Question regarding top cards on cellos -1979
 

I have been trying to collect 1979 Topps cello packs with the players with the All-Star designation on top.

I another thread I read that in 1978, Munson was never released on the top of a cello pack.

That makes me wonder if this is true for 1979. Are there cards that would not have been released as the top card on a cello pack?

Thanks in advance for any insight you can provide.

In 1979 like in 1978 tops printed there cards in 6 different panels (sheets) the cards in each panel can be identified by the letters A,B,C,D,E,F, which
can be found in the back of each card next to the copyright symbol now the cello packs in 78 and 79 contain 2 sections separated by a piece of gum the top section should contain cards from panels D,E,F, only! and the bottom section should contain cards from panels A,B,C, only, in the case of Munson his card is from panel A so it should be in the bottom section only, all this is easy to verify,, if you go on EBAY and checked and analyze every cello sold and for sale you'll find that all those have only a card from panels D,E,F, showing you will never find a card from panels A,B,C, SHOWING ON TOP UNLESS IT IS A STAR
never a common

Jose, does D/E/F-on-Top and A/B/C-on-bottom apply to all years Topps produced cellos?

It only does apply to the years going forward,,1978 is the 1st year that topps
used the letters A,B,C,D,E,F, to ID there panels, prior to 1978 for example in 1976 and 77 they used double asterisk (**) single asterisk (*) and no asterisk
(also next to the copyright} in conjunction with the cards numbers to ID there panels and yes that plays
a roll in what comes in pack sections wether cellos and/or racks.

Thank you!

Thanks for the info.

I just went through my '79s to see which ones can't end up on the top of a cello. As it turns out, I have a 79 cello with Rice on top (an A) that is PSA graded. Very disappointing that they were unable to pick up on this.

I see there is only one 79 Rice pack graded (psa 7) oh well!!
can you post a scan of the back?

Disappointing, but could be worse - you could have Ozzie on the front of your '79 Cello.

Does D/E/F-on top and A/B/C-on bottom also apply to post-1978 Topps cellos of sports like football and hockey? Did this practice also continue into the 1990s for baseball?

The last year that topps made cellos with visible cards is 1989,
so no cellos didn't continue in the 1990s as for hockey in some selective years in the 1960s and 70s cellos and or racks were rarely produced, finally in football
topps sets were smaller than baseball and in 1978 and on they only have 4 panels per year A,B,C,D. no E and F.
HOWEVER Arthur don't just take my word for it, this guidelines should enable you to do the proper research for yourself until you are satisfied that it is the truth.

That makes sense about the football being smaller, thanks. Were there any discernible patterns for football cellos in the 1980s where certain cards could only be found on the top or on the bottom?

Have you ever seen legitimate discrepancies to the pattern in Topps baseball cellos? I noticed in the PSA pop report that there are a few 1975 cellos with either George Brett or Robin Yount on both the top and bottom of the cello (same card, not 1 Brett and 1 Yount).

I've read that it's possible for the pattern in rack packs to break sequence (ie. certain cards on top being found in a cell other than the one they "should" be in) but that, when they do, the abnomaly stays true throughout the entire cell (all cards in the cell are from the same sheet, which would be verifiable by checking the card visisble on the bottom of the cell).

Thanks

Yep that's mine. Here are the scans of the front and back.

http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/...b0369d7ad6.jpg

http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/...0ed898aad8.jpg

HERE IS A CLOSE-UP OF THE PICTURE YOU POSTED WITH CLEAR EVIDENCE
THAT THE PACK HAS BEEN OPENED AND RESEALED! LOOK AT THE WHITE
ON THE CLEAR FOLD AND YOU CAN SEE WHERE IT WAS ORIGINALLY,
HARD TO BELIEVE THAT A REAL EXPERT WOULD MISS SOMETHING SO BLATAN
BUT IT'S HAPPENED MANY TIMES.
http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...psd8e3f946.png

I have to admit with PSA standing behind it, I had a level of confidence in the authenticity of the unopened pack. I'll never feel that way about a PSA again.

Thanks a lot for all the info, pepis. I now have some information I've never had before about cellos 78 on.

If you're wondering if is still happening! check out this sub that just popped last week for a CU member (blue highlight)

http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...ps67c488db.png

I just looked at Ebay and right now there are 5 different 1978 cellos with Yaz on top, 2 of which are graded by PSA. There is also a 1978 with Murray on top graded by PSA.

Who is fabricating these fake packs?

I just looked, five 78 cellos with Yastrzemski on top, 4 listed by seller
(nomarhunter) who may be a victim, the 5th one is listed by already exposed
seller at the CU (stuauto) i gave the FBI compromising data on him last april., and if you check nomarhunter feedbacks one in march 20 came from stuauto for
a 78 cello with Yas on top.

if you would like more info on all this just send me a pm.

Another questionable graded star pack! Seaver never came in the top section!
so blatant,


http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...pse9dc9469.png

Hard to believe that anybody could possibly believe that that this star pack
would be LEGIT,, yet it fooled both GAI and PSA.

SO MUCH for the youngsters called experts!



http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...psfe70e04a.png

Jose - Is that Murray pack one of your home made specials? Can you estimate how many PSA graded packs that are in circulation are your creations?

Non of my so-called creations are in circulation there were done only so i can have prove of PSA's ineptitude in authenticating star cello packs, HOWEVER
you are right on one thing there is many bogus cello star packs PSA graded
in circulation, in fact YOU ARE the proud or maybe not so proud owner of some of them just look!!! you recently submitted these 2 Bench packs 1978 & 1979
and Bench NEVER came in the top section of either 1978 or 1979, those were put there by
a counterfeiter, so you were duped by who ever sold'm to you and PSA for authenticating them! Daniel you got the double whammy!!

http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...ps38562f23.png

Jose
 

What do you think of the legitimacy of this pack?

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps11464ba5.jpg

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps7638548e.jpg

Hello Patrick,
so far i've been talking about the easy way to detect a bogus star pack and
that is recognizing whether the star card belongs in the top section of the
pack or not, this pack presents a different challenge for me because the card
showing on top Molitor/Trammell does belong in the top section and the card
on back is from panel "C" so it also does belong in that section HOWEVER i do see red flags!! i'm posting 3 pictures to help you understand the first is a picture of how a legit pack really looks (concentrate in the white part) the other 2 pictures are isolated sections of the scan you posted, the 2nd pic
shows what it looks to me like an interior tear that only happens when the
pack is opened, the 3rd is an arrow like look in the white that shows that
section of the inside flap may have been moved, REMEMBER i'm judging
by what i see in the scan you provided,,if you take a magnifying glass and
examine it i'm pretty sure you'll see it LMK and i'll explain rhy that happens
in a follow-up.
http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...ps30243771.png


http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...ps48d1aed1.png

http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...ps9ed81236.png

The corners on the Molitor look rounded. Is that typical of 78 cellos?

I can't really see the internal tear in picture 2 but Picture 3 looks pretty darn conclusive of a reseal. It looks to be nearly impossible to reseal a late 70s cello without disturbing the white section.

Yup, in 70s cellos the bottom flap is were the white section (paint) normally is and that's the thinest side of the pack, and the clear top flap is normally the thickest side of the pack and that is because the piece of gum is almost always in that side, so when the heat roller or sealer was applied to the back side of the pack it sealed better or stronger on the thicker side and it got weaker as it went through and got to the thiner side,,,,that's why counterfeiters almost always open the bottom flap, the seal is weaker or easier to open than the upper flap, because the seal is so strong in that upper side it almost always rips or tears the cellophane and that ruins the pack, but disturbing the white paint is no big deal, they figure most young naive collectors won't pay attention to detail.


Arthur, those corners do look funky! you can figure out why, now.

Jose, just wondering if one of the area's you are focusing in on in scan three is the numbers 54 in the code. They look to be partially missing. I'm not real familiar with the cellos so just trying to test my eye for this type of fraud. Thanks for all the great information.

Pretty much Bill,
if you look closely the zero next to the 54 is missing a piece and a chunk of the white
is missing, and if you compare the entire white section with my first picture
i posted how clean the white part is makes it so obvious.

removed

Thanks
 

Thanks for all the information, guys. This is why I almost never buy "unopened" product. I trusted the LCS owner as he is very knowledgeable and has been a good guy to me, chances are he is unaware that this pack was resealed. Now I'm in the conundrum of what to do...I did not pay all that much for the pack, part of me thinks I should just rip it and lose a couple 20's and chalk it up as a lesson learned. The other part of me thinks I should let the LCS owner know what others think but I don't want him to ostracize me etc. as I too should have done the research to know that the pack was resealed, plus he might want to know how I know it is and if site internet sites, etc. he might think those people don't know what they are talking about, etc...

Patrick, I recommend at least talking to the seller about it. You learn quite a bit more about people when discussing unpleasant topics than you will when everything's sunshine & rainbows! Stay courteous and just see what the seller says. If he's a good guy he'll at least engage in a reasonable discussion about it. If he tells you to take a hike or gets enraged, you may have learned something about him more valuable than the cost of the cello. JMHO.

Here you go Daniel,
2 more home made graded packs that YOU ARE putting in circulation
when you have packs that aren't properly authenticated and you know it, the right thing to do is claim the psa guaranty!
not sell/pass them to innocent collectors as your'e doing.


http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...ps078efc4d.png

Here is another sample of a home-made star cello pack, looks like
in the last 6 months this questionable packs have been coming down in price!
if anybody want to know why is it homemade! SIMPLE Ozzie NEVER came
on the top section of regular 1979 cellos!


http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...ps9cadf058.png

The seller's user name ring a bell, although I can't place why.

"Toonces the driving cat, the cat that could drive a car... He drives around, all over the town. He's Toonces the driving cat":p

Is this one real?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/251374277924...84.m1438.l2649

I am very curious as well... Please let us know the possibility of having the Roger Staubach card on the top and bottom of a cello pack.

I don't see how it is possible to have a star card like that on the TOP and Bottom of a cello pack. How often did you look through packs as a kid and find the same star card on the top and bottom of a pack. I would be lucky to get one star card in 5 packs period...

Very good question! i see you would like my opinion over PSA/hart expertise
one authenticated it and the other graded it MINT! judging by your inquiry you
simply don't trust them right? can't blame you Jason specially when you have been a victim of there corruption yourself, see Jason the 1975 topps cello pack
with Kaline on top you sold recently at the CU is BOGUS let me repeat it,, the
1975 Kaline pack you sold at the CU is BOGUS! see Kaline NEVER came in the
top section! only the bottom section a real expert would know that, so besides
PSA/hart you got SCREWED by who ever sold it to you, and you screwed who
ever you sold it to, LIKE I SAID BEFORE THIS PACK CORRUPTION is out of hand!
(see the bottom of the picture)

http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...ps397e8f5f.png

Nice diversion but why don't you address the cello that I linked too?

You've demonstrated you know the sequencing for most if not all years, how about demonstrating your vast knowledge on this particular cello?

+1

I guess these filthy pack resealers get the best of us. Please enlighten us about the Staubach pack in question. I'm very curious.

I am curious too....

I am not speaking for Pepis here and I think the question raised is fair and deserves an answer.

But, I did want to mention that cards in cello packs from the early 70s do run in sequence. But, at any moment the sequence can break and another sequence starts. It is definitely possible for the same sequence to occur two times within the same pack. As an example, see this thread over in CU where a member opens up a 1970 Baseball Cello pack. He winds up with duplicates of a couple cards including the card on the bottom of the pack. This makes me believe that, however unlikely, the same card can conceivably show up on both the top and bottom of packs that were distributed in single series cellos like in 1972 football.

1970 Topps Baseball Cello Rip

BTW - 1970 cello packs purchased from Fritsch are rock solid legitimate. I don't believe that anyone has ever questioned this.

Ok, in 1972 topps produced their cards in 3 series, the basic set of only 264
cards series one cards 1/132 besides wax packs, they packaged that 1st series
in rack packs and clear cello 27 card packs, at the middle of this they decided
to test a new cello pack with much heavier paper than the clear packs this new
packs would now have a price a topps logo and product disclosure only one series so there was no rhyme or reason just random cards from a single series
fit it in a 27 card pack, this was repeated in 2nd series packs, both series were
never inserted in the same pack, and all the cards in the entire series could
and will show-up in either side, then the scarce 3rd series came out BUT only
in wax packs, all of these also happened in the following year 1973, it wasn't
until 1974 when the set grew and the number of cards in a cello packs shrank that
they (topps) developed a distinctive pattern.
in a final note i examine that pack closely and found it satisfactory,
and I know packs as well as anyone out there could possibly know, and welcome any legal challenges to disprove it.

Did you sell this pack on ebay and if so, is it a bad pack?


http://www.ebay.com/itm/1972-TOPPS-F...vip=true&rt=nc

I'm not taking up for Jose because I do not know him, have never conducted business with him and have no dog in this fight. However, I read a lot of accusations over here and on the CU boards.

Why can't someone post some solid proof of those accusations? I've recently called out scammers on the main page and I provide proof that links those I've accused directly to the scam (or whatever I've accused them of - e.g. shilling).

However, I have not seen any proof against Jose. If someone can link him to something, then you can change my mind, but it has to be proof positive, no he said / she said stuff.

Please don't PM me with your proof. If someone has proof, let them post it here for all to see.

No on both Leon,
the pack is good! and it got hit BIN by member David Gold who also created
an ALT at the CU after he got not only suspended but also erased from the
CU history his ALT is MrSnuffleupagus the same guy that sort of criticized you
on the CU yesterday his been buying some of my more expensive basketball
cards and not paying after blocking him he started using a different ebay ID
in here he is davidG1966 and i'm pretty sure he also has an ALT here.

Wait. You didn't sell that pack? Isn't that your ebay user ID?

So you aren't the ebay user in that auction, elsipep? David Gold is kind of out of control if you ask me....maybe one card shy of a deck.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...=162027&page=6

So we know he builds cello's with stars on top and admits those cello's got past PSA. Furthermore he has a history of selling cellos (Google starpaxman) with stars on top.

But I'm to believe that all the cello's he got past PSA are still in his possession and that all the cell's he's sold are good. Ya sure, that passes the sniff test.

You draw your own conclusions

The way I read it Leon is that Jose *is* the seller but the pack wasn't actually sold because the person who hit "Buy it now" was playing games and never paid.

Where is popcorn girl when we need her over here!

Matt,

Let me start by saying welcome to the boards. I did read that thread at the time and I understand Jose made some fake cello packs, but nowhere have I read that he sold any of them. If he did, I would definitely like to see proof and it would certainly change my mind.

Here is what I think about this whole situation. I believe that Jose did fabricate some packs and they were submitted to PSA for authentication and grading. Steve Hart authenticated the packs and now he looks like a fool, but people are trying to turn it around on Jose because they don't want Steve, whom they put on a pedestal, to look like he is incompetent. Well, the truth of the matter is, if he did authenticate nearly 200 bogus packs, THEN HE IS INCOPETENT! One or two or even a few could be considered a mistake, but over 200? Come on, that is incompetency. If a grader authenticated over 200 counterfeit cards, couldn't we call him incompetent as well? Sure we could. We would be calling for PSA (or whoever the TPG was) to get rid of the guy. Ok, so why does Steve Hart get a free pass? I'm sorry, but I believe people are making Jose out to be the bad guy to take the spotlight of the real problem which is Steve Hart and PSA.

Again, if anybody has any solid proof that Jose sold bogus packs, I would love to hear it and that would definitely change my mind.

David

Absolutely David.
what we got here is a BLATAN attempt of a cover-up by PSA the pack
corruption is so BIG there is nearly !000 star packs alone in the population
report, that can be identify as BOGUS simply by the mention of the player
on top, most counterfeiters on EBAY keep getting away with it because as you
said there authenticator is incompetent does not have the proper knowledge,
last year i offered to sit down with him an discuss it, and nothing in fact he
is now SELLING BOGUS PACKS IN HIS WEBSITE so needless to say it got worst!

I don't put Steve on a pedestal, don't even collect unopened. I don't for one second believe that Pepis started making fake packs for the greater good of the hobby.

I'm also not naive enough to think that PSA or any other TPG will catch every fake.

Here is what I do know for sure:

Pepis makes fake cello packs with stars on top
Pepis submits packs to PSA and they get slabbed
PSA is not great identifying fake cello's
Pepis sells cello's with stars on top

That's enough info for me to form an opinion, YMMV

Some sales from Jose
 

Jose
I sent you a PM earlier today about trying to learn more about 75-77 cello packs. The whole situation about fake cello packs out there is of interest to me because I have some cello packs bought over the years. Like most, I try to buy from reputable people/dealers. I'm far from an expert and do put some trust in people I think are honest and have strong reputations. Probably a mistake and this whole situation has caused me to be more skeptical in general with our hobby (not a bad thing - live and learn).

What I learned from your PM is that in 1975 only players with a double asterisk on the back of the card (**) can appear on the front of a cello pack. The same would hold true for cello packs in 1976 and 1977. I looked at all the 1975 packs that Fritsch has for sale and they all have top cards with the **, so that backs up what you said.

I have also read from you where you said you haven't sold any of the back packs you had authenticated by PSA.

I then did some research on packs sold by using VCP previous sales over the years. You have sold several packs over the past few years with stars on top. Some of them are ** but many of them are not. If what you said hold true all of the time (as you said it did), then can you explain these sales attributed to your ebay id. (edited). All of these packs have a single asterisk (*):

cert#19449158 (Willie Mays #203 on top) sold for $120.27 on 1/3/12
cert#18517511 (Thurman Munson #20 on top) sold for $229.72 on 12/13/11
cert#19414015 (Dave Winfield #61 on top) sold for $185.50 on 1/4/12
cert#18517503 (Robin Yount #223 on top) sold for $500 on 11/17/11
cert#18777946 (Mickey Mantle MVP #194 on top) sold for $147.50 on 8/17/11

There were a bunch of other sales for 1975 and 1977 packs that I didn't check so this is just a sample of those that I found that didn't meet the criteria you said.

In your PM you mentioned that you typically want to address these questions in public so that I why I posted here instead of back through PM.

Just to be transparent, I have a 1975 pack with Brooks Robinson on the top and that card has a single asterisk. The cert# is sandwiched between packs that you sold but I did not buy it from you directly.

Thanks
Jim

Absolutely Jim,
i was one of the top star pack dealers i bought and sold hundreds upon
hundreds over the last 10 years, when i started to open box after box is when i noticed that many of those stars that i had on top were only in the
bottom section! the more i opened the more it happened! that's when i started my research and came to finding out the truth! so i started to email
people and most treated my heads up like i was crazy, so i created proof
and still have it, and that is what i'm fighting, every single person that has
bought and sold star packs in the country went through bogus packs most
graded and that is my message exactly wide spread corruption! and as i provided you with SOLID truthful information is the only way i see to help
rid of the problem but i been facing strong opposition from the so-called
experts that don't want the truth to come out. AND AGAIN every pack i was involved in with tampering i still have
i put a note inside of some so there can be no dispute that what say about the corruption in grading is true.

This provides a good opportunity to update my list of things I know for sure:

Pepis makes fake cello packs with stars on top
Pepis submits packs to PSA and they get slabbed
PSA is not great identifying fake cello's
Pepis sells cello's with stars on top
Pepis "was one of the top star pack dealers...bought and sold hundreds"(NEW)

Good info Jim.

Looking forward to a response from pepis, I'm sure he can clear this up.

Jose - few more questions
 

Jose
I've been thinking about your response to my earlier post. I had a few more questions if you don't mind.

I went through VCP and looked at 75-79 recorded sales in grades PSA 7 - 10. I counted 62 sales from your ebay id since VCP has been recording sales. Only 26 of them meet your criteria for what card should be on top. That means that 36 of them would be tampered using your logic. I know you said you bought a lot of packs over the years, especially star packs but that seems like either bad luck or something else.

I also didn't see any common pack sales that I remember and you mentioned that you had opened multiple boxes so i would figure you would have had some common player sales. Maybe you didn't grade them?

I also saw that you were selling packs with the wrong card on front for multiple years with the last sale being a 79 Ozzie Smith pack in May 2012 and a 78 Thurman Munson in June 2012. There have been multiple threads on fake packs on Net54 from March and May of this year where you mentioned that you spoke to Steve last year and had been working on your FBI information "for a long time".

I'm having a hard time believing when you sold those packs as late as 6/12 that you didn't know they were bad. Did you know at the time you sold those packs that they were bad?

Also, you mentioned you still had all the packs you tampered with yourself. And said you were willing to share information if people asked. Can you provide the cert# for those packs you faked and still have?

Thanks, Jose. I appreciate it.

Jim

Friends
 

Jose-- looks like you have cultivated a whole new group of friends.

You're not asking questions you making statements about digging in my past
prior to my extensive research and findings about this very real problem
i have uncovered in the pack industry and hopefully help stop it or at list
slow it down!,,,when you contacted me on private message i provide you
with the information that opened your eyes, but it seems you're having some
difficulty in believing,, understandable!! so i'll post proof of some of the things
i talked about, but just some since i'm still hoping for my day in court!

when it became clear to me of how large the problem is
i posted some on the CU and got banned right away (see pic)
http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7e973a11.png

THEN I TRIED TO EXPOSE IT ON EBAY BY MAKING
SOME DARING LISTINGS, BUT PSA HAD THEIR LAWYERS
CONTACT EBAY TO STOP IT (see pic)
http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...ps107536b5.png

THEN S.HART EMAILED ME, WE EXCHANGED A FEW EMAILS
AND IN THIS ONE I MADE IT CLEAR (see pic)

http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...ps1e51a856.png

IN PACKS THAT I HAD MADE, I WROTE A NOTE INSIDE
IN ONE OF THE CARDS, DID IT A FEW TIMES IN DIFFERENT TEARS

http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...ps135ffd27.png



HERE WE HAVE A COUPLE OF ONE OK A KIND
OH THE SACRIFICE!!

http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...psececa9d9.jpg
http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...psfefadd55.jpg


THIS IS A VERY VERY REAL PROBLEM
THAT NEEDS TO BE TOLD FOR THE SAKE OF THE HOBBY!
MORE TOMORROW

Sorry if you feel like i'm digging into your 'past'. i'm just looking at some of the completed sales. Your screen shot of the 79 Munson pack is an example of what i'm getting at.

that cert# is 19361330. Checking the PSA cert validation tool and going backward a few numbers you can see what other packs were graded at the same time. Cert#19361327 is a 78 PSA 9 pack with Molitor/Trammell on top. Using your logic on what card should be on top, that card can be on top.

Whether it came from the factory that way and is untampered, I have no idea but at least according to your logic it can be on top. But they were graded at the same time. You sold that pack on 4/10/12 for $349.

So, you were creating those tampered packs (Munson pack) with no intention of selling them to see if they can get past PSA (your words). But, two months later (5/12 and 6/12) you were selling packs according to your own logic you knew were bad.

That was the point of my question above. Take away all the points about you helping the hobby and just answer....did you sell packs that you knew were tampered with? The timeline above suggests you did.

You may have points about what Steve/PSA did. The 'other side' may have points about your contribution to the problem. I'll probably never know enough to know 100% but it seems like you sold bad packs and knew it. For now, that's all i'm trying to figure out.

Regards
Jim

I'm sorry Jose, but you say you are an expert and you have been an expert for years (43 years I might add), but sales that took place 2-3 years ago don't count because you weren't aware of what was going on? Come on.

I haven't read this whole thread intricately so if it's been discussed my apology, but I received this question from a board member, for Jose.

Someone with the screen name: Josemv333 bought a 1972 Topps football Terry Bradshaw with a distinct stain on it off of eBay from seller NESC.
Pack got by Steve at PSA and pack was stabbed.
Pack was then sold by seller: Elsipep on 3/28/12 (as listed on VCP) with Bradshaw on top with that exact stain.


I thought you stated you NEVER sold a resealed pack? The buyer of the card was you, Josemv333, correct? The seller, Elsipep, is you also, correct?




.

What was edited out of this today and why? I think I may be smelling a rat....

Can this board member provide some clear scans of the Bradshaw as it was purchased raw (with stains) and also as it is resides in the authenticated cello pack? This would provide the proof we need to put this matter to rest once and for all.

No rat, it was the copy of one of the FBI emails, after thinking about it
i felt i might've been inappropriate to leave it with-out getting there permission.

I don't know the answer but I am sure I will find out one way or the other. I want to see the scan of the email with the FBI agent getting an email from Jose. That is what I think was edited out.

Deleted. Don't want to get involved.

Okay, since Jose is not answering and we still have "doubters" I am going to put this whole thing to rest.

Here is the 1972 Topps Terry Bradshaw card in question sold through NESC. Notice the two very distinct stains on the bottom two corners.

http://i966.photobucket.com/albums/a...psa7df2871.png

http://i966.photobucket.com/albums/a...psc168f424.png


Later a pack with a similar 1972 Bradshaw card showing was sold under the user name "elsipep" (Jose) on 3/28/12 (according to VCP). The man who purchased the pack later suspected it was resealed and subsequently sold the pack with a disclaimer (please read the item discription).

http://i966.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps96b3473a.png

Here is a close-up of that pack. Notice the same distinct stains on the bottom left and right corners, the same off centering and the same tilt? I will let everyone reach there own conclusions on this one.

http://i966.photobucket.com/albums/a...psd8c62523.png


Jose, I know you said that you never sold a pack that you resealed, so I am naturally having a difficult time understanding this whole thing. Could you please explain to us what is going on here? I'm sure there is a very logical explanation. I don't want anyone to jump to any conclusions before you get your say.

Hopefully we see a reply soon...

Also, I just noticed that the pack was recently sold in the most recent Memory Lane Auction: Link

All I will say is there is no way those are the same 2 cards. Yes they have a similar stain and centering but not the same card.
Edited to add I was wrong. To me the bottom left of the cards looked to have a different yellow offset compared to the black border line.

Yes That pack is on the list of packs a had made not only the stains,
in the back there is clear signs of being resealed on the white paint,
and it got by the expert, who ever owns it now should file for the PSA
guarantee! and i'll be glad to testify that I had it made.

Thank you, that is exactly what we all thought. I quoted you to prevent it from being changed.

Jason

It is the same card. I should have put in the disclaimer that the second scan (of the pack), was from a PWCC auction and the color/clarity may have been "enhanced".

No need to change it Jason when i started this venture my goal was to bring
this problem to the front! i have an incredible amount of data on the subject
from before i even submitted a pack for grading to PSA most members on the
the CU have purchased bad packs from each other, some of the sold them
when i alerted them via email, and some like you sold a bad pack without
knowing, one particular member has sold a very large amount and i have a
screen-shot of many of them! all i been trying to do is show how deep this corruption is when i started this i had no idea how BAD it really is i myself
have learned a lot the past 2 and half years, documented everything from
the beginning! and started with this note i wrote before i ever submitted
one single pack it all started when i noticed many questionable seals then
i learned the pattern problems.

http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...psf547a786.png

Jose,

I'm not understanding. You said that you never sold any pack that you fabricated. However, this clearly shows you did sell a fabricated pack.

Why did you sell this fabricated pack?

Why
 

"Dishonesty does not bother me, I just wonder why anyone believed me in the first place"....Jack Handey