ebay seller - probstein123
 

Any experience with him before?

Yeah. He takes on consigned items from other individuals as well as selling some items himself.

I have purchased and sold many items to him and haven't had any issues, but know some here have...If you do a search, i'm sure it will turn up a thread or two.

Like this one... http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...t=probstein123

Thanks. I was just wondering why his auctions consistently sell for significantly higher than other sellers auctions for the exact same items (ie. autographs). Just thought that was a bit strange. Thanks for the feedback.

Probably because there is rampant shilling going on in his auctions.

I don't have a horse in this race and do not want to be part of the discussion. To those who accuse him of shilling, your accusations are noted. I have no way of knowing weather he does or not. Obviously if it goes on it's a terrible thing.

If you do a search for probstein on this site, you will eventually come to an absolute clusterf*** of a thread that went into some fairly sordid detail as I recall regarding some fairly damning evidence on the card side. I don't think that the accusation is that he himself is doing the shilling, but rather is fairly knowledgeable that it is happening and is doing nothing at all about it.

I don't really have a dog in the fight. I give him a lot of credit for the business that he has built.

Tom C

It's not so much he shilling but his consignors shilling up their own items.

Per.ry l.in

And your name is???? (rules of the forum)

Again, and your name is????? Leon, am I wrong here???

Yes, I have evidence. Read post #39 in this thread. I laid it out pretty clearly...

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=174881

It's been pointed out to Rick several times that his consignors shill their items, yet he chooses to do nothing about it. He still lets them consign and he still lets them bid. How do you feel about that?

I have looked at some of the bidders history on his auctions and have found many times the amount of bidders that have retracted there bids is amasing and high. Why Ebay even lets those bidders on is beyond me. Thought there was a limit on retractions before they kicked you off. Hum. keith janosky

I've bid on some of his items but the prices usually went above what I was willing to pay.

Last (and only) item I've won from them, somebody made 15 bids in $2 increments.

Damn. It has been awhile since we've had a 123 thread.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Are you kidding? You can't be serious if you have been on this forum for longer than ten minutes. It has pretty much been proven beyond a reasonable doubt more times than most members can keep straight.

I agree with previous posts about people putting their names in if you are going to side with an obvious shiller.

I never purchased anything from him, but have watched and bid on a few items but always go much higher then I would like to spend. Seems to have a few BIN that seem reasonable, but haven't pulled the trigger on anything.

Do these 86 fleers look shilled??

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=380788247091
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1986-87-Flee...p2047675.l2557

The first link isn't working, but I would have to say yes on the second one. When an item has 80 bids and 47 of them are from the same person (with only 15 feedback), it's not a good thing - not to mention the 7 feedback bidder that bid 13 times.

That was my set.

I placed no bids, had no one place a bid, nor did I care what it actually ended at as it is profit from a purchase.

That lot may not have been shilled, but what about the ones that have been proven to be shilled? What about the whole Panky situation where he's been caught multiple times shilling his own consignments? Sean, why does Rick let him continue to consign? Don't you see anything wrong with that? You know Rick, please ask him.

That means nothing. Just because you personally didn't shill the auction, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Probstein has skin in the game, so it is in his best interest to get the highest fee possible. Plus it shows possible future customers that he can get top dollar for items.

I bet that if you sold the same item yourself that you would have had a much lower selling price. And don't tell me it is because of return customers. I have been buying/selling on eBay for 14 years, and buyers purchase based on the item and price. Seller reputation only goes so far, in my opinion.

Ma.tt Wy.llie

+1

Two choices for everyone in this thread. If your full name is not in your post then you need to put it. If you don't then I will tomorrow morning, per the rules...... Or you can edit your comments out. (If your comment was not any kind of an opinion then it's not mandatory)....Thanks

btw, this is the first I have seen of this thread. Believe it or not I don't read every single one. Folks can PM me for any anonymous issues on the board....and your PM will stay private....

Just how many peasants do you own?

From someone who only skimmed the last thread about Probstein but has read this one thoroughly,,, it seems there is a lot of smoke here and when there is a lot of smoke there is naturally a lot of fire.

Have you called and asked him? He posts his cell publicly.

So are you saying Probstein shills his own auctions or asks someone to shill his auctions for him?

I don't care to talk to that worthless piece of sh!t. His actions speak for themselves.

You just verified that an auction you thought was shilled... Was not...

No, I am not saying that. I am saying that he gets higher prices on his auctions for items than other sellers.

I bet that if you sold the same item yourself that you would have had a much lower selling price. And don't tell me it is because of return customers. I have been buying/selling on eBay for 14 years, and buyers purchase based on the item and price. Seller reputation only goes so far, in my opinion.

So if return customers aren't the reason for that item selling for the price it did... What is it?

Anyone who doesn't believe there is rampant shilling in his auctions has their head in the sand. I don't care if it's him, the consignors or the boogey man...it's been obvious in many cases.

It's been proven that Rick allows shilling on his auctions as it's been pointed out to him multiple times and he's done absolutely nothing about it. That is not an accusation, that is a fact. How can you set there and defend that or even do business with him for that matter?

And how does he know that that auction wasn't shilled?

I remember saying you had such good proof... I don't remember ever seeing it posted... Did I miss a thread?

Is Rick a personal friend of yours, Sean?

This almost seems like a Travis and TPAs thread.

No, the threads are real Sean, they are on the card side

No he is not.

Please don't ever compare me to Travis. I have not once said I do not believe shilling has occurred in Rick's auctions. But your constant berating is unnecessary.

Dave went far above and beyond saying he had 'hard evidence'. I can't find it in any of the threads.

And how could you not care what a lot sells for if it was profit from another deal.....if that's so, why wouldn't you just auction it yourself? 2+2=5 there.......

Money isn't the world. Items sell for what they sell. I view what I do as 'day trading' for cards. Win some lose some.

Because I fly around the country. It is much easier sending it to Rick, having him list it, pack it, ship it, and getting paid the next day regardless of if the auction is actually paid?

I guess you did. Here it is...

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=174881

See post #39. I laid out all the evidence and connected all the dots. Any questions?

That is not what I am referring to. I will reiterate, I have not once said I do not believe shilling has occurred in Rick's auctions. You went above and beyond this post saying you had proof that Rick had done something worse... For some reason the search function on my e-mail isn't working or I would pull the PM to get the exact wording.

Can someone show me the "hard evidence" of Panky still consigning and shilling with Rick?

That would be what I am referring to.

I'm not defending Rick or blasting anyone here, I just want to know if there is any truth to this claim. If there is, I would like to see some sort of evidence to this claim. It is a fairly serious accusation.

I will make my stance clear since several members are misinterpreting it.

- I have no comment when it comes to shilling. I do not deny that it happened.
- I have not and will not ever shill my own auctions.
- The constant berating of Rick is unnecessary and uncalled for.
- The SUPER MAJORITY of auctions are fine. I do not see comments ever made on those.
- I have offered to e-mail Rick on anyone's behalf who believe an auction is being shilled. He will act accordingly if it is.
- When his name is mentioned in conversation and the first thing out of the persons mouth (actually happened today viewing an inventory), "oh so you shill your auctions?" It hurts. Not everyone is honest and I get grouped into them because of your comments.

This has already been discussed as well. But we can revisit is again. If you look at Probstein's stores, Panky's is "The GEM Collection."

Wasn't talking to you or about you. Just the general nature of this thread.

Please repost the proof you were referring to when we spoke.

And if you want proof of my last comment, just read post #368 (page 37) of this thread...

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=174608

Guys, seriously, why do we have to go through this every time Rick's name is brought up? The same people always question it and ask for proof and the same proof is always provided. The facts aren't going to change just because you ask over and over to see them.

So this forum should not discuss the obvious shill bidding going on in Probstein's auctions because you choose to sell your cards through him. Got it.

Proof of what, Sean? What do you want me to prove?

I have provided everything you've asked for. Want more proof? Just let me know what exactly it is you want me to prove.

If obliged you, pleas oblige me: Now having proof that Rick allows shilling on his auctions and does nothing about it, how can you continue to do business with him with a clear conscience? It's a legitimate question.

Money trump all?

Don't put words in my mouth. I am saying it can be done with more tact.

Okay, so give us an example of how pointing out the shill bidding can be done with "tact". Should we come to you and have our posts approved before posting?

He provides the labor and time that I just don't have. My conscience is clear because I don't shill my own auctions.

I have a very, very high tolerance level for just about everything but... I now see why Rick doesn't bother responding to you dicks. Because you are just that, dicks.

I could use a few more choice words but I won't... Have a nice evening I'm done.

He doesn't respond to us dicks because we would eat him alive. It's hard to respond when all the evidence is right there in his face.

Edited to add: Rick allows shilling in his auctions and does absolutely nothing about it and we're the dicks? Ummm, yeah. Ok.

Stay Classy, Sean. I'm quoting this so your comments will remain on the forum forever.

.

Last I spoke to Rick it seemed like he was doing a fair amount to clean up the hobby. It seems like Panky is providing a considerable amount of revenue for Rick, I can't blame him for not dropping him as a consignor.

Can you elaborate on that? What EXACTLY is it that he's doing to clean up the hobby.

Your statment makes no sense. You say he's cleaning up the hobby, yet you don't blame him for not dropping Panky as a consignor. Well, if he is indeed trying to clean up the hobby, wouldn't dropping Panky as a consignor help to clean up the hobby (even if only a tiny fraction)?

:confused:

Useless piece of sh!t? What do you want me to say here, Sean?

Anybody in Rick's position that has been made aware of fraud going on within his auctions by the same consignor twice (each about a year apart) and does absolutely nothing about it is a piece of sh!t in my book. How would you characterize someone that allows that?

Sean,

Can you see the actual ebay id's that bid so many times in this auction, and if so, can you (or Rick) out it?

Maybe you are misinterpreting others.
-You acknowledge shilling but will not comment on it.:eek:
-You say you have not shilled your auctions. GOOD FOR YOU KEEP IT UP.
-The berating of Rick IS called for until he changes his ways.
-The SUPER MAJORITY of Ricks auctions are fine. Great what about the others?
-You unfortunately got grouped into the shiller group because of who YOU do business with.

I personally do not bid on anything he lists because of a very deceptive auction I wanted to bid on about 2 yrs ago. He listed a large lot of cards(approx. 100) with the cheap cards all fanned out in the picture. Cheap cards with about $1 each value so no big deal that I could not see them. Then he pictured 3(4) very rare error cards fanned out with some $5 each cards. He made it easy to see the error portion of 3 cards that I was willing to pay $300 each for. Then he hid the error portion on one card.
I messaged him to ask about the card that the error part was hidden behind another card. I got a very rude response back about how it was already packed for shipping and it was not worth his time to look at 1 card. I messaged him with in 1 hour of it being listed.
I understand a $300 card is nothing to some people but it IS a lot for a piece of cardboard for me especially when it could have been a $1 card he had hidden to make it look like it could be a rare error card.
Sorry for the long post I just wanted everyone to know shilling is not the only reason people dislike Rick.

I can't see the ID's.

It seems that Sean wants to defend Probstein and he is welcome to do that in my opinion. I would like to point out that it is not always shill bidding that is the issue. I pointed out a very glaring error/ intentionally incorrect listing with 5 days remaining in the auction and he did not change it. This despite the fact that he acknowledge the error. A, in my opinion, $1.00 Bill Russell baseball player signature slabbed by Please Suck Another / Don't Never Ask is listed as a Bill Russell Boston Celtics signature and sells for hundreds more than it is worth. The slabbers did nothing wrong as it was what appears to be a genuine Bill Russell signature. It was the ebay seller, who despite being informed of the error, made no attempt to correct the listing. You will notice in the thread I started that Sean limply attempts to defend him. The point is not that the item can be returned. The point is that it should not have happened in the first place.

http://net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=175031

What follows is not a defense for or of Rick. I would call it something I view as a flaw and a reason I am dissatisfied with some of the service I receive.

Rick is "too busy" for anything that isn't a multi thousand dollar piece. He would rather eat a return that will cause him to be out less money than if he spent the time not listing the higher end items he receives.

Dealing with a return is less hassle and time than fixing an auction title or description? This has not been my experience as a seller on ebay.

I don't sell nearly the volume I used to, but that's never been my experience either. I'm sure most sellers (high volume or not) would agree.

Besides, there is another side to this. What about the hassle of a return for the buyer?

This is the worst excuse a seller can use IMO. He chose to do what he does for a profession. If that means he spends extra time to do it the right way, then that's what he should do. If he doesn't want to be bothered with low end cards, then he shouldn't consign them.

A seller's first and foremost responsibility is customer service. Allowing fraudulent behavior, sending rude responses to potential buyers, ignoring glaring listing issues and giving buyers the runaround of having to deal with a return when the problem could've been fixed up front - none of those fall into the category of good customer service.

Der.ek Oue.llette

I also have no dog in this fight, just relaying my experiences. I've purchased from Probstein several times in the past (not lately and always signed magazines) and actually got them for way below what I was willing to spend. I never felt like there was any shilling going on, but then again, if the shilling is going on from a few people that are selling through him, then maybe It didn't affect my purchases. If I ever felt like anyone I was trying to purchase from was shilling, I wouldn't be purchasing from them in the future. Buy from him, don't buy from him. You gotta do what you feel is right.

+1

I can't imagine telling a client, "I don't have time to pay attention to your issue, I'm busy dealing with much more important clients."

Over the years I have seen a number of provably bad items (like Autopens) offered by this seller and he has been notified. They never get taken down.

His business model is quite simple to replicate. It's a low rent auction house that undercuts "real" auction houses probably because he pays entry level workers to list, photograph and deal with the shipping. No in-house experts, no software licensing, no benefits... Stuff that established houses have to pay.

So, basically you are getting what you bargained for when dealing with him. Maybe a cheaper price. Definitely cut rate service.

i don't agree w/ some of the other posters who state that sellers have to be impeccable when running their business. Each seller like Rick (or PWCC) needs to make their own decision on what is justifiable for their time spent on it. It may make complete sense not to spend time on auctions that are only a few dollars. However, i think the shilling issue is different. Even if there is the so-called "benign neglect" going on, where the large consignors don't actively police their own auctions for shilling, this hurts their reputation. So it should still be worth their reputation to police these auctions that may have miniscule benefit to their bottom line.

I think there's a big difference between being impeccable and treating each sale as important. To each his own, but in this day and age, dealers are a dime a dozen and I for one return to the ones who give me the impression that they appreciate my business. Buyers have too many options to have to deal with sellers who don't have time for them.

De.rek Oue.llette

He was told with 5 or 6 days left in the auction for the Bill Russell autograph he was selling that it was the baseball player's auto and not the Celtics Hall of Fame basketball player which is how he had it listed....he responded that he concurred that it indeed was the baseball player, but he never changed the auction. You think that's justifiable?

Now that is a total lack of ethical behavior.
But I guess money is the most important thing to some people, more important than their reputation.

Sean - Sorry, but you fall down on this. In court we call this hearsay. You claim not to be his friend or have any other connection to him other than as a consignor. Yet you seem to infer that you are well versed on his business practices and know that he is "too busy" to change a listing due to monetary concerns. Mouthpiece??????

I can remove a listing in about one minute, yes sixty seconds. It also takes that amount of time to change the category and adjust the title. From what I viewed of his set up at The National, where I was also a table holder, it was not a sole proprietorship but a multi-person operation. I am sure one of his minions/employees could be charged with making a correction in a listing and it would cost him only a few dollars in salary paid to that person. Just speculation on my part (disclosure), but if I was running an operation that was listing hundreds or thousands of items each week on ebay my time would be better spent on other facets of the business rather than tappety tapping on the computer keyboard listing items. I am a much smaller operation and do all of the work myself.

I actually respect the fact that you wish to defend him. Sometimes the best defense is silence. For yourself or others. I ask you, can you put a price on integrity and reputation? As I said in the other thread and one of my sign posts on the road to happiness:

"INTEGRITY IS WHAT YOU DO WHEN NO ONE IS LOOKING!!!"

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