Premium for Lionel Carter collection cards
 

This might be difficult to say given the diversity of Mr. Carter's collection, but what kind of premium do you think his cards sell for?

Thanks.

$0

I have sold quite a few cards from Lionel Carter's collection over the last five years (more than 100) and have generally realized prices in the 1.25 to 2X range, depending on the card. Some examples sold on eBay since 2008:

1948 Bowman #34 Sheldon Jones SGC 50 $45
1948 Bowman #26 Frank Shea SGC 50 $40
1937 O-Pee-Chee #130 Ben Chapman SGC 60 $175
1948 Bowman #25 Barney McCoskey SGC Authentic $45
1948 Bowman #28 Emil Verban SGC Authentic $50
1948 Bowman #38 Red Schoendienst SGC 84 $590
1948 Bowman #42 Ray Poat SGC 70 $72
1948-49 Leaf #128 Warren Rosar SGC 88 $475
1948 Bowman #48 George Koslo RC SGC 88 $800
1948 Bowman #16 Jack Lohrke SGC 88 $400
1948 Bowman #27 Sid Gordon SGC 88 $300
1948-49 Leaf #14 Billy Johnson SGC 86 $400
1948 Bowman #1 Bob Elliott SGC 84 $146.50
1948 Bowman #6 Yogi Berra SGC 84 $611.01
1948-49 Leaf #53 Johnny Vandermeer SGC 84 $251.98
1948 Bowman #3 Ralph Kiner RC SGC 84 $260.00
1948 Bowman #17 Enos Slaughter SGC 84 $178.00
1937 O-Pee-Chee #137 Lefty Grove SGC 84 $1000.00
1937 O-Pee-Chee #139 Buck Newsom SGC 84 $400.00
1948 Bowman #36 Stan Musial Rookie SGC 88 $3250.00
1948-49 Leaf #11 Phil Rizzuto SGC 84 $750.00
1948-49 Leaf #31 Lou Brissie SGC 86 $500.00
1948-49 Leaf #83 Bobby Doerr SGC 86 $600.00
1948-49 Leaf #77 Roy Smalley SGC 86 $450.00
1948-49 Leaf #39 Ewell Blackwell SGC 84 $265.00
1948-49 Leaf #1 Joe DiMaggio SGC 80 $2500.00
1937 O-Pee-Chee #119 Bill Dickey SGC 84 $1200.00
1948-49 Leaf #49 Del Ennis SGC 88 $700.00
1948-49 Leaf #14 Billy Johnson SGC 86 $400.00
1956 Topps #181 Billy Martin SGC 88 $400.00
1948 Bowman #5 Bob Feller SGC 92 $1000.00
1948-49 Leaf #91 Ralph Kiner SGC 84 $425.00
1948 Bowman #18 Warren Spahn RC SGC 84 $750.00
1934-36 Diamond Stars #11 Bill Dickey SGC 84 $550.00
1934-36 Diamond Stars #32 Sam Rice SGC 84 $225.00


Note: Some of the card prices above reflect a multiplier greater than 2X, but this mostly comprises those examples that are otherwise NM-MT or Mint but have relatively small defects that lower the technical condition by one or more grades.

Thanks, both of you. I had some recollection that a premium often didn't exist. A few of the cards on my radar are fairly high grades so this information is very helpful.

I think it would only bring. A premium if people know who he was. If I were selling cards from his collection I would include information about Mr.Carter or a link to a page with info about him.

I know who he is. I just don't place a premium on a previous owner. To me, the card is the card.

Agree 100 percent.

Depends on the card and who the buyer is. I see both arguments, but I personally place a small premium on some of his tougher cards because well, I think it's cool.

The value is in the mind of the purchaser
 

I believe that any additional value given to card based on who collected it in the past is assigned by the purchaser.

For example, I paid a little more for a T206 Tinker from the Skydash collection, solely because I enjoyed remembering how the discovery of the collection unfolded on this board. To me the memory was worth the extra $20 I paid for the card.

Maybe someday my grandson will ask me why the card is encapsulated with Skydah on the label and I will have a good story to tell him about how some old cardboard was rescued from the garbage.

Best regards,

Joe

Exactly what I meant Joe. Well said!

That is exactly how I feel about this scenario as well. Joe, your explanation was spot on IMO.

There is indeed a premium, but it solely depends on the purchaser. I enjoy purchasing cards with pedigree labels...they give the card more history and if it's someone famous in the hobby, it makes the card that much more special...but that's just me :)


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+1...

I have only had one Lionel Carter card ever. It brought no premium whatsoever.

I think there should be a small premium. In the interest of full disclosure, I own the first set he completed - collected straight out of packs. In the interest of further disclosure, it is NOT for sale.
JimB

http://photos.imageevent.com/jimblum...20SGC%2050.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/jimblum...20SGC%2040.jpg

That's awesome, Jim. I too think there should be a small premium...just like there is with original owner cards...the provenance has value...to some that is!

Agreed. Again this is personal. I would think that over time the actual value increase would be minimal.

I would pay a little more for a good pedigree....

Lionel Carter
 

Attachment 130315

I was able to get about 60 of his T207's. His desire for quality shows how scarce some of these cards can be.

JimB
 

great acquisitions of a great set from the collection of a key figure in the early history of the hobby.
I have no problem paying a premium for Lionel Carter collection cards because of his early contributions to this fine hobby.
In a similar vein from a vocational perspective, I have collected key tomes
in my own academic specialties from major thinkers' own personal collections.
Admittedly, I have chosen only very,very few individuals to represent the avocational and vocational arenas. The premiums paid were no match for
the personal and professional value I received.
Still, I will add 'to each his own'.

all the best,
barry

I guess my biggest issue with these "pedigreed" cards (i.e Carter, Nagy, etc.) is their direct tie to slabbing. You don't see anyone out there selling/marketing raw cards from theses guys' collections.

Lionel
 

Lionel had some great cards, with really nice eye appeal. I have no problem paying a premium for the pedigree.

Tony

Well said Joe!

Mr. Carter was a passionate collector and I'm happy to have a small piece of that passion in my collection. The premium was minimal.


Jantz

Nice card. Looks a bit undergraded.

I think there should be a small premium too, because all things being equal, there should be more demand for cards with a known pedigree than those without. And Carter certainly was in the pantheon of early collectors. It's just common sense they would be a little more desirable.

I like Lionel's cards and would pay (have paid) a bit more for them. Other famed collectors who seemed to get a lot of trimmed/doctored cards (Nagy, Harris) I won't buy at all for any price:

Very cool Jim how much? :)

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2480/3...16c4c365_o.jpg

I'd pay a premium for, among other reasons, the reduced likelihood that the card is trimmed.

I guess everything has a price…
JimB

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/l91ISfcuzDw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

lol. :d

From my experiences Lionel Carter designated T206 cards do in fact demand a modest premium when compared to other similar T206's. I have four Lionel Carter T206 designated cards each of which I purchased thru regular ebay auctions. I paid roughly 15 - 20% more than what I would estimate non Carter cards went for at the time. I cannot opine on anything other than the T206's. I had no problem paying a bit more given their provenance.

Then buy a dog. :)

&nbsp;

rob d
 

wow!!!
this is the best way to have the 2 toughest of the 520 IMHO.
congratulations!
all the best,
barry

I believe on higher end cards there is one
 

I do not believe there should be one however I think generally there is.

If there are two identical cards, in roughly the same condition I think the "Carter" card would and should sell for a bit more.

<p><img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/mhgt/hoft206/prewarcards/fronts/large/D304%20Evers%20no%20team.jpg" width="479" height="800"></p>

The LC provenance makes owning a good card a bit better.

http://photos.imageevent.com/kawika_...J%20Matty1.jpg

THAT is not a good card David. That is a GREAT card.....LC certainly had a good eye....

Damn, I love this card to death.

Great cards, all. :D

http://www.collectorfocus.com/images...-cubs-on-shirt

Yes
 

Naturally, it will depend on the card and its grade, but yes, there should be some sort of premium attached to a card with the provenance of being from Lionel Carter's personal collection.

He had "the eye", as shown by the scan of the 1914 Cracker Jack Christy Mathewson, as well as ALL the cards our members are sharing. Never mind the technical grade of the Cracker Jack Matty, the heart of the image is superb, and it's centered to boot. That is one of the great cards, period. Having known Mr. Carter personally, though not extensively, I will vouch for the fact he was extremely picky on condition. While he was collecting, he was always on the lookout to upgrade a card, too.

Prewar, postwar, oh brother, what a wonderful collection. He really did not wish to part with his cards, and the vast haul given to him for his collection did nothing to diminish his yearning for them. Advancing years, failing health, and a robbery. The latter was the straw that broke him. Legendary Auctions was instrumental in getting his stolen collection returned to Mr. Carter. That act of justice and kindness should always be remembered where they are concerned. I know. I know. There are other issues involved with Legendary, but I cannot fathom how excruciatingly traumatic that must have been for Lionel and Irma.

Time to hush again. A decent premium is certainly warranted where Mr. Carter's cards are concerned. I dare say that knowing a card once resided in his collection is half the fun of owning one today.

---Brian Powell

David, that card is stunning. Ever since I have seen this card for the first time, it's been one of my favorites. I'm gonna have to grab one sooner rather than later!


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If a card has
 

great eye appeal for the grade it should always have a premium. To say every card he had had strong eye appeal is also not correct. I agree he had tons of gorgeous cards. But cards should be judged on the cards merits not who owned it previously. I can see a premium on Mickey Mantle's personal 1952 Topps Mantle, or similar items, but not Mr. Carter's cards simply because he owned them.

Droooool!
JimB

Thought I'd bump a great thread. I completely agree with Jeff here, to me and many others, Lionel's cards were some of the most beautiful in the hobby and should surely command some premiums. He really did have an eye for great looking cards! The fact that it came from his collection gives me peace of mind that the cards are likely pure and legit and free of any alterations. My only example is a beauty, rich colors, great centering and a crisply registered image of Prince Hal ;)

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps93b6a68f.jpg

lionel carter
 

that is quite the beauty with top shelf provenance.
congrats.
all the best,
barry

Hey Buddy, that really is a beautiful card. :)

This E94 young may be my only Lionel!

Thanks guys, it might be my only LC, but it sure is a neat card :cool:

Love that "OLD" Young card Pete :)

The E94s are good looking cards.

thanks guys...love those E94's!

I have a Chase t206 SGC 5.5 that looks exactly like the Lionel. In fact, inspired partly by him, I only collect great looking cards with great centering, with premium or not. An aesthetic premium in any case.

I bought a lot of T206s with the intention of breaking them up and selling them for enough to keep one for my collection as my "profit." I listed them with a good auction house, but it did not work out. I actually lost money on the ones I sold and think they may have done just as well just on the basis of their grade. You win some, you lose some. I did manage to keep one for my collection, though.

I'm on the side of a small premium versus the same card of the same grade w/o that distinction...

http://www.collectorfocus.com/images...hank-greenberg

I was an avid collector of Lionel Carter owned cards, had over 3 dozen different issues.
Was forced to sell off most of them via Love Of The Game's last auction and the majority did real well.

Here's one of the one's I kept since Bull Durham lived in the town next to mine, New Oxford, PA

http://www.qualitycards.com/pictures/1239568202.jpg

Had this T206 for a short while and I miss it :(
http://www.qualitycards.com/pictures/1243495452.jpg

Here's some others... Which disprove the theory that Mr Carter was quality oriented.
http://www.qualitycards.com/pictures...rpedigreeb.jpg

http://www.qualitycards.com/pictures/carterpedigree.jpg

I understand why people would
 

But I personally could care less who the previous owner was unless it were a card doctor , than I'd be afraid I was missing something.

I picked up a couple of Eddie Stanky cards from the ES Collection which I did think was a little bit cool.

I agree
 

A card of the player owned by the player is pretty cool.

I agree!

http://www.qualitycards.com/pictures...collection.jpg

Hi jay
 

Great to see you posting my friend.

Really cool. I love player owned cards, especially their own.

jay w
 

with glyn,
I'm mighty happy to see you back on board. I always love seeing your Lionel Carter cards. I know that most of mine have come from you over the years.
I do hope that the health is improving quickly, ole buddy.

all the best,
barry

Glyn, Barry & the others, thanks for the kind words & support.
Taking it day by day & hoping I'll be well enough to spend a few days at the Cleveland Nat'l in 4 months.

Here are some Whitey Ford owned cards. Though I just have the '66 in my collection

http://www.qualitycards.com/pictures/fordpedigree.jpg

Great cards Jay! Always thinking of ya.

Beautiful cards Jay, love the WF collection Whitey's! Hope you're doing well!

Bob Feller
 

How is it possible that Bob Feller owned cards that he did not autograph. I thought Bob had a condition where any time a card was within 50 meters of a sharpie, he autographed it

So I've heard of this collection but what makes it so wanted or a given premium??

In Stamps or Coins; anytime an item came from a great collection and was properly sourced there was always a premium for the provenance. As we grow up as a hobby, there will be a growing premium for the Lionel Carter collection and I'm sure other great collections (The Leon Luckey type card collection for example) will also have premiums some day.

Rich

Agreed

And lets not forget Frank Nagy, like Lionel Carter a pioneer who shared his info w/ the hobby through various hobby publications.

http://www.qualitycards.com/pictures/nagyc.jpg

The only reason any of my cards will ever have a premium is because I hopefully have some with great eye appeal. They won't be marked of course and once sold (not too soon) they will just be more cards in the hobby. I can't imagine paying a premium for any collectors cards of today, solely because they were owned by a certain collector. As mentioned, I would pay a small premium for some of the hobby giant forefathers cards.
And also, great cards Jay W........I too am glad to see you posting and hanging out with us...hope you continue to feel and get better.

jay w
 

great Nagy cards! I have a few---the last one from you via LOTG:
Hughie Jennings portrait e90-1. gorgeous card.

all the best, ole buddy
barry

Leon & Barry, thanks for the support.

Here's another pair I hated to get rid of.

http://www.qualitycards.com/pictures/nagypedigreec.jpg

Speaking of hobby pioneers, this is a Jefferson Burdick owned E75 Jack O'Brien boxer
His familiar stampings are on the back, though SGC wouldn't list it as pedigreed
and ended up taking off a couple of grades due to the stampings.

http://www.qualitycards.com/pictures/1356898001b.jpg

Speaking of Lionel Carter...talk about a nice collection on ebay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/191118651238...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

That is a hell of a group of 4 Cobbies from Lionel's collection. It'll be interesting to see if they sell at that price. Always tough to pinpoint a price range when it comes to premiums for Lionel's cards. Some premiums are small, some are crazy. They sure are nice though ;)

I have made numerous purchases from Joe Y over the years and have met him at a few Nationals. He's a straight-up guy. Unlike a lot of eBay sellers Joe actually prices his wares at a realistic level; he does his homework. If that is what he thinks they are worth I am confident that someone will get a square deal on a sweet, solid set of T206 Cobbs.

Joe won the T206 Lionel Carter set from Legendary a few years ago
and I'm grateful he made most of the cards available to the public
though I wish I would have kept 1 or 2 from the small quantity I obtained.

Oh I hope they do sell for that price, that would just mean that premiums are continuing to get even stronger for Lionel's cards. IMO, they're worth it.