OT: Did Adam Dunn ruin his Hall chances
 

Said he will most likely retire after this season, he would have been almost a lock for 500 HR's, now, since he won't reach that, is he a HOF'er?

http://mweb.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on...eason?v=1&vc=1


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Yeah, he did. By hitting .210

Don't think Dunn w/ or w/o 500 HR's will make the Hall.
Though I hope he does well w/ Oakland for the remainder of this year

This generations Dave Kingman.

I've personally never looked at Dunn as a future HOFer anyway. 500 home runs or not, most of his other stats are plain awful. OBP is decent, but he walked a ton (only 1,600+ career hits). Strikeouts are ridiculous. The two in front of him on the all-time list for strikeouts are Reggie Jackson (HOFer) and Jim Thome (likely HOFer), but those guys played much longer. Thome's numbers are waaaaaay better than Dunn's, too.

He has always seemed so old to me, but he's only 34. I tend to forget that he started younger than most, and playing very mediocre ball over the last few years have left fans (especially in Chicago) wondering when the torture was going to end.

All-in-all though, I wish him the best this last month.

. . . or Crime Dog

Crime Dog????? Crime dog was a far far far far better hitter than both these guys. He's a HOFer in my opinion, just didn't get to the magical number sports writers need.

McGriff is close. Dunn is not close in my opinion, although he can BB with the best of them.

He's also very young for the HR numbers he's put up.

Rob

Agree I don't think he hurt his chances. I always said he'll be the first 500 HR hitter not to be elected.(not including guys like Palmeiro and Sheff). He's just so one dimensional and doesn't hit for avg. His .200 hitting every yr drives me nuts.

Loved McGriff by the way. Much, much better player than Dunn, no doubt.

You have to be kidding! Even if he hit 600 HRs. No way a HOFer.. And yes McGriff was a 10 times better player than Dunn or Kingman, deserves much more consideration.

Strikeouts are overrated, an out is an out, but he never even cracked .270 in a season. He could get to 550 HRs and he wouldn't sniff the hall until the VC.

Kingman was a much better player.
CN

He is better than his batting average suggests, since he walked quite a bit. Pretty good RBI guy. Not a HOFer, but not worthy of scorn either.

Not even close to being a HOFer. He is/was a threat at the plate, but so one dimensional. But......I'm a Bay Area guy so I'm pulling for him. I'd like to see the A's get over the top.

Yes, in this era of PEDs, definitely a HOFer...and I really don't think this will be his last year.

Just a fraction of my Dunn RC collection. The only modern player I collect.

Two time all star whose highest MVP vote was 20th or so. He's not making the HOF, David.

Dunn isnt a hof imo

OT: Did Adam Dunn ruin his Hall chances
 

....... :)

OT: Did Adam Dunn ruin his Hall chances
 

When did I say he's a HOF'er?


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Why not Sheff?


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Doesn't Ray Schalk have the lowest non-pitcher batting average of anyone in the HoF (.253)? There is no way on earth a non-pitcher with a .239 career batting average is getting anywhere close to the HoF.

Currently 5th in active home run leaders and the only one of the five that hasn't had their name associated with PEDs. I stick by my opinion of HOF, but we can revisit this thread at a later date.

Edited to add: My opinion is based on him playing at least one more year and reaching 500 HR. If this is indeed his last year, then not a HOFer.

The ONLY way Dunn gets into the HOF is if he buys a ticket and he IS worthy of scorn.

When he was in the minors the scouts touted his ability to hit the ball to all fields and do so with power. They also said he had a great eye at the plate. The first two years in the majors, he did what the scouts said he could do. Then, he got fat and lazy.

He decided to start just strictly pulling the ball and trying to hit home runs. There went the batting average and the ability to drive in runs WITHOUT hitting a home run. He put on weight and there went the stolen base ability, the ability to go first to third on a single, score from second on a single and score from first on a double. There went his range in the outfield.

He absolutely STOPPED swinging at pitches over the outer third of the plate. So, pitchers knew this and tried to pitch out there. If they were successful, Dunn struck out without even taking the bat off of his shoulder. If they weren't Dunn walked.

People say that strike outs are just like any other out and that a walk is better than an out. Well, if Dunn were on the team YOU were a fan of, you would soon change your mind. You would get tired of the strike outs that did NOTHING to help your team win and the walks that just put the onus of driving in a run/s on a lesser player who hits lower in the order and who is getting paid much less.

Dunn LOVES and is passionate about football and baseball just happened to be a job. That is why his stats went into the tank EVERY September when the football season started. Look it up.

As far as the HOF goes, I always said NOBODY in their right mind would think of Dunn as hall worthy.

Highest batting average in a season was .266. For his career, he is a .237 batter. I think only guys who played GREAT defense are in the HOF with an average that low. On top of that, his BA with runners in scoring position is about .220 while his BA against left handed pitching is about .200.

His season high for home runs was 46 but his career high for rbi's in a season was 106. In two different seasons Dunn hit 40 or more home runs but did not have 100 rbi. Three different years Dunn hit 40 or more home runs and drew over 100 walks but scored fewer than 100 runs. In 2008, Dunn had 40 home runs, 122 walks and scored only 79 runs. Being overweight and out of shape will do that to you.

Dunn NEVER won a home run title. He never won an rbi title. He never won a Silver Slugger. He never won a Gold Glove. He was on only two All Star teams and for both of those he was chosen by the manager and NOT voted in by the fans.

For the people who said he was great, my response always was, if every team has to have an All Star representative then WHY is it always some OTHER player than Dunn that is chosen?

Dunn was HORRIBLE on defense with no range and a weak and inaccurate throwing arm. He was always amongst the league leaders in errors for an outfielder.

So far during his 14 year career he has played on ONE team that had a winning record.

Every team that he played for the fans were happy to have him UNTIL they saw how he played and when he was gone, they rejoiced.

In 2008, the Reds had a higher winning percentage and scored more runs per game AFTER Dunn was traded away than before. After the Diamondbacks traded for him, they had a lower winning percentage and scored fewer runs per game than they had before they got him. The fans were happy when he was gone.

The Nationals, even though they added other players, NEVER had a winning season with Dunn. Their fans were happy when he was gone.

The White Sox had one winning season with Dunn on the team. His first season there, he had a horrific season that was near record setting for ineptness. He has been traded and the Sox fans are happy.

I truly feel sorry for the Athletics now. They have traded for an overweight platoon player who historically tanks in September and who has said he is pretty much determined to retire after this season.

The ONLY thing Dunn is going to be good for is leading the rookies to karaoke night, taking them to UFC fights and teaching them the finer points of how to drink a case of beer while sitting on the couch playing video games (look all of those things up on Google).

No, Dunn is absolutely NOT a Hall Of Fame player.

David

Steroids AND a dick head.

Not really. A strikeout can't advance a runner, drive in a run or put pressure on the defense.

Oh yeah, as far as MVP votes go, he received votes in three different seasons and his highest finish was 21st. This means there were tams that had TWO players on them that received more votes than Dunn had.

According to baseballreference.com, Dunn led in walks twice and strike outs four times.

According to their evaluation system, Dunn's highest year for WAR was 2004 when he accumulated 4.7. THAT was the ONLY year he had more than 3. There were three years where he put up 2 WAR. In 2011, he put up -2.9 WAR. NEGATIVE 2.9 WAR.

In 13 years as an outfielder, he had 2089 Chances and 69 Errors. That is an .967 Fielding Percentage. People complained that the Reds didn't have good pitchers. Well, with Dunn fielding like THAT and playing in a bandbox, NO pitcher could be good.

As far as black ink goes, baseball reference has him at 4 where an average Hall Of Famer is at 27. For grey ink, they have him at 87 where an average HOF'er is at 144.

Pretty much any way you look at him, measure him or do anything you want with him, Adam "one tool" Dunn is NOT a Hall Of Fame player.

David

Oh yeah, for fun, go to a stats page and look at where Dunn stands on the career home run list. Then start looking at the guys around him and the stats THEY put up. Compare Dunn to Alfonso Soriano. Soriano put up similar home run stats as Dunn and did so while playing Second Base and leading off. So, which guy is more deserving of the Hall Of Fame? If Dunn is a HOF'er then Soriano has to be a slam dunk to go in....

I totally agree - check out the MLB average runs scored this year and the several years leading up to it and then check the increase in acceptance of strikeouts. There is a direct connection.

Then, check out the Braves as a microcosm of this. They made it to the playoffs by the hair of the chins and are the only team in history to qualify for postseason play while having TWO regular position players with BA's below .200. The only reason this didn't cause them to set an all-time record for LOBs is the fact that they don't walk enough.

We live in the age of Pinball Baseball and though I would never offer up Adam Dunn as a Hall-of-Fame candidate, I have enjoyed his contribution to this 'phase' in baseball history. Dunn, himself, has downplayed any discussion of he even being a great athlete...but he has been a great one-trick donkey!

By the way, with the NL Batting Leader currently at .311, look for some 'tweaking' to be done to the rules in order to increase the offense. Yes, you heard it here first.

Hall Of Fame StatisticsPlayer rank in (·)


Black Ink Batting - 4 (431), Average HOFer ≈ 27

Gray Ink Batting - 87 (270), Average HOFer ≈ 144

Hall of Fame Monitor Batting - 75 (257), Likely HOFer ≈ 100

Hall of Fame Standards Batting - 33 (259), Average HOFer ≈ 50

JAWS Left Field (133rd), 16.6 career WAR/17.4 7yr-peak WAR/17.0 JAWS
Average HOF LF (out of 19) = 65.1 career WAR/41.5 7yr-peak WAR/53.3 JAWS

David -- come on. 500 HR was not getting him any closer than Albany.

If Dunn had struck out less, he would have grounded into more double plays.

I don't care if he makes it, I love Dunn. He's such a great person to the game and clubhouse guy. Met him twice and he was so down to earth. Quite an actor too! ;)


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I just can't wait to see him in the white shoes!

Peter - Spaeth,

I beg to differ.

Look at his fly ball to ground ball ratio. Then look at his home run to fly ball ratio. Dunn is a fly ball hitter who didn't ground into double plays.

If Dunn would have struck out less then he would have made more productive outs not to mention some of the times he actually made contact would have been for hits and home runs.

One other thing I didn't say about Dunn in my previous posts; there was a time where he went almost two full seasons (almost either 1100 at bats or plate appearances) where he DID NOT HIT A SACRIFICE FLY!!!!

Think about THAT.

A guy who bats in the middle of the order and who hits more fly balls than anything when he makes contact and he can't drive a guy in with a Sac Fly for almost two full seasons.

David

Isn't that a Yogism?....if you think you're gonna hit into a double play, go ahead and strike out :D

Correct, because he was associated with PED's. He has good numbers, one heck of a swing, and I personally liked him as a player, but the whole PED connection will hurt him.

Plus, the players that are eligible for the HOF in the next 5 yrs is pretty amazing. It's stacked.

I know he's not your typical HOFer but hitting 40 home runs five years in a row is pretty special.

He wouldn't have a chance even if he did hit 500. Even in his prime i wouldn't want him on my team, the strikeout numbers are horrendous.
2002 NL 170 (2nd)
2004 NL 195 (1st)
2005 NL 168 (1st)
2006 NL 194 (1st)
2007 NL 165 (3rd)
2008 NL 164 (5th)
2009 NL 177 (3rd)
2010 NL 199 (2nd)
2011 AL 177 (3rd)
2012 AL 222 (1st)
2013 AL 189 (3rd)
2014 AL 132 (7th)
Active 2,352 (1st)
Career 2,352 (3rd)

As a die hard White Sox fan, all I can say is good riddance. Possibly the worst free agent signing and biggest waste of money in the history of baseball. From day one an absolute worthless turd of a player. Been waiting 4 years for this anchor to be cut loose, I'm sorry he's going to a possible playoff team, he does not deserve it. If he EVER made the HOF I'd never pay attention to anything from them ever again. Sorry for the rant but I despise Adam Dunn.

I know it seems we have differing opinions a lot, Peter :p

but...

The number of times a guy has made the All Star Game really shouldn't have much of an impact on a player's chances at the Hall of Fame, especially when every team has to send somebody to the game. Derek Jeter made the All Star Game this year, and as great as he has been throughout his career, he shouldn't have been an All Star this year. The All Star Game is supposed to recognize the best players in Major League baseball that particular season. Jeter was hitting .272 with 2 HR and 25 RBI at the time of the game.

Robin Yount, one of the best shortstops to ever play the game, was voted to the All Star Game only three times in his career. Hell, in 1989, he was the American League MVP, and won a Silver Slugger Award, too. But he wasn't an All Star.

If he's so bad, why would a playoff contention team trade for him? Hmmm....

Yes, it is. And if it weren't for an absolutely horrid 2011 season where he hit .159, he would have had ten 30 home run seasons in a row. That's something Babe Ruth, Mickey Mantle and Hank Aaron didn't accomplish.

That made me laugh.

Oh, yes. I was in Milwaukee when we brought Sheffield up to the Majors. He was a total head case, thought his you-know-what didn't stink, even though he hit .247 with 5 HR and 32 RBI in his second season.

Well, that's not really fair, or accurate. Kingman, when he wasn't hitting a home run, was an out. He had a career .302 OBP. He only walked 60 times in a season once. Dunn has a career .365 OBP. So even though he doesn't hit for average, he still gets on base a good amount of the time. Eight seasons with over 100 walks, two of which he led the league, and another season in which he walked 128 times, tells me that Dunn had at least a decent eye. Kingman's stats tells me he was up there swinging for the fences, and not doing much else.

Right there in your first post. You asked Is he a HOFer. And I answered No just like 90% of all the other people did!:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Just because hes a Great person and clubhouse guy doesnt punch your ticket to the HOF. If that was the case I can name you 200 more that should be there! Like I said even if he hit 600 HRs no way on this earth he makes it. Case closed on this one.

You still are struggling mightily with what I have been saying. I never said I think he is a HOF'er. Simply because I asked the question does not mean so. A lot if individuals put a lot of weight on the Hall numbers that are pretty much locks. And 500 is one of those HOF monitors. And that is why I asked the question, for those who go with the HOF "lock" numbers.


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I think you'd have a hard time finding anyone who considers 500 HRs a "lock" number anymore.

"Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
If Dunn had struck out less, he would have grounded into more double plays.

That made me laugh."

Thank you for appreciating my understated humor. Someone thought I was defending his strikeouts.

Yes your right 500 HRs was the magic number years ago when baseball was normal. Its not anymore with the advent of PEDs I would find it very hard to put any of those other 500+ HR hitters (users )in the Hall!
Getting back to Mr Dunn the question you asked is " Is he a HOFer" and the answer is No. You cant put a guy who hits the Mendoza line every year and strikes out more times than my blind Grandmother.

Or 3000 hits, see Craig Biggio (although he will get in eventually). But if Juan Pierre gets to 3000 (he has tailed off and likely won't but a couple of years ago it was not an unreasonable possibility), I can't imagine he gets in ever. Actually Adrian Beltre looks to have a real good shot, is he a HOFer?

Because they are sinking like a rock and are desperate. Injuries and losing 4 in a row to the division leading team will make an organization do stupid things. This is #1 on that list.

I don't know about that. To be fair, Dunn's .340 OBP will rank him at the top of the team. Crisp has a .346. Donaldson has a .349. Moss has the same .340.

I think he will add some value to the A's during their push.

beltre is one of my favorite players...and on his current trajectory should be a hof'er. if he was white and in ny he would've locked it up already.

edit: and dunn...lol! i'm not gonna even.

What does NY have to do w/ anything?
If there is such a NY bias, then why isn't Munson & Mattingly in?
And does anyone think Bernie Williams, Paul O'Neill, ANdy Pettite, Mike Mussina are shoe-ins?

mussina should be in...

in what other cities would bernie and paul o'neill be even in the discussion??? i've never thought of them as legit cases.

pettite obviously no way (10 other ped guys would get in first before pettite).

It's got to be tough, thinking that way. I'm sure Beltre does not.

I don't think Mussina belongs or Mattingly/Munson. Dunn definitely not. McGriff was a far superior player, no? He had 6 top 10 MVP finishes compared to 0 for Dunn.

He had a very nice year in Boston, I didn't and don't understand why there wasn't more of an effort to keep him. He is only 35 and playing as well as ever, looking at his numbers he should be a pretty compelling case especially if he gets to 3000 hits.

Come on. Bernie Williams was a great centerfielder. Five seasons in which he drove in and scored 100 runs. Perennial all star switch hitter who played gold glove defense. Absolutely clutch when it mattered. Not a HOFer but you can't take anything away from him.

I think they were desperate to stop the bleeding from trading Cespedes - their offense has gone in the toilet for August. Dunn was probably their best option, and not a bad one - sometimes a player performs really well when initially in a new environment, and the playoff prospect might also get Dunn rev'd up.

Agree completely. I see little downside to the move for Oakland, even if Dunn performs with Dunn-like numbers. Power off the bench or in the DH slot gives the team strategic options and makes the opponent have to prepare differently. I liken it somewhat to when the Twins picked up Don Baylor the last 20 games of the 1987 season. He contributed a little bit and then had a great post-season, especially World Series, even though his time in the Bigs was basically done. I don't know that Dunn brings the same intangibles as Baylor, but he could get energized for his final run, especially once the playoffs roll around. I wish him well, mostly because I'll be rooting for Oakland.

I think so too, Scott.

BTW, since 2001 (his rookie year) only two other players have hit more home runs.

In regards to Adrian Beltre, and not to sidetrack this thread, but-- He is 25 hits away from 2,600, and 7 hr's away from 400.

Has anyone taken a look at the list of players with at least 2,500 hits and 400 hr's? He's definitely getting in. Pretty impressive list......

Brent, do you believe Dunn is a HoF'er? I do not believe he is, most all of us lean in that direction. How about you?

I do not believe he is a HOF'er.


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Congrats to Dunn on his first Home Run as an Oakland A.

Most of the comments in this thread are laughable. I can't wait to re-visit it in a few years.

Dunn first AB a HR!


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Adam Dunn?!?!?!?!?!?
 

2 big reasons why he will not make the Hall:

Lifetime BA is .237. The lowest non pitcher average in Hall is Ray Schalk at .253 so this alone would keep him out.

The other reason is his nickname of "Big Donkey". No hall of famer exists with that nickname nor will there ever be one! :D

Peace, Mik:)

Adam Dunn got traded? For the past week all the baseball fans in Chicago have been fixated on future HOFer Jorge Soler!

It bears repeating. The 133rd best left fielder of all time!!

Hall Of Fame StatisticsPlayer rank in (·)


Black Ink Batting - 4 (431), Average HOFer ≈ 27

Gray Ink Batting - 87 (270), Average HOFer ≈ 144

Hall of Fame Monitor Batting - 75 (257), Likely HOFer ≈ 100

Hall of Fame Standards Batting - 33 (259), Average HOFer ≈ 50

JAWS Left Field (133rd), 16.6 career WAR/17.4 7yr-peak WAR/17.0 JAWS
Average HOF LF (out of 19) = 65.1 career WAR/41.5 7yr-peak WAR/53.3 JAWS

Jeez, if Jeff Bagwell can't get in, and Frank Howard (a similar type, but much more consistent batter) couldn't get more then 2% of the vote when he was eligible...I don't see how Adam Dunn doesn't get knocked off the ballot his first year eligible, no matter how many HR's he ends up hitting.

He's basically Gorman Thomas c. 1978-85, spread out over a bit longer time period, though Thomas was probably a much more valuable fielder in his heyday then Dunn ever was.

Say what you will about his other stats, but when it comes to hitting home runs Dunn is in rarified air. The HOF rewards home run hitters. So I don't know what is so laughable about Dunn being voted in for his ability to hit home runs. Home runs are the only reason a lot of players are in the Hall. Killebrew, Reggie Jackson, Kiner: they're all in for their ability to hit home runs.

Here are the players who have hit 40 home runs at least 5 years in a row:

Adam Dunn
Babe Ruth
Ralph Kiner
Duke Snider
Ken Griffey Jr.
Barry Bonds
Alex Rodriguez
Sammy Sosa


Three of those cheated to do it. One is the greatest player of all time. The others are HOFers.

And none of those guys put up their numbers while hitting .237 over the course of an entire career. As mentioned earlier, .237 would be 16 points lower than any other non-pitcher in the HoF.

IMO, it is time to lock the doors at Coorperstown if .237 hitters start getting inducted

Hey Packs, since we are doing lists then I have one for the board:

Eddie Joost — Career Batting Average: .239
Eddie Miller — Career Batting Average: .238
Aurelio Rodriguez — Career Batting Average: .237
Adam Dunn – Career Batting Average: .237
Dave Kingman — Career Batting Average: .236
Monte Cross — Career Batting Average: .234
Brandon Inge — Career Batting Average: .233

Jeopardy time: What are some of the WORST career MLB batting averages with min time?
Who on this list once had a batboy fill in for him on a bb card and rightly should have had the batboy actually hitting for him?
Which of these players is or deserves to be in the hall of fame?

1000 times to the plate and on average he goes back to the bench 763 times?!?!?!?!?!?!? UGH!!!!!!!

It does however give hope to struggling little leaguers, I'll give him that! :eek:

peace, Mik:)

I don't think he's a HOFer either but I think he deserves more respect. His power was special.

Saying Dunn and Kingman do nothing but hit home runs is like Buddy Ryan saying Cris Carter did nothing but catch touchdown passes.

Love live KONG!!!

Whoa! Never heard of OBP?
 

1000 times to the plate and on average he goes back to the bench 763 times?!?!?!?!?!?!? UGH!!!!!!!
_____________________________

You've been reading too many 1910 stats from the T205s. Do runs scored on walks not count toward the game score??

I don't see Dunn as a HOFer, but let's at least be fair- try 634 times in 1000.

His OBP is very respectable- higher than MANY HOFers. Granted most of those guys had other skills like fielding, but still, you sound like a know-nothing when you overstate your objections.

Addendum:

Just to follow up, Dunn’s OBP is even better than I thought relative to HOFers:

.366 better than:

Clemente
Yount
Winfield
Perez
Puckett
Murray
Ripken
Dawson (.323, for cryin’ out loud)
Brock
Bench
Stargell
Banks
Medwick (.324 BA but lower OBP)
Lloyd Waner
and Sam Crawford !!


Equal to Santo
3 points below Molitor!

And these are only the guys elected for their hitting- Need I go on?

Again, I don’t think Dunn should be in the HOF but the idea really isn’t that bizarre--

At one point, it looked like Johnny Damon was going to get 3,000 hits. He stumbled at the very end, playing only 64 games in 2012 while hitting .222. So, he ended with 2,769 hits. But if a few things had gone differently, if just a few of those outs had become hits, another team looking for a veteran presence on a young team might have given Damon a 1 or 2 year contract. Damon still had some power and speed. He didn't run as often, but he was successful on 46 of his last 53 stolen base attempts. He had 16 home runs in 2011. So, it wouldn't have been shocking if he'd gotten to 3,000 hits.

Would Johnny Damon have been a Hall of Famer with 3,000 hits? I say no. Not even close. Why?

Led the league in runs scored once, in triples once, in stolen bases once.
Never won an MVP, a Gold Glove, or a Silver Slugger. Never finished in the MVP top 10.
His numbers just don't impress. .284 career batting average, 235 home runs, 1,139 RBI are pretty average considering the era he played in. 1,668 runs scored and 408 stolen bases in 511 attempts, that's more impressive.
Career slash line: .352/.433/.785 is ok, nothing special.

Now, in his defense, I think his best years were in Kansas City, so he didn't get the exposure, or recognition, that his play might have warranted. However, that never held players like George Brett, or Bret Saberhagen, or Dan Quisenberry from making names for themselves. In 2000, Damon was 19th in the MVP vote when he hit .327 with a league leading 136 runs scored, 214 hits, 42 doubles, 10 triples, 16 home runs, 88 RBI, 46 stolen bases (lead the AL) and an .877 OPS. That's not an MVP season, really, but 19th in the voting? That's a top-ten-in-the-MVP-vote season to me.

Also:
9 consecutive seasons over 100 runs scored.
522 career doubles, 109 triples, 235 home runs.

But, again, he could have ended up with 3,000 hits.

I think before this era, which was definitely geared towards offense, 3,000 hits and 500 home runs were just more impressive. Fewer teams meant that the overall talent level in the game was greater. Now you have players in the Major Leagues that wouldn't have made it to the Majors in the 60s or 70s.
You also have to remember that back in the day, seasons were only 154 games long. Now they're 162. That's not a big deal on a small scale, but if you play 15 to 20 years, that extra 8 games a season adds up. Play 20 years, and you've basically added a whole extra years worth of numbers to your career total. Play 15 years, and you've added an extra 120 games. That's an extra 130-150 hits for a good player, making that 3,000 hit threshold more attainable by those good, not great players who manage to stay in the game, and healthy, for a long period of time.

When you start to add all these things together-longer seasons, slightly watered down talent across the league, improvements to conditioning and strength training, a change to the mound height, etc...all these things make it a little easier for a player to get close to 3,000 hits. Then you start getting players who really shouldn't be considered for Cooperstown putting up numbers that twenty years ago would have warranted serious consideration.

Not to hijack the thread, but there was much more at work with regard to that Buddy Ryan quote. That was Ryan's way of cutting Carter without publicly humiliating the guy by saying he was being released due to his addiction problem. Carter has long credited Buddy Ryan cutting him for helping save his life; not his career, his life. Carter also publicly thanked Ryan during his HoF induction speech.

http://www.csnphilly.com/football-ph...yan-hof-speech

While those numbers are accurate, you want to make sure to consider the eras these different players competed in. Dunn has played in an era that heavily favored offense.

I just ran two quick reports on Baseball Reference. Between 2000 and 2014, there have been nine players to accumulate 3,000 or more at bats, and have a .400 or better on base percentage, and another, Miguel Cabrera, at .396.

Between 1960 and 1980, same 3,000 at bat threshold, there were only two players to have a .400 or better on base percentage, Mickey Mantle at .415, and Mike Hargrove at .403.

The point to this? Players in this era have a naturally higher on base percentage than players back in the era you just listed. Adam Dunn's skills as a hitter are downplayed too much, in my opinion. I don't care what era a player is in. Hitting as many home runs as he has takes skill. It might not be as impressive as before, but even with the prevalence of PEDS in the game now, you're still not seeing a flood of people hitting 500 home runs. And people need to keep that in mind. Yes, players might realize an increase in their seasonal home run totals for a time, but to get 500 means you were a consistently great power hitter for a long time. If a man averages 30 home runs a season, which is quite an achievement, they'd have to average 30 home runs for 17 seasons.

Here are those two reports I referenced:

1960 to 1980
http://imageshack.com/a/img673/7751/j4U5hD.png

2000 to 2014
http://imageshack.com/a/img540/9985/y9sYe2.png

This isn't, of course, a perfect test, but it shows at least that in this era, there is a higher overall OBP across the board.

Hits a bomb in first Oakland ab. He could sniff the hall if he hits 500.

Bill, I agree
 

with you about the relative imptce of OBP-- players between 1960 and 1995 were disadvantaged in that regard. And I wouldn't advocate kicking any of those guys out of the HOF.

However, my initial point was to undermine another poster's obsession with Dunn's low batting average. BA has to be the most overvalued stat in BB history.

In the final analysis, no single stat (OBP, BA, SLG, HR total) is enough to evaluate a player's overall career. I happen to think SLG and OBP are the most crucial ones, but even then Dunn doesn't make my HOF despite his undeniable skills in those areas. There is something to be said for all-around skill a la Molitor, Yount, Bench, Winfield, etc etc.