T206 Mullaney Dissected
 

Chris B (hey Chris) performed his dissecting expertise on the Mullaney overprint. I thought, even though it gets shown often, a few folks would like to see the individual processes. There is one more yellow pass to be figured out and it could get tricky :). For the record, I don't think I could ever do this myself. Not in a million years. Thanks again to Chris...much appreciated...

That's awesome! Thanks for sharing, Chris and Leon!

One question...why is one of the separated backs, a blank back? Is it because it is considered scrap in the first place?


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The blank represents the yellow pass not applied yet as it's not been figured out yet. The back is upside down to start with and I flipped it for this thread, to show the processes better.....

Thanks for the explanation and congrats on such a beautiful card!


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Mike--

You mean a card that is so UGLY, that it BECOMES BEAUTIFUL! LOL!

Very cool

Much props to Chris for some fine work !

Never get tired of that card Leon. It is very cool

Wow, that's amazing seeing all the backs isolated like that! Great card, Leon, and well done, Chris!

I hope the smileys are on lockdown because johnny's gonna go crazy when he sees this!

:eek: :D

It's even cooler now! Thanks Chris!

Thanks guys, its a definitely a fun card to study. Still trying to figure out the last piece.

So, Leon... is there a story of where you found this card? How long have you had it?

Amazing work Chris to break it down like that.That card is so interesting.

Chris,

Really amazing analysis, what tool(s) did you use to extract the layers?

Leon,

That is one crazy back. It's hard to look away.

Regards,
Marty

Mullaney
 

Leon,

That Card is way cool. It would be the pride of most collections if it had only One of the Backs shown. But with all those different Backs, WOW. Congrats on owning such a rare card.
Chris ,unbelievable work... Thanks for Sharing.

Regards
John P

omg....
 

GREAT JOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

wow!!!!

:eek::eek::eek::cool::cool:

This is truly one of my favorite scraps ....... this truly is amazing....great job CHRIS! Leon, this is the card I want:D

Best T206 print freak out there, and an unfathomable job by Chris to separate the colors. This should be an article in Old Cardboard.

Sick card.

Sick analysis.

Thanks for the kind words guys but being the owner is nothing more special than me paying a crazy price for it when it sold. Chris gets all of the accolades here. The thing that stood out to me upon the dissection is how clear the Young really is. I sort of thought it was going to be like a wet sheet transfer but it's clearly not. If anyone wants to read the original owners discussion on the board here are the 3 most pertinent threads. The first one (1) is the first time Tom (owner of it for 30 yrs) posted about it on the board almost 8 yrs ago. The next two are lively discussions when he was selling it. My very first guess on value was 300-500, before it was ever for sale. But admittedly that was just to get the ball rolling in the original thread. When the original owner said he wanted 45k for it everyone thought it was many times too high. In today's market I don't know if it would get there but it might get to half of it...who knows, but it's not for sale anyway...;)

(1) http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...mullaney+ghost


(2) http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...mullaney+ghost


(3) http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...mullaney+ghost

Great job chris...and just think...an anti t206 guy such as myself was the also ran on this one!!!

Any initial thoughts on the last yellow "piece". I think it is the bottom left corner of a card, so it appears upside down. Not sure what card it could be though. Went through all of them this morning. It probably is the yellow pass for some grass in the lower left corner of the front. That's my guess, but for who? Not sure.

***Whomever figures out the last yellow portion (and Chris agrees is correct) gets a Free Net54baseball T shirt.....and Chris is going to get one for doing the heavy lifting already....


Chris- Please PM your desire on size, color and address......

Hey Phil I did the same and no luck either. It could be yellow hidden under another color, making green, orange or behind blue or red.

There is also yellow on Young's face and a bit on the top of the card.

How about ...

Thebo
Blackburne
Breitenstein or
Berger

Those are my best guesses...

mullaney
 

this is amazing detective work, Chris!!!
wow!
Leon, you might want to give him 2 shirts. I suspect your card has now gone
up astronomically---as Johnny surreptitiously gets his money together!

congratulations.

all the best,
barry

Here are a few guesses:

Willis throwing
marquard follow through
overall hand at face
jimmy hart

This is tough!

I remember saving an image of this card when it was first posted by the original owner (I rarely save images of cards I don't own unless it's a really cool, special card. This one definitely fits the bill!).

Thanks for posting the links to those threads, Leon. It's interesting to go back through those old threads and see some of the early theories, many from collectors who still post here. Looks like the yellow patch also had people confused back then, too.

http://voot.pair.com/hoofaway/t206mystery2.jpg

Great back story from link 3 posted by Leon:

A higher resolution scan of the yellow area.

http://i.imgur.com/umfA7Ip.jpg

Chris,
Amazing work!

Is that a brown Old Mill?
JimB

The unknown yellow part is a deeper yellow, and almost appears to have dripped or smudged when it was originally applied (multiple strikes of yellow?).

sick scrap.....
 

Hey guys....I'm really excited about this thread.....glad I requested this to be done....You guys know I'm obsessed with scrap....and this card....I believe it to be a "rossetta" scrap.....gives us such insight to the process of the lithography...The Young is part of the family of back ghosts: Starr, becker, Weimer, Gibson chances....that definitely changes a WST ghost $100 card to an overprint 10 K card.....this has so many aspects of scrap.......the back ghost, Young , not to mention...


This card alone was part of one sheet , that if I saw the whole sheet, I think I would literally have a heart attack:o

these scraps are not crap:D


they are "mini" works of art....true little "snowflakes"...just exciting, t206 alternative cards.....rare....one of ones.....cards like these are centerpieces of a collection....you are truly blessed to have this card Leon...and I would n't want to let it go if I had it:).:D...


wow...

I 'm always shooting myself in the foot, and I don't want to "hype" these cards up, because they have now left my affordability....I was always the scrap/freak proponent, but that has kinds back fired on me..,i'm happy to see collectors enjoy them the way I do..collectors finally realize the "coolness" of these little wonders......so aesthetically pleasing...(to me at least)...and I see them not stopping.....just "unearthing" new ones....hidden gem amonst common and hofers....the excitement of finding a brown old mill or a uppy......the excitement of seeing a "colorless" card on ebay, and its a new yellow brown....new examples/types of the good ones....I gotta stop....before I have a scrap seizure..:o:D


as everyone here knows, I love my cards and seeing these cool ones....please post/share any here if youd like(not to hijack:))

if I may, dissect the "auction estimates id say": to answer Leons question...


if this card was sold as SEVEN INDIVIDUAL SCRAPS.....Goodwin prices I'm going to take a stab....I hate putting an estimate on any of these, but there usually is nothing to compare to when you get this unique or rare...just what two collectors are willing to pay for something.....you Bastards better hope I don't win the lottery, I'm coming for your scrap:D

please dissect my Bigger auction house guestimate...

1) four back upside down Piedmont 350- 5- 7 K ???

2) EPDG scrap- I have never seen more than a handful ever- 3k- 5K ???

3) EPDG uppy 2 back scrap I have never seen one until now- 7 K ??

4) BRown OM - 10 K- 15 K ? less than a dozen known?? not sure about these estimates

5) Upside down overprinted Cy Young 2 part ghost- 15 K - 20 K

6) Upside down negative yellow layer young ghost Blank Back- 5-8K

7) Blank Back Mullaney-2- 3 K




that is on the highest ends I would estimate......do the math:eek:


these estimates would be for each individual scrap errors if they were separate(7) individual cards...


lets have some fun...throw out your estimates

My best guess is the yellow pass on the back is a partial Wagner.

Johnny, you get all giddy about this stuff, it's great!! It's always nice to see passion in the hobby.
As much as I would like a realized price based on individual prices I don't think there is any way to do that with this kind of scrap. It has to be taken in it's totality. If someone were to give it to me for our auction I would give them an estimate of 20k+.....I think there are enough well heeled collectors to get to that point fairly safely in today's environment. Anything after that would be anyone's guess.....then too, maybe it would be like some other recent cards that don't get close to the auction estimate? It would be fun to watch.

I think it would safely be worth 15-20K to any number of collectors...but the real interest would be how far those last two guys would take it. It's probably a you-only-get-one-chance-to-get kind of card, so it might sell for quite a bit more than 20K.

And I think if you really want to see what's going on on the back, you first need to drop some acid.;)

I think Jamie Hull was onto something with this post about the unknown yellow pass possibly being from the horizontal Mullin. I was not able to do this perfectly, as I don't have the skills of a pro like Chris, but maybe this leads to something...

The other yellow is Mullin Horizontal. The Yellow does the grass and the glove.

I was getting all the evidence I needed when I was writing my post. So someone else already answered when I was doing that.

Yup, that's it.

T206 Mullaney Dissected
 

I couldn't get it to fit without covering the glove but that was the closest guess. I'll try again, thanks guys.

This is lined up a little bit better...

Wouldn't the glove (brown) be added last? Thus you can cover it.

Leon....ang guys...
 

great sleuth work! please don't sell this card unless you trade to me leon:D

that's another error! # 8! :)

I know this card would top and go 30 K + easily.....

Mullin works, there is yellow under the glove and face, likely covered up with brown & buff. Leon, I think that's it. :cool:

Added some yellow shading to bottom (top) of the Young yellow layer

http://i.imgur.com/QdxYG2l.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/vOj6n19.gif

That is an awesome gif.

Another amazing job Chris !!! I think this card should be on the next T-shirt... The front on the front and the back on the back!

Amazing Chris- you should get a Net54 round of applause!

+1 (btw, we'll have to figure out who wins the shirt??)

http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/ha...y-emoticon.gif

Sweet! Good job, Chris :eek:

Chris...
 

Tip 'o the hat to you, sir!!

Great job Chris, Leon you should add that GIF to the B&L auction listing. ;)

Chris did a great job separating those backs. Does anyone have a guess how that back was printed? Did it start out as an Old Mill scrap, and then it was used by the printers to line up the other backs and fronts?

And also, what is a GIF?

GIF stands for Graphics Interchange Format; it's an animation file format that stores multiple still images (frames) and a frame rate.

Daryl, thank you. I won't pretend to understand everything you said, but I get the idea. :)

It has something to do with computers!:o

Poll....
 

If you could pick one of the 8 errors on the back only, what would you take?????:confused:

me

# 1- the Young ghost

#2- brown om

Those two Johnny,

The Brown OM.
I've always wanted one.

I worked for an offset printing company for many years and believe that the back of the card was part of a full sheet that was used for Make-Ready purposes for the printing press. The pressman would get the press setup and run several sheets of paper through the press to prepare the press for the actual product. http://graphicdesign.about.com/od/pr...make_ready.htm

Seeing how there are several different images on the back of this card, this sheet was "recycled" and used several times, rather than using all new paper for the make-ready process (no reason to use new paper when you can just reuse the scrap). There would have been more than one sheet used for this process and this one must have gotten mixed in with the actual press sheets or could have been used as a cover sheet for the cutters while trimming. Seeing how the front of the card looks to have a good appearance, my guess is that this make-ready sheet was accidentally mixed into the good cards. Most of the cards were probably caught by a packaging employee and this one slipped through somehow.

I would be curious to know what "other" products were printed at the same time as these cards, at the same company, using the same printing press or a sister printing press that could have possibly shared the same make-ready sheets. If we knew of other items that were printed at the same time, there could possibly be this same type of "error" on other products.

Just my thoughts.............

Also, the front side of this card appears to have some additional "yellow ink" on the lower left side, under the players foot. Does it appear to be that way through a loupe? Is this yellow ink a solid or does it have half-tone dots? I'm just curios if the front of the sheet was used as a make-ready for something other than a ball card.

Just like this card was obviously used as a Make-Ready sheet for a different printed product:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/370468796497...84.m1423.l2649

Great post Ted. There are a few other product/jobs/advert test runs using leftoverT206 sheets. Maybe these T206s were tested on these discarded sheets.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5486/9...a9b8c8db_c.jpg
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3675/9...c574b21a_c.jpg

Thanks Chris. The sheets were definitely used for make-ready on other products. I wonder if there are other products that were printed that have a "baseball" error on it, but a different collector of a different product does not know what it is. It is very obvious that the Bitters product was printed at the same time, at the same factory and possibly on the same printing press.

Ted....
 

Welcome!! another print expert!....I collect these scrap to abandon....your theory, id say is almost 100 percent correct, except these were smuggled home, as they weren't inserted into the actual product(hence their handcut)....


we really welcome printers opinions....these scraps have become highly coveted, and EXTREMELY unique and alternative T206 rarity collecting...


Peace


johnny

Here is a large pic of the front. I just hope that if anything else is found, Johnny (Hi Johnny) doesn't jump the tracks.:eek: Very large scan on purpose....

http://luckeycards.com/pt206mullayf600dpi.jpg

That would be my guess since it is a brown Old Mill and all brown Old Mills were hand cut/probably scrap.
JimB

Thanks for the large scan Leon.

The yellow below his foot and the yellow that is shown on the white border is obviously something different. With the yellow dots on the right border having a straight edge on the left side, this has to be another product. This card (make-ready sheet) appears to have run through a yellow plate alone, prior to printing the four colors for the actual card. What they could be is beyond me and will be very difficult to tell.

If you could place the card on a light table, looking through a loupe and trace out the yellow areas on a separate piece of paper, that might help see what it looks like.

Hey Ted
Thanks again for all of the input. I don't see me going too much further with it. Suffice it to say the back has been pretty well figured out. The front blotches will remain a mystery but I do appreciate the hypothesis set forth ......

And to answer one of the questions as to which is your favorite part of the back, I will go with the Young, then the double EPDG...I have never really been a brown OM fan.....

Thanks Johnny.

I'm not real sure about the hand cutting of the cards, since these would have been in stacks of sheets and possibly cut using this type of antique paper cutter. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzONshsEiTE

When I worked in offset sheetfed printing the cutters were like this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tm_2Cmb9iPk Large stacks of printed sheets being cut to remove the bleeds and make the white borders. The computerized machines would keep the miscuts to a minimal, while the old machines would allow for "out of center" cuts.

(edit) and please don't feel that I don't think that some were hand cut. I am sure that happened, since I did the same thing myself! I do also believe that the rarity of these cards will become highly coveted. These cards are the very first printed and almost all would have been destroyed by the printer. Good luck with these cards, they are very unique in my opinion. Being a former printer, I have a love for misprints and printing errors.

Ted...
 

you just became my new friend;)

Great choice Leon....that was mine also:)

That new cutter is really nice. The older ones were similar, but without the side tables. And our pusher blocks were just chunks of 2x4.

The cutters were pretty much the only machine they didn't let me run.

Nice to see another printing guy, especially one with a lot more years in than I have. :D

Steve B

This is an awesome thread!!

Great work Chris, it is amazing what you can do with your computer.

This card is one of my all time favorite T206's, and has been since the first time I saw it. It is thrilling to see it separated like that. After a Wagner, I would take this card over any other T206 out there (if I were a millionaire and Leon was selling it :D). This card is a gem and truly unique, and while it's true that any card is only worth what someone will pay for it, I think this card is worth six figures (just my opinion :)).

Sincerely, Clayton

Amazing work Chris!

hmmmmmmmmmm....
 

Old El Principe De Piedmont:)

btw....
 

is there any way to tell which was applied first??? did it start out as the brown om sheet??? or of course bb first, but what was it after...the young ghost??..:confused: piedmont 350 or brown om or ghost???:D epdg is not possible(except for this beauty)......what was struck first.....???

:confused::D

In hand it might be possible to tell the order of the layers. Probably not all, but a few should be possible.

It's really difficult from a scan.

My best guess from the closeup scans
brown OM
Young - brown and yellow
Mullin
Both Epdg
Piedmont



Steve B

Great guess Steve....
 

what a sheet this must have been.....where are the rest????:confused:

imagine finding a few sister cards??

:eek: