes)
Milton Bradley ( not the game)

Honorable mentions

Ed Bouche
Tawny Kittaen ( for assault of Chuck Finley)

The Scoundrel HOF
 

I nominate Bud Selig, for keeping his eyes closed during the PED era. If he had demonstrated better leadership, much of our current HOF predicaments might have been avoided altogether. He did a real disservice to the game he was supposed to be protecting, in my opinion.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Trying for new names, but Anson HAS to be an inaugural member!

Cap Anson
Carl Mays
Wade Boggs

I am not at all trying to be snarky either, but how is it possible to watch Eight Men Out and not view Cicotte as at least somewhat of a victim? The guy had a contract for a 10 grand bonus if he won 30 games. Comiskey ordered him benched after 29 games which prevented him from collecting that bonus which was a HUGE amount of money probably more than his yearly salary. And everyone was so Shocked when it happened.

Throwing games for money was not uncommon in a time when players were enslaved by The Reserve Clause. I am shocked that it wasn't a more common occurrence.

I would like to see Joe Jackson, Buck Weaver, and Cicotte enshrined in Cooperstown.

Sleepy bill burns

Ben chapman

Steve Howe

list
 

Gandil for his "ringleader" role in the Black Sox debacle
Rose for the gambling
Selig because when there are too many players to name one specifically for PEDs, you have to look at the guy at the top

From the PED-o-files:

Bonds
ARod
Braun
Palmiero
Clemens

I respect McGwire because he didn't lie (until he got caught) about his PED use. Those other boneheads listed are just a bunch of talente schmucks, Bonds in more ways than just his PED use/denial. Sadly, Bonds would have been HOF material without the PEDs.

Amazingly, I had never heard the story of Marty Bergen before. What a psycho!

Hard to believe he only has one vote so far. Since we're only allowed to nominate three scoundrels, I will do the next best thing.

I second your nomination of Marty Bergen.

What he did makes PED use, throwing games, or betting on baseball seem relatively minor, by comparison.

Best regards,

Eric

I'll go back to the early days for some new names

Jim Devlin
George Hall
Pat Tebeau

ARod Bonds Boggs.

You make a valid point. It just seemed to me that Cicotte and Williams did most of the "heavy lifting", so to speak, when it came to throwing the games. You could leave out any of the other 6 guys and still lose 5 games. With those 2 playing their best, Chicago likely wins regardless.

I would also like to see Jackson in the Hof. Never really thought of Cicotte in that way, but I see where you're coming from.

Don't forget Donald Fehr who did everything he could to block testing and keep cheaters from being exposed.

He is still HOF material.

Throwing games for money was unfortunately all too common in this era. However, current scholarship reveals that the Cicotte 10K bonus story we've all heard isn't based in fact. There was no clause in Cicotte's pact rewarding him for 30 wins, and it seems that the player himself begged off duty to return home to rest his weary arm.

In fact, Cheapskate Comiskey doubled the pay of Cicotte and Lefty Williams for 1920.

I don't think McGwire or Sosa are hof material. Without their shameless steroid use, and in Mcgwire's case, offensively shameless, when he hugs proudly hugs Maris' sons moments after stealing their father's well-earned legacy by so obviously cheating to attain that record, McGwire and Sosa are nothing special. I even think McGwire had a season hitting below the Mendoza line. Yeah, the hall is full of guys like that... But what I really wonder is how we would view Bonds and Clemens had they not been, and presumably still are, incredible a**holes. Clemens had an ongoing relationship with a 10th grade girl when he was a married man of 30. She has since committed suicide. How do you sleep at night Roger? I'm sure he sleeps very well, which tells us all we need to know about Roger Clemens. And if 1/10 of what "Game of Shadows" is true about Bonds, then he has a personality disorder that borders on psychotic. Yet, if those two dudes had happened to be nicer, humbler, more likable, I wonder if things would be different for them going forward..??

Arod
Arod
Arod

Anson
Cobb
Canseco
Marty Bergen

Marty Bergen
Chad Curtis
Manny Ramirez

Bonds
Clemens
Sosa
McGwire

Miserable, cheatin' SOB's
Hate all 4 of them and all the other juiced up scum (Palmiero, Canseco, Caminiti etc)

Caminiti's dead, so you can probably lose your hate for him now.

Juan Marichal for the Johnny Roseboro incident.
Pete Rose for the Ray Fosse incident.
David Justice for the Halle Berry incident.

Bonds
Piazza
McGwire

Sosa
Clemens
Caminiti


OK, that s six. So I vote once for me and once for my son, who knows way too much about Steroid era ballplayers after playing the last 20 years in local weekend beer leagues with multiple pro ballplayers, including Canseco.

I don't really view Caminiti as a scoundrel. I just think his story is incredibly sad and a tragic and awful waste of a life.

Julio Machado
Ugueth Urbina
Mel Hall

Defending Cobb
 

I don't understand why Ty Cobb is on so many scoundrel lists. Yesterday in ESPN they also made a reference to Cobb being a dishonest player and frankly I need to stand up for good old Ty...

While he may have been gruff, mean, bigoted, rough and cruel as a man he never was a cheat!

It seems arbitrary to place him alongside the likes of Hal Chase or Barry Bonds both of whom actually cheated in different ways.

The Hall should be about baseball accomplishments, not being a nice guy. For that reason, Cobb was the first man inducted into the hall out voting, Ruth, Wagner, Johnson, Matthewson and the like.

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

It's not The Cheat HOF, it's The Scoundrel HOF :)

Good call on Hall and Machado! Can I change one of my three to Chad Curtis?

Scoundrel HOF Update - Day 1
 

56 scoundrels have been nominated so far. The list will be added and updated in the first post.

With great pleasure, I nominate Bud Selig.

Not to mention Cicotte had two shots at #30 and blew both.

I wonder how many of Cobb's nominations are based on the false stories made up by Al Stump?

LOL, I wonder how many really bad true stories Stump didn't tell.

Joe Niekro
Juan Marichal
Joe Jackson

Well I am glad I am not alone in believing slaughtering your 3 year old son, 6 year old daughter, and your spouse with an ax is a worse offense than using PEDs or being rude to fans.

I'm going to rebel here!!! Keeping it to three choices is arbitrary and constricting. Weren't the original HOF voters allowed 5 picks?? I'm adding two more:

Mel Hall -- I hope there's a special place in Hell for pedophiles
The Robison brothers -- syndicate baseball!!

Ken

I'll go with baseball-related scoundrels. My nominations are based on my extreme dislike for liars - these four epitomize lying and betrayal of their fans, and will always head up my own personal 'scoundrel' hall of fame, regardless of the results of Frank's poll (which is very interesting).

I had to choose four, as they are almost tied (in my mind, at least). There are others whose PED use was certainly as bad, but these were the poster boys in terms of their brazen public denial. Braun is #1 because he sacrificed a man who was simply doing his job. McGwire's pansy-like behavior in court deserves special mention - apparently when the steroids wore off, his balls shrunk. Rodriguez was/is just plain stupid - to me, easily the dumbest of the entire bunch. Barry Bonds doesn't make my list, because he at least spared us the constant stupid public denials. We knew he was lying, he knew we knew. The others tried much harder to fool us.

1. Braun
2. Rodriguez
3. McGwire
4. Clemens

cant believe I forgot him! great call there!

a quick rant I had on him a while back if anyone cares about him - http://metsmerizedonline.com/2014/01...ud-selig.html/

Bonds
Rose
Landis


great thread

The instance is, of course, worse than anything else listed here. But to me, the situation is far more sad and tragic than it is scandalous. The guy was very clearly not in his right mind and very far from it. We don't treat mental illness well today. I can only imagine how poorly it was handled then. I do fault the guy for not taking his meds (that's his responsibility) but somebody should have stepped in and institutionalized this guy way before anything like this happened. Its a failure on so many fronts.

It is a common misconception that mentally ill people realize they are mentally ill and are making a sane decision not to take their meds.

I am very puzzled by a nomination of Marvin Miller, unless one is a fan of labour laws in 19th century England. Even so, a scoundrel?

Bonds
Rodriguez
Selig

Jake Powell, a real dirt bag.

Much more deserving, IMHO, than Ben Chapman, who was a product of his upbringing (not much of an excuse) but matured and became a much better human being as he got older. From what I've read, Powell was a SOB till the end.

Anson
Cobb
Landis

Marvin
 

My only complaint against Mr Miller was his apparent negative impact on the Topps 1968 set and the 1969 set, at least the first four series :)

What meds were available in the 1890s?

Im no expert, to say the least, but bromides were what was prescribed for Bergen if we are to believe Wikipedia.

I'll admit my ignorance and/or my sarcasm meter is broken, but waht did he do to the 1968 & 69 Topps sets?

Ah the good old days. I bet Burkett wrote a lot of those prescriptions in the day.

Peter, take your bromides and keep the doctor-patient relationship confidential.;)

I'm not surprised at how many picked Cobb, although I don't think he was nearly as bad as most believe. But why hasn't anyone named a player/manager that actually PRIDED himself on being an SOB??

I present to you: John J. Mugsy McGraw!

The malpractice suit will be very public. I expected better from a doctor with 100 years of experience.

101 years and I have an experienced attorney.;)

Frank honed his collecting skills early in his medical career.

http://www.spidermex.com/html/html16..._t17-e02_a.jpg

Lamarr Hoyt
Graig Nettles
Michael Pineda

Steve

Fair enough, Frank. I was born and raised in Philadelphia, where half the graveyards cast their vote for Mayor every four years. :eek:

Jim Devlin
Chick Gandil
Barry Bonds

Rose
Clemens
J.Jackson

Mickey Mantle
Willie Mays
Joe DiMaggio

Scott,

Are you stirring the pot with this post or do you think those three were truly scoundrels?