OT: dogs being killed at the Sochi games. What we can do to help them
 

I know this is off topic, but I hope that everybody will indulge me for a moment, as this is something I feel is very important.

The last few nights, Keith Olbermann has led off his show talking about the Sochi Winter games, and the hundreds of dogs that are being inhumanely killed in the streets. These poor animals were left behind when their families were forcibly relocated in order to make room for the facilities needed for the Olympic games. They are being shot with "poison darts" that, in essence, suffocate them. It is taking up to an hour and a half for these dogs to die. When I saw this, I was just heartbroken to say the least. I am as big a dog lover as you will ever meet. I am a member of the ASPCA, and my family and I have adopted a number of shelter dogs over the years.

Here is Keith's lead off on Thursday night:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/mpaeDGa1LpI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I sent Keith a message on Twitter asking him where we could send money to help these poor animals where it wouldn't fall into corrupt hands. He sent me a link to the Humane Society International website:

http://www.hsi.org/issues/street_dog...ationally.html

If you want to help, merely click on the "please support our efforts to help street dogs worldwide" link in order to make a donation that will help them rescue these dogs. For those of you that prefer not to give out your credit card info, you can do what I did, and donate via Paypal.

You can also let Russian President Vladimir Putin know that you are appalled by these inhuman street killings by signing the petition here

Please spread the word about this. Let your friends and family members know what is going on, and what they can do to help. And help me to take action. These poor dogs cannot speak out, nor save themselves, so we need to, because what is going on in Sochi right now in the name of "sport" is unconscionable. It needs to stop.

I'm in! Just donated. :)

I'm in. That is horrible, what a bunch of BS!

Thanks for bringing this up Bill. Absolutely unconscionable and heartbreaking what they're doing. Just donated and signed the petition as well.

Josh

Thank you, guys. If you can, post this on your Twitter, and Facebook pages. We need to get action on this as quickly as possible, because these beautiful creatures are just being slaughtered.

Now if you'll all excuse me, I'm going to hug my lab, and cry.

I'm with you Bill. Already plan on telling as many friends and family as I can as I'm sure others will be eager to do so as well.

Josh

I'm on board. Thanks for bringing this awful situation to light.

Not to say this isn't bad, but aren't there people out there that need help too? I would start there before I moved onto animals.

As bad as this is, dogs (and cats) are treated worse in China, Korea, and Viet Nam.

I get where you're coming from here.

BUT to look at this from another angle, and tie it in to your sentiment. If somehow, we were to focus solely on the needs of people, instead of getting sidetracked with animals, and other assorted causes, then we could get the people in a position, where maybe they could help the animals, in the form of being capable of giving them homes... Basically, a little trickle down effect..

For every job that gets outsourced, downsized, or whatever, not only do we make it harder on that household to function at full capacity, we also make it harder for them to be able to afford pets... And for every family that loses a house, they also(more than likely) lose a home for their pets, or potential pets... Start with the people, and the pets will greatly benefit as well..

How many people can afford to care for a pet, in terms of food and other general costs(licenses, whatever), but don't because the basic veterinary care makes it unaffordable for them? Probably plenty. Imagine instead of money being given to the ASPCA or other assorted animal groups, that the money went to support veterinary costs for lower end households. NOT saying more money, but the EXACT same money. Personally, I think more would be accomplished in terms of finding permanent homes for these animals..

Having said that. I'd still donate for this cause...

Disagree. Yes, there are people who need help, but on many levels people can help themselves. Animals cannot.

It isn't a question of either/or. There are may people who can't help themselves either, due to mental illness.

If you want to help animals, help animals

If you want to help people, then help people.

If you want to help both, then help both.

Stop arguing about it and get cracking...

Having lived in Eastern Europe for years, I can tell you... these stray dogs are everywhere, and don't exactly have a high quality of life. I don't think controlling the street population of dogs is a bad thing. We do the same thing here in the USA (strays are brought to the humane society etc, and many of those that aren't adopted are euthanized).

That being said, if they are shooting them with poison darts that make them suffer for a while, that's messed up.

+1

I have long since soured on the Olympics, due mainly to the crooked governing federations that rule over them. This is just another reason for me to shun them.

I am proud to say that I have never questioned anyone's good deeds in my life. There's just no need to do so. There's more than enough to go around.

+ 1 billion

Thanks for this thread Bill.

I get what you're saying, but the flaw in that argument is (for the most part) people have the ability to help themselves if they try......dogs can't help themselves.....ever.

Can children help themselves Ken? Particularly ill ones?

It's a ridiculous distinction. If people want to donate to animal rights organizations that's fine, people should give as they want, but to justify it by smugly suggesting the millions of needy people in the world can help themselves makes no sense at all.

+1

You can twist and turn it all you want but will 100% lose this argument. Not even close.

Of course you can make statements about all of the poverty and it's not their fault blah blah blah......but the dogs didn't do anything to deserve their fate. And no, some kids and adults can't fend for themselves, but the dogs are just different. Say what you want to and the more you say the deeper you will dig, only in my opinion.

I never said it wasn't a good cause, Leon. If that's what moves you, that's fine by me. Where I get offended is where someone says the dogs are MORE deserving of charity than suffering people.

They are BOTH deserving and I do my part to help the homeless every single week and have for almost 15 yrs.

That being said, and I know this is crazy, but I get at least (and probably more) sad seeing dogs that are abused as I do people. Dogs are unconditional best friends, as my rescued stray is literally sleeping on my arm right now.

I don't think it's crazy, I've owned and loved dogs, I was only reacting to the statement that people can help themselves.

Who said THAT on this thread?

Some can some can't. But they have more of a chance than most stray dogs, again only imo.......

+1

Stop arguing and get cracking!

jeff

It seemed a fair inference when someone posted let's start with people and two responses were essentially that people can help themselves but animals cannot.

Good cause, but I doubt any of the money will actually save a single dog in Russia...they completely cut off a village near Sochi just to make a damn road. Ever seen a Russian dashcam video? They have no regard for life at all in that country. It's like having Jethro Bodine with nuclear weapons.

With MY log in name LOL
 

Well count me in. Just signed petition and sent $$.
I too will be passing this on to all my contacts and have my kids send to their friends and classmates.
An animal gives us unconditional love and affection. Personally, all of my pets were more a part of my family than some members OF my family.
Just ask the 3 that still reside in marble vases on my fireplace:D

I think this is a righteous thing to do, to try to help helpless animals. No innocent life should suffer abuse, and these dogs do need to be helped. Hopefully the attention will bring about change for these dogs in Russia.

With that being said, I think some people have become desensitized to suffering humans, not only in this country but around the world. When people assume that all homeless people can help themselves, I wonder how much thought is actually put into this way of thinking.

If you are homeless, sleeping on a cardboard box under dirty blankets, in the same clothes you've worn for a month, waiting in line at a shelter (that's full to capacity) for your one charitable meal for the day- no family or friends- how do you "help yourself"?! Do you go and start turning in job applications, no phone number, address, dirty, tired, hungry? What do you do? WHO will hire you?

We, as a country, send billions of dollars in "foreign aid" to country's that hate our guts, but we turn a blind eye to our fellow AMERICAN HUMAN BEINGS who are in need. It makes me F@#$%^! sick.

Thanks for letting me vent.

Sincerely, Clayton

Same for all of my family's pets...We always had dogs growing up. I recall at one time there were 4. Before my mother had passed last year from cancer, she requested that she be buried with 3 of them, and that my father(when he passes), be buried with the other 3. Or 2, depending on if Duke has passed by then. Dad's in pretty good shape, and Duke is a 10 year old, 125+ lb, American Bulldog who is aging very quickly at this point. It'll break my dad's heart when he passes. He was my mom's protector and best-friend(even to the point where people weren't allowed near her at times, when she was sick). He's been as depressed as the rest of us since my mother's passing, and he and my father have really bonded over it...

Every person deserves that type of bond, and so does every dog..

100% agree with this.

I would suggest you watch the Olberman lmk again. The show participants suggested the dogs reacted like pets , not feral animls. A factoid was thrown out about people being relicated by the government in order to build the facilities. It was suggested the dogs were staying where they used to live. Why did the dogs not go with their former masters? And on and on...

This just smacks of big business, big government, big television taking what is wanted and ignoring the rest. We dont know what happened to the people, if anything. But we do know what is being done to the dogs.

My wife and I have five rescued cats, the only reason we don't have dogs at this time. Our local community is trying to raise several hundred thousand dollars to construct a safe, warm animal shelter. In an area with a total population of under 25,000 it will not happen soon but it will happen.

I can tell you people in this small area with its very limited funds do get better attention than animals. We dont euthanize people.

Keith Temple

Your inference is pretty far out if you deduced that I said that dogs are MORE deserving of charity than humans. In any case, it's pretty dicey to establish a "needometer" to gauge what is more of a priority for charitable giving. With limited resources, we all must, unfortunately, pick and choose.

Yes, I agree and said so, people should give as their hearts dictate. My dispute was with the notion being offered to justify giving to animal rights that people can fend for themselves. I did not bring that into the picture, you did.

I agree with you as far as it goes, but I would assert that we as a society do not turn a blind eye. Sadly, more is always needs. What "makes me F@#$%^! sick", in the context of this thread, is the inhumane extermination of these dogs so that some hipster can barrel down a hill for endorsements on a snowboard.

I wonder if any of the athletes or the USOC will make themselves heard on this.

Are there not organizations that are already set up for children?? Not sure what your point is. There are organizations for EVERYBODY. The argument was against other people saying "shouldn't that money go to people who are needy?".......you know the people who stand on the corners begging for money and then when you don't roll down your window they curse you out and flip off and tell you that their wife is bleeding between her legs and they can't afford tampons for her.....yep those. They have so much creatively to come up with scams and schemes to get your hand out, that they should be putting that creativity to better use with a job.

Ya know,...
 

you can always tell how far off topic a post is by the winding trail that the responses take, and the degree to which the passion escalates.

Needless to say, this one is shaping up to be WAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY OT.:(

What do I think, some may ask?
Oh well, ...I learned long long ago that what I think doesn't matter. :p:rolleyes::o

You conveniently omit that I wrote ON MANY LEVELS people can help themselves and that animals cannot. If this is not so, tell me how it's not. I don't see how giving to animal welfare needs to be justified. You brought THAT into the picture.

Ken I think we are squabbling needlessly and we probably agree more than disagree, but why bring whether people can or can't help themselves into it at all? How is it even relevant to whether this is a good cause? Why did you bring it up in the first place?

I'll say it. I hate most people, and I love most animals.

You can help animals in your local area. And/or people too. That's not a snide remark, but a recommendation. There are strays and shelters in all localities, and being nice to a strange dog or providing water and food for local birds in winter is all a good thing. Adopt a new pet and give it an enjoyable life. Be helpful to others is also a good start. Be nice to your pet, take it for a walk today. Get your dog or cat spayed or neutered. Built a bird's nest that will protect it from cats. Have a conversation with a homeless person on the street, treat him or her as a normal person. People begging for money have told me they appreciate a conversation more than money. If you want to do charity more formal, that's great. Sign up to volunteer once a week. If you wish to donate money for a Russian dog shelter, that's great. If you prefer your charity go to downtrodden humans instead of dogs that's great as long as you do it. As my dad would say "It's not an either/or situation, it's a both/and."

Interestingly, Putin is a well known dog fan and is famous/notorious for bringing his black lab with him to meetings, including with international leaders such as German Chancellor Angela Merkel below.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ary_2007-1.jpg

http://img.allvoices.com/thumbs/even...-putin-and.jpg

The photos aren't an endorsement, just something about Putin I already knew. I read a lot.

You and Linus.

Sorry, but if I have to choose between donating to Dana Farber to help with a family's excessive medical expenses or donating to a bunch of mutts in another country, the choice is simple.

I'm with ya John. I'd give to the pooches everytime too!:)

As far as homeless go, I live in the big city and see them and many are clearly seriously mentally ill. Many of them are perfectly nice and friendly when you talk to them, but they clearly don't have the mental and sometimes physical capabilities that the average person does. Arguing that they should pull themselves up without others' help is silly.

As I said before, if person A wants to help dogs in Russia, person B wants to help cats locally and persons D and E wants their charity to go to humans, great. What's to complain about there? It's not a dogs versus humans argument.

The other side of the story...
 

Bill - thanks for posting this. It is truly heart-breaking. And thanks to Keith O for his well-done program.

Clayton - I sent you an email regarding homelessness. I know that Nevada has gotten a lot of flack for shipping their homeless to California, as opposed to helping them, so it could be that you are seeing an extreme. Homelessness is terrible, regardless of the level, but you should be aware of some of the efforts that are being made (and working) in other parts of the country. I can really only speak for Seattle, where I've lived downtown for 7 years - it could be that we are the other extreme from what you've seen, not that it's good to be homeless here.

I don't know. I forgot.

No seriously (somewhat), to react to the below post. Nothing more. I respect that people prioritize things differently. But it is a fact that stray dogs cannot help themselves. And yes, I agree that children mostly cannot help themselves, but they are not being shot with poison darts, at least not in any civilized country that I know of.

Originally Posted by johnmh71
"Not to say this isn't bad, but aren't there people out there that need help too? I would start there before I moved onto animals."

I'm done.

I think everyone should be forced to only eat only one food item (whichever one they think is the best), and nothing else.

Or to be more relevant to this forum, you can only collect one baseball card - whichever one you think is the most important.

Soy, and Ripken (89Fleer?), soooo many variations.

Thanks Bill, for this thread. When I first saw it last night, I thought it really wouldn't get much of a response. Boy was I wrong.

Bout time someone mentions seinfeld and/or the 3rd reich. (sp?) oops I just did.:D (godwins rule)

In short, it's possible to chew gum and walk at the same time, wear a shirt and pants simultaneously, and to be charitable to both dogs and humans. There is no dogs versus humans dilemma. In fact, when you find a stray dog a good home, you're being kind to both.

Did you know? Curly Howard of the Three Stooges was an animal lover and spent much of his free time finding homes for strays he found while traveling. He also was a quiet person and, away from the camera, only did his comic routines for people he knew well.

And did you know that Bela Lugosi was the first person to breed white German Shepherds in the United States? His family portraits included the human and dogs members.

Bill
 

Hi Bill, I guess my only issue is to question why you would post this on a vintage card website? Aren't there hundreds of other sites where your post would be more appropriate? If you want to use this site, then maybe the water cooler section would be a better choice? Should we all start posting our personal issues on the main page of this board?



Rick

My only issue is why someone who has posted approximately 1 thread not pertaining to selling something, in the last year or so, can remotely question someone who has started a ton of good threads, then posts an off topic one? Care to guess which is a more valuable member, in my eyes?

Leon is your reaction perhaps colored by the fact that the post was about a subject that obviously is one you feel passionately about?

I think Rick does have a valid point. For example autism and developmental disabilities are very important to me, but I would not have thought to start a thread on a baseball card board urging people to donate to those causes.

Well it was about a K. O. thing, and he is a good member, I think. Sports too, are there (olympics). And overall Bill's a great guy. It's ok with Leon, then it's ok by me.:)........Leons call.

+1

Rick's okay and contributes to the board behind the scenes with mailing issues. Dogs and Parakeets occasionally pop up of the main board, but I would defend anyone's right to question their presence here.

Yes and no. In my eyes, as moderator, I give a heck of a lot of leeway to the folks who add the most value to the board. Members who start good threads are my favorite members, in that respect.
And yes, I am a passionate dog lover, so that could play a little bit into it but not as much as my response above.

That being said I have already PM'd another good member today about an off topic as I do think there are a few too many at this current time. But besides that, and as far as the board's welfare is concerned, I am sticking to my story.

And I also need to add that Rick (hi Rick) is a good guy and this wasn't meant to be personal but is meant to give my opinion on the subject.

Leon
 

Leon, no problem here. You are correct. Most of the threads I start are in the BST. As far as value to the board - that is beside the point. The point is that I disagree with this type of post. No offense meant to Bill as I enjoy most of his threads. You are the moderator and it is up to you to moderate - not me. I have the utmost respect for you and for what you do.

Rick

Dave, same here. When my Mom passed away her 3 favorite cats went with her. It really is strange the bonds we develop with our pets. As they say, dogs are mans best friend.

My wife and I have two adopted daughters from China....this reminds me somewhat of some of the jackwads who will say 'why didn't you adopt from the US?'. My response is 'what have you done?'. Bottom line.....humans or animals, local or far away. just. do. something.

Classy post Rick. Good man.

+1...good point, Tom. Doesn't matter where any human or animal is, if you can help, I'm sure it will go a long way.

Also wanted to thank Bill for starting this thread because I'm positive that because of his efforts, donations have been made that otherwise would not have been...and for that, we know some animals are getting care that is much needed.

Thanks for your understanding Rick. And it goes to show why you are one of the good guys. I appreciate it. I also respect your opinion too. You should always be able to give it, regardless if it goes against my grain or with it :) and not fear any repercussions. I am sure there are a percentage of folks that would prefer no off topics at all. I understand that too. Take care and happy collecting....

I donate plenty to needy children in America. Actually, come April 15th I'll be sending another "charitable donation" ;)

In all seriousness, this is a worthwhile cause (no one hear can deny that). If there is a cause more "worthy" it's best to take action and raise funds/awareness for that cause rather than $hit on everyone else's parade in a well-intentioned thread.

On a side note, I donated last week when I first heard about this.

My wife would cut a person who says that dogs don't have feelings.


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Ultimately, that's all I care about. This is happening right now, and there's not a lot of coverage about it in the news. And that's just tragic. These poor creatures need somebody to speak out for them, so I've done it everywhere I can think of. And if we've helped to even save a few dogs, then it is worthwhile to me. Thank you to everybody that has helped to spread the word, and has reached into their pockets to help those that are on the ground working to save these beautiful dogs. We are all God's creatures, and should be treated with kindness.

Thanks, Bill. Amazingly (this is a true story), I have been able to adopt dogs and also to help homeless people. Weird, but true. I'm glad I didn't have to choose.

Nice

Good for you, Scott. If everybody just did a little bit to help out those in need, be it animals, or people, the world would be a much better place. I agree with Tom. Just do something to make a difference. We don't all need to be philanthropists on the level of a Bill Gates. Sometimes kindnesses that might seem insignificant at first glance have a way of snowballing for the greater good. The people here on Net 54 are salt of the Earth, and I knew coming here appealing to everybody's humanity would do some good. So, again, to those of you that donated, or raised awareness, I thank you. People like you all made a difference, and it's being reported that Russia has stopped the killing of the dogs. What they're doing to help them going forward I do not know, but with this senseless murdering now a thing of the past, the people that want to help them can now get in without the threat of some random deadline.

I for one will sleep better tonight.

Looks like this story really has a happy ending. Great article on efforts by U.S. Olympian Gus Kenworthy and Russian billionaire Oleg Deripaska to help save these dogs.

http://www.eonline.com/news/510338/o...-dogs-in-sochi

Bill, thanks again for bringing this topic to light. It's voices like yours that helped turn a tragedy into possibly the feel-good story of the year.

Josh

A happy ending indeed. I am aware that most of you will probably not watch this video, but I think it is the best and most important response to the question that ended up being debated in this thread, that of choosing among various worthy charities. And it's heartening to see that there is enough charitable intent among my fellow collectors that such an issue would be discussed here. Please take a look.

http://www.ted.com/talks/peter_singe..._altruism.html

Thanks for the link, Darwin...I love Ted talks.


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