SGC Response concerning new labels
 

This is from Sean Skeffington at SGC.

Thu 5/22/2014 3:49 PM

Hi Guys,

I have read the feedback concerning the recent changes at SGC, specifically the new label design. There were several factors that went in to the decision to change the label. Most of the factors were internal and tied to the fact that our old computer system could no longer be technically supported and there was no flexibility or control as to what information we could put on the label. As we decided to make a change to our computer system, a change to a new label was inevitable. It should be noted that the old label was not immune to criticism. If you look at your collection of SGC cards you will probably notice that the way in which the text appears on the label is inconsistent with important information often drifting into the lower green border. The old label was far from perfect or ideal, in many respects.

With that said, in the planning and designing of the new label we were quite mindful that some collectors are not comfortable with change of any kind. However there are times when change is necessary. Internally we needed a label
that could contain more information (we now have 4 lines of text area, instead of 3 lines). Having 4 lines of available space is necessary for our business going forward. Having a colored border would have made this difficult and cluttered.

In no way do we want to minimize the concerns of our customers, but after 15 years, any change would have prompted some criticism. We made the change with the best of intentions in mind and for a label that we feel is clean, versatile, consistent and provides another level of security.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Sean Skeffington
SGC




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Sean manned up. I like.

Thanks for reply but as others have shown--the new line of info would not preclude the green border and the heading in general. Simply claiming some people never like change and the old flip had its critics is weak and does not explain why full re-design was needed or desired, or why these particular choices were made, especially since they make SGC look cheap--when one of its main draws was it looked kind of "classy." Odd move when 1) you're already #2 in the field and 2) your main advantage over #1 has been your looks and 3) there are financial reasons, in most cases, to prefer PSA.

I am curious if the flips will have any impact on resale value.

i was just browsing the site, i typically visit often.
I could not find the 'SGC forums'
and i was looking at my Registry...and it list it, but when i click on 'my registered sets'.....its says nothing.

Valid points!

I entered my email to reset my password and it says e-mail unknown. Called and they said they are still working on site. What a fiasco.

Sgc.......
 

I have not looked at the new labels yet.....and granted,. there have been some issues with their gaskets....but, I would not think of sending my precious cards/scraps anywhere else....they are a 100% class act no matter what the label "looks" like.....if it includes more information, then they have really been listening to their customers.......information is the "key"....im not trying to bash PSA or anything, but SGC ROCKS:D.....more info on the SGC flip means more knowledge/value .....info is the key(besides protection/verification).....


PSA had trouble slabbing T206 Blank Backs as "NO VOUCHER" or "FACTORY MISPRINT" "NO HOLDER" ect.....where as SGC graders know the difference of recognizing a T206 printer's scrap....and slab them accordingly.....PSA misses the mark A TON of times on T206 rarities/ misprints......as one of my friends picks up a BROWN OLD MILL(from Ebay), and it is not even differentiated on the PSA flip!:eek: and, possibly the card was busted out of a SGC holder previously and relabeled as PSA AUTH to add value???HA!! what a joke! :eek::)


PSA is clueless:confused: when it comes to the T206 rarities...and labeling them accordingly(sorry David:o)..

PSA
they just don't have the capacity to recognize/grade them appropriately.:confused::confused:...all my collector friends know where to take a true rare card....:)


SGC customer service is second to none.....of course mistakes happen ocassionally, but it's all how you handle the problem or concern, and SGC is untouchable there...I never believed in "GRADING" my cards for years, I eat and breathe T206 and know a scrap from a production card... but its almost a necessity now a days....I always look for the second opinion, and SGC has always been there for me....


I will check out the new flip/ design......as long as the cards are evaluated by those graders, they could write it in crayon for all I care.......:)

If there is no turning back with the new label (which I really hope that's not the case) at least give your loyal customers a discount on re-holdering fees---especially since there was zero heads up about this.

It trust Sean and he is a man of his Word. That I know first hand through many submissions, phone calls etc. Though it's a bit frustrating, I must concur that they have the collectors interests in mind. Just my honest opinion.

I had no problem today re-setting my password. I also did an online submission and sent in a card today. Wonder if it will come back in a new flip?

I just read the other Thread...
 

I just read the other thread......:eek:.........I do like the old"design" of the older label, but I still stand about my previous post....

as long as the pros there keep getting it right, then write mine in crayon:D....

graphics can be worked on......pure understanding takes years to develop...

respectfully,

John Vanderbeck

One can hope, but this feels like a means to implement
a new revenue stream.

Classy of SGC at the minimum to at least try to provide all
here some form of clarification, instead of just a complete ignore.

The new half-grade could arguably be a means to generate new revenue -- but don't they have to keep up with PSA on half-grades? However, creating new holders and flips to prevent fraud and to protect the cards can hardly be seen as a money grab.

1,2,3,4
 

Um, how are there any more lines of text on these new flips than were already available on the old ones once you remove the bar code?
http://photos.imageevent.com/imoverh...e91AChance.jpg
http://www.net54baseball.com/attachm...1&d=1400768971

SGC Response concerning new labels
 

Thank you to Sean for providing some feedback, only time will tell what will really happen. I am still on the fence about what I should be investing my money in and may just take a chance on the new holders. Maybe I will just buy the older labeled graded cards for now and wait and keep an eye on prices. Thought about selling more ungraded as well, with all the changes to PSA and SGC grading (half-grades, holders) - seems like there is always a few issues that collectors mention on this board.

Jimmy

I don't think I've ever seen a group of guys get so upset over color. Maybe SGC will let you choose the right flip colors to match your dresses. :D

I'm not much of a slabby, so none of this really concerns me. Tangentially, though, I have always wondered why you (SGC) has felt compelled to put the single digit PSA-comparable grade on the flip. Seems to me like you are pinning yourselves down in PSA's shadow and resigning to #2. If you took that out, then the 4th line of text is moot.

Not trying to be a "tow the line guy" but I really do like the new flips just the way they are. I think they look classy with the hologram type background. As I told Sean, I will just have my pre and post May 2014 flips. I realize there are others who ONLY want one thing but as a type collector I have never only wanted uniformity. I do understand others concerns though. But I do like the way the new ones look quite a bit. I think (my opinion only) they are actually as good looking as the older ones....or darned close to it. Also, I have been told they actually look better in hand than they do from scans. I am sending in cards soon and will be happy to have the new flips.

As an SGC slab collector, I think I'm almost more concerned about the size of the holder -- is it changed at all? Having SGC and PSA cards lined up back to back drives me crazy with the different dimensions of the slabs.

Thanks for addressing the issue Sean, but unfortunately the flips are still ugly and shouldn't have to be and it may cost SGC some business. If you're okay with it that's on you and your company.

SGC Response concerning new labels
 

Maybe SGC can provide sleeves in the future, that would help with the uniformity that some collectors are looking for, so sets can look good together and consistent. There must be product out there already that can change what a holder looks like by just adding a plastic or felt sleeve.

Jimmy

This is what the new flip will look like, assuming no change to the slab or gasket.

http://imageshack.com/a/img835/1834/zrgn.png

And what it would like with the green border.

http://imageshack.com/a/img842/5340/7x9n.png

The new flip looks infinitely better with a green border IMO. Could someone add a simple poll where you select flip a) proposed flip or flip b) same new design with green border? If not I'll do it when I get home and have access to my computer. Maybe this will illustrate the point for SGC.

I'll do one, Dan.

Edit: nm, Blackie is doing one already.

Tried to do a poll Bill but I think I jacked it up........

What does Sean do at SGC? I didn't realize he was there.

Interesting... I hope since they have more space they can add more info, specifically about the T205 backs, id like to see, ie piedmont 42 back, or hassan 30, etc. t206's im sure most here would like the same

I will add that if they did do a green border, it is immensely better. I do appreciate the response and its classy the concerns were not ignored...but as others have said, it's still really ugly. Again, the only reason for me is uniformity, so I am out. Green border, I'd be back in. There prerogative to change, mine not to support the change.

Despite the new flips, I suppose cards will still float around in their holders:confused:

They should find a way to put the label info on the side, like how some coins have text on their edge, and then the slabs could be near to card size with no black or cloudy clear field surrounding it. Then they could change the label design all they want and it wouldn't matter because no one would be seeing it anyway.

Glad I could jump on the site today and solve all the problems. You are welcome, card collecting world. You are welcome.

VP of Operations.....I believe he had taken a hiatus from the company but returned several months ago.

Just curious what did they use the bar code for in the old label?

I am not an SGC rah-rah guy but do have a couple dozen slabbed SGC cards.

The old SGC labels are aesthetically nicer in my opinion. And, if the move to the new labels is a done deal (as it seems to be), SGC should at least add the green border.

My wife and I have a fanciful German name for what SGC has done here:

WURSENCHANGE (add the double dots over the u).

The new SGC slabs are in the grand tradition of New Coke and Windows 8--they took a good thing and made it worse.

People are often hired and paid to "do something." Unfortunately, often times, they make it worse. That seems to be the case here.

Again, in my opinion.

Put me down as strongly disappointed in the new label. I've been a proponent of SGC from the early years (over a decade) and have been fine with all the small changes over time but feel this is a mistake. Consistent and fair grading aside, the slab appearance is what really sets SGC apart with the green border label and black insert/gasket being key. I'm fine with the changes if the green border returns, large enough at top to pull "SGC" into the border in white. I don't see why this couldn't be accomplished without compromising all other new desired features.

The old SGC slab was classy and I was compelled to grade my cards with SGC. My collection has a nice and consistent look to it. I guess that is about to change. I don't believe I will submit with the new label. I'm fine with raw cards, why spend the money if you don't like the appearance? My hope is that SGC listens to their customers and reconsiders this decision. I may change my mind with time, then again, maybe not.

I'm not as passionate about coins, but have actually collected them longer than I have cards. I have collected only NGC graded coins and when their holder changed several years back I stopped submitting. The plastic insert that holds the coin being the issue, not the label. I won't buy a newer NGC graded coin. The last couple coins I need will be purchased when an example surfaces in the older holder. Anyone have an 1887 3 cent or quarter in older NGC holder?:) I have the coins raw, but would like to complete the type set in old NGC holders. Example of new holder attached for comparison, I didn't like it when it was introduced and time hasn't changed my mind.

Why change when your customer base is a bunch of old curmudgeoned fanatics? A change for the worse isn't welcome (over generalization but you get the point).

Building off of Bill's example, here is my recommendation.

For me personally that is the best looking flip I have ever seen.

+1... Talking about the one a couple of posts above; not the actual new one that is objectively not very good.

Leon- agreed that the above example looks much better than the non-border version. when tweaking a design, you want to hold onto once's roots and evolve it every so slightly...like how Porsche tweaks the Carrera every year.

That looks awesome!

HA!!!! He said "Tangentially"

SGC,

Some simple business theories you my be interested in.

Test market or test group - before releasing a product, see how the product is received by a small group of consumers. Example: movie studios reshoot endings to movies based on what a test group says.

Market opportunity - when the market leader is generating revenue from a service (PSA Registry) that they do better, copy them with a better product or service. Example: Dodge was the first to produce a mini van.

WOW! Super Nice - But I do think the Ryan is a tad overgraded....Looks more like a 70 to me

yikes
 

Think I will only buy the old style...damn the new ones (really ? it matters that much)

Yesterday, all my troubles seemed so far away
Then SGC changed their flip this way
Oh, I believe in yesterday

Suddenly, my cards seem half of what they used to be
No green borders on the flips I see
Oh, yesterday came suddenly

Why the flip had to go I don't know they wouldn't say
Did I say something wrong, now I long for yesterday

Yesterday, TPG was such an easy game to play
I liked S G C, not P S A
Oh, I believe in yesterday

Why the flip had to change I don't know they wouldn't say
Did I say something wrong, now I long for yesterday

Yesterday, TPG was such an easy game to play
I liked S G C, not P S A
Oh, I believe in yesterday
Mm mm mm mm mm mm mm


Back in the day every record had a "flip" side. ;):D

I understand where Sean is coming from. Computers have to be upgraded and things change it just stinks. I really just think it looks a bit lower end but maybe it will grow on me

Frank, you think that you can just waltz back in here with some silly song, with all your charm and wit, after calling us a bunch of lemons.

I think not! :D:D:D

I'd defintitely vote for that tweaked version from Joe G.! Best option so far, hands down!

My point has been, and will continue to be, in terms of trying to retail with the new flip, it does not look right.

I'm more concerned about the retail aspects then the inforrmation because if the flip does not stand out, then these flips might be passed by because the appear to be similar to those of 2nd rank grading services

Rich

Can not check my submission status
 

updated.........was able to get ahold of SGC concerning the Sub...........all is Good!

As I stated way up top--it's irrelevant that SGC claims that needed to make changes because of new computer program. No one is saying they should not make any changes, just that the ones they made--which were design choices, not mandated by computer--are bad. Their claim that "some people just don't like change" is, frankly, pretty offensive when they have offered no explanation of why these particular choices were made.

Maybe they will learn. Even as big as Coca-Cola is as a Fortune 500 company, they too, learned quickly to get rid of "New Coke". Lest they wanted Pepsi to be the only game in town with the majority of the market share.

They offered a lot of explanation but you failed to listen. (see first post)

In one month people will be completely used to it, I predict.

I don't think so. Over the years SGC has made changes to their flip, but not this drastic. There were tweaks, but the green border remained. Removing the green border is removing their identity not to mention upset a lot of OCD collectors...which lets face it, is a lot.

+1. That's how I read it too--almost condescending. The fact that you need new computers, etc. is certainly understandable and probably well known to all. This is not the problem. There are at least 150 species of animals on this planet and probably some plants and minerals with more computer/techno knowledge than I and yet even I could find decent labeling software and a nice printer to address these so-called concerns. Several here have prepared mock-ups of superior labels with only hours or less of time to do so. I still have not seen an explanation as to how this label provides an extra line of text more than the last one. They removed their barcode, which is neither here nor there to me although it might be nice on the back for those with proper scanning abilities, yet their website still extolls as one of the virtues of their product the existence of this barcode. Then to basically shrug the whole thing off with the old "you can't please everybody" byline is exactly that---dismissive.

The folks on this board come from many walks of life, and several have had the opportunity to elicit sales pitches from advertisers and design folks on how to better improve the perception of their product or service. I wonder how many of us would accept this presentation and explanation as being even professional, much less something we would find attractive.

Very well stated Todd.

Leon, with respect, telling me "you failed to listen" is pretty impolite. Apparently that applies, I guess, to 4 out of 5 here. They did NOT offer any real explanation for the design choices, just the need to make some sort of changes. As others have shown, changes that reflected more of their current design, with all of the "lines" they want, could be made easily--contrary to what SGC clalms. They were free to choose any type face, keeping the green box and so forth. And the current label itself already has 4 lines of copy (and they've now deleted the bar code).

Joe,

I'd like to see your proposal implemented. Nice label!

Greg, I was only giving my opinion just as you do..and had I wanted to include others in that opinion I would have done that too. SGC gave this explanation in the first post-

"Internally we needed a label
that could contain more information (we now have 4 lines of text area, instead of 3 lines). Having 4 lines of available space is necessary for our business going forward. Having a colored border would have made this difficult and cluttered."


Whether there are work-arounds, or other solutions is besides the point of this post, and then you said this.... many posts down-

" Their claim that "some people just don't like change" is, frankly, pretty offensive when they have offered no explanation of why these particular choices were made."

So that is why I said what I did. However, I could have been more tactful so for that, I apologize. I doubt I will post in this thread anymore but will relegate myself to the others concerning the same subject.

Let me preface what I am about to say by saying that I only collect SGC graded cards. I love the look of their holder/flip. I love their grading and their customer service, etc., etc. I am a customer.

So here's the question we all want an answer to: WHY CHANGE?

I know what Sean said, but why make such a drastic change? Perhaps, perhaps they thought that if they made a dramatic change to the flip, that then collectors would send in their existing collection to be re-holdered so their existing collection would have uniformity going forward?

Just a thought, but maybe it is more about creating a new revenue stream?

I know most of us will say that they would never send in their existing cards for re-holdering, but as we have already seen, continuity is a very important issue to collectors.

Just a thought....

Wow. All this because a company changed it's flip design? OCD really does go hand in hand with card collecting.

The slabs the cards are in are just as important as say, 1993 Sport Kings (or whatever particular set you are working on). Together, the cards and the holders compliment each other. And let's say you are not finished. Do you really want to have half the set in different looking holders? As silly as you think this dilema is, this is a very real problem for card collectors.

Pish.

SGC gets a big fat "F" for failing on branding and marketing. If they had a thoughtful approach as to how this would roll out to collectors, why they were making the change, and being proactive in communicating before the new flips were ready, collectors would not be responding like they have.

It's interesting (to me) that Leon is essentially being the spokesperson for SGC on many of these changes. SGC has the love of the pre-war collecting crowd. It would not have taken much to roll out these changes in an engaging way. The "surprise" factor on the announcement, along with the general lack of communication is what has largely pissed off this group of collectors, in my opinion.

m

Sgc holder
 

Hate the New SGC Holder . Love the New Version of "Yesterday".

JP

Maybe they should have made a contest for the flip design. They could have set requirements, i.e it must have 4 lines, include SGC, etc. and had folks submit designs. Then take the top 3 designs and let people vote on their website. Winning design gets 10 free grades.

For the most part I agree on your take on SGC. but not Leon.
Leon is doing his best to represent the N54 crowd & his engagement in discussions with SGC may be a win win for members here & SGC .
if the poll here resembles other non N54 SGC's customers SGC would be making an error in their business model with a change most loyal customers don't like.
My fingers are crossed Leon's efforts on our behalf pay off.
I wish my emails to SGC received a response

Jeez, the last time little lines were in such high demand was 1978 at Studio 54, and i don't mean the lines at the door. ;)

lol :)

Target has wrapped up internal studies and has determined that their target logo and color red is not necessary to convey the name of their store. It does nothing for their products or services, and it does not lower prices. It was an internal decision and they saw no need for a test market study. Joe G. had some good compromise ideas but Target just failed to listen. Target righteously determined you cant please everybody. The change will be implemented immediately.

Walmart loves their competitors’ choice and is keeping their blue branding. Starbuck’s is keeping their green.

Color matters.
Branding matters.
Customers matter.
Change is good.
Bad change is bad.

I'll repeat what I have said on this thread on several occassions.

Looking at the new flip without the green border struck me as a bad flip for retail situations such as shows and stores. The proposed flip from SGC, on the first appearance looked (to me) as it belonged to a 2nd tier grading company (I used Pro and MGS, you can pick one of more than 100 for your choice)

The proposed green border would really help the card stand out in a competitive situation such as a show floor and help SGC keep it's idenity.

And I read the SGC statement as we had to make this change so we made this change and you alll can deal with it.

Rich

Yes - Pretty much stating the obvious there - OCD & Collecting should not require any type of excuse or explanation.

I would think , tho, that we would get more mileage if everyone would simply email Earl over at SGC. I have never known SGC to NOT listen to their customer base. I do like everything about the new flip - except for the sans Green Border. The very 1st photoshop design which incorporated the green border with the new flip looked absolutely fabulous to me and kept the SGC "look" intact. I would think this could easily be implemented on the SGC side.

Bobby, As much as I respect your opinion this isn't a problem for card collectors. Seems to me it's a problem for flip collectors. I've been on this board 10 years and this thread is a close 2nd to the New York dinner thread in "does it really matter in the big picture?" points. Sorry, I don't see the big deal.

When you pay money for something you want to like the way it looks, and that applies to slabs/flips too. In my opinion

I guess equate it to what would Jefferson Burdick do when we went to the New York museum of art and started cataloging his cards. Did he just randomly put them in books, or did he make sure everything was cataloged nice and neat? If you don't understand a card collector's wish to keep everything nice and orderly, then you don't understand all the full nuances of card collecting. And yes, there are different levels of card collecting. You can just buy cards and throw them in a shoebox and call yourself card collecting. You can also only buy PSA 8's and ignore anything high and anything lower. That is collecing too. But to dismiss the fact that a collector would want his labels to match is kinda short sighted on your part.

Not too long ago there was a vocal contingent on the board who were adamant about cracking their cards out of the slabs so they could feel their cards. After this discussion methinks perhaps they just wanted to have their flips bronzed.;)

Leon, I think we really need a moat.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but you do acknowledge you're in the minority though right?

If I'm in the minority, I am in good company with some of the greatest collectors in the game. :p

On a serious note, the only nuance I have is wanting all my cards in a set to match. I don't want to have them in all different slabs. I want them to all be graded by one company, and I want the "flip" to match. That's it. Like someone stated earlier, maybe SGC is hoping to get rush of collectors wanting to get stuff in the new label. I can promise, I am not the only collector who feels this way.

I agree with you, my comment about being in the minority was to 2dueces.