Hunt Auction Pickups
 

I didn't win this, :eek: ... but --- $6,500+ after BP??? Really?

I know it's upside down, and on the front, but, when I returned home and went to see what it sold for, I had to bat my eyes a few times to make sure I read the number correctly.

http://www.huntauctions.com/phone/im...11&lot_num=437

Anyone pick something up they needed? I tend to despise Hunt Auctions for multiple reasons:

1. Organization
2. Awful scans
3. Poorly described/inaccurate conditions
4. Many times they do not provide back scans -- which is important for people collecting various backs...especially for T206s


.

Nate

I agree 100%. They could do a better job for their consignors.

When they had the Drum find it took 3 emails and a phone call to get back scans.

They get some really good consignments though.

The brown Lenox Lajoie
The Drums
The Red Suns in 2010
The consignment that had all the packs of cigarettes along with the cards.
The Cracker Jacks being talked about in a current thread and so on.

I am sure they are aware but it appears they are happy the way things are turning out. Not sure if anyone from Hunt reads the forum.

The t206 errors have come into their own over the past year or so. REA and Hunt are proof of that.

I am sure Johnny's collection has more than doubled in value in the past 6 months...:cool::eek:

I'd rather be brainless
 

No one with a Brain would spend this much for one crummy card.

Brian

Ain't that the truth!

Johnny: time to sell? :D :rolleyes:

.

I don't understand that end price. It doesn't compute.

I was the underbidder and it was a deal at the final price. It has quite the secret.

I think the price had more to do with the back. Someone got a really great card, congrats!

http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/...ps64400a8a.jpg

I guess I just outed the secret.:)

well.....
 

If I had 10 k to dump, it would've been on that card:), card sold for an absolute bargain imho!!! winner is extremely lucky....


ship immediately to sgc....(the one tpg that deserves to slab this card, no offense other graders, they are the ones to deserve to slab, as overprint piedmont front/multi strike piedy back....i'm sure will get similar designation...card is a big card and winner is extremely lucky....I am sorry Chris:(......my heart sank for you....:(

these types of scrap are like finding a diamond in sand.....the hunt is half the fun, but the disappointment can be painful at times:o...


whoed have thunk it???:confused: 100 + year old chase cards....HA HA! I love these cards ...


put that card in Goodwin and i'm sure it would hit 10+ k easy...easy...right now




.......Nate, thanks man!!! my cards are worth more than cash to me right now, but a wagner may persuade me;)....you have become a true force in dealing T206...(.I love the flag btw:))






Brian and the haters....you will see, these are like small pieces of art, true alternative T206,


one man's trash is another man's treasure, one man gathers what another man spills....:D...

THESE CARDS have only started , and will not stop...so might as well accept and move on....and, send me your email, I will take any off your hands;)

Jim...

your insight on this set and the market , is truly ahead of our time, and your understanding of these rarities is beyond many collectors scope ;)


Congrats to the winner of the Brain card....may I have on weekends:p

and all other winners....

Wowsers! I saw that there was a WST on the front... But never would have guessed that was on the back. Honestly how can the AH not mention that in the listing or show back scans. At least the ghost that I picked up in a lot a while back was listed as a 'print anomaly.'

Crappy Scan and Crappy Description......

I consigned to hunt in the past
 

And I never would again. For some of the above mentioned reasons. I personally believe they cater to their buyer friends more than their consignors. At least that was my experience. Not mentioning a back like that in this market is truly pathetic.

COOL card.:eek:

I guess I have to start analyzing Hunt's crappy website, instead of their equally crappy Auction Catalogs.

I have never consigned a card, but after reading the description and not seeing an image of that back, I would be furious if I had consigned this card. How does a card like that sneak through? I feel sorry for the card's previous owner, who just lost out on a healthy chunk of change.

Agreed. A lot of people state these nutty scrap prices are bargains, but apparently only a few people are willing to pay for them. Who are these people? :confused:

My take is that the consigner didn't know the significance of the card and probably never will.

In the last few years I've seen a few enthusiastic collectors not only buying these, but constantly hyping them in this forum. Most of the time, when one of these goes for an astronomical price, it ends up in the pick-up thread, or underbid with the usual suspects discussing what a deal it was :) (Hi Chris!)

In my opinion, these guys are a good percentage of the people willing to pay the price they are going for these days, and if those guys stopped buying, the price goes back to where it was a few years ago... 1500-2000

I'm sure this how the price of anything in the hobby rises, the difference being the amount of transparency in this case.

Steve- when he gets his consignor check he'll realize it. ;)

Good point Michael.

The reason this is a deal to me, not necessarily for investment or future resale, but simply just to own it.

One that goes into the permanent collection.

It's scrap from the start of printing that back. It has 3-5 regular overprints and one upside down 4 corner back. Plus the kicker, for me, an upside down four corner OP on the front. A true gem.

It's a "financial" deal considering the recent sales of similar type scraps....but not a bargain considering how it was listed.

$7500 was the next bid with BP and that was over my limit. This one hurt more then any other I've missed. :(

I ditto what MAtt said!!!!

America baby !!
 

The freedom to express ones opinion. God Bless America !!

So did anyone here win anything else ??

How does hyping cards as a "deal" we are the underbidder on help us? We are our own enemies by bidding against each other and continually raising these prices.

There are less and less of these out there and feeding our collecting need is getting tougher...so you save up, sell some other hot items and try your best.

We simply love these like everyone else who is a collector and some of us are passionate about sharing why we pick these up....a bit defensive maybe, part of the passion I think...I don't see a hidden agenda from the few of us on here to pump and dump our favorite items.

In this day and age...with price guides being outdated and archaic...the way prices of cards in general increase is by them getting bid up...and for this to happen there must be 2 bidders! The dynamic of pricing is sooooo different today than it was back in the day.

IT's harder than ever to really place a fixed price on a card.

Agreed. I like it better this way because you have to determine in your own mind what something is worth. You can use comparisons from auction sales, etc. but really it's left to what it's worth to you. I love it. You either want it for that price or you don't. To me it's somewhat freeing. And people can stop looking to a book for their answers.

To show how much it has changed, we were at a card show a couple weeks ago and Patrick had some cards that he had gotten long ago that were still in the old toploaders. the sticker had 2 prices and was divided in half. It was printed "Book Price" and under that "Our Price". How the times have changed.

Well said
 

Well said, Chris. Supply and demand. Basic rules of business.

I think you are correct on this one Steve.

The consignor most likely did not realize what they had because I am sure they looked at the lot once it was up for bidding. They are probably extremely happy with the price not realizing todays error market.

Still enough collectors saw this lot or the hammer would not have been 6k. Still could have brought more with large front and back scans.

Really, better scans and you would have bid more?

Still hearing how the price realized was right (or low), but I only know one board member who pays these prices for scraps, and he doesn't always do it. While I'm certain that hyping these as good deals is not part of any hidden agenda, I do believe that whoever the 2-3 people are who actually are putting their money behind such claims, are unintentionally getting others on the board to begin 'believing' that these are the new market prices. Apparently they are only the new market prices for a few people. Thousands for this stuff? C'mon.

Agree
 

I would agree with Jim. The mainline collectors going after set, sure these are not in your wheelhouse. To Johnny's point, a lot of T206 collectors want to broaden their collecting to the scrap and oddball items and of course the rare backs. With a proper back scan and a proper front scan, the card could easily of sold for much more. 2 anomalies on one card, seen together rarely ( I say that because I don't know if their have been more but don't want to be pointed out as a bs'er). Brain is also a fairly popular single as well. Very cool card !!

So YOU are the board member bidding in the thousands for these?

Other than Chris and the person I alluded to earlier, I'm still not seeing the demand reflected by these prices. My guess is that if these two bidders alone lost interest, the market for such items could begin looking quite different. Others here are marveling at the prices and agreeing with them, but not bidding. Would love to hear from others in this pool of bidders that has established the 'new market value'.

When I first saw the card, the fact that it was upside down made me wonder what was on the back, and if there were multiple strikes like I've seen on others. I simply assumed that no auction house would fail to mention something like that, and remembered recently that they at least wrote "Printing anomaly" for a ghost image, which was referenced by Erick. There is literally no excuse other than complete ineptitude for not mentioning this. If you become interested in T206s, even if you're are just being introduced to the hobby, you know within about 3 weeks that T206s with errors such as that are worth thousands of dollars. So, I surmise that a back scan was provided once asked for, or buyers close to the area personally viewed the cards.

Great for the buyer, and a sizeable difference of potential income for the consignor. I wouldn't consign a single thing to Hunt Auctions, even if I got the BP as well.


On another note, WHAT A CARD! :eek:

I have never discussed consignments with Hunt, but the fact that they don't give lots the best exposure is no secret. So I doubt that any consignor is surprised by what they get. My guess is that the benefit of consigning with Hunt is that you send them a pile of stuff and they put it up in a single lot, and you are rid of it - not all auction houses will do this. I've seen some very 'messy' lots in Hunt (and won some of them) - they almost end up being surprise 'grab-bag' lots in some cases.

This is an interesting card, no doubt. But my rule of thumb on these printing "errors" is that if it happened in another set -- say 1930s Goudey or 1950s Topps -- would anyone care?

If the answer is "no", then why does the fact that it happened in T206 matter?

I'll just keep shaking my head as people pursue these, and "nodgrass" and "Murr'y" with more vigor than a true factory error like Magie.

Obviously, collect what interests you, but I just don't understand how the interest here rises beyond a nominal premium.

Stand by my remarks
 

Small supply with some high dollar demand. I don't get why someone buys a Tesla or a 7 series BMW instead of a Camry or an Accord...same principle I guess in the long run. It's all about what you like. Brown Lenox, Brown Old Mill, Overstrike back... Makes sense to me.

Me neither :D

Bring about $10,000 to the National and I'll give you a great deal on two T206 error cards.

This sold at Goodwin for 7600.

http://www.goodwinandco.com/LotDetai...entoryid=22901

I think the one sold at Hunts is much nicer and should have a higher premium attached.

No offense Wonka.:)

"Obviously, collect what interests you, but I just don't understand how the interest here rises beyond a nominal premium."

I feel the same way. Beyond bragging rights on Net 54, I see no intrinsic value to these anomalies, and doubt (but what do I know) they will retain their extreme valuations over time.

But do two people feel that way? Is the winner from the Goodwin auction still in the market for these or do they have their type? Is the underbidder still interested? It is easy for all of us to talk about the worth of these or Baltimore Ruths or Picassos, but how many out there are really going to bid that card above $7600?

lolol

To me, it seems T-206 white borders are the most collected of pre-war cards. If the Wagner, Plank, Doyle, & Magie are out of your range, the one-of-a-kind "rarities" are the next best thing. They're not for me, but I can understand the wild prices & I'm not surprised by them.

I think there are more people after these freaks than just a handful. Look at all of the T206 collectors who are going after back runs for specific players. For all we know, they want to add a freak to their back run also. There are a lot of T206 collectors who a lot of dough burning through their pockets, as we can see from sales of rare back commons.

Some of the freaks in T206 like the one that just sold in Hunt, I've never seen outside of low quality 1920s strip cards and the T206 set. Has anyone ever seen a 1933 Goudey like this with multiple stamps like that? I think that's one of the things that makes the price go up. There are a small, but decent supply of these so multiple collectors think that it's possible for them to own one. If there were just one known, people would probably just write it off. However, because there is a small supply, it's possible to put this on your checklist.

Frankly, I think that these are pretty cool looking also. I'd like to own one also, but probably wouldn't pay more than 1-2K for one. I'm sure there are other collectors like me, but that sets a floor for the prices for these cards, where the really enthusiastic collectors can drive them to sky high levels.

The card was neat no doubt.

Perhaps Hunt should spend more time putting up a website and images vs. worrying about strong arming dealers to not display at other local card shows.:rolleyes:

These are cool and I pick them up when I can if the price I feel is fair. I don’t feel these are "blue chip" by any means and more a very neat but thinly traded novelty item. They do give a really cool insight into the production and printing process of the cards we love and that makes them special.

For me I would say I don’t think it went super cheap. In fact had I seen this card I could see myself bidding so perhaps some money was left on the table? But who knows. However no amazing deal was had but that’s just my 2 cents.

I also think it’s just a matter of time before we see this card again for sale, so a second chance will be had.

Cheers,

John

+1. No offense to the winning bidder but, really??? Some guy at the factory reports to work drunk one day and ruins a sheet of cards by running them back and forth in the press and 100 years later it goes for $6500?
Oh well, to each his own....

I've heard that these sheets were perhaps used to calibrate the press, so the printer used it again and again to do so. When the back was too covered he flipped it over and used the other side. Then someone rescued them for the printer's floor, and over 100 years later here they are.

If this is in fact the case, these cards are extremely unique to the set, and a huge part of the sets history. JMO

Being relatively new to AH bidding, the one aspect that sucks is the large bid increment you are forced to make once an item gets up in price.

Factoring in the BP makes it even more costly to place that one higher bid. I realize this is the way the game is played, but it would be easier to stay within budget and still win some cards if the bid increments were smaller (eg. $100 increments up to $10K). Maybe I'm in the minority with this thinking. :confused:

At the same time, you are less likely to get outbid if you lock up a strong bid level.

T206Collector- your philosophy doesn't hold water at all, IMO. you can't compare T206 to other sets. same question back at ya, can you compare signed T206's to signed 1950's Topps? no way. T206 is a special animal...you should know this.

I would pay $45 for that card.

Peter, this is so true. Just learned it first hand. I had one bid left to make last night and it wound up occupying a critical slot. I think that in large part helped me out.

I could be wrong, but it seems like most of the 206 freaks that come up for auction, end up in the pick-up thread. All rare cards have a thin market. What's interesting to me is that most of the market for these freaks seem to be board members that aren't particularly private with what they are buying. They all seem to be friends, and I'm sure they bid each other up! The freaks are an interesting anomaly, and the group of collectors after them are interesting too!

I don't personally see it, but maybe these printing error cards are just beginning to reach their potential (in terms of dollar value).

Such "freaks" are even more coveted in stamp and coin collecting, with a far greater premium paid for most examples. Here's one of the more famous ones...

http://scoop.diamondgalleries.com/Ho...rticleID=50832


Perhaps Baseball Error Cards are finally starting build some steam and catch up? I believe that these anomalies will become more valuable/desirable with each year that passes (and may not always be so thinly traded).

Good point.

I guess it's just part of the evolution of the hobby?! I mean why are collectibles...collectible? Because most were discarded...played with...used and abused?! These freaks and miscues should have been thrown away...but weren't...so while this stuff was viewed in the past as the garbage it was intended to be...it survived...so now it is very collectible.

Def not my cup of tea...but it is what it is!!!

If you have a 1953 Topps signed Satchel Paige or Jackie Robinson, I'd be happy to trade you a signed T206 for it.

Autographs are not everyone's cup of tea, but their interest level goes beyond signed T206 cards.

Printing anomolies in baseball cards spike wicked high on T206 -- why not other sets?

The word is "sexy". plain and simple, T206 cards are sexier than any other set. you can't deny this, as you are a T206 "nut" yourself...you know what i mean. can't fully explain it, but the set has mucho sex appeal.

Here's one way to look at it... you personally have offered $2500+ for any signed T206 not in your collection. Hypothetically, you'd pay over $2500 for a signed Harry Pattee card (likely much more), but if Mr. Pattee had signed a rare program or a vintage ticket, you would never pay that much for his signature. Part of it, as already mentioned, is the mystique of T206, and the crazy people that collect her. :)

If I couldn't resell it, I wouldn't. :D:D I think the value is principally social, largely driven by this forum and people talking each other up. Just my .02

I can follow y'all to a degree, of course. But I'd pay well over $1,000 for a signed E92 or E95 of anyone. Heck, I love my signed T201 collection.

It's parallel, but not the same thing.

Errors & pre-production ( scraps, tests, prototypes ) generally carry a hefty premium in most mass-produced collectible fields - stamps, coins, records, toys, books, etc. Why not cards?

Errors, tests and prototypes (proofs) have long carried a premium. I thinks it's a natural evolution that scraps would follow.

Well....
 

I got halfway through this thread and couldn't read anymore....


I will put my reputation on the line here...

A card of such magnitude would bring 15 K plus in REA with more than 12 bidders at least....maybe 20 bidders...

I could care less what Scott, Peter, or any other hater would say....


Scott, your just pissed off you dumped them years ago for a song:eek:.....hurts, but pull up the the big boy pants and move on....

:)


Peace

JOHN VANDERBECK

Johhny, no need to get riled. Some of us value scraps and errors, some don't. If everyone wanted them I couldn't afford them. :D

Sean....
 

It BOTHERS me to no end.....

I have to read constant Griping about the of ignorant board members putting down cards they HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE ABOUT....:mad:

uhhhh....is this a wst????:D is this a bleed through???uhhhh...i'll give you $40 for it:p

DUH!!!

I'll take all of them for $45.00 each:D

SO I AGREE

SEND ME YOUR SCRAP!!!THEY ARE NO GOOD......THEY ARE WORTH ONLY PENNIES:p

email me and we can work something out:D.....



These test scraps don't deserve to be in any ignorant collectors possession


JOHN VANDERBECK







JOHN VANDERBECK



:mad:

:D:D:eek::D:D

I don't doubt your analysis at all.... what would this card have brought in REA 4 years ago? All I'm saying is that it seems the more recent bidding pool has driven it to that level, and it's not a ton of guys, it's a few here...

Matthew...
 

in all due respect, you have no clue about the market for these cards....

I have been getting blown up by collectors who didn't see the card, and they i'm sure would have gone balls to the wall, this card would have gone triple possibly.....find another one HA

YOU CAN"T

....and the "thin" market is quite "thickening" by the hour....I almost wish it wasn't occurring....these cards are well outta my reach now....I cannot afford the cards I love, yes it increases the value of my collection, but at this point I really don't care!!

I don't want to sell them(unless wags is around:D)



Jamie, I haven't heard from you......

I know that card would have went nuts if you joined!!!:)

Slightly OT...you guys watching these T206 Drums in Legendary?

Yep, good times.

I got my one freak T206 and that is all I really wanted to pay up for.

As for Goudey, there are probably a few around...

What did you pick up, Matt?

If anyone is in need of a nice graded Drum for 10k let me know...Ill even throw in a blank back of the same player. :D

Johnny...we know what's up :D

Error/proof/scrap collectors look at the set different and likely most wont get what we find so special that we will spend thousands to get the ALC junk....I respect that, to each there own. I have never had heart palpitations over a PSA 8...of anything or any other type.....but when I saw that back pic my heart was pounding.....I was nervous for days leading up to the closing. I watched it close as the underbidder and am still a bit upset. All part of the fun of the hunt.

We all likely have cards that do this to us, I sure hope everyone does and we should all respect that....thats the beauty of this hobby....so many types and ways to collect and equally so many different kinds of people...all connected by old cardboard. We are all a little crazy in our own little way.

Chris- don't sell yourself short...it's $12K w/ juice ;)

Johnny, I believe you, since you are the expert. I'm speaking from the outside looking in. I have been around long enough to see the price explode... It happened pretty recently. The price boom happened just as a few new collectors stepped in. I'm sure a few more have stepped in since.

The market takes a specialized eye so I ask you, Why is that card worth 3x more then this one:

http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/...x?itemid=21804

You've seen a lot of scrap, and that's great, but you also toss about huge numbers when discussing them. Since this is a discussion board, I'm discussing my thoughts about those numbers, and quite frankly - they are ridiculous. As far as 'big boy pants', you can take care of your own nether regions, and I'll take care of mine. Diapers, lederhosen - whatever turns you on - I won't say a word.

Matthew....
 

I really don't mean to get so upset when I have to read "scrap" bashing....

and the market for them....

Scott is a true hobby veteran, and knows better....I am disappointed how off he really is and why??:confused:


The Mc Graw scrap went SUPER cheap.....

I know who consigned it to REA, and the person expected at least 10 K for it, but it fell real short.....collectors have not even realized the significance of these types of "errors" , in the case of the McGraw, the "test" run of the sheet...actually, multiple sheets.....on the back of this scrap ......there are approx. 15 of these type floating around....an obvious sheet where as the printer was setting up the print runs/ filling ink wells/ aligning sheets/ ect...

printer grabbed the McGraw sheet, but only used the back.....these type, like the McGraw has the player runs horizontal on the sheets offset enough to "piece" together partial sheets....that's why these particular type of scrap are so interesting.....they are essentially "missing puzzle pieces" to the insight of the history/ print design of the sheets ....the clues are lost in time....the McGraw is part of that approx. 10 or so of this "missing " puzzle...Jamie owns 2, Dan owns one, Hank another, ect ect....I AM JEALOUS OF THESE because about 8 years ago, I lost 2 examples on ebay for $400.00 each.....another sickening loss of mine over the years.....anyway, McGraw ACTUALLY WENT FOR LESS THAN HALF OF WHAT IT SHOULD HAVE......


If you are following any kinds of T206 trends, thesere appreciating exponentially(RARE BACKs, WAGS, PLANK, RARITIES, ECT)...so essentially the same rates of growth apply to the anomalies....


as the collector interest in these particular rarities increase/so does demand/ supply is EXTREMELY short....like stated before, simple economics....there are like I said less that prob 15 like the McGraw.....


take for, example, upside down back(factory cut, not scrap).....much RARER THAN BL 460......'

YES


RARER than BL 460....they will catch up in pricing and exceed inmho as the advanced collector will yearn for SOMETHING different.....




phew...

the reason the McGraw went so cheap, there are a few of these seen over the years but the bidding for that card was Extremely weak......

BRAIN

printer used BOTH SIDES OF THE SCRAP SHEET(most scrap only have the overprints on one side if they are found) to set up the presses.....obviously multiple times both front and backwards and prob twenty or so different set ups for the piedy designated backs.....


after the sheet was abused by the printer, it was tossed aside showing all the battle scars.....inadventanly, the printer actually had created an "alternative" T206 sheet, which miraculously was salvaged either by a garbage picker, or someone at home when the sheet traveled home....


the sheet had survived much brutality to yield a virtually unique T206....unless ther are other survivors off the sheet, the brain is the only survivor from that pyschadelic sheet....



a diamond being produced out of a piece of coal might be a good analogy...


these are truly the future of T206 collecting inmho....


future looks bright

Thanks for the explanation, Johnny... So It's unique. It's the only example from it's sheet.

Did anyone get back scans of the rest of the cards? I see a couple in the bottom row that look like they might be hand cut.

Scott....
 

You were on your way to actually writing the book on these cards....I always, and still do, respect your opinion.....but over the years, you have basically "turned" on these types of cards....I can not figure out why/how:confused: since evening owning SOME HUGE CARDS such as the Downey overprint(iv been trying to pry that out of the current owners hands for a few years now).....The Dorner Multi Strike back, and countless other "Huge" scrap/ print anamolies....you know how rare some of these examples are, and the only way I can figure out the animosity toward them is the fact you sold yourself short on them and are having seller's remorse:confused: like in the case of you selling the bl 460's....it's no different, but you don't admit it, why?????????? that's why I said to pull up the big boy pants cause I can't take the scrap bashing from a hobby veteran....


I know Peter hates T206 altogether, so I let that alone:)

but you, I am quite confused that you are still down playing these after all these years???

I know these are all opinions, but if anyone knows about their rarity, it is you...

Johnny, it is all very confusing. Luckily, this is just a discussion forum where cardboard collectors toss their opinions around, so no one should lose too much sleep over any of it. My opinion is certainly just that - you could always prove me wrong by getting into a bidding war with one of the 'big boy pants' guys, and turning those numbers of yours into facts.

Matthew....
 

any time!! I will gladly try my best to explain why/how these were created and the particular rarity levels....which should directly reflect an approx. market value.....

YES!!!

BRAIN is a ONE of A kind T206(unless another Brain or player arises from that particular sheet salvaged from the garbage/print floor over a hundred years ago is amazing in itself:eek:....even is another does come to light, chances are the over prints will be different creating what I have termed "snowflake " scrap....meaning, each scrap is unique unto itself, even originating from the same sheet, they are cut/ struck / offset differently from card to card.....

creating even similar scrap to be unique:cool:

Scott....
 

I must appoligize for getting so defensive and sensitive about the scrap.....they are truly "misfits" and are mis understood....their rarity is shadowed by factory issued pre planned cards....these scraps are the abstract art anomalies created accidentally as you know and can be SUPER CONFUSING.....but you are one that can help advance the knowledge of them....

I have not been bidding on any because they are very sadly outta reach and it really is killing me.:o I would have loved to own/ or even bid on the Brain card.....I am very happy for the new owner....and am sorry Chris didn't get it....It took me years to find my Chance CYCLE front no name piedy back overprint....I LOVE THAT CARD....

sorry for my rants tonite!!

PLEASE GET BACK TO US SCOTT:)