EXPOSING Net54 member BUBBLEBATHGIRL
 

I want to start off by saying that this isn't something I normally do. I'm on these threads like many of you to share my collections, my knowledge of certain players, sets, etc and to speak with like-minded people about our similar passion.
However, from time to time, I have to park aside the friendly posts to expose certain individuals that merit exposure.

This is the case with net54 member "bubblebathgirl"

For those of you that don't already know. BBG has done a lot of damage on the CU forum by complaining to the mods and subsequently getting many good members banned.

At first glance, the bans seem legit as the poster might write an angry post that flirts or breaks the forum rules. But, looking into it in more detail, it's quite clear that the poster has hit their tolerance level with this member.

For me, this all started with a thread where BBG was looking to sell wrappers to collectors that might want to collect them. After some concern from many members, he agreed to mark them with an X for re-sale (which we all seemed to agree on). But then, we found this

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1978-TOPPS-B...p2047675.l2557

When he was confronted, he ignored all relevant questions regarding our obvious concerns - the most obvious question being "why would you sell the wrappers and gum?" Instead of doing the right thing and answering our questions, he began a pattern of ignoring all relevant questions pertaining our concerns, cherry picking the safe questions and answering those in great detail, and writing on other posts as if nothing ever happened.
This, of course, infuriated most of us and led to posts that ended up getting many banned temporarily and even permanently from CU. He, of course, led this charge of banning and suspending by PMing the mods (which I'm sure he will do here as well)

Most recently, he has been banned from CU for attacking the credibility of one of our best members (which is quite ironic).

This, of course, came after we challenged his sale price of a sealed case of 79 Topps BB on the BST forum. Most notably, he discredited others for selling similar items and claiming their prices were too high. But, now that he's selling a similar item, it commands an absurd premium which balloons a $15K case to $25K.

The exchange on that thread is why he's been banned from CU and is now trying to sell this case on net54.

I'm writing this post because I feel the need to inform members of his actions so that they can make their own judgments. I'm also writing this to present BBG with yet another opportunity to confront all of our relevant questions.

In a hobby that's plagued with resealers, forgeries, re-slabs, etc... It's important to know your motives for selling these items, and your motives for ignoring most of us when you feel the need to. You attack members when you see fit and ignore when we make sense.

Simply put, If you're looking to sell a case of 79 topps bb on these forums for $25K, it's in your best interest to clean up your reputation first.

Answer our questions, don't treat us like fools, gain our respect back....and perhaps you will be embraced again here and on other forums as well. If you made mistakes, just admit to them and watch how quickly we will let all of this pass.

I hope to finally see a response this.

Thanks

***In the interest of not getting banned from CU again and keeping my promise to the mods there, I will not post links to the threads.
Also, some may argue that this member should be ignored which I don't agree - especially when someone potentially is willing to give up a hefty sum of $$ to someone with a tarnished reputation. If you still want to buy from this member, at least you have been warned by a fellow member first***

I remember the mess with the wax wrappers, gum and boxes. It was discussed here on Net54 as well (beginning in post #139)...

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=162605

Do you have any reason to believe the '79 cello case has has been tampered with? If not, it's his case and he can ask whatever ridiculous price he wants, but I don't think he's going to find a sucker to pay that amount.

The main thing I took away from your story is that there is a guy calling himself "bubblebathgirl".

That's just weird.

I have no reason to believe it's been tampered with. That item raised eyebrows due to him changing his price. He asked for $20k... Someone on the board offers it and he changed the price to $25k. That member was obviously upset as a result. Questions were raised and he, of course, ignores them which then upsets us all.
regarding asking price, Its true he can ask for any price. I mention this item because he bashed others for trying to sell similar items for a high price. Now that he owns the same item, he wants a premium. When confronted by another member for this hypocrisy...again ignored.

The point is an intelligent debate with this member is impossible

Edited to add: It took some research, but I found the thread on CU...

http://forums.collectors.com/message...23&STARTPAGE=1

I knew I would need these some day.

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/...psb044aa26.jpg
http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/...ps048414f8.jpg
http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/...pse00d336b.jpg
http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/...ps28c21fb0.jpg
http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/...ps3713ba4a.jpg
http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/...psfc402549.jpg
http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/...psa01380e0.jpg
http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/...ps5ab57ebb.jpg
http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2e77f7d9.jpg
http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/...ps65eae758.jpg
http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/...pse9e42f24.jpg
http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/...ps87337207.jpg
http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/...ps9b937c30.jpg
http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/...ps9aa8c7f2.jpg

first off who in there right mind would EVER pay 15k+ for a case of 1979 topps baseball? now if it was 1979 topps hockey i can understand kinda but not baseball when the best rc is ozzie smith. second this guy will have to watch what he says on this forum because we have such great people who run this sight that wont put up with the bullcrap.

I'll sell you the gum, but don't eat it...:)...

I would assume that most people in the market for this case already know Paul's saga. I'll admit I am not a fan of Paul due to some of his antics and actions, but with that said:

1. Paul has never ripped someone off, himself, that I know of.
2. The 79' case is legit.
3. People can ask whatever price they please for something they own. He'll either get that price or he won't.

It is annoying that Paul has forever refused to address the fact he sold that lot without marking the packs and it is evident from his past that he lacks certain social skills, but considering this post is in response to his BST offering here I would safe guessing that if a 79' cello case is worth $20k+ to you; a 79' cello case is what you will recieve.

Sean, why wouldn't you just crop out Stown's tabs instead of blacking them out?

Cool thread.

So you are saying that he has successfully exposed terrible moderators?

I've never ripped people off but if I was a scumbag I'm sure people wouldn't deal with me on principle.

I pulled these from bubblebathgirl's photobucket and rehosted. He blacked them out not me.

That's a fair opinion, but I don't believe it is right to torpedo someone's sale because that person isn't well liked. This thread is clearly in response his his sealed case in the B/S/T. The only pertinent information would be evidence that a buyer would not securely recieve what they are expecting, in which case there isn't a lot of evidence to prove that. I don't disagree with your assessment of Paul, I don't like him personally either, but my opinion of him personally does not revoke his right to make a sale unless I have reason to think a buyer would get ripped off.

I dont know BBG but I have liked some of his post in the past but after the whole ebay thing all I could take away was anyone willing to include old gum with a box and wrappers knows full well that in all likelihood these will end up being purchased for the purpose of resealing packs and that is a shame.

As other have said throw away the gum and mark the packs and you would have gained some respect from many member here and over on CU but you choose to add to what is already a problem in the hobby. IMO that says a lot about your character.

This thread is just showing his shenanigans. Some people knock on the price but people always do that when things are absurdly priced. I do not believe anyone is saying outright "do not buy from him" - I think the message is more look what his history contains - do you still want to deal with him?

I might be the only one
 

wouldn't be the first time - but I don't think this thread is appropriate - certainly as it's titled. While the seller might be expected to understand that people might utilize the wrappers WITH gum to some nefarious end - that's perhaps an issue of morals - there's really nothing wrong with selling them. Would it be OK to sell a single wrapper and single stick of gum? I collect some things that I want ALL of the original components in as original of a condition I can find them in as a compliment to my cards. I probably wouldn't want the "X" on one of the elements. There have been threads about flips and cases here as well that raise the same issues - it's about one's freedom to sell allowable items in a free marketplace. If it's that BBG is trying to sell an unopened case for too much money on the BST- it sounds as if you have an axe to grind - as that's really none of your business either. I'm probably gonna be sorry I posted this - but like much of my actions - I really can't help myself :(

It's impossible to make something foolproof
as fools are so inventive..............

I am just curious as to why its not ok to mark up old 30's-60's wax but ok to deface those? I just am not finding merit in this thread to slam someone based on really nothing. I get the whole "some fraudster may reseal them" but the seller is not offering them up for that and we can't hang the guy because no wrong has been done. Seems like he is trying to recoup some money from the box he busted. Just my $.02

How could anyone, unless you live in a fantasy world, deny that he is selling these things for the EXPRESS PURPOSE of scammers using them to rip people off????!!!!!! Come on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I disagree. It would be like me taking out an ad in the paper that says. "For Sale: Meth Ingredients." To sell the ingredients individually (or even together) is not illegal - kind of like the wrappers, gum and box. But what’s done with them is illegal. To sell wax wrappers, gum and an empty box knowing what somebody is more than likely to do with them is immoral, just like selling meth ingredients knowing what somebody is going to do with them. What if it were your kid that cooked the meth and OD? Would your opinion change? Would you still say it's my right to sell the ingredients and put the onus on your kid, or do you think I should share in the responsibility for selling your kid the ingredients in the first place?

Maybe it’s a bad analogy, but I think you get the point which is sometimes the seller has to assume some of the responsibility when they have a pretty good idea that what they’re selling is not going to be used for a purpose that is good.

Andrew, I could agree with you but...

BBG went from selling the wrappers for approx. $.25 to selling wrappers/gum/box. Let's get crazy and say the box is worth $50 (it's not), and he now believes the wrappers are worth $2. That means he now values 35 year old gum at over $2 a piece.

I'm sorry, he knew who his target market was and he had no problem selling his reputation along as part of the package.

First off...
You shouldn't be sorry for posting...that's why we are all here. We may not agree but that's the beauty of the forum in the hands of the right people. :)

The point of my thread is to inform everyone of his questionable history so that you can make decisions based on this info.

Let's just say I was selling a card with an offer price of $10,000. You like the card and offer me full asking price of $10,000. Once I notice you're interested in it, I raise the offer price to $14,000. How would you feel? Then, when you ask me why, I completely ignore you. Again, how do you feel?

My point here isn't the case of 79 BB specifically, it's his lack of respect for other members, complaining to mods to get rid of good members, writing hypocritical posts that only benefit him regarding value on unopened material, ignoring relevant questions, etc.

If he finds a buyer, then go for it. But at least the buyer would've known all of this info and made his decision having been well informed.

Regarding the gum, I'm hard-pressed to think of any reason why someone would want to buy old gum in the original box with the wrappers if it wasn't for the wrong reasons. Lets be realistic, who collects gum?

With all that said, if he was at least willing to answer the question with your hypothetical answer (for example), I would be willing to accept it and I'm sure some others as well. But the fact that he ignores it continues to be, IMO, the biggest problem.

Just thinking about some guy who's named himself BubbleBathGirl sitting around meticulously opening up packs of 1978 baseball cards gives me the creeps (in a "Silence of the Lambs" kinda way...)...The whole situation is freakishly wrong on many different levels...

Bbg
 

You mean to tell me that some moron offered to buy that case for $20 thousand?

I can understand both sides of the discussion regarding the wrappers, so I really don't want to go there.

However...

Can someone...anyone...tell me what purpose 35 year old gum would have? Other than adding a false element of realism to a resealed pack, of course.

In my opinion, selling the wrappers and the gum is along the same lines as selling cracked open PSA slabs, along with their paper flips.

In either scenario, the buyer will almost certainly put something inside, seal it back up, and try to pass it off as the genuine article.

In this particular case, the seller is making things breathtakingly easy for fraudsters. Making a transaction that is extremely likely to increase the amount of fraud within the hobby is an absolutely shameless act.

Best Regards,

Eric

Remember they call that the P.T. Barnum Syndrome.:eek::eek:

I doubt it.

Bush doctrine as applied to baseball cards.

So someone starts a thread entitled, EXPOSING Net54 member BUBBLEBATHGIRL and it ends up being about baseball cards? Bummer.:mad:

Weapons of mass gum and wrapper destruction?

Here ya go!

Thanks! :)

let's not forget the blue latex gloves he wears when opening said packs.

+500 creepiness factor hit points.

Wrappers
 

Just a thought that could have happened....what if BBG sold the packs as a front to make it appear someone else bought them when in reality a created alt bought them with other intentions?

I heard somewhere he also sold a resealing agent can anyone verify this?

Peter,

It appears as though you may disagree with my assessment. With all due respect, I ask the following:

Which part(s) of my post do you take exception to, and why?

I look forward to your reply.

Best Regards,

Eric

Huh? I was simply observing that your position that someone who facilitates a fraud is equally guilty as the fraudster is the baseball card equivalent of the Bush doctrine applied to terrorism. To wit: 1."Make no distinction between terrorists and the nations that harbor them--and hold both to account."

Do you not agree that those who knowingly help the fraudster are also guilty? I happen to think that they are.

On the Internet, I set my sarcasm meter to zero. If this is the cause of the friction I sense, then please accept my sincerest apologies.

Best Regards,

Eric

Yeah I definitely agree. For example, I think the auction houses who knowingly serve as the outlet for card doctors should be held equally accountable as the card doctors -- that is, if any of them ever are held accountable.

And, I imagine anytime a potential PSA 10 is ripped, a 4 minute Buffalo Bill "tuck" dance ensues...

Peter,

This board actually does have the power to hold individuals and corporations to account. My initial post was a thinly veiled call to action. In no way did I mean to take you to the mat, personally.

In summary, those who perpetrate fraud within our hobby are pathetic, shameless trolls.

And my posts within this thread are a direct assault on Pauley (BubbleBathGirl.)

Best Regards,

Eric

[QUOTE= a 4 minute Buffalo Bill "tuck" dance ensues...[/QUOTE]

For a minute or 2, I thought you were talking about Marv Levy's Bills. These CU threads are always difficult for me to follow.

Can't be said any better Eric, you hit the nail on the head. Thank you OP, you've identified another person I will avoid.

Eric I share your antipathy but in my view it is up to law enforcement to stop them, particularly the major card doctors and auctions and indifferent collectors that facilitate them who I am sure are literally laughing all the way to the bank.

There was a confirmed post on a 20k offer believe it or not but it could've been an alt for all I know.

Just to play the devils advocate, and in all fairness, gum can be collectible.http://blog.justcollect.com/baseball...eball-wrapper/

ok. so to sum up

bubblebathgirl is really a boy, but the picture was great.

the price is ridiculous and you demand answers to the duality slash two facedness of this person and his offereings which he is not responding to. this is where things started tumbling out of control?

the price is to high for a potential scammer because they are asking 25k, ultimately removing all profit from resealing the cards and trying to get tons of money from it with low cost to purchase the wrappers. higher costs mean less profits.

someone posted things that made someone else angry then they got banned because the "someone else" lost control of their own emotions....and the person who lost control of their emotions blames the fact that they lost control of their emotions and got banned on a person "pushing" them over the edge. this edge was caused by not getting answers to a question you feel he needs to answer? meaning...the duality of how he said something was over priced he was trying to buy it and how he jacked it up when he was trying to sell it? did i get that correct?

you don't see ANY pontential for collectibility in the wrapper and gum and subsequently want the person to permanantly mark and destroy the originality of the item so that they can serve some higher moral needs? these needs are not his, they are yours. some how this was agreed upon by everyone other than the person who owns the items and everyone is mad that he won't do it?


im find it hard to agree with the arguments here.

kevin

Scott, to me, this is reminiscent of the guy that was selling cracked PSA slabs + flips because PSA would not agree to buy them back, or give him a discount on future card grading. At first glance, it could seem innocuous enough, because as strange as it seems, there might be people that collect flips. I'd never believed this in a million years, but I recently found out that some people collect used auto redemption cards for modern issues like Bowman Chrome, Topps Tribute or Topps Museum (go figure). But there's no denying that in both instances, the seller is empowering unscrupulous people to sell fake cards, or resealed packs as fresh.

Just another reason why I'd like to keep a list of people that have exercised questionable judgement, or demonstrated shady behavior.

This whole thing is just exhausting. It seems everywhere you go, somebody's trying to rip you off. Sigh.

Dan, you mean, kinda like this....?

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/951/x9vn.png

Dan, I'm with you. :p

I cannot think of a one, Eric.

I guess I should start marking all my cards with sharpie so no one will try to use my cheap commons for something nefarious like rebacking.

Your summary is off...

You're drawing conclusions based on isolated incidents when the issue is not isolated. I provided only two examples because I think it would be enough to make my point. My posts are large enough so that's why I consolidated as best I could.

Mods are tough on CU and many that were banned didn't say anything out of line in the eyes of most. To boot, I would've been banned for this thread and do I seem "out of line" to you right now?

Regarding last paragraph, if you go to the link to the CU thread on page one, you would notice that he felt the same way about wrappers being sold on the market. To boot, he started the thread asking what do to with them...thus asking for our opinion. So they were, at the time, his needs as well...and continued to be until another member found his eBay auctions which is when the silent treatment and barrage of questions began.


Edited for spelling

When people's actions differ from their morals, they begin to rationalize both to protect themselves from a painful contradiction and to build up protection against accusations.

The bigger the dissonance, the larger the rationalization, and the longer it lasts, the less immoral it seems.

Post removed

EXPOSING Net54 member BUBBLEBATHGIRL
 

Another observation: the newer the board member, the longer, more complicated, and more frequent their posts.

Noted. I'll try and keep my posts less complicated for the simpletons...

That's the spirit. We simpletons appreciate it.

Dang it gum fell into the bubble bath now how am I going to reseal my box :eek: buying gum paying big bucks :rolleyes:

WARNING: Bubble Bath Photo
 

I did a search for some relevant photos but most of them would not pass the forum rules for posting. I hope this pic doesn't offend anyone and will satisfy the forum rules:

I have a piece of gum from 1971 OPC that I bought along with a wrapper sometime between 1978 and 83. I thought it was sort of cool that it had survived. Not as an unopened pack, but as a wrapper and gum. It's also really different than the Topps gum -Different size, and with lines scored across it so it could be broken into dentyne sized chunks.

Topps also had some different flavored gum in hockey cards in the mid 70's. I remember it from buying the packs and being surprised to see yellow gum. I think it was bananna flavored. If I found an opened pack that had it, I'd buy it just for the curiosity.

I don't really get the idea of marking the wrappers. Would it be acceptable to mark ANY other bit of memorabilia? Look in the Autograph section and see how little they like the stickers used by the authenticators. Or look at how disliked any form of grading/slabbing is by some here. And that doesn't even mark the cards. I have a small collection of wrappers, and I'd be looking for replacements for marked ones. Same goes for the empty display boxes.
A whole stack of old gum though.....Not sure I'd want that.

Steve B

By that logic every pharmacy in the country should be shut down.

Here in Mass there are arrests every year of people buying cold medecine legitimately but going over the state determined limit of 2 packages a month. Big family, cold lasts a couple weeks among 6 people. plus maybe buying a pack for a relative. All the pharmacies are linked now and call the police for an attempt to buy package 3 in a 30 day period. Somehow there's still plenty of supply for whoever is making the stuff.

Steve B

it's gum and bb cards, not meth
 

+1 to Steve B.'s comment. The analogy was bad from the beginning, and throwing hypothetical kids into the mix ("what if YOUR kid...?") was especially OTT.

Well said Baez!! Paul got me a nice 2 week vacation on the CU Board for pointing out that he sells empty wax packs with the original gum & questioning why anyone would pay $20K plus for the 79 case that he is trying to sell. Definitely not a fan.

I think the gum would display nicely.

Question is, do you use a one touch magnet, or a penny sleeve and a top loader? Or do you put the gum in a card saver?

Some 80 year old gum
 

It can display nicely actually. Here's some from 1933--looks mouthwatering, no?:

http://photos.imageevent.com/imoverh...unclejacks.jpg

You know, lots of this issue stems from....

I got slammed when I first went on the CU board. I know its not the biggest thing here at Net54, but at CU, high grade psa cards and vintage unopened are huge. I posted that people reasonably should collect what they can afford. I followed up by stating that because of the irrationally frenzied environment, people were buying up stuff they really can't afford. While there are big boys in the market, theres not really as many as would be necessesary to push prices to where they are at the moment.

And really theres evidence of that everywhere.....from guys not being able to pay for their group rip purchases to scammers...even some of the more "respected" members there.

This BBG issue is just another manifestation. Maybe its just me, but if I could afford to rip a box thats $1K plus....its a straight luxury purchase for me and I sure as heck better be able to afford that cost without resorting to having to sell off items that basically screw with everyone else. I don't have definitive knowledge of BBG's finances, but if $150 or whatever means that much to him, perhaps shredding open expensive packs in a search for PSA 10's is not the best use of his resources.

One more thing...if this posting hits to close to home for anyone else, perhaps inner reflection is a better idea that writing a scathing post in response. Judging by the responses to this opinion posted on CU, I'm expecting the scathing responses, but while harsh, I don't think I posted anything untrue.

i can see where the wrappers would be collectible, but not the gum, why include the gum in the auction?

Collectibility is in the eye of the collector. Dave:)