My Kreindler project
 

As you may imagine I'm still in shock. This is by far the best item I've ever won. Over the past few days I've been scouring the web for possible subjects. I'm not a photo collector so I really didn't have any potential candidates in my collection. While I've come up with a few, I realized I'm ignoring what is likely the best resource out there, you guys. So here it goes...As someone already guessed, I'm a Milwaukee baseball fan so if you you've got any ideas for subjects you wouldn't mind sharing I'd love to see them.

Attached below are the potential candidates I've found out there. Feel free to critique them as well.

Hank Aaron on one knee or Hank jumping against the fence....you can't go wrong with either of those IMO.

Cant go wrong with that first Aaron

Were you buying a bigger size. Cause I think the size of the raffle is big enough for a portrait, I remember them saying something about this.

Congrats on the win. Color me very jealous. No doubt you will enjoy this item forever.
My personal bias is for Graig to create his paintings from B+W images. I feel like he really gets to bring the image to life by starting with a more blank canvas.

My favorite of the ones you posted, BY FAR, is the Aaron jumping at the fence. It is a spectacular image that would make an incredible painting, but probably not at 16x20. Unfortunately, I think it would need to be bigger to really get the full impact and majesty of that shot. From talking with Graig, it's my understanding that he feels 16x20 size is most appropriate for portrait type images. Even the one kneeling would probably look a bit better with a slightly vertically longer canvas to keep the full effect.
You might consider talking with Graig about different sizes and how much extra they would cost. I'm not sure if the extra cost is doable for you, but knowing whether what size is your absolute limit will help you decide on the best photo.

I would speak to Graig now about your ideas. He is full of ...great ides(bet you thought I was going to say something else :D) and can help guide you through the process.

The good news is that no matter what you choose, you will love it.When I got mine, I posted this thread.
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...=kreindleritis

This. Mr Aaron is a great subject. I tend to like action shots with old ballparks in the background. Aaron playing defense is not something we think of often, it's a unique subject matter. The fence has wonderful texture too.

I thought of that as I was posting them this morning. I kind of figured that would eliminate the Aaron jumping photo, but based on my brief correspondence with Graig, I think the Aaron on knee photo would work. Plus it has Milwaukee County Stadium in the backdrop.

My 2 cents, I think the Aaron on his knee would work great for this project.

If you decide to go for a portrait, you might consider a painting of his 1958 Topps card. The bright green background, I should think, would be quite striking. Plus, you get Braves logo, etc., not to mention his name for viewing guests who don't know baseball.

Effe,
I am so glad you are sharing this process with everyone, as for many of us, it is a learning experience of what we can and cannot get done. (size matters).
Future winners will have a better idea of the whole process, from this point to completion.
Congratulations again, and, I like Aaron kneeling also.

Bill

Maybe with this we can lure you to the photographic side.

That's pretty funny... the Aaron kneeling and the shot of him jumping at the fence were my two favorites as well. :)

While the jumping shot wouldn't work in this size, as mentioned, I'd also go with the Aaron kneeling. I'd imagine Graig would have a blast with it, too, as he'd have the stadium to "play" with in the background, and he'd have the added challenge capturing the sunlight from the photo.

I love the two Aaron choices too. You can't go wrong if you choose the knee shot or upsize and go for the fence image. I would have gone with Hank too. I feel that being 3 fans away in the attendance count and you picking Aaron, that I have won (sort of)! Now if I could just convince you to let me borrow the painting on weekends! :)

I too am very happy for your good fortune and a bit jealous. I think Hank Aaron is a great choice and the shot of him leaping against the fence has long been one of my favorites. However, if I was choosing an Aaron image I would go with something quite different. Although he isn't in uniform I find the image poignant. It was taken moments after signing with the Clowns. He was leaving Mobile and his family as a scared teen not knowing what the future held. For me there is a lot of emotion in photo and it represents one of biggest moments in baseball history. How could anyone imagine that the frightened young man in that photo would go on to such greatness?

aaron
 

great photo, mike. I taught Aaron's daughter around '80-'81 and love to see the personal side of his life in the photos and paintings.
and congrats John on being the lucky winner.

best,
barry

I have the honor of having one of Graig's paintings in my home office. Based on my experience, I would advise you to ask Graig for his opinion on size and subject matter early on in the process. If you tell him you'd like a Hank Aaron, he may have dozens of images of him that he can show you.

I'm considering having him do a second painting for me and he has shown me many images of the subject that I didn't even know existed.

During your discussion with him, ask him what size a particular image would need to be in order to do it justice. Just my $0.02, but I think it is better to have his involvement in all stages. He is an amazing artist and his process starts well before the brush hits the canvas.

Here are a couple of Aaron options I didn't see posted above.

T. Scott,
I LOVE that top photo of Aaron. Absolutely terrific!

Agreed... the top one posted by Scott would be my pick on what I have seen here and would most likely fit the parameters without issue.

I also like the top one (2 posts above). The first shot in your OP is fantastic, but it's already a color photo. I think black and white shots work best to start with, and then have Graig work his magic.

Belated congratulations on your winning this fantastic prize.

Though I'm a "YankeeFan", Henry Aaron was actually my favorite player growing up in the late 1960's - 1970's. I was rooting for him as he chased the Babe
and felt so bad for all of the grief he endured because of it. My Dad would take me to Shea Stadium whenever the Braves were in town.

Lots of great Aaron photos here. Both pics of him kneeling (your first one and the one with him wearing #5) are great.
Then again, in that press photo shown by Tnfoto, I love the way his face looks with the light shining on him.

The best thing is that between the artist and the subject, no matter what you choose, the end result will be a winner!

Aaron jumping against the fence, without a doubt

1st photo - head and chest. Right in Greg's zone

not Aaron but...
 

This has always been one of my favorite Milwaukee baseball related images and seems like it would work given the size. Sorry for the link..http://www.nytstore.com/Warren-Spahn--1956_p_5436.html

Wow. Some great photos.
I really like the Aaron T Scott posted. I very much prefer it over the similar color one in the first post.

Jeremy, you really stepped up with that Spahn. Incredible composition and would definitely fit the size requirements.

I am torn. I think if he can go a little bigger, I would definitely do the Aaron jumping in the outfield. If he is going to hold to the 16x20 size, I would flip a coin to choose between T Scott's Aaron and Jeremy's Spahn.

John good luck in your pursuit of the ideal Braves image for Graig to paint. Though I am partial to the Tigers , I had saved these two Braves photos and would have given them serious consideration if I had been fortunate enough to win the raffle.

...and this photo of Eddie Mathews.

+1

Graig probably has more killer images in his "some day" dreamer folder than he has lifetime left to paint them in. If you've got some idea of the direction you'd like to go (team, player, era, etc), it's well worth your time to see what he's got already.

Another Mathews worth considering:
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...3/X00886_1.jpg

This is the one he's referring to (and would get my top vote of those presented thus far):
http://www.nytstore.com/assets/image...P1515_EXTR.jpg

Id go with the first aaron but any aaron would be awesome

I'm guessing that you will not be picking the only known image of Willie Mays Aaron.:eek:

So how about it, John, any updates on the decision-making process?

John
I agree, the suspense is killing me. Have you at least narrowed the field down to a few.


Bill

I love 'Aaron Leaping'. If Graig thinks it would lose too much Aaron detail in a smaller painting, maybe something like this?

That would be an awesome painting.



Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

RunScott,

Wow, my new favorite.

What happened to effe? If he is too busy or can't decide, maybe there should be a new winner :D

John told me he is a card guy.

Rumor is now, after looking at all these photos, he is selling his card collection to buy photos..........LOL

He won't be the first.

Hi guys, I've been exchanging emails and photos with Graig pretty regularly. I have one a nice Aaron in mind that Graig is currently looking into. I'd rather hold off posting that one until I get his go ahead. The Peskin image I posted earlier and the early wire photo tnfoto posted are my runners up.

John,
You are suspenseful. But I am sure your choice will be a good one.
Can you tell us, at least, if the photo you chose, was posted on this thread?

I already had my choice if I had won. It may have taken Graig extra time to get the nuances of the eyebrows, but it would have been worth it. :D
BTW, I LOVE Scott's idea.

Scott's ideas are lovable - it's Scott who's an a-hole :p

I really want to see that 'Aaron Leaping' in Kreindler-color. I might have to learn to paint.

Hey all,

So, I wanted to update everyone on the status of this thing. I'm sorry that it's been taking a long time to get going, but there have been some issues with the image that John selected. I mean, not issues with John's choice, but issues with the image itself. Unfortunately, the nature of the whole thing is that the rights to it are owned by a third party who can be rather...um...flaky. In other words, I'm at their mercy right now.

I'm not going to post his actual choice until I'm completely sure that we can do it (I'm supposedly getting word and the scan in a few days), and even then, maybe I'll leave that part to John, as what he chose really reverberated with him. I can tell you for sure that it'll make a great painting.

In the meantime, I did purchase the necessary supplies for the piece, starting off with the stretcher bars, which I constructed below.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...psc46cc14d.jpg

When selecting a linen, I end up trying different kinds and brands, as the weight and weave will vary. I think most of the time, I end up getting one that has a medium to smooth weave, which is nice for portraiture and heavy paint. Also, when I need to sand or scrape things down, the weight of the linen can withstand a beating.

A day or two after the bars were stapled into place, the linen arrived in the mail, which I then stretched onto the frames.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...psff2f0256.jpg

When that's taken care of, a coat of matte medium (which is water-based) is applied to the stretched frame. Traditionally when working with oils, artists would apply rabbit skin glue or other substrates to act as a boundary between the paint and the linen. Reason being is that over time, if the raw linen had oil paint applied to it (whether intentionally or not), the area can start to rot. We're talking 100-200 years down the line, but the goal is to be as archival as possible without being insane. In the photo below, I did a few at once.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...psf56e95c1.jpg

After a day or so, the canvas was coated with acrylic gesso, which is that white stuff you're seeing on top. This is normally how I set these things up, though every now and again, I'll use an oil primer and not an acrylic one. Reason being is that paint reacts differently with each primer, and for the most part, the gesso surface is more along the lines of what I enjoy working with. Generally speaking, the paint tends to grab the surface and sit on top of it. I find that with oil primer, the paint sinks into it and dries quicker, which is not a bad thing by any stretch, but is not really the way I like attacking the thing. Of course, they're plenty of purists who would turn their noses up at the idea of using anything other than oil primer for their surface, and their certainly welcome to those opinions. However, I just work with what I like to work with.

Anywho, two coats of gesso are applied, and sanding occurs between the both of them (first a light one, and then a heavier one). At the end, the surface ends up being pretty smooth (the severity of which depends on the weave of the linen - a wider and heavier weave won't ever be super smooth).

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...ps34b618d2.jpg

From here, the thing is ready to be drawn on. And once I get the appropriate image, I'll be able to do as such.

Hopefully this shop talk isn't too boring to anyone. I just figured that some of you might be interested in the process from that point of view. If not, I can certainly keep it less intense.

Either way, thanks for reading, and thanks again for participating!

Graig

Graig, that is COOL. Thanks for sharing.

I can't wait to get my 2nd Kreindler study, and to post the two framed results with associated autographs. I'm eyeing that Cobb, so someone better grab it quick.

I agree...very interesting.

Very cool seeing the process in detail. What some may find tedious and over-informative, others (myself included) enjoy for the abundance of information and insight that it gives into the process. I can't wait to see the whole thing laid out, so that I can just follow along step-by-step and start producing my own Kreindler knock-off paintings! ;)

I'd much rather see a step-by-step documentation of the process.

I can't stand when a cooking show throws a non-disclosed amount of ingredients into a bowl and the next thing you see is them eating a soufflé. :mad:
Or a DIY show on building a deck, jumps from pouring footings to " and then just add the stairs and railings and enjoy your new deck". :eek:

Thanks Graig, I learned alot about the procees that I had no idea of. And I like how it fills in the life story of these great paintings, awesome stuff.

Lance, I just hope that your knock-offs aren't non-Yankees - then I'll be jealous.

I'm glad you guys enjoyed that last post. I'll keep things in that spirit, and if you have any further questions that you feel like asking, don't hesitate to. Once I get to actually painting the thing, it might be a bit tougher to articulate things, but I'll certainly do my best.

Graig

Graig,
Thanks for sharing the set up process, I had no clue all that was needed. You definitely have great knowledge, not to mention your skill. Combined, you are the tops.

Thanks for sharing

Bill

I thought that was going to be in the next step: "Selection of Subject -When selecting the subject for your painting, strong consideration should be given to popular deceased players from New York. If none of the popular dead Yankees can be settled upon, any obscure player may be suitable, provided he is depicted wearing pinstripes."

Graig,
I'm digging the process steps. VERY cool!

Love seeing the process. Keep 'em coming. May not want to show too much of your secrets though cuz a bunch of us might start doing our own paintings. Can't be that hard can it....?

lol


Rob M.

Hey guys,

So, here's the deal: I'm still waiting for my contact to come through with the image that John requested. I went to LA last weekend, and was expecting it to be waiting for me when I got home. Of course, that wasn't the case, and I was told it would be here 'any day now.' It's possible that 'any day' might mean 'never' considering his track record, so I figured I'd ask you fellas in a last ditch effort to get this thing moving.

Did any of you win the below image from one of Henry Yee's auctions? It's one of the amazing Marvin Newman slides he was auctioning off, so it would have been bought in the past year (though I don't remember exactly which one, unfortunately).

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...ps1f9b4272.jpg

I really hate to be the one who let the image out of the bag, especially since I was hoping that once we had it, John could talk about why it attracted him. However, at this point, I just don't know whether I'll be able to get it any other way.

If you do have it and are willing to help out, please drop me a PM or an email (gkreindler@gmail.com). I'm happy to pay you for both your time and trouble. I just really want to get this thing as soon as I can so I can start. Also, if need be, your identity can be kept secret if that is at all a concern.

Thanks, everyone.

Graig

Graig,
I wish I could help out but unfortunately I can't. I hope the wheels loosen up a bit to get this moving because that it a beautiful shot of Hammerin' Hank in full stride.
Good luck,
Drew

Hey everyone,

I FINALLY have an update to the progress of this raffle painting.

My contact with John Rogers never came through on Newman image unfortunately, so we had to finally give up on that one and look elsewhere. John was really into the idea of the Hy Peskin shot that was in his first post of this thread, so we looked high and low for that one as well. While he didn't find the exact shot anywhere (Peskin's website doesn't even seem to offer the thing anymore), he did find one from the same shoot that was probably taken a second before or after.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...pscf6a057c.jpg

I'm going to be doing it a little larger than what we originally offered in the raffle - so, now we're at 16" x 24". The extra few inches on top with frame the image much better, in my eyes. Unfortunately that means that the 18" x 24" that I had already constructed has to be used for something else.

So right now, my hope is to buy stretcher bars for it tomorrow (as I didn't have any extra 24" ones handy), construct the supports, prime and prepare it, and then perhaps have the drawing done by Wednesday, right before the National. I'll keep posting updates here for those of you who are interested.

Graig

Great pose!
 

Couldn't have picked a better image myself. Awesome choice!

My favorite is the one with him jumping near the fence.

Same here.... by a landslide. And that could have made a killer 16" X 24" painting, by isolating as necessary on the leaping Aaron.

The Peskin pose chosen is pretty majestic as well. I like Aaron's face a bit better than the similar image (which was posted at the beginning of the thread).

John,
Great choice.

Graig,
I will be looking forward to your magic show. Keep up the great work.

Looking forward to seeing this image come to life if Kreindler-color!

Hey everyone,

Thanks for tuning back into this thread. Now that we have the image all worked out and I can actually put something down on canvas, I'll be updating it a LOT more regularly until the piece is in John's hands. And certainly, I really appreciate you all chiming in and sharing your thoughts.

First off, I definitely agree about the quality of the Aaron jumping image - it really is pretty bad@SS. I think that one would make one heck of a cool painting, especially at the 16" x 20" size (or thereabouts). However, I'm definitely loving this Peskin shot as much, too. I guess I'm just at peace with the fact that I know I'll do the other one at some point as well.

Anywho, onto the canvas at hand. The drawing is officially on the darn thing.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...ps2813f9fe.jpg

They're a few people off the boards who have asked me about the squiggly lines and what they represent, so I thought I'd address it here for those of you who may be curious. For the most part, having an underdrawing done for a painting acts as a road map for most artists, whether it's for something as simple as gesture lines, or if it's meticulous to the point of creating a full-on black and white guide that will later be glazed over with transparent color. By no means does everyone use them, and I don't want to say whether I think it's 'wrong' to do so, but for me, it works.

For me, rather than just doing an outline of things for a skeleton, I prefer to get a bit more involved. All of the those squiggles that you see are changes in value, color, and/or temperature. Sometimes those changes are subtle, sometimes they're major, but the most important thing for me is that they're there. It's kind of a way of thinking about the drawing as being sculptural moreso than a bunch of lines that I'm filling in with color. Though, I guess you could say that it still looks rather paint-by-numberish. Whoops.

Anywho, now that it's all drawn in, I can start with some color. The drawing was spray fixed with a Krylon product called Workable Fixatif, which will create a clear acrylic-based barrier between the drawing and the paint that'll go on top of it.

With that, I put a warmish oil wash over the painting to create a colored-ground to work off of. For me, the ground is meant to do two things. One, to get rid of the stark white of the canvas as soon as possible. Traditionally, when creating a ground one would usually do so with a medium value so that when colors are placed on top of it, they can observed closer to their real value. For example, on a completely white surface, a small spec of paint in a medium value would look much darker than it actually is.

The second thing the ground does for me is create certain atmospheric effects that can't be attained in any other way. Since all oil paint has a bit of translucency to it, whatever's underneath a typical stroke of mine will show through and effect it in some way. That's the sort of thing that will create richness, nuance, and a lot of headaches - all parts of the process.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...ps93018e62.jpg

After the National, I plan on jumping back into the thing and starting to put down some actual color. But man, I'm THRILLED that I have something to show before heading out to Cleveland.

I hope y'all dig my thoughts along with the progress shots, even if it can sometimes sound flowery or long-winded. Regardless, as per usual, any thoughts, comments, or critiques are ALWAYS appreciated.

Thanks for reading!

Graig

Easy if you are from Krypton and have X-ray vision. Just sayin'.

I was going to make some smart comment about that being a paint-by-number from hell, but you kind of beat me to that one :p
So I guess I'll just go back to staring at it and trying to envision it through your eyes. So far it's just giving me a headache, but if I cross my eyes just right, I swear I can almost see the 3-D image. It's a spaceship, right...? :confused:

I paint in much the same process. It's always nice to learn something ( I have never heard of or tried Workable Fixatif to seal the pencil lead so it doesn't show or smear with the oil/medium. I have used hair spray before, or very light varnish.

I will check it out.

Love your work. John

Who knew Hank had all those tatts?:eek:

Graig,

It's already a beauty to me, to finally see it.

Hey all,

Thanks for all of the kind words and support throughout this project.

So, I'm back from the National, and that means back to the easel. I've been working on this all day, so here's the progress thus far:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...psfe83d882.jpg

In this first underpainting/dead color stage, my main concern is to get basic value relationships and colors down onto the surface. In a way, it continues with the idea of the drawing in that it acts as a skeletal system for the finished painting. With these initial strokes, it gives me a good chance to just cover the canvas with a block-in, something that has the same amount of detail work throughout (which is important so the whole picture is kept in mind while working). The color ends up being a bit on the dead side because it's somewhat thinly applied, and since oils by nature are somewhat translucent, a lot of the background stuff ends up showing through the paint. It's only going to be through a few more passes that I will be able to create some interplay between the opaque areas and more transparent ones.

This will need the (at least) rest of the day to dry, and then everything else that will go on top of it will become the very meat of the painting. This initial block-in is usually a bit weird to me, but it's always the start of the second pass where I start to see things coming together.

Anywho, hope you enjoy it! And as per usual, feel free to share any comments, be they good or bad.

Graig

So cool! It looks awesome so far... :)

Thanks a lot, Scott! I hope by the end of the week, I will have made some serious headway on things.

Enjoying your posts on this, Graig. I just now realized that you were at the National. I'm really disappointed that I didn't get a chance to come see you. (Note to self: make sure you get out of the booth more next year.)

Thanks for posting your step-by-step sequencing. I'm always blown away by how low the % complete is in your words. Your 50% complete would easily register 100% complete for others. That last 50% that you put into it where you really pay attention to the influence of light is what gives your work magic, IMO.

I'm eager to watch the progress of this one.

Hey Brian,

Crapola, I didn't know you were there, either. I certainly would have made the effort to come on by and say 'hello.' Where was your booth, anyways?

Believe you me, this guy isn't even 25% done - it's got a ways to go. However, now that the first pass as dried, the paint and color that I put down is finally going to start to sing.

Here's what we got so far:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...pse6cbdf38.jpg

It's definitely on its way to something, even if it's still in its very early stages.

One of the things going on with Hank that I'm loving is working with his skin. For the most part, when African American skin starts to get a little sweaty, the sky reflects off of it so nicely, and you get these wonderful mauves, magentas and pinks, especially those who have a darker complexion. With a few exceptions, you don't really get the same kind of colors in Caucasian skin, so this is becoming great fun. Combining that with the different colors in the Milwaukee jersey, and you're gonna have a pretty colorful piece. I'm very much looking forward to that.

Hope you guys dig it so far.

Graig

Good grief.

I've got to go get my chin sling ready, because if that's only 25% of the way there, I'm going to need some support as this thing nears completion (you know, on account of my jaw dropping and all). If I were John, I'd be investing in some extra pants as well...

So when's the next raffle? Amazing!

Graig,
You said not even 25% done yet???? Holy crap that's so good already.

GoBucs,
In the fall sometime. Providing everything is a go.

Looks great so far

Wow, that is awesome! It is so cool to see this work in progress. Now that I'm seeing it come to life I'm thinking we made the right choice.

I was also a pleasure meeting you at the National. Did you manage to flip those '87 Topps for a profit?;)

This is absolutely amazing! Thanks for sharing the images and thought processes, Graig.

Also kicking myself for not perusing the floor more and finding your booth. Would've been great to shake your hand and also see your great works.

Thanks, everyone! :)

Dan, I hope we have it soon. I think we're hoping that Leon gives us a green light, and also, we might make this next one for a bit of a larger painting. I'm not too sure yet, but I would imagine we'll have it worked out in the coming weeks.

John, it was great meeting you, too! I hope I didn't scare you away by my '87 pack busting. I can't say that I turned a profit in the end. Though, I did give the rest of the wax box to a friend to distribute amongst young convention goers. I think they were a hit, though hopefully there was no illness due to gum consumption (though I think Cycleback didn't do so well with aspect).

Anywho, here's where we are at the end of today:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...ps654e98d8.jpg

The photo isn't all that good, as the light in the studio is wreaking havoc amongst the color, but that'll happen at night. However, I'm happy to say that it's completely blocked-in. Now, it's just going to be a lot of modulating of color temperatures, values and edges. Actually, I have a feeling that the progress that's going to happen from now on will be a bit less noticeable in these updates. I'll definitely try to be specific about certain sections, though. As of right now, it'll probably need to dry a bit tomorrow, so I'm not sure I'm going to be doing much more to it, but we'll see what the morning brings.

Glad to see we're getting somewhere!

Graig

This is what we have been looking for since we first started the Kreindler event. Effe, congratulations not only on winning, but on your choice. The finished product will be fantastic. It may not be a bad idea that you download the photos Graig is posting for the history of your piece.

Bill