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Poll: Is this T206 Elberfeld Washington Real or Fake?
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looks fake
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Poll: Is this T206 Elberfeld Washington Real or Fake?
Definately a beater, but front font and back look real to me. Curious what others think...
Pete, could you specify what you see as fake? -David Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk |
Looks real to me :confused:
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i don't like the color/toning on the front...or the type...but I have been wrong before.
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has that washed out look of fakes to me but maybe it's just the scan.
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fake
fake beater :)
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I vote fake
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I know knothing about t206's but that coloring looks a bit fishy to me. If i had to guess id say fake.
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Thanks Pete, and others for clarifying your reasons for your concerns! Very helpful...
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk |
How come only the more "premium" cards are the ones that are always so beat up you can't tell if they are real or reprints. My feeling is if its a beat up premium card then its a fake.
Personally I'd say its fake, there isn't enough delineation between the red background and the cream color of his uniform, it just looks very strange to me. Why do people go to such a great extent to attempt to make a card look as if it is not a reprint. On the off chance it is real what could it be worth even though it is an Elberfeld, Washington. In that condition I wouldn't pay much for it at all, below $10. |
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I agree it does look off color/tone but I think it's do to the rough condition
and bad staining. It has the same stray print mark as this authentic Elberfeld Washington so based on that I think it's real. |
Not really sure
I really can't say for sure but the three things that caused my fake vote:
- Eyes do not look quite right - Staining on the front is consistent but on the back the top is consistently stained and the bottom is relatively stain free - The tape holding them together looks very modern and out of place especially by the word series, not sure someone now would try to tape it together- seen plenty of old tape yellowing and such on the poorer condition t206 cards I buy...this instead looks like what I used last week for Christmas gifts. |
The toning is weird, but other than that the card looks legit. I vote real...
Edited to add: What's really odd is if it were fake, why would they obliterate the card? Why not just do the weird toning and make sure it looks a century old? I don't know how much the OP paid for it, but it probably wasn't much. Just doesn't add up to me |
Poll: Is this T206 Elberfeld Washington Real or Fake?
well that was also my thinking. It would be strange for a card in that condition to have exceptional coloring! I would happily pay the $5!
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk |
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That tape does look out of place. |
washington elberfeld
it's real.
but barely alive. best, barry |
It looks real to me.
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Rarely, if ever, does a t206 stump me as to whether it's authentic or not. BUT, this took me a couple minutes to figure out. I'm not sure it's the best scan, but it's definitely...............authentic.
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Pete....
hope I didn't offend you in the pick up thread.:o:D....if I had this in hand I could tell in a second.....unfortunately from the front scan, looks fake....I'm going to have to stand on my original opinion....
fake:o peace johnny |
The poll isn't about the tape; no doubt the tape is recent. The dealer I bought the card from taped it. I asked him if it was originally in two pieces and he said he didn't know, but said he put the tape on cards to "keep them close". I have a question in to Bob Luce at SGC if they would put it in an authentic holder. (If it is indeed real, it might be rejected due to having been repaired).
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I don't love the borders. Looks like the off white borders on some of the older reprints.
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pete.....
take the tape off:)
but your going to waste money or postage trying to grade this....:o |
You are going to pay more in grading costs and postage than the card is worth don't you think.
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As Pat said, it's legit.
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interesting...some on here whose opinions I most certainly respect are convinced its real...yet the majority seem to think its fake.
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It looks real to me....
And at $5 it's a steal. I bet it's worth 10x that amount...... Haters keep hating, that bad boy is real and a steal. |
It looks real to me, but now I'm questioning myself because so many people are saying it's no good.
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The red ink bleeding over on the left front border and the correct dark brown coloring on the name mixed with a correct looking back with a factory number have me convinced its legit. As many have said, high end cards in beater condition are always suspect, but of all the fake high end beaters I've seen (stained, bent, partial rips, etc).....I've never seen one ripped in half. A quick look under magnification should clear up any concerns. |
Sorry, my opinion, not real.(I am not 100% on it though) Check the centering. At first sight I didn't think it looked good, then did.....but then again, centering is just too good, imo
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Not real in any way!
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I hate to say this...
after reading pat and chris post, I took another looksy........when I first looked at the card, the back looked good, but front color, lettering, border, centering, paper, corner all looked NO BUENO......
from the scans.....the back looks 100% legit..... the front looks 100% not...... the coloring on the front is all wrong......it doesn't appear to be from the staining either.... this is not in my opinion a "huge " card, but significant enough to bring a few hundred......in lesser cond even...... I kinda like beaters....I have become accustomed to them since I collect scrap...and a lot of them are beaters....anyway.... does anyone think maybe rebacked?????????:confused: I know you ask, why go through all the trouble.....then It winds up in a heap pile of similar....doesn't add up.....I know, I hate to say, in hand I could 100 differentiate what this card is.... I own a printer's scrap, that I paid very good moola for that is rebacked... collectors did strange things.....maybe a late 80's reprint front glued to apiedy back???? just wish I had it in hand, :mad::D THIS IS BOTHERING ME! I still stick to my original opinion.....FAKE FAKE FAKE:) |
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A profusion of pictures under intense light
<a href="http://s8.photobucket.com/user/zouraspm/media/fenway/IMG_0542_zps1724462c.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/zouraspm/fenway/IMG_0542_zps1724462c.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_0542_zps1724462c.jpg"/></a><br><a href="http://s8.photobucket.com/user/zouraspm/media/fenway/IMG_0543_zpsf02380cc.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/zouraspm/fenway/IMG_0543_zpsf02380cc.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_0543_zpsf02380cc.jpg"/></a><br><a href="http://s8.photobucket.com/user/zouraspm/media/fenway/IMG_0544_zps8f576873.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/zouraspm/fenway/IMG_0544_zps8f576873.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_0544_zps8f576873.jpg"/></a><br><a href="http://s8.photobucket.com/user/zouraspm/media/fenway/IMG_0545_zps2956133b.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/zouraspm/fenway/IMG_0545_zps2956133b.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_0545_zps2956133b.jpg"/></a><br><a href="http://s8.photobucket.com/user/zouraspm/media/fenway/IMG_0546_zps973530bd.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/zouraspm/fenway/IMG_0546_zps973530bd.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_0546_zps973530bd.jpg"/></a><br><a href="http://s8.photobucket.com/user/zouraspm/media/fenway/IMG_0547_zps4e12ffe9.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/zouraspm/fenway/IMG_0547_zps4e12ffe9.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_0547_zps4e12ffe9.jpg"/></a><br><a href="http://s8.photobucket.com/user/zouraspm/media/fenway/IMG_0548_zpsea39aa0d.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/zouraspm/fenway/IMG_0548_zpsea39aa0d.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_0548_zpsea39aa0d.jpg"/></a><br><a href="http://s8.photobucket.com/user/zouraspm/media/fenway/IMG_0549_zpsb4a084bb.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/zouraspm/fenway/IMG_0549_zpsb4a084bb.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_0549_zpsb4a084bb.jpg"/></a><br><a href="http://s8.photobucket.com/user/zouraspm/media/fenway/IMG_0550_zps6cf18a54.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/zouraspm/fenway/IMG_0550_zps6cf18a54.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_0550_zps6cf18a54.jpg"/></a><br><a href="http://s8.photobucket.com/user/zouraspm/media/fenway/IMG_0551_zps7ed391cf.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/zouraspm/fenway/IMG_0551_zps7ed391cf.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_0551_zps7ed391cf.jpg"/></a><br><a href="http://s8.photobucket.com/user/zouraspm/media/fenway/IMG_0552_zps0415293a.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/zouraspm/fenway/IMG_0552_zps0415293a.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_0552_zps0415293a.jpg"/></a><br><a href="http://s8.photobucket.com/user/zouraspm/media/fenway/IMG_0553_zpsf40284e8.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/zouraspm/fenway/IMG_0553_zpsf40284e8.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_0553_zpsf40284e8.jpg"/></a><br><a href="http://s8.photobucket.com/user/zouraspm/media/fenway/IMG_0554_zps51632141.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/zouraspm/fenway/IMG_0554_zps51632141.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_0554_zps51632141.jpg"/></a><br><a href="http://s8.photobucket.com/user/zouraspm/media/fenway/IMG_0554_zps51632141.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/zouraspm/fenway/IMG_0554_zps51632141.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_0554_zps51632141.jpg"/></a><br><a href="http://s8.photobucket.com/user/zouraspm/media/fenway/IMG_0556_zps2cbc8ab4.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/zouraspm/fenway/IMG_0556_zps2cbc8ab4.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_0556_zps2cbc8ab4.jpg"/></a><br><a href="http://s8.photobucket.com/user/zouraspm/media/fenway/IMG_0557_zps085fa2fd.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/zouraspm/fenway/IMG_0557_zps085fa2fd.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_0557_zps085fa2fd.jpg"/></a><br>
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Can you do the same shots with a real T206 beside it.
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<a href="http://s8.photobucket.com/user/zouraspm/media/fenway/IMG_0561_zpsd0f00a3d.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/zouraspm/fenway/IMG_0561_zpsd0f00a3d.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_0561_zpsd0f00a3d.jpg"/></a><br><a href="http://s8.photobucket.com/user/zouraspm/media/fenway/IMG_0562_zps20055216.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/zouraspm/fenway/IMG_0562_zps20055216.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_0562_zps20055216.jpg"/></a><br><a href="http://s8.photobucket.com/user/zouraspm/media/fenway/IMG_0563_zps7c23fe3a.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/zouraspm/fenway/IMG_0563_zps7c23fe3a.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_0563_zps7c23fe3a.jpg"/></a><br><a href="http://s8.photobucket.com/user/zouraspm/media/fenway/IMG_0564_zpsd3d88e3a.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/zouraspm/fenway/IMG_0564_zpsd3d88e3a.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_0564_zpsd3d88e3a.jpg"/></a><br><a href="http://s8.photobucket.com/user/zouraspm/media/fenway/IMG_0565_zps4461c6ba.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/zouraspm/fenway/IMG_0565_zps4461c6ba.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_0565_zps4461c6ba.jpg"/></a><br><a href="http://s8.photobucket.com/user/zouraspm/media/fenway/IMG_0566_zps77223b3c.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/zouraspm/fenway/IMG_0566_zps77223b3c.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_0566_zps77223b3c.jpg"/></a><br><a href="http://s8.photobucket.com/user/zouraspm/media/fenway/IMG_0567_zps437ed0f6.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/zouraspm/fenway/IMG_0567_zps437ed0f6.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_0567_zps437ed0f6.jpg"/></a>
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Can you scan front and back at hi-resolution? Say 1200 or even 2400 DPI.
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I love how 15 folks took the time to vote "I Don't Care":D:eek:
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The print in the eyes tells me its probably fake
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Not hi-res scan
hi-res takes too long<br><a href="http://s8.photobucket.com/user/zouraspm/media/zouraspm026/scan0147_zps3d06ae4a.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/zouraspm/zouraspm026/scan0147_zps3d06ae4a.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo scan0147_zps3d06ae4a.jpg"/></a><br><a href="http://s8.photobucket.com/user/zouraspm/media/zouraspm025/scan0148_zps15ff5d2a.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/zouraspm/zouraspm025/scan0148_zps15ff5d2a.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo scan0148_zps15ff5d2a.jpg"/></a>
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Pete, I truly hope your card is real, and I look forward to seeing you at our forthcoming DC area Net54 get-together. Val |
after seeing high res...i stand by my initial opiniion that it is indeed FAKE!
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scans
Would you mind taking a couple of photos while standing on your head and gargling peanut butter? That would help a lot!
Thank you, Rick |
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It looks like someone spread shellac on the front.
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Another tell for me is the size of the A in Washington. It is smaller on the ones in the holders, or so it seems. Edited to add, maybe it's the font on all of the letters which look fake? Too "blocky" or something... :)
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Pool
I say we pool some money and send it off to GAI to get graded......oh wait.
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guys! that L is F'ed up!
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<a href="http://s8.photobucket.com/user/zouraspm/media/fenway/name_zps75c2d16f.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/zouraspm/fenway/name_zps75c2d16f.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo name_zps75c2d16f.jpg"/></a><br><a href="http://s8.photobucket.com/user/zouraspm/media/zouraspm027/name2_zpsd7392210.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/zouraspm/zouraspm027/name2_zpsd7392210.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo name2_zpsd7392210.jpg"/></a>
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For me its Allbout da Papar... Da Papar Isn't even close!
The ShalackiN iT Took covers SoMe oF da Facts... oR iN ThiS Case, Da Re~PriNT Papar! Totally Fake!!! |
dunno! i find in a lot of fakes the type is not right. remember te graded probstein magie? those L's look like the horizontal portion are down sloping to me...unlike any authentic ones I've seen...and as denny says the stock looks way off.
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Chris, you are awesome.
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wow Chris...way cool!
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Maestro
I believe Chris was the one responsible for the family portraits at the end of the Haunted Mansion ride at Disneyland. Nice Job!
Brian |
Chris....
:eek:
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Counterfeit. As suggested, it may be a skinned back. Rarely are the Elberfeld (W) not OC. Beginner collectors would be wise to invest in a black light, before investing in cards.
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Resident card expert Kevin Saucier has offered to look at the card for me. I will ship it to him and he will give what I consider to be the final word (yea or nay) on its authenticity. Thanks Kevin!
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It's got some pretty sharp corners for something that looks like it went through a garbage disposal.
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The background tone and front face image as well as the black border seems to make it stand out as a fake - but a loop is what I would use anyways with something this bad
Jimmy |
I think it's real.
The closeups that show the lips and the uniform near the bottom border look right for the way the colors were layered and screened. Steve B |
Got the card.
I am a bit rusty but this card is very real in my opinion. It has a typical 206 litho on time era fiber card stock; not printed front or back with a modern laser or inkjet. It passed the black light test and I cannot see where it has been refronted/rebacked, reshaped, or recolored. (*note- refronting can be very tough to determine if done well) Can't understand why but unfortunately it has been recently retoned (either accidentally or with intent) with what seems to be coffee, rather sloppily I might add. Doesn't appear to be trimmed. The card is a hot mess. Just my humble opinion, I've been wrong before. Kevin Saucier |
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Hi Kevin, I don't think it has been refronted, it has the same stray print mark/defect as some of the other Elberfeld (portraits). Here's the card in question with another Elberfeld (wash) portrait.
Patrick |
Hi Pat, refronting is taking the very thin original card front and placing it on another back. The long process often goes wrong and the card front (or back) is mangled...not unlike this card. However, when done with skill, it is near impossible to tell even with the best trained eye.
Kevin |
I hate to say WE told you so.....
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i still think its fake...but I have been wrong...and IF it is real...it is REAL UGLY!!!!!
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that are were not part of the normal printing process and this particular mark would have only been on Elberfelds or possibly one other player from the same sheet position if the back plates were used on two different sets of fronts. If it were refronted it would of had to have been done on a card with the same mark on the back. Here's an example of a more pronounced mark that is found on several Ganzel and Brains that came from the same sheet positions. |
I'll concede to Kevin's opinion on this one since he has had it in hand. I am surprised but not dumbfounded. :) It just doesn't have that "real" look to me, from the pics shown, but so be it. I will be wrong again, hopefully not too soon.
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I will concede to Kevins opinion as well (but would not have risked my $5 for it), and learned not to drink coffee next to any valuable cards!!!!
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Still a fake. Characteristic printing of a reprint, heavy atypical wear...plus a valuable card to boot. Either of the first two is a huge red flag...both on a commonly reprinted, expensive card, and people still think it's real???
Mac |
Just looks like one of those reprint Ty Cobbs that they pour coffee on, run over with a truck, tear in in two. put tape on, rip the tape off, trim, and then say "Found this in a yard sale. Looks old to me.".
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Hi Kevin
I know, like, and trust Kevin so I assume he is probably correct, however I still am not willing to state 100% it is real without looking at it myself. Good to see you post on here again Kevin. (Though the coffee was one of my main concerns from the start.)
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