T206 Titus and Bliss *cancelled*
 

Hey, looking to sell these cards, ideally together. The Jack Bliss has outstanding eye appeal, and the corners are excellent, but a little paper loss at the top of its back knocked it to a PSA 2. Initially I bought the Titus because he's the only 'stache in the set, but that sentiment wore off for me...still think it's an excellent card. Both are Piedmont 350, factory 25

Looking for $60 or best offer, pm if interested.

Here are the backs as well

pm sent
 

i'll take them if still available

I'm surprised no one told him the Titus is worth about $400.

Done
 

It is now done !!

Yeah... I'm guessing he didn't research Titus-itis before posting this.

The seller withdrew the offer, so it goes. Reneged is another word, but it was probably a deal too good to be true.

For those who responded to the OP, that's cool, but I hope you consider your motives. Was it just because you missed out? I remember earlier this year there was a lot of Obaks posted here that were literally a couple of bucks each and TONS of competition for it but the seller ended up honoring his original price.

One of the reasons we collect is to get a good buy now and then...one on the order of 10-25% of the value of the card. It is not only reasonable but probably necessary because the course of the the hobby is that you will overpay for some things. When you spend a lot of time scouring boards, the reward for it is that sometimes you are first in and you offer a seller a price that he set that is too low.

The Obak solution
 

I was the one who ended up with the Lemke Obaks. Bob honored his price, and I think I came up with a decent solution to the dilemma of getting a steal on the lot...I put up a decent amount of them for auction on our BST, and then sent along the winning bid money on the lots to Bob...it didn't feel right depriving one of our own of some of the money he could have gotten for the lot.

If I had picked up the group on ebay (and I have gotten some great deals there)...no way would I do something similiar.

Brian

Yep, sorry everyone, I took down the offer. A rookie mistake...I was completely unaware of Titus-itis. I'll try to be much more informed in the future before I do this thing again. My apologies for all the false hope

What do you mean by "took down the offer"? It still reads "looking for $60 or best offer" in your opening post. Pretty lame situation all around.

Is it still available?

Hopefully Leon sees this. I have no problem with him saying it's a rookie mistake and taking the cards back because of how much he would have lost, but he shouldn't be allowed to use the BST anymore. At least for a certain amount of time, since he did back out on a deal. Seems like a fair trade-off though. He keeps a pricey card, but as a new board member, he has a quick strike and without a track record, he should be done selling(personally I'd go for a certain time period while he can build up trust)

I think the strike should be on the members who fail to inform someone they are asking 10-20% of the value of something. I guess I hold the members of the board in a bit higher regard than I should? But alas, I am a broker and I do not not know what the word "fair" means according to some people.

Geez, I wonder who bought it behind the scenes :rolleyes:

Ill take that. If I need to be exiled from the bst board for a while, that's fine. It really was a rookie mistake...I simply didn't know what I was getting into. I can just stick to posting in the main board and pm's for a while...sorry again...and ill try to edit the title

The guy shouldn't be banned from the BST. It is not like he knew what he had and backed out of a deal. He had no clue what he had. We are a card collecting community on this board. We shouldn't be trying to force someone to take a $400 loss on this card. When he posted it, we should simply explain the mistake to him, educate him about the demand for the card, and give him the opportunity to list it at a fair price. The fact that someone said "I'll take it" before Sean mentioned the price shouldn't alter the analysis. And, I don't blame the person for saying I will take it but no one should expect or actually want the member to sell it at that price. If any of us made a mistake in a listing on here, we would want someone to notify us about it.

The amazing deals that are out there are one of the great things about collecting, but this isn't eBay or a fleemarket.

Just my two cents.

+1 - well said. This is supposed to be a place to gain knowledge. We'd all like to make a good deal, but let's not pilfer from a community member who didn't know what he had.

Me too, it wasn't me.

+1

It's like many years ago a 12 year old kid purchased a mint 68 Nolan Ryan for $16 from a card store. The card was marked $1600. The kid knew this. He took advantage when the owner had his mom or someone watching the store. She knew nothing and thought the 1600 read 16.00.

I say he stole the card. I guess some of you see it as he got a good deal.

No I'm going to keep it for now and try to sell it once I'm more versed on this stuff

I'm curious as to how you came about it...

No winners here . . .
 

There is good authority for those sticking up for the seller - it appears that he was unaware of his mistake as to value (approx. 1/10th) and pretty much any collector who would purchase knew or should have known of his mistake.

That said, I would be PISSED if someone posted a 1914 Cracker Jack Pratt for $300 and then avoided the deal because they didn't realize what they had . . . So it goes . . .

Straight From The Forum Rules.....
 

Buy/Sell/Trade Areas
Posts offering to buy, sell, or trade items should be made in the appropriate Buy/Sell/Trade index. This includes posts for items appearing in on-line auctions such as eBay, Grand Slam Bids and auction houses etc... Buy/Sell/Trade threads in the wrong categories, or forums, will be moved or deleted. There should be no interference by 3rd parties within the Buy/Sell/Trade areas. Third parties are those not involved in a transaction. This includes, but is not limited to, posting current or historical cost information, commenting negatively on the offer or item, or anything that interferes with the listing in a negative way. Only persons involved in the transaction should post in the thread, however benign or favorable comments are generally permitted by third parties. If you don't know the difference between them, then please don't post. One exception is to expose fraudulent activity. It may always be posted in any thread, anywhere on the board, but you better have your ducks in a row and your name by your post when you report these misdeeds. “Caveat Emptor- Buyer Beware” to all members. Each member uses the board at their own risk. Net54baseball does not monitor, and is not responsible for, transactions. Our sole recourse, in a punitive manner is suspension or banishment from the board. The Uniform Commercial Code of Law of the United States applies. We will work with authority’s when/if the need arises. Please request references from your trading partners when they are not well known or you don’t know them. Whenever someone resists giving a reference, upon request, please contact the moderator as that is, many times, a red flag.

Once any transaction is completed in the Buy/Sell/Trade areas, or over with, that transaction shouldn’t be deleted. Specific pricing, or confidential information may be removed but the other information should stay. Items should be consolidated in the BST area, into one thread, when appropriate. In other words don’t list more than a few similar items in single threads, in the same BST area, at once. IF you do this, they will most likely be deleted and asked to be posted again in a consolidated fashion. You should not bump a BST thread to the top very often (every 3-4 days at most) as it is discourteous to other posters.

Rules are rules I suppose, but sometimes we have to empathize with the other person don't we?


Maybe the solution is to have a little more fair deal struck between the first two parties. Not market value but also not dirt cheap. Lets say 50% of the card value instead of 10%.
If I would have been the seller I would be sick about it and would try to work something out, if I couldn't work anything out I would go ahead with the sell as promised.
But if I were the buyer, I think I would understand the position of the seller and make some concessions. Maybe $200, that feels about right.

Just my 2-cents.

Funny how when I sold some purple E94's on the cheap a little ways back noone was screaming bloody murder. I guess it's only T206'!

Well said, Sean.

Even though the rules (thanks Phil) state that no one should interfere in a transaction like so, I have no doubt that more than a handful of people would instead PM or email the seller about giving this card away...or at least I hope they would. I believe there are some unwritten rules when it comes to card collecting/selling...at least I believe there is.

I know the seller obligated himself by listing this card for a certain price, but I think it was an opportunity to help him out and not take him to the shed on the sale. I'd say he understands what happened here and won't make the same mistake again...hopefully.

How cheap was it, Pete? 10% of the current value? Maybe it wasn't as obvious as this Titus listing?

How do you know people didn't inform him via PM? I've done that before on here for cards that were still for sale at least 4-5 times, but never for something that sold, because then you're interfering in a transaction. As someone pointed out, that's a main rule for the BST.

Looks like the card was sold within five minutes of it being listed, and since it was listed at 2am EST, I'm not sure how many people you would expect to give him a heads up in under five minutes at a crazy hour?

As far as learning his lesson, he did, he still has the card and will get a fair price. That shouldn't change the fact that he's a new board member with no selling track record and shouldn't be allowed to sell after backing out on a deal. I think there should be a good time limit set on when you can START selling on the board, which would give people time to learn things like this and give others a chance to trust them.

the disparity in % may not have been as great...but the % of disappointed sellers was significant.

"If a tree falls in the forest and noone sees or hears it...did it fall?"

If anyone of us finds a "steal" in a local flea market or antique shop..or even ebay sometimes....and then shows it here...kudos are distributed in grand fashion and noone claims the riot act and wants to contact the seller...but when it happens here...different story.

In this day and age...it is easy to do the research...it's simple as that!

That's true Pete, but I always consider this to be a more friendly type community. When I meet fellow members at card shows, I like to be able to hold my head up high and know that I have always been fair and honest.

Some people tend to look after each other here...eBay is more of an independent selling area, but I guess you can look at it any way that you would please. If he was selling the Titus for $200 I would have no problem with it, but selling it for pennies kind of disturbs me somewhat.

I'm not hating on either side of this situation, but just giving my opinion on the matter. If you think it's bs that he reneged on the sale, so be it...it doesn't hurt my feelings :D

Hey...i'm just playing devils advocate here...I don't really have a beef either way...it just seems oftentimes there is a double standard.

Additionally I feel that the evergrowing culture of renegging has become so commonplace...that all accountability is being lost. And without this...civility is lost!

Nothing "bliss" ful about this thread!

This is not a raw card that the seller inherited from his great grandfather, and I'm not sure it would matter if it was. It is something the he had bought and got tired of and decided to sell. He should have some idea of what he paid for it and was happy with the price he was selling if for...His email to me was "You've got it." I am quite comfortable with the ethics of paying a person who comes on a Buy Sell Trade board and makes the conscious decision to sell his cards with or without research his full asking price. If this person is mentally disabled or senile, I would feel differently.

When I owned a store or was a dealer, I felt obligated to pay people who brought their cards into my shop a fair market, which at that time, believe it or not, was 50% or more. If I walk into a show or a shop and someone has something priced cheaply I feel no remorse in buying it and I doubt anyone else would so long as it is not mis-priced. I see this board pretty much as if it were a show and the people who post have made a conscious decision to be dealers.

in the OP's defense, his original posted said something along the lines of "$60 or best offer".

Did he officially accept a person's offer? If he's getting $200+ offers and hasn't accepted one yet, perhaps all is fine. True, usually "or best offer" means something below the asking price, but in this case its higher than the price. Just some food for thought, carry on :)

woops, was writing my post as you posted ... that answers my question then :)

How difficult is it to check sold listings on eBay? No matter the side you stand on in this situation, it all comes down to the integrity of the seller. It wasn't a matter of mistyping the price, it was a lack of simple common sense and thirty seconds of research.
Many of you are moaning about this being an educational forum, yadda, yadda.....I agree. What better education/lesson learned than an 'ass-kicking' on a sale....?

Titus
 

I hope that this seller has the same Morals and Contacts the Seller that he bought it from and shares the Profits once he sells the card.I am sure that he bought the card for Less or as much as he was going to sell it for. I dont think that he was going to Loose Money on the Sale.

John P

Come on, this is not like grandma coming on here with a box full of her late husband's cards that included Wagner, Plank, Doyle, etc. and sold them to the first person who offered her $100.

This is a person who by his own introductory post the other day said,

"Got my first tobacco card at 12, next at 16, a few more at 20, and been on the hunt pretty actively since I turned 24 (I'm 27 now...dad is still at it, going to be 91 in December)."

So he knows enough about tobacco cards that he isn't a total newbie. He could look on eBay or CardTarget for current pricing, but he didn't. I'm sure he didn't "lose" money on the deal, meaning, I'm sure he sold it for as much or more than he originally paid for it.

Obviously, he was unaware of the Titus phenomenon....., but he did agree to the sale. Integrity is something that is hard to earn back. If I made the same mistake, I would honor the deal. It may be worth more than a couple hundred bucks.

Exactly, good point. No one is going to randomly dump cards for less than they paid unless they didn't sell for awhile. I'd like to hear how much the person he bought the cards from is going to receive from the eventual sale...

I agree completely.

I still have a PSA 6 Titus available for sale or trade....Thanks

The disparity in % was not even in the same ballpark. I responded first and that's why everyone else was disappointed. The prices were very fair but I doubt I could sell them for 8/10 times the purchase price. If anyone wants to offer me 8 to 10k for an SGC 30 Bates and an SGC 20 Evers let me know and I will have them in the mail tomorrow....

I'm of the opinion that when someone agrees to a deal then that is a verbal contract. Having said that, I personally wouldn't have accepted the sellers offer without informing them of the value of their card. It's a tough situation for all. Still, to expect people not to talk to the seller about what the value of their card was is pretty foolish. I understand the forums rules but if someone came on here and sold a legitimate Honus Wagner for $100 do you think everyone would just stay quiet until the deal was done? Wishful thinking.

So much for Titus-itus.

I and everyone else should know this is an honest mistake. For the people who are a little upset about this deal just think, what if you did this by mistake and lost $400 on a deal then get kicked off? All because of one mistake. Just before you get too upset just think you have no clue about anyone's financial situation. I'm not trying to get into an argument I just know that whoever is upset about this that if it happened to them they would never sell a card for that price.

Hello All.....
 

I would like to say I'm a little saddened by this post.....I feel for both seller and buyer.....I'm not perfect and have made mistakes in the past ......

I feel the seller is a newbie.....he is just getting used to T206.....let's not turn him off from the hobby and T206 because he made a "rookie" mistake:confused:.....he even put in his post that he bought it cause the stache.....lets give the guy a break on this one and give him a "pass"....

my apologies to the potential buyer for this post....I can understand your pain.....:)....I know that doesn't help much.....I'm sorry you lost out on the card...



LET us keep fresh collectors entering the hobby some encouragement....

Johnny D does have some great points, and every one else....


But I'm a libra and a softee and say give him a pass on this one....


Seller.....if you ever want advice on T206....pm or email you, I will give you the best advice I can.....:)

Thanks everyone for listening....

Completely agree with this post.

This post tells a lot more than people are realizing. I find it amazing so many people are on his side and it just makes me think people are mad they didn't see it first.

It's a regular board member that got the deal, so what most people are saying is it's okay to break a BST rule to help out someone, who is going to end up making a lot more money off the card, as opposed to a regular board member being the one that gets it. Either way, someone is getting screwed and it seems to be the long-time board member.

This person said they have been reading for a month, collecting much longer, so they aren't a rookie, they are just new to the board. They obviously got a great deal from someone else, yet no one is calling for them to give that person half the money. I said it, but it was as a joke to show how ridiculous this is.

People are also okay with this "rookie" backing out on his first deal on the board and letting him keep selling? Seriously? How is that for the betterment of the board?

This thread is really a bunch of people mad they didn't see the card first and they aren't thinking out what really happened, which is a long-time member getting screwed by other board members and a new person getting away easy with breaking a rule. That's besides all the other people who broke rules by getting involved.

I seriously can't believe how many people are on his side in this.

Alright, I need to respond to the last post. First off, I feel like total s#!t that this happened. And I apologized personally to the first buyer. This was my mistake, I admit it. But I am not some seasoned vet trying to escape punishment. This is literally the first card I've ever attempt to sell in my life. ever! I've been casually collecting since I was 12, in the sense that I've picked up a card here or there over the years. I have a total of 16 cards in my entire collection.

I truly truly didn't know about the Titus hype, and so I messed up. And like I said, I'll take my punishment and not sell on this board. Ban for me months if you want. After all this, I most definitely don't wanna be involved in this kind of thing. And I'm not secretly selling this card behind people's backs. I'll sell it on my own, independent of this forum...

I messed up, and I'm sorry. And I'm very sorry to the first buyer. I sure as heck don't wanna get involved in this kind of thing for at least the near future after all of the drama that came with it

So I just read the 52 posts in this thread. Tough call. Good points on all sides. There is a lot of precedence though. I have always said (and you guys know it) if someone backs out of "a" deal and no one is out any money then we chalk it up as a mistake. The seller isn't getting banishment or anything from me. However, when I make a mistake I try to make it right. If I were him I would at least consider selling it at half of market price if Todd would want it at that? That way damages are mitigated on both sides. Otherwise, the rules are in place. Now if someone repeatedly makes mistakes or scams or stuff like that, then they will be out of here.

I'm sorry, but a mistake is when you type in $40.00 when you meant to type in $400.00 or when you show the incorrect photo of a card with a listing. This was not a mistake, but rather the seller's "unawareness" of the current market for T206 Titus cards. To me, that's "too bad".

What if he was selling a Jack Knight card with a Lenox back for $ 40.00 and made a "mistake" by not describing the back? Then he agrees to a sale and someone else says, "can I get a scan of the back?" Wait, what? You made a mistake, that card is worth $ 400.00. You should cancel the sale.

I feel people are giving him a break because he is new to the site and is only 27 years old. That's old enough to do 3 minutes of research on the current market for the cards you want to sell.

This was not a simple mistake. If nobody butted in and notified him of the Titus market, he would have been happy with the sale. He agreed to the sale.....not a mistake. That doesn't say much for any integrity here. But that is probably fine since he's going to sell the card for big bucks.

Does anyone else get the sense that the card is already sold? I'm sure it's already "in the mail".

I do not get the sense the card was already sold. I get a sense that the seller made a mistake, and is asking for a mulligan. The fact that he is 27 does not matter. He is not a seasoned vet like many people here, nor am I for that matter. That is nothing to be ashamed of. The t206 set has so many twists and turns it may take years to fully understand it. I know I certainly make mistakes which is why I am here trying to learn more.

Is it wrong to renege on a deal? Of course it is. But I think it is also wrong to make such a huge deal about it when it is not a trend, it is an occurrence. He made a mistake, he has publicly apologized, personally apologized to the wronged, and banned himself from the b/s/t. Do we want to force him to sell the card at that price? How does that make anyone feel good about the hobby.

Well stated...and I agree!

Move on, Phil. Will you be able to sleep better tonight if we force him to sell the card? Is it better if we make him sell it for $30 and let Todd resell it for $400? Would that settle the score? Just relax and move on.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes Mikey, that would make me feel better. Is it all about the money? What about honor? Who said Todd would re-sell it? It's all about the money to a lot of people on here and yes, that does surprise me.

Mikey, would you feel differently if the OP sold it to someone who contacted him off-line the other night and didn't give the "first buyer" the chance to match it? Because that's what I feel has happened here.

+1

T206 Titus and Bliss *cancelled*
 

I would have used it as an upgrade and not resold it. And to be honest his sense of an apology basically is, "I know I agreed to it, but rookie mistake on my part, sucks for you" which didn't really give me warm and fuzzies. He absolutely did accept the deal just cancelled it after the fact. By way of explanation, I think most on this board agree that Titus is a tulip bulb run up by over speculation. In fact I would rate it as the most likely card in the set to lose value which is why I jumped on it at a low price. actually thought it was a nice 2 until rechecking the listing but knew it would not last long so I jumped on it soon as I saw it. I have one I bought last year ironically for 60 that is OC top to bottom so it will work fine.

Do you really think Todd would be this upset if he wasn't going to resell it? Really? Sure, he might keep it, but I've noticed he mentioned it in another thread so that tells me he's pretty steamed and he was ready to make some money and that doesn't bother me at all...but it seems obvious to me.

I don't give a rat's a** that he backed out of the deal...good for him. I hate to see anyone get the short end of the stick, even if it was his fault.

I like "mikey"...makes me feel like a kid again :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

T206 Titus and Bliss *cancelled*
 

I completely believe you, Todd and I feel for you on this one. When I saw the thread I clicked on it quickly to see what it was all about and noticed you had claimed them. I will tell you the truth, I never had a chance to think about what I would have done in this situation...but only had a chance to reply after everything had been done. If the op had this card for $200 it would not have been a big deal to me, but for pennies, it made sense to let him know about it...nothing personal.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I sympathize with both the seller and the buyer, but I think the OP does deserve a mulligan as long as it never happens again. One thing I really like about this message board is that it is largely not as cutthroat as the hobby can be.

I would probably feel differently if the card would have been offered at 75 percent of its value or half its value. WRT the "honor" of the deal, wouldn't "honor" also come into play when buying a card for barely 10 percent of its value because the seller did not know what he had? I don't know either the buyer or the seller, but 10-15 percent of the card's value just feels wrong to me.

Not a lot of bliss in this thread. By the way what happened with the Bliss card?

Frank...when I saw your name I thought a song or poem was imminent...I must say I'm quite...disappointed!!!

I feel for the seller. I wouldn't want to undersell something by $350.

Is the Titus still available for $60?

I really hope you aren't being serious, Bobby.

:-p

;)

I fully agree.

Hope Loiueman sticks around and isn't totally put off my drama, just or not (They're just cards!!!!!). He seems like a nice guy that made an honest mistake... Plus selfishly, I'd love to see more active members in my immediate area.

I sure hope the "Price Patrol" is working on a Friday......making sure there are no bargains for any potential buyers.

I feel that a large part of this forum is to educate collectors. I was glad to see someone step in and point out that this guy had seriously undervalued his Titus card. We have a new poster listing what he believes are two ordinary commons and not realizing that Titus has been carrying a premium (for reasons often contemplated on this board).

Many of us know about the various ways to check sales histories but this guy has been here a month. He probably has no idea what cardtarget or VCP means. I feel like not letting him know this information in this particular instance would be taking advantage of him.

I'm not pointing out who is right and who is wrong in this particular situation. I just hate to see people bashing a guy over a lack of knowledge. He's just started here and already some are trying to run him off.

This is my opinion.

I agree. I like this place because for the most part, we look out for each other and do small favors for one another. Most people are courteous and don't take advantage of the lax rules on the b/s/t and each other. This forum is a much better place than the entire marketplace of our hobby. I know there are plenty of cold, calculated business decisions made in the hobby. I just like it better when they happen on ebay or somewhere other than our forum.
This is more of a general commentary than a reaction to this thread. I'm not bashing Todd. I have had plenty of good dealings with him, and he contributes a lot to the forum.

I'm willing to end the conversation from my end if the OP can prove he didn't sell it to someone else off-line. Most of you think he still has it, I don't. Let's see a photo of the card from the OP with today's or tomorrow's newspaper.

I think that the forum is the place for education, the B/S/T section is the place for commerce. Actually at the top of the section it says "Net54baseball Buy/Sell/Trade Section (must login, caveat emptor)" which means, loosely, let the buyer beware. I would assume that would extend to the seller as well, but apparently a fair number of people would disagree.

Had the OP come on to the forum and asked for information about the Titus, I would have been happy to have chimed in.

It's not a crime if he did sell it. Maybe it would reflect poorly on his baseball card chat room etiquette (which probably has little/nothing to with most peoples' real life issues) and if so, so be it. I personally trust he still has it, and also believe he's under no obligation to further prove he has it.

'Nuff Ced!!

That's the problem with today's world. I screw you, no problem, my mommy says I'm great.
What happened to civility?
Someone told me that I should get more money and someone actually offered me more money and I accepted it. No problem . I deserve it.

Let's see a photo.

It's OK to reneg and then sell it off-line? Bull

The Titus T-206 spike has been over the last couple years. Instead of listing what the OP thought was a market value, I guess the OP should have gone the eBay museum route and listed the card for an astronomical, over the moon BIN price and just slowly lowered the price until he had a bite.

Paying 10-15 percent of market value without divulging to the OP what he had just seems like taking advantage of someone, IMO.