When an Ebay seller backs out...
 

I've had this happen twice in the last month where the seller didn't like the price and automatically refunded my money.

It just happened to me tonight where I bought something for a few hundred dollars that happened to be worth a few thousand dollars. Someone had then told the seller what value the item was after the auction ended and he then refunded my money and 10 minutes later, relisted the item.

I'm guessing I'm SOL on that, right? There really isn't anything that I can do except complain to Ebay which would result in...well, nothing, correct?

...

Report the seller. That's just terrible. The seller entered into a legally binding contract with you. I'm sure one of our attorneys can answer this definitively, but I would think this amounts to breach of contract.

Now, will Ebay do anything about this? It's doubtful. But you should try nonetheless.

Where's he reside at?
Joey bagadonuts & da boys could use a road trip...
We'll let ya know when the jobs done & where ta deposit
the clams.

I concur with "the stache"...
 

.
... you should report the seller. Perhaps even consider suggestion of legal action, especially if buyer & seller reside in different states. Then becomes a federal interstate issue I believe. My very limited general business law knowledge also leads me to believe that consideration was tendered, so that the seller did entered into a legally binding contract with you. But refusal/refunding of that payment might negate the consideration accepted portion of the conract. I also have to believe that eBay has insulated itself (and possibly the seller) with provisions somewhere in all the fine print to the user/member agreement terms that we all agreed to, inorder to use eBay services and products. Just my two cents worth . . .

Yes, report them as a non-performing seller. The one I had that did that claimed through Ebays messge system that they had sold the cards on Friday but "didn't have the time to remove them" Before it ended Monday.

They did offer a discount on their other stuff which was all crap. Framed but uncerted autographs and a few modern cards.

They got banned, although not a hard ban since their other stuff was allowed to finish. And of course, they probably rejoined with a new name.

Steve B

And my tiny bit of understanding of law tells me a lot of what you said is correct BUT at the end of the day no way would this be worth the trouble to sue. I would probably disagree with the refund negating the contract unless it was a mutually agreeable refund. I do think it's a legally binding contract but in 15 yrs on ebay I am not sure I have heard of anyone pursue a matter like this (I am sure it's been done but rarely) in the courts. I would report him to ebay and move on.

Thank you all. I suppose the few thousand dollars difference from what I paid to what the item is actually valued at is probably not worth the hassle. But it sure pisses me off!

But I will say, I've noticed this trend quite often. 2 in the last month and probably 5 in the last yr for me. EBay makes it so easy that if the seller doesn't get what they want, they refund it, get a negative feedback and move on. It's stupid.

Then the seller consigns it, and shills it up

Not worth the aggravation. Just chalk it up to yet another unethical ebay seller and move on.

Please 'out' the seller; without that info we cannot boycott him, and that is probably the best weapon we have with eBay.

Do we devote a thread to it?

I'm not sure if it matter because at the right price, it seems people dont care who they do business with

I think that's the problem -- the right price will result in a voided auction.

Completely agree. If someone wants an item bad enough, they'll pay for it regardless of how many people the seller screws. Just ask that probstein character.

As for last nights issue, I threw the word "attorney" and a few other words I didn't know the meaning of and he decided to honor the original auction. Now, if I get an empty package, we will have problems.

Thank you all. I was just curious to know if there was anything one could do if the seller wasnt cooperating. I was getting tired of this happening once every 2 months. Long story short, nothing can be done and move on, or threaten them :-)

I think you did exactly the right thing in these circumstances. I have heard of cases where the $$$ involved was enough that it made sense to take legal action (against the seller, not against eBay who, as was alluded to earlier, are well-insulated against this sort of thing). In some cases, such as this one, just the threat of legal action is enough to bring the seller to their senses. In others, perhaps a letter from your attorney would have done the job. In any case, you're left to pursue the matter yourself, as eBay will never FORCE a seller to hand over something they've sold. They won't allow the seller to keep the item AND your money, but as far as eBay is concerned, refunding your money in full, closing the case, and removing/disavowing all knowledge of the original listing is the end of the matter.

I have also heard of isolated cases where the buyer informed a reluctant seller that they would be there shortly to pick the item up in person, and then got on a plane and did so. Obviously the $$$ involved would have to be enough to make sense in those circumstances as well, but you'd be surprised how much less resistance to fulfilling their end of the deal there is when the distance between parties is a couple of feet rather than a couple thousand miles.

I might also add that there are circumstances such as was described in one of the other replies where an item legitimately sells through another channel and was not removed from eBay before it sold there as well (whether due to forgetfulness or bad timing). I've done it myself on multiple occasions, or mistakenly re-listed something that sold previously. :o That clearly isn't the case here, or else he wouldn't have re-listed it a few minutes later, but just wanted to throw that in there for anyone else who may be reading this thread to say that sometimes mistakes do happen.

Recently happen to me where I won an item. The seller stated it was shipped and it must have gotten lost. After pressuring him, I learned someone had contacted him, and offered 10x than I paid!

Leave a negative honest feedback that is not inflamatory and move on. Not worth the effort to sue.

eBay shows us that many people don't understand the Business 101 concept of repeat customers.

Ebay will do absolutely nothing about it. ALL they care about is money. I won an ernie banks rookie one time for $175 and it was a super steal, don't even ask me how it happened but I paypal'd the funds immediately. The next morning I wake up with a refund and a message stating that he could not sell it for that price and he was sorry. I spoke to ebay and hes still a seller to this day.

But, in this case, ebay didnt get their fees. The auction was refunded and the seller was paid via PP gift. There must be some course of action

+1, big time....

eBay should care about it, since the seller voided the auction price and either sold it higher off of eBay
or didn't sell it all & either way eBay is out their fees & that they do care about.

I was wondering if ebay has a way to track messages after the fact. That way we could tell ebay about the auction/seller in question, and they could see the sellers correspondence

Plenty of courses. Just not any that are easy, cheap, AND result in you getting the item at the bid price.

I want to know what kind of seller is selling $1,000+ items for only a couple hundred bucks! Sign me up!!

Yes, ebay personnel can see anything you send in a message. They don't necessarily read every message, but do routinely go back and read correspondence when disputes arise. Having access to this back-and-forth communication is one reason they block email addresses from being included in your messages. They don't want you having buyer/seller communication that they are not privy to. The other (bigger) reason is they don't want you arranging deals outside of ebay where they don't get a cut.

Well guys, the seller refunded my money again. He said that someone sent him a message about this website and this thread.

So it got me thinking-- I never mentioned on here what item it was, nor my ebay username. So how would someone know, right?

Hmmmmmmmmmm.....I wonder who it could've been....

That person, who obviously is a net54ember, contacted this seller and told him that he should get more for the item and sent him this forum page.

Talk about being bitter because you didn't get the item and decided to jump in the middle and tell the seller the price was too low of a price. Sorry, but that's a real douchebag right there.

FWIW, you don't have to "follow" someone on eBay to look at what they have bought. You do have to know their eBay ID, but that could be anybody you have ever dealt with on eBay before if they have a good memory and/or save their e-mails, not necessarily the 1 guy who officially "follows" you on eBay. Either way though, I agree that it's a pretty douchey thing to do.

Disclaimer: I have no idea what item we're talking about here or what Nate's eBay ID is. (I also have a terrible memory, so unless we do business on a weekly basis, your secret is probably safe even if we've transacted before).

I have no idea what the item is either. I still want to know what Ebay seller is selling $1000+ items for pennies on the dollar!! I have a huge student loan I need to pay off, and that would help greatly!:D

Sorry to hear that. The really sad part is the douchebag probably did it to buy the card out from under you. I had a fellow member do the same thing to me before.

It wasn't a card, which proves my point to the douche that did it. He knows who he is.

FUNNY!!! Mine was a board member as well... But I found out who it was. Actually he admitted it

This is a strange place.

Lot of things just don't make sense in this thread

• Bought an item for only a few hundred, but worth thousands
• Somehow a board member knows your eBay username and exactly what you bought
• You won't out the eBay seller

Sorry, but things just aren't adding up.

See post directly above yours

Suppose his ebay ID is the same as his ID here? This isn't rocket science. It appears the item in question was relisted at 4x the purchase price.

Last year I sold some fairly expensive cards to an ebayer who turned out to be a forum member. My ebay store basically mirrors my web-store, except items are, on average, 10-15% higher on ebay due to the additional costs. This isn't always the case, but it is on average.

Here's the unanticipated result: a forum member contacted the buyer and told him that he could have gotten them cheaper in my store, so the buyer then contacted me and wanted reparation.

I'm always amazed at the creative ways that forum members can find to stir up shit between other members. Fortunately it's only a few - there are thousands of members here and while we hear about every single douchebag, we only hear about a small percentage of what the other guys are doing in positive ways for the hobby.

So, Nate - forget about the guy keep having fun.

What becomes an interesting long discussion thread is when (not necessarily this case) a buyer comes on Net54 to complain about a seller and the seller is actually also a Net54 member, who responds here on the forum.

Makes sense, but how would anyone know exactly what he bought?

Yes it is, but I never mentioned what the item was. The person who reached out to the seller either took the time to look up my eBay username, or just checked the completed listings to find the item, which I think was the case because it popped up on the completed listing list around the same time the schmuck contacted the seller. Hmmm....:rolleyes:

Anyways, I'm not getting the item thanks to this schmuck who was upset they didnt get the item for themselves and decided to contact the seller. It is what it is.

He knows who he is....

Completed items.

Just type his ebay ID in under "find items by bidder", and email away!

Let them do all the hunting for you, swipe in at the end and collect the game

I didn't know you could search completed items by bidder, only by seller.


I don't see that option. I see the option to find items by seller, but not by bidder.

You can if you saved the old link before they omitted that option.

It's still there. Ebay just made it harder to find.

When you go to the "Advanced Search", click on the "By Seller" tab. That will take you to a page with the "By Bidder" tab available in the left hand menu.

They buried it a bit, but it's still there.

There are still deals out there. Mostly in mislisted items, or things where there's a common item and a tougher one with a small difference between them.

Last year or earlier this year I picked up a stamp that catalogs 2500 for 18 as a BIN :D
18 was a good price for the basic stamp, and the difference while catalog listed isn't shown in a picture. So knowing you have it isn't exactly simple.
Sort of like finding a Murr'y as a BIN at a decent price for a common.
Another was listed by a seller in Norway and ended at 8am est easter sunday. Not a common one, and listed at just under 10% of the catalog value. I was the only bidder.

With stamps some of the varieties are not well known and many sellers won't take the time to become knowledgeable about them- Even some of the bigger dealers. Although one I met said he didn't have the time to be bothered with small varieties that catalog under 1000 unless it was plainly marked in the collection it came from. (He often has stuff that's 5000+)

Steve B

2 things. If you sue in a dispute where something is physically stolen (not the case here) you only get what you paid for the item, and not what it would be worth now, what is its market value or what you would have gotten if you resold. The judge would look only at your receipt from when you bought it and have no interest in theoretical market valuations or how much (according to the plaintiff) it's gone up in value since then.

2, you're out no money. Considering the first paragraph, you'd have to convince the judge that you've been harmed. He (or she) may very well say you get the item in exchange for the price paid if you want because the sale was a contract, but he may, having little to no interest in theoretical resale speculations and market valuations, say you're out no money so he doesn't see the harm. You'd have to convince him. Realize that most people come before the judge in such suits are suing because they paid money, didn't get the item and want their money back. You'd be coming before him with having gotten your money back. You may indeed get the item (in re-exchange for the win price), but, if you didn't, you would not win any of paragraph 1's pie in the sky money.

When a good is unique specific performance may be available. I agree a court would not likely award damages on an expectancy measure here.

If the reneged item was subsequently sold to another party, or through another venue such as a major auction house, would that not give a clear measure of the damages to the shafted buyer?

Duly note that my working scenario is the case would be in small clams court, with a judge scheduling 10 minutes per case and the item in dispute being a baseball card or such that won't particularly stand out to a non-collecting judge as something of more significance than the stolen lawn chair set or the missing carburetor in the day's previous cases. I'm not envisioning the case involving the stolen relic of the Babylon and teams of lawyers and professorial expert witnesses.

If it turns out the eBay auction was for the Hope Diamond or the newly uncovered second set of Anne Frank's diaries, I will revisit my earlier post.

Nice

As a seasoned collector said to an angry newbie, "You have a valid legal point, but the FBI isn't going to open a case over your stolen 1980 Topps set."

Technically not true on either point. If you sue for something that it stolen from you, you are entitled to the value of the property at the time of conversion/theft, not what you paid for it. Punitive damages might also be recoverable.

As for the latter, you would be entitled to benefit of the bargain damages, meaning if you could show that the item cost you $x to replace and x was greater than what you would have paid here, the difference is your damage--so long as your replacement reflected some reasonable market value and was an arm's length transaction.

Here in AZ, a small-claim court (or even claims under $10K) would be heard by a justice of the peace, who does not even have to be a lawyer much less a a judge. So you might just get a cup of coffee and a round of applause.

Oh is he now? According to the seller, he said someone messaged him. I'm only going off what the seller told me here..

This bullsh!t happened to me last night, I'm so pissed!! Seller said, the item was sold a few weeks ago... What a liar! I did a search, nothing. I asked for the item number, no response... Whatever!

Al

I'm sure it's easy for you to deduce who it might be that felt like running a cock block move, huh? Anyone you've had a tiff with that wants to get back at you. If you're talking about a game used bat, it's a small industry, for the most part....

As Tony Soprano said, "Revenge is a dish best served with cold cuts"

Let me know when the poster wins the court case for lost profits. Chatboard legal arguments do not a court ordered bank check make, especially when in the real world a federal case starts with finding out how much a lawyer costs.

In the real world the best thing to do is, if founded in fact, to publicize the offending sellers and tamperers so future buyers are aware of their level of hobby ethics.

Of course, collectors will still deal with these people when they have the goods, but that's a major problem with this hobby. Personally, I'm lazy and won't spend the time and effort bidding in an auction where I know the seller may back out. There are better things I can do with my time, such as watching Gilligan's Island or playing Yahtzee.

If you click 'Find a member', the resulting screen then adds 'by bidder' under the 'Items' search area. I guess ebay missed that.

I was just messing around trying to find what Albert lost out on last night, but only found a couple of $10 boxing cards that ended back on May 27. I guess one of those deals went sideways - sorry to hear that, Albert.

Was a different ebay user name.. Thanks for looking. This is becoming a new fad with sellers. :(

Albert

Frankly, I would just neg the seller, put 1's in the DSR's and move on. This happens all of the time with nonpayment from ebay buyers, so I consider this the same thing. I don't think anyone threatens ebay buyers who don't pay with lawsuits.

can you even neg the seller?????

Why not? I think you can. In fact, the seller has to open an ebay case to cancel the transaction after the refund, and the buyer has to agree to the cancel transaction. Otherwise ebay will still charge the seller the full final value fee even though the buyer has been refunded.

This is problematic when trying to find items that just ended as ebay now hides completed listings from search results for 24 hours after the item ends, and I think this applies when searching users' buying histories as well. If you have the item saved in your watch list or know the item number, you can still pull it up, but it won't turn up in search results for 24 hours, even if you type in the exact title.

This way you can tell if a board member contacted the seller within that window... wmoments after you started a thread about the good deal you just got (had)

At the time I started the thread, the seller had already given me a refund. The whole purpose of the thread was to see if there was anything that could be done about a seller backing out.

In the meantime, some punk reached out to the seller and told him he sold the item for too little.

It's all fine. I don't care about the bat now for multiple reasons, and the person who contacted the seller is clearly clueless. I really just care about the person who contacted the seller, that's all at this point. That was such a crummy thing to do.

I really just care about the person who contacted the seller, that's all at this point. That was such a crummy thing to do.


I couldnt agree more. I "lost" 3500.00 because...like an idiot I outed my winnings before they were in hand

Never again

I'll play the legal claim game. My vote is going after the third party for intentional interference with a contract.

That was a d-bag move on the outer's part.

I am still confused by this thread. You said in the first post that seller was told by someone that the item was undervalued and the seller backed out of the sale and refunded the money. Later you said the seller had a change of heart and was going to honor the sale. Then you said he backed out again because someone from this site emailed him to tell him what the item was really worth. But he already knew it was worth more from your original post? So why the outrage about the role of an anonymous person possibly from this site. After all you discussed it in an open forum, how could you not reasonably expect it to get back to the seller? I get being upset at the seller but clearly there is something I missed or something unsaid in all of this because I don't get the outrage about the anonymous emailer.

How would you feel after you buy something on eBay, then a jealous low life loser emails the seller and interferes with your purchase. Which in the end means you don't get the item.

I understand that. But he said in the original post that the seller was aware that the item was worth more because someone told him separately. So the seller was already aware.

In summary

What I find funny is, the person who informs these sellers that these items are going way to cheap(I'm guessing this is the same forum member who screwed another forum member on a $$$ item and also tried messing up a deal of mine). They think they're doing the right thing in telling them that the price is too cheap. Yet they feel the need to hide. If you feel that it's the right thing to do, then you shouldn't be scared to tell us that it's you.

InsTead they had to have a auction house call me and threaten to ban me from GUU if I mentioned their name online(referring to early deals they interfered with!).

But he then told the seller that he'd go legal action. So I'm guessing it scared the seller back into doing the deal. But then the person showed him this thread and the seller probably realized that there's nothing the buyer could really do and was bluffing legal action.

I can see how that is a little confusing. When he refunded me the first time, he told me he needed to refund my money because he found out that it's worth more than what it sold for. My initial thought was that someone had messaged him. So at that point, that was when I made the thread to see what type of steps I could make to try and get the bat. Then he messages me and said that he's had a change of heart and if I still want it I can have it for the original price. So I went ahead and paid for it, again.

Then last night he messages me that someone had contacted him about this thread and refunds my money, end of story.

It's really ok. Come to find out the bat had a few issues and even though I got it at a nice price, it wasn't a steal by any means like I thought in the beginning. That's why I can live without it. Like I said, I'm more annoyed at the person who messaged the seller. I'm ready to move on, I was just on fire for a few days, and rightfully so in my opinion.

I got bigger fish to fry :-)

Got it. Makes more sense now. Seems unfortunate on the whole.

I am shocked that this do-gooder has not yet revealed himself. :rolleyes:

I kind of remember a thread not very long ago involving a rare back t206... Where the majority of net 54 members seemed to think it was fine for the seller to renege as their buy it now price was too low... How is this any different?