1926 Spalding Champions Ruth on ebay?
 

Either PSA has screwed up and encapsulated the wrong card in the flip (most likely) or the seller is using a flip in a fake holder (or there is a new variation of this card that I wasn't aware of), but be cautious of this 1926 Spalding Champions Ruth on ebay: Link

For reference, here is the Spalding Champions Ruth that I am used to (which I no longer own).

That looks like a page out of a Reach or Spalding guide. It's not even a card. That's a GIANT screw up by PSA considering it's 3-4X the size of a Spalding Champions card.

There's no way PSA graded that. It's got to be a resealed holder.

agree

resealed holder from what type of card? and what about the flip?

I don't know about that. I scanned the barcode via Zbar for the iphone, and the bar code is good. The cert # is also good. It's always possible that the seller cracked out a genuine Spalding Ruth (or bought those cracked out ones from ebay/craigslist) or course.

It's an oversize holder, so it's either a mistake or some large card cracked out.

Steve B

Look at what ELSE this seller has listed. Two other Ruth's which are the same size and which he says are from a Spalding Guide. He uses this Ruth as an example of one that PSA has graded and how, since they have graded this one that they will probably soon be grading these types of pages removed from magazines. He says when they start doing that then THESE will go up in value.

David

It's definitely an oversized holder. Look at the corners, they are rounded like the type a T3 comes in. That is a PSA mistake, not a crack out. The paper insert wouldn't even be the right size.

I believe the PSA flips are all the standard/same size. With the lack of textual continuity on the back of the card, there's no way PSA graded it. Also, the fact that it's not in any price guide is going to automatically disqualify it from being in a PSA holder. Either the seller or someone else cracked an oversized PSA holder and put in the picture of Ruth cut out of a Spalding baseball guide along with a label from a standard sized holder that once held a legit 1926 Spalding Champions (Sports Co. of America) Ruth.

The back discusses the 1924 season as "last year:", so the date appears to be from 1925.

Not only is the label the wrong card (if it is a card), but the wrong year.

The cert # does match 1926 Ruth Spalding.

It is definitely cut from something. The type at the bottom on the reverse is cut off where the page has been trimmed.

it is cut from a spalding guide...this is not in question i don't believe. the issue is that psa is supposedly not grading these...yet this appears to be psa graded.

Yet, there's no way that was really graded by PSA.

Well whomever did entomb that thing...did a nice job!

Yep...let's hope PSA never does decide to entomb cutouts...that would be disastrous for the publication collectors. :(

I think the card hobby is already disastrous for publications :(.

what about this one?
 

http://www.gregbussineauauctions.com...4782_f_lg.jpeg
http://www.gregbussineauauctions.com...4782_b_lg.jpeg

It looks like psa is expanding their horizons.

Par for the course. If someone will pay for it eventually anything will be graded. Hey all you player registry collectors line up. Did you know that each Transogram box actually came with "2" collector's cards. :)

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s...psfc4bbe9a.jpg

I thought this was a joke but I guess the joke is on us. A grade of 9 on a hand cut sporting news magazine cut. I do think the cut is a grade better than the T206 Wagner. What is this coming to?

As Johnny used to say: "I did not know that."

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibit...hnny%20PCs.jpg

as one malachi brother once said to the other..."let the pigeons loose!"

"That's right Ray, that's the beauty of the registry. If you slab it, they will buy. Matter of fact they'll come out of the cornfields and line up for it."

I might not have an issue grading a cut out as a cut out if that is what someone really wants to pay for (and it's labeled as a cut out). Putting the graded cut out into any kind or registry sounds kind of crazy. I guess there could be a cut out registry. :confused:

I agree with Leon
 

If they wish to slab this junk fine but they should not be adding it to the registry. Id love to hear the justification though when they have been unwilling to slab uncatalogued or sometimes even rare catalogued cards, yet for someone they will put scraps of magazines etc in slabs. Heck I cant even get them to grade my 1982 John Elway minor league card. They've N9 it 3 times know, yet its in the pop report.

So is this a legitimate PSA slab?? I don't think they should slab cutouts unless they were meant to be cut out...like the stamps from the newspaper comic section. But out of a magazine, or book? No way!

So they're doing this huh?

Looks like the price of beater publication lots just went up.

:D

On another site there was a thread about PSA grading the Ryan cut out and other similar cut outs. Setting a bad precedent IMO :confused:

If that "thing" is actually graded by PSA, it should say Hand-Cut on the label and only be labeled as authentic. Why is it some items that are hand-cut they will give a grade to and others they won't? It makes no sense.

The policy makes sense
 

its the implementation that is screwed up. Hand cut cards are only to be graded if the defined border is completely present. For cards with out a border they must meet the industry standard size for the issue. The problem is they often stray and end up grading some cards with out all of the border present or a similar issue which helps lead to a lot of confusion. Also the card needed to be only issued or predominantly issued in hand cut format.

Ok, I could buy that Glyn. If PSA grades a Bazooka card cut from a box that was meant to be a card, fine give it a grade if the entire boarder shows. But grading a cut from a magazine is silly.

I agree 100%
 

It is garbage. However if their is a demand for it then I really don't mind them doing it. They should NEVER include in card registry sets though as they are not cards.

Venting while on pain meds not a good idea. Plus, I didn't have my full name in the post.

David Smith

See above post.

David

David...I agree this is total CRAP...but it is PSA and they are whore-ish!

As many mistakes as PSA already mistakes...I can't imagine it being any easier grading magazine cutouts...how can they possibly be aware of all the vintage magazines/yearbooks/scorecards...or will they just stick to sporting news?

David...why did you delete all that? It was good...and now my post makes me look like the "unstable" one!!!!!!

:):):)

Ouch. It looks like the seller was able to sell one of his magazine cutouts for nearly $200: Link

Unless the item was meant to be a card to be removed from the publication; then I can see slabbing it just like a strip card.

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibit...x%20Snider.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibit...s%20Wagner.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibit...etin%20Fox.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibit...amp%20Ruth.jpg

lookee here
 

For those of you interested, you can try and outbid the $500 opener on that '66 Sporting News Ryan--you'll need it for the registry:

http://www.gregbussineauauctions.com...ventoryid=8659

According to the PSA site there are only 5 graded, remarkably all 9s (gosh, whoever cut those out of that magazine/newspaper 47 years ago sure knew what they were doing and had the foresight to keep them pristine). Hard to think any more will ever surface either. Me, I'm holding out for the High School Yearbook picture in PSA 9--the 10th grade pic is the toughest of the four, and is rarely found in high grade because of the usual marks from where his buddies wrote their sophomoric comments.

Amazingly, that thing has a bid. Might need to go out and buy some old magazines and newspapers now...

For Pete Ullman,

I don't remember exactly what I wrote earlier but it went something like this:

I have only one graded card in my collection so graded cards are obviously NOT my thing. However, if PSA is starting to grade pictures cut out of magazines then I think it is ridiculous and just shows how greedy they are and how they are falling (failing) in credibility.

I was under the impression that TPG companies were in existence to AUTHENTICATE actual cards. If they are/were going to authenticate (or grade) an entire complete magazine I have no problem with that. But grading a picture cut out of that magazine (not an actual insert), then that is NUTS!!!!

Does that mean I can draw a picture of Babe Ruth with a Crayon and they will grade that too? How about if I cut it in half, can I have both pieces graded?

Heck, why stop there? Why not grade reprint cards? If it doesn't stop there then can I just take a picture of or photocopy a reprint card and send it in for grading?

I think I could make a bundle if that were to happen. I could just get a T 206 Wagner reprint, scan it on my scanner, print it out, cut it out and send it in for grading.

No, my impression was that TPG's were in existence to authenticate REAL CARDS!!!! However, if they are going to grade pictures cut out of magazines or newspapers but NOT grade REAL CARDS that might be trimmed, hand cut, recolored or somehow otherwise damaged, defaced or altered then what is the purpose of TPG's?

Also, if a TPG is going to grade cut outs of magazines, WHY would any serious collector want to do business with that company? I have a T 206 Cobb bat off shoulder (as an example). Why would I want to send that card in to get graded when the same person who grades my card might also be grading a picture cut out of a magazine.

The two might have been made in the same year HOWEVER the picture might have just been cut out of the magazine last week. Why should it get graded a 9 or 10 when if I trimmed my Cobb to look better it either wouldn't get graded or get an "A" for authentic?

I think this whole thing is just nuts if it is really happening and I have to question a company that does this and people who continue to do business with that company.

David Smith

Yes, that is my real name.

I think most companies will grade reprints as long as they're commercially made and sent in as reprints. I've seen a few Wagner reprints graded.

No that Grading a reprint makes much sense.

Grading magazine cutouts is just silly.

Now where are those 1983 Boston Herald sox stamp cutouts I kept?

Steve B

Looks like the incorrectly holdered 1926 Spalding Champions Ruth has sold to some unsuspecting buyer who has already left positive feedback: Link

tis the season!

So was this slabbed by PSA or not?

sure looks that way.

This is just a big mess imo......And unfortunately I have a feeling a collector will end up getting duped out of good money and will be left with a bad taste in their mouth. That being said the seller actually did pretty good on the description saying it was cut from a book. So I guess if someone wants to pay $400 for a blatant cut out from a book, which was never intended to be cut out, then they can do it. Why can't I find these people when I auction stuff?

So, how long until the '54 Topps cards inserted into the first year of Sports Illustrated are deemed collectible, and start showing up in PSA slabs? I never knew these existed until I got the latest issue of Old Cardboard. Apparently the August 23, 1954 issue (#2) had the complete New York Yankees team, including the Commerce Comet.

"That's right, kids. There's never been a 1954 Topps Mickey Mantle...until now! Straight from the pages of Sports Illustrated!"

Somebody is already selling reprints of the black and white "cards" for $9.95 a pop.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1954-Yankees...-/200402088172

So, not only will the cut out cards be an issue, but the reprints as well.

:mad:

atleast those inserts in the 54' SI are "cards"...and they already are collectible.

not quite apples to apples in this comparison, IMO.

There has been something of a surprising turn of events in this situation of the original thread. I have once again attached the front and back scans of this "card" in the OP, and apologies for that. What happened is that I actually found the buyer who purchased this from ebay. It so happens that he recently purchased another Ruth card from me, and I noticed that his feedback number matched the feedback number of the buyer of the Spalding Ruth, so I sent him an email and asked him if he was the buyer of it. He said that he was, and I informed him that I believed that PSA holdered the incorrect card, and what he had was simply a page from a Spalding Reach baseball guide. The buyer then opened a case on ebay, and also contacted PSA with this information.

Well, PSA Research came back and said that the item he had was correctly a 1926 Spalding Champion Babe Ruth card (stats back), and the scan that I showed in post #2 in this thread was a card with a mislabeled flip. It shouldn't be a "Stats back" variation, but a "1926 copyright" variation.

I contacted PSA today, and spoke with the PSA rep who worked w/ the buyer. I gave her the story that that card was from a baseball guide, and could not be from the Spalding Champion set, as I emailed her other examples from that set, and they look nothing like what the buyer had.

So basically, what PSA wants now is more information. For the scans provided below, does anyone know with certainty which baseball guide that is from? If anyone has a picture of the cover and even better a picture of that page still in the book, would be great. Thanks again!

So you showed them the real card with the same exact flip as the abomination and they want YOU to do more research. How about they made a mistake and should fix it?

I think that we are seeing the last stand for TPG's. People are getting tired of the games played and the inaccurate grading of high-end cards. This goes along with the crooks that are able to carefully crack cases open and insert fake flips or fake cards. I truly enjoy card collecting but the issues out in the hobby will make it difficult for us to gain new people into the hobby. There will be fewer and fewer kids looking to take part in this as time goes on. I guess TPG's are like the big telco companies who use the motto "we suck less" and use this to try and gain your business over the competitors. This puts the hobby in a place that may get people to stop paying to get their cards graded. I am hoping we can make it through the BS that TPG's have brought into the hobby. Graded magazine cuts? Wow I hope to get a PSA 10 if I can only find a sharp pair of scissors.

i do not have the guides, but it is either the 1925 spalding or reach guide. the "stats" are not stats, but an incomplete review of different subjects, it does not even start with a sentence and does not end with one, the back has no relation to the front, if broken out it would be paper, not a card. this should not be that hard for a major company whose business it is to grade cards. i think these are ridiculous, but to each his own.

Heh...the back of the card starts with "and"...what more proof do they need that this is cut from a book? :rolleyes:

Personally, I don't see this..."last stand" scenario at all. The rest...I see!

Yea, the problem is PSA said they've already done their research, and their research shows that item is correctly holdered. So I need to provide evidence to overturn this. I can't even begin to imagine what research they did, but my only guess is that they're saying that page is something from a 1926 Spalding promo that is different the 1926 Spalding Champion set, hence the "stats back" variation.

Proof Enough?
 

Their own website shows a different card on their "facts" site. Shouldn't this be proof enough:

http://www.psacardfacts.com/CardDetail.aspx?item=561667

Robert S

Good point. I'll email that to the PSA rep. Thanks!

I searched my guides - there is no such Ruth image in Spalding guides (1920-1929). I don't have a 1925 Reach guide but the image below from the 1924 Reach guide is the same photo that was slabbed (with a different caption).

Comical! Abomination is exactly what this is!

Thanks! I'll send this to PSA.

Please let us know what they say.

Besides publishing a yearly guide, Spalding also issued Spalding's Official Baseball Record between 1908 and 1924. These were similar in style and size to their other annual. Since the Babe Ruth photo appears to be from a 1924 guide (the 1923 season is discussed on the back page), maybe that is the source of the photo. This is purely a guess on my part, just another place to look.

And let me go on record and say that both the Nolan Ryan clipping and this Babe Ruth plate are an outrage, and shame on the grading company for slabbing them. Sometimes you just have to reject something as not gradeable. I know there are some who disagree.

Edited to say I now realize the plate is later than 1924, so it could not be from the record book. My bad. But it still could be from a publication other than the better known yearly guides.

another Nolan Ryan to consider (I'm guessing this ad ran in a variety of different periodicals and over time, so that you back collectors have your work "cut out" for you :) ):

http://photos.imageevent.com/imoverh...31_%202013.jpghttp://i.ebayimg.com/t/1976-Acme-Cow...Snq66/$_57.JPG

I have spoken to PSA regarding this particular issue. They have assured me no more will be graded and it was a mistake on the graders part to allow these to be graded originally.

Wow...just wow.

I'm sorry
 

I don't see the Problem with the Nolan Ryan item the way it is slabbed. It is an ad and was hand cut. Now, as Leon would say, it is up to the buyer to determine whether he or she wants that item. And with some of the passionate Ryan collectors I have met or heard about over the years, why not? Is the item from 1973? Is it accurately described? If the answer is yes on both counts, why object. This is not fraud and not misrepresented.


Rich

They will not slab a skinned Old Judge card, but they will slab a picture of Nolan Ryan snipped out of a 1973 Sports Illustrated magazine??? Wait a minute, PSA calls this one a mistake, but that 1923 Ruth is apparently A-OK....WTF is going on at PSA?

It's called human beings. Card graders have to make these decisions all the time and while we used to make fun of people such as PRO for doing things like this, maybe in retrospect, they were ahead of their times.

Yes skinned Old Judges should be graded and notated as such as well. So should the 1984 Topps Nestle's cards of the full set which were professionaly cut back in the 1980's. Those are real cards and should be in holders.

As a matter of fact, the whole concept of "Sheet-Cut" cards needs to be changed at this point. If we've gone this far, why not allow for the OPC sheet cut hockey cards to be graded or anything else. Cards came from sheets, so grade em.

I think it can only help collectors long term

Rich

Thanks guys for all the wonderful info and especially on the 66 nolan ryan.
Lets just say, the one i had got, well is now sold
Someone is enjoying it for their registry set.

I just wanted to give an update to this. I followed up with PSA mid-last week, and was informed that the issue had been transferred to the customer service manager at PSA, and that going forward, PSA would be working with the buyer of the Spalding card for this issue. I sent an email to the buyer, asking if PSA had contacted him, and he said that they had, and that he was asked to send his card to PSA, where they would examine it, and he would send it in. Thanks again to everyone who helped on this issue!